627 Bangkok Communities Under Water

[Scott]

A good explanation of why the reluctance to an emergency decree can be found in this post:

The post was made by geriatrickid.

[BigBikeBKK]

A good explanation of why the reluctance to an emergency decree can be found in this post:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4766518

The post was made by geriatrickid.

It's not an explanation, it's a supposition. And here's my response:

Considering the clear incompetence of the present government can you blame the military for their aversion to following the direction of clueless Ministers like Plodprasob Surassawadee?

[serenitynow]

A good explanation of why the reluctance to an emergency decree can be found in this post:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4766518

The post was made by geriatrickid.

I don't find it a good explanation at all. In fact I'd say it's nonsense. I note Yingluck finds the military the proper tool for conveying her incompetent ass around the flooded zones. She just doesn't want to extend that same privilege to others.

[Scott]

And that was my sole attempt to keep the thread from running completely off-topic.

[Yuanis]

50cm or 1m flooded....not much difference in damage. 1 day in water or a week in water...that does matter.

[Babcock]

A good explanation of why the reluctance to an emergency decree can be found in this post:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4766518

The post was made by geriatrickid.

Prayuth cannot be trusted.

This is a national emergency and everyone has to pull together. It seems to me that the reasoning here is that Prayuth, a loose cannon if ever there was one, doesn't like taking orders and is insubordinate.

There may be ulterior motives at play here as well to undermine confidence in the government ie gamesmanship in an national emergency!

[gregchambers]

Over the years that I was in Thailand, numerous times when upcountry I heard of rich Bangkok people buying land upcountry that was way above sea level... the city is below sea level with most of the original canals that allowed the water to flow away filled in, it is inevitable that the place will eventually implode and turn to dust - all those skyscrapers are built on poor quality soil that is continually inundated by water and they will fall down one by one. Fantastic energetic city but built on ether, may survive this flood and the next but eventually the whole infrastructure will go bang.

[OzMick]

So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

Now why would you think that they would be on the same page??? That's ridiculous: PT is in charge, but the Dem. governor wants his party to gain face so he sits on the fence uncommitted, and (of course) the military want to be in charge again with their puppet PM...

You think the army might seize her strings?

[draftvader]

Just to keep it in perspective. We live right on the river and our flood wall is working fine. This morning's high tide came to 40cm from the top of the flood wall. All good then? er....no. Our neighbouring soi (hi-so condo block, we live in a lo-so swamp) has no flood wall as they are a "Marina" (they have 1 boat and a jet-ski) and therefore they don't have a flood wall. This is this morning (our soi's water was being pumped out and was around 1.5m below our neighbouring soi).

We'll see what happens when the flood water arrives properly then.

[Tanaka]

Perhaps, the military does not like taking direction from the civilians at the MOI.

Considering the clear incompetence of the present government can you blame the military for their aversion to following the direction of clueless Ministers like Plodprasob Surassawadee?

Yep... Plodprasob is a fraking idiot, where did they find him

Could it have been wandering around somewhere in the forest?

I believe it was in a kitchen in Chiang Mai. Which of course makes him well trained and qualified to be a Science and Technologic Minister.

[OzMick]

A good explanation of why the reluctance to an emergency decree can be found in this post:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4766518

The post was made by geriatrickid.

I have seen quite a few pictures of RTA working their butt off trying to help with not a gun in sight, and why would there be. GK shows his usual bias with his "keep the murderous bastards under control" rhetoric, but if barriers need defending who will do it better?

BTW if PTP really wants to bring in a B300/day minimum wage, where would it be easier and more deserved than conscript soldiers?

[Babcock]

Over the years that I was in Thailand, numerous times when upcountry I heard of rich Bangkok people buying land upcountry that was way above sea level... the city is below sea level with most of the original canals that allowed the water to flow away filled in, it is inevitable that the place will eventually implode and turn to dust - all those skyscrapers are built on poor quality soil that is continually inundated by water and they will fall down one by one. Fantastic energetic city but built on ether, may survive this flood and the next but eventually the whole infrastructure will go bang.

Well I think they will muddle along. I remember being told how in Egypt the builders used Nile water to mix up the concrete, full of impurities, whilst building the Hilton and other skyscrapers and that as a consequence they were listing but they're still there.

Maybe in 15 years we'll be underwater here. Daimler will have to start producing motor launches.

[sirchai]

Is there any link to actually watch video of the flood areas in Bankok proper anywhere

Why not using 10,000 submarines to push the water away?

[BrianCR]

In similar flooding situations I have witnessed in the US, it is not unusual, it is in fact common for the government to call up National Guard forces to aid in construction, rescue, evacuation, sheltering efforts. Only the military has the cross regional organization, equipment, manpower and bases of operation to offer any really coordinated assistance to those millions affected by these floods.

edit: Also I love that first photo, showing the spirit of Thai people to face their challenges, often with no government assistance whatsoever.

Reminds me a lot of Government assistance given to New Orleans (Op's wrong Government!)

[BrianCR]

Over the years that I was in Thailand, numerous times when upcountry I heard of rich Bangkok people buying land upcountry that was way above sea level... the city is below sea level with most of the original canals that allowed the water to flow away filled in, it is inevitable that the place will eventually implode and turn to dust - all those skyscrapers are built on poor quality soil that is continually inundated by water and they will fall down one by one. Fantastic energetic city but built on ether, may survive this flood and the next but eventually the whole infrastructure will go bang.

Over the years I have lived here (30 to be exact) I have never heard of rich people buying land upcountry - they usually just help themselves to forestry reserve land and build what they want (that way they can save their money to invest on the Stock Exchange (SET) and get involved in insider trading

[wana]

The declaration of a state of emergency doesn't magically give the military more resources.What it does do is suspend due process and whatever civil rights that happen to exist.Basically it means the army gets to round up and/or shoot whomever they want, and to take and use private property and equipment as and when they see fit.

so basically the army can behave like the BKK police do everyday in a state of emergency

[BuckarooBanzai]

And that was my sole attempt to keep the thread from running completely off-topic.

TV is being hijacked by political extremists. Is there nothing that can be done to cut down the constant repetitive slander generated by those members who are so blinded by the colors of red and yellow that they cannot carry on a sensible discussion. These posts rarely include any factual information to add to an intelligent discussion and really diminish the content of the thread for the rest of us.

Edited October 15, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[TAWP]

Better to flood an large area with 50cm of water than a much smaller area with 1 meter of water?

Just my thoughts

jb1

It isn't. Start to list when crops and household items etc are being affected (what height in cm of water) on the ground and in the house - and you'll understand why.

[verywierd]

The declaration of a state of emergency doesn't magically give the military more resources.What it does do is suspend due process and whatever civil rights that happen to exist.Basically it means the army gets to round up and/or shoot whomever they want, and to take and use private property and equipment as and when they see fit.

so basically the army can behave like the BKK police do everyday  in a state of emergency

Wholesale to the police's retail.

[serenitynow]

The declaration of a state of emergency doesn't magically give the military more resources.What it does do is suspend due process and whatever civil rights that happen to exist.Basically it means the army gets to round up and/or shoot whomever they want, and to take and use private property and equipment as and when they see fit.

so basically the army can behave like the BKK police do everyday in a state of emergency

Wholesale to the police's retail.

And Black is White. Thai police responsible for many more deaths of innocents than could ever be attributed to the military.

Hey, anyway, here's to the resourcefulness and spirit of the Thai people, who find ways to mange despite their government having abandoned them to their fate. Some incredible pictures here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/14/world/asia/thailand-flooding-scene/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

[kimamey]

I suspect that there's a lot more breaking down barriers than is being reported. The PM mentioned it several times in her speech the other day.

People who have been submerged for weeks are getting to be very resentful of their neighbors who are still dry and protected, so they are knocking down the barriers that keep the water on their land.

Yea there are two sides to the coin. But flooding others will only mean that the relief when it comes will cost more and take longer.

But people are resenting the PM for protecting BKK, will cost her votes.

It will probably be forgotten by the time there's an election and it might be a bit harsh to blame her. Mind you sometimes someone is blamed even if not all their fault. What might cause her a problem (unfairly in my opinion) is not an election which is probably a long way off but she might be pressured to step down as PM to let her brother in. Some people seem to think he can perform miracles and that may be her biggest danger.

[ThaiKiwi]

So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

Now why would you think that they would be on the same page??? That's ridiculous: PT is in charge, but the Dem. governor wants his party to gain face so he sits on the fence uncommitted, and (of course) the military want to be in charge again with their puppet PM...

I guess you wouldn't know sarcasm if it slapped you in the face?

Yes, PT is in charge and making an incredible mess of things. Science minister screams "EVACUATE", Justice Minister says "Ignore that moron", and PM goes off to cry. Yeah, PT really inspires confidence in their handling of this crisis... NOT!

I'm glad to know that the authorities in Bangkok are not relying on PT to protect the city.

Thai Military is already doing a lot to evacuate people, distribute aid and fortify and protect flood barriers. They could do more, but PM refuses to declare a state of emergency.

Shocking incompetence and zero accountability.

TiT :jap:

If you are going to quote some one then give them the decency to make the quote as realistic as possible. The Science Minister did not in any way at all say "Evacuate". Not in Thai or in English. He made a very middle of the road statement saying that a certain area might get flooded. It was a vague and when it was mentioned to a group of people who were eagerly waiting for a statement saying evacuate or don't evacuate, it was inferred to mean "evacuate".

[rogerdee123]

The Army wants emergency powers so they can arrest people who are breaking the flood walls intentionally. There aren't enough police to guard the flood walls.

[Wiggy]

Is there a collection of photos anywhere on the net of this in Bangkok? Anyone know if the Thongo Lo area, soi 36 and soi 38 are under water? thx

I live in soi 36 and it's bone dry at the moment.

[hammered]

If the military feel a state of emergency is needed they should be quietly behind the scenes informing the PM and relevant ministers and not making pubklic statements. The military answer to the elected government that has to make decisions and be accountable. There is also enough confusing information, weird acts and outright panicky and bizarre news stories out there without those who should be working together within the democratic framework to solve people's problems start bickering. Now is a time to work together and put diferences aside

[TechnikaIII]

So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

If the military could be trusted to function in a true 'civil defence' mode, the state of emergency could be the way to go. But with their history of brutality? One thing is for sure, the already tragic death toll would increase dramatically.

Then there is also the prospect of getting them out once the crisis has past.

Bad call. .. unless they unarmed.

[rogerdee123]

So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

If the military could be trusted to function in a true 'civil defence' mode, the state of emergency could be the way to go. But with their history of brutality? One thing is for sure, the already tragic death toll would increase dramatically.

Then there is also the prospect of getting them out once the crisis has past.

Bad call. .. unless they unarmed.

Well the US Marines are going to be here shortly working on flood relief and Yingluck is going to look pretty stupid if she doesn't allow the Thai military to help.

[serenitynow]

So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

If the military could be trusted to function in a true 'civil defence' mode, the state of emergency could be the way to go. But with their history of brutality? One thing is for sure, the already tragic death toll would increase dramatically.

Then there is also the prospect of getting them out once the crisis has past.

Bad call. .. unless they unarmed.

What the hell are you talking about? If the military wanted to take power that's just what they'd do, They'd not be waiting around for an order from the government. The fact is they are the only institution with the organization, manpower and equipment to handle the logistics of delivering aid and evacuating and sheltering persons affected by the floods. Period! To not utilize that resource to its fullest is in my view a malfeasance by government officials.

[khundanny]

Water management engineers have the answer: infrastructure - more klongs and more levies. Both of these solutions are earth-moving activities which would provide many jobs to the masses of out- of -work Thais. It's time for a national commitment to fix this country-wide problem. This doesn't have to be like solving the traffic problem in downtown BKK.

[TAWP]

If the military feel a state of emergency is needed they should be quietly behind the scenes informing the PM and relevant ministers and not making pubklic statements.

So you, Jayboy and the gov can deny it ever happened? Now everyone knows what was put on the table.

There is also enough confusing information, weird acts and outright panicky and bizarre news stories out there /../

And that's just from the government side alone!