Nor/thai Couple Bring Thai Daughter To Uk

[NordicMan]

Hi,

I'm a Norwegian guy working in a shipping company in London. My wife is Thai, and we're been living here since September 2004. In case it matters, Norway is member of EEA but not EU. I have applied for, and received, a residence permit. My wife has a 5-year EEA Family Permit, that allows her to stay and work here as long as we remain married and I work here.

Wife has a 14 year daughter from before we met, who is currently living back in Thailand. We want her to come and live with us from March/April next year, after her matayom 3 school exams are over.

We are going to Bangkok for xmas holiday and hopes to sort out the paperwork while we are there. In that regards, I would be most grateful for any advice on what needs to be done.

We have the following documents

- Our wedding certificate (got married in Singapore, so it's in English)

- My residence permit

- My employment contract, National Insurance #, bank details etc.

- Wife's 5-year EEA Family Permit

- Wife's birth cert original in Thai with English certified translation

- Wife's family name change certificate (changed her family name to mine) original in Thai with English certified translation

- Wife's first name name change cert (had different first name when she gave birth), original in Thai with English certified translation

We just asked wife's parents to get the kid's birth certificate original. We will get this translated in Bangkok ourselves, using same agency as before, during our hol.

Kid has no passport. We need to figure out how to get that.

We want to have all the paperwork in place, so we can make the application while we are on holiday. I don't want to be told by embassystaff to get more documents and come back later.

The daughter has mostly been staying with the father's relatives, but the father himself couldn't care less and is not much involved.

As I understand, the correct form to use is the "VAF1 - Non Settlement Form", which is the same application form as I used for the wife when we moved here in the first place.

Questions...

How do we get a passport for her?

Do we need any more documents?

Do we need any approval, agreement or involvement from the father?

Are there anything we should be aware of?

Many thanks

-NM

[the scouser]

Hi Nordic Man,

Your step-daughter should qualify for a family permit, as your wife did. She will need a passport. The advantage which you have is your step-daughter needs only to prove that she is your wife's daughter, not that she is dependent upon her. A letter from the husband might assist, but is not required. I think you have sufficient supporting documentation.

Family permit applications should be fully considered on the day the application is lodged. If the visa officer insists that your step-daughter requires an interview, then refer him/her to the Diplomatic Service Procedures.

Med vennlig hilsen,

Scouse.

[NordicMan]

Hi Nordic Man,

Your step-daughter should qualify for a family permit, as your wife did. She will need a passport. The advantage which you have is your step-daughter needs only to prove that she is your wife's daughter, not that she is dependent upon her. A letter from the husband might assist, but is not required. I think you have sufficient supporting documentation.

Family permit applications should be fully considered on the day the application is lodged. If the visa officer insists that your step-daughter requires an interview, then refer him/her to the Diplomatic Service Procedures.

Med vennlig hilsen,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for a very swift and excellent reply. I will print out that web page and bring with me - I've looked around at ukvisas quite a lot but had missed that particular page.

The remaining issue is the kid's passport - Are there any difficulties in getting that? My wife does not know of any restrictions. Do we just go to the passport office in Bangkok and bring her birth cert, family book and thai ID card? Any problems with getting a passport when she is younger than 18 or 21?

Takk for all hjelp

NM

[the scouser]

The issue of Thai passports for minors was discussed recently in another thread, and this useful link was provided. It seems that your step-daughter's father will have to sign a letter consenting to his daughter travelling.

In my previous post I made reference to the husband, when I, in fact, meant father. Apologies.

Scouse.

[NordicMan]

Hiya Scouser,

Just back from bkk and things didn't go as smooth as hoped for. Additional documentation was required - both the embassy and ukvisas on the phone requested a letter of sole custody from the father. We got that in the end.

Also needed a tubercolosis test - and the uk embassy accepted it from only one hospital. We all know that in most hospitals you can buy whatever medical certificate you want, so I understand their insistence of using a specific hospital.

The dealbreaker was the we are required to show evidence of suitable accomodation. We're currently living in a studio flat but are looking to buy a "proper" flat in Feb or March. Got mortgage sorted out and everything is ready, just need to find the place. However, the girl can't get the visa before we actually have the place in hand, an intent to buy isn't good enough. It's no real rush for us, she's not finishing her matayom 3 before end march anyway, but it would be nice to have the visa before that.

In any case, we hope to get the visa as soon as we have the flat.

Cheers

NM

[the scouser]

Hi NordicMan,

Sorry to hear about the hiccoughs at the embassy.

Ultimately, when your step-daughter gets her family permit, the hoops through which the embassy have made you jump become redundant, but I would argue that for the purposes of getting the family permit, accommodation is not a factor the embassy should be considering as it isn't one of the qualifying criteria. Cramped accommodation might be a consideration for the local authority, but, in this instance, not for the visa officer.

Furthermore, I would argue that the embassy has no entitlement to insist upon a TB test as this, to my understanding, is only applicable to those seeking entry under the UK immigration rules and your step-daughter's application is governed by European directive rather than national law.

Anyway, best of luck,

Scouse.

[GU22]

I beg to differ, Scouse.

Although the criteria for an EEA family permit are a lot less strict than a settlement visa, the sponsor still needs to show "evidence of your employment in the UK or that you can support them for the whole period of their stay in the UK." (What supporting documents should my family members include with their application? ) I would assume this means suitable accommodation as well, but may be wrong.

On the TB front, the notice on the Embassy website says

.......all applicants in Thailand wishing to come to the United Kingdom for a period longer than six months will need to obtain a certificate confirming that they are free from infectious tuberculosis (TB) before submitting their visa application. The categories of applicant that will be affected by this new requirement include long-term students, work permit holders, other employment and domestic workers, volunteer workers (plus all dependants of the aforementioned), and all settlement and marriage cases..........

The following will be exempt from the TB testing requirement:

All diplomatic passport holders;

All children aged under 11 years.

It doesn't sat EEA family permit applicants are included, but the list is not inclusive. It certainly does not say that they are exempt. I guess a sponsor could take the British government to court claiming his treaty rights are being ignored, but it seems that getting a TB certificate would be a lot easier and quicker and cheaper!

As for parental consent, the British embassy, due to measures to prevent child smuggling, will not issue a residency permit of any kind to a child unless:-

They are travelling with or to join both natural parents.

They are travelling with or to join one parent who has sole custody issued by an Ampur or court.

They are travelling to join the surviving parent, who has the death certificate of the deceased parent.

NordicMan, cross the 't's and dot the 'i's and your step-daughter will soon be here. At least your application is free, and you've not lost a whopping £260!

[the scouser]

Although the criteria for an EEA family permit are a lot less strict than a settlement visa, the sponsor still needs to show "evidence of your employment in the UK or that you can support them for the whole period of their stay in the UK". I would assume this means suitable accommodation as well, but may be wrong.

"Support" in the above context relates solely to a financial requirement, hence "evidence of employment...or that you can support them"; i.e. either you are working or you have independent means. If accommodation were a consideration in such applications it would be specified, and it's not. Indeed, nowhere in the EU directive does it state that accommodation is a factor in deciding family permit applications.

Note, for example, the immigration rules which state that an applicant has to be "maintained and accommodated". If "support" in the above context extends to accommodation concerns, then the same could be said of "maintained" in the immigration rules, yet "accommodation" is separately specified.

I think that NordicMan's experience is an example of the ECO not fully understanding that a different set of criteria applies to family permit applications and he's still trying to determine the application through the use of the immigration rules.

Scouse.