Abhisit Blames Thai Govt For Misjudging Flood Threat To Nava Nakorn

[scorecard]

We had floods when he was in office and he did nothing except try to get his picture taken at every chance. He can't get over the fact that he was voted out of office. He still wants to be a powerful force, but he's a nobody. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, spoiled, and part of the Bangkok elete. He should accept the fact he's a nobody and let the government do what they are elected to do. Something he never did.

That's the problem, isn't it? The government are NOT doing what they were elected to do.

This government DID misjudge the threat to Nava Nakorn. They knew exactly what problems they had to deal with. A few days ago they were telling everyone that the industrial estate would be safe. Why did they get it wrong?

Maybe the misjudgement was made by the responsible officials, perhaps even RTA engineers who I think have been on site for days.

Have you not experienced changing circumstances ????

Situations do change, sometimes quickly.

I think it's probably a bit early to play the blame game, but do carry on if it amuses you.

More important is make a full and as fast as possible recovery and ensure that this does not happen again.

I think it's very likely that some of the best brains in the country are now engaged with these problems.

Try not to mock.

"I think it's very likely that some of the best brains in the country are now engaged with these problems."

I very much doubt it, unfortunately.

Well be hearing more total rubbish from the science minister and the heads of the other various ministries, all of whom are there because of pay offs, nepotism, paybacks etc, and are totally incapable, they are all so focused on how important they think they are, and unfortunately, none of them will ever allow the ones with brains anywhere near the positions where insightful analysis and design is done, and/or decisions are made.

[WarpSpeed]

Ok hadn't known this but how has he been helping? He made one visit to the command center that I've heard of and certainly this is a good PR opportunity to make any efforts public so why haven't we heard more about them?.

You posted before my edit so what about the fact that this admin is still in transition and his admin ran the country the previous 2 years?

JFYI I thought he was doing a decent job while he was in office, but I think at this point the timing of his rhetoric and criticisms is inappropriate to be saved for a post flood inquiry.

http://reliefweb.int/node/442133

http://reliefweb.int/node/281220

I think some of what is being said needs to be said now. The government need to get their act into order. They said last week that one person would be making the announcements, and the very next day someone else was making announcements. It's a complete joke.

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Edited October 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[whybother]

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Google's a wonderful thing.

The opposition party doesn't have the government departments or money to call on as the government does. Do you think the PTP are using their own resources for anything that they're doing?

[Thaddeus]

They said last week that one person would be making the announcements, and the very next day someone else was making announcements. It's a complete joke.

Dad's Army style.

PM Lance Corporal Jones - "Don't panic, don't panic"

Science Minister Private Fraser - "We're all doomed, doomed I tell ya"

[WarpSpeed]

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Google's a wonderful thing.

The opposition party doesn't have the government departments or money to call on as the government does. Do you think the PTP are using their own resources for anything that they're doing?

Hmmm they weren't in control of budgets etc. for the last 2 years? The truth of the matter is that they weren't concerned then as it is clear it didn't involve their constituency in danger and now they're trying to pin it on the current admin.. If they had taken any concern they might have had a better result in the election as this is EXACTLY the type of oversights that have manifested the current tensions as they're seen only doing for the high so's and not the common folk..

As many have said here and I agree, just not with the timeline, this was not an overnight development and the political chaos that has riled this country for decades is as much at fault and the most recent and prolific instigators of that has been the Dems.. The floods have been building for years not just the past few months he (Abhisit) was in power during the last flooding and what long term solutions did they pose or implement that would have reduced the impact of the current disaster?

Rhetorical question, the answer is an emphatic "0"..

[OzMick]

If he had any sense at all, he would stear well clear of making any comments about the current, democratically elected, administrations efforts to deal with this crisis.

This weak, late, puppet PM certainly had ample time to make the necessary rules, regulations and procedures to be followed in times of floods and disasters, and to get going the large construction projects that are what's really needed for effective flood management in this country.

Too bloody True. they have already made a complete <deleted>-up of handling the situation, it's likely to get worse and even more <deleted>-up, and he should try to stay well clear or some of the <deleted> that's going to hit the fan will come his way.

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

[WarpSpeed]

If he had any sense at all, he would stear well clear of making any comments about the current, democratically elected, administrations efforts to deal with this crisis.

This weak, late, puppet PM certainly had ample time to make the necessary rules, regulations and procedures to be followed in times of floods and disasters, and to get going the large construction projects that are what's really needed for effective flood management in this country.

Too bloody True. they have already made a complete <deleted>-up of handling the situation, it's likely to get worse and even more <deleted>-up, and he should try to stay well clear or some of the <deleted> that's going to hit the fan will come his way.

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

I was with you until you wrote this

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

To whom are you referring when you say "they" were democratically elected?

Remember, the topic is about Abhisit...

Edited October 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[whybother]

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Google's a wonderful thing.

The opposition party doesn't have the government departments or money to call on as the government does. Do you think the PTP are using their own resources for anything that they're doing?

Hmmm they weren't in control of budgets etc. for the last 2 years? The truth of the matter is that they weren't concerned then as it is clear it didn't involve their constituency in danger and now they're trying to pin it on the current admin.. If they had taken any concern they might have had a better result in the election as this is EXACTLY the type of oversights that have manifested the current tensions as they're seen only doing for the high so's and not the common folk..

As many have said here and I agree, just not with the timeline, this was not an overnight development and the political chaos that has riled this country for decades is as much at fault and the most recent and prolific instigators of that has been the Dems.. The floods have been building for years not just the past few months he (Abhisit) was in power during the last flooding and what long term solutions did they pose or implement that would have reduced the impact of the current disaster?

Rhetorical question, the answer is an emphatic "0"..

They aren't in control of the budgets now. They don't have the Thai tax payer's money to spend on relief. The government does. You can't look at what the Democrats are doing now and compare it to what the government is doing. The Democrats are doing what they can within their own organisation. The government have all the government departments at their mercy.

We're not talking about long term flood solutions. That is the fault of Thai governments for the last 30 years.

We are talking about what the government is doing in handling the floods. Their communication is all over the place. Their efforts seem to be misdirected. They could have been using many of the boats to assist in helping people instead of wasting fuel "pushing water downhill". They said the the industrial park was safe, and less than a day later it was flooded.

This isn't a "new government". Many of the people in this government have been involved in the same issues for many years.

[WarpSpeed]

The way some expates are diehard suporters of this govt. no matter how bad they look makes me wonder if we will soon be seeing farang red villages. Your undying support for your Issan sweethearts is admirable, but ..........

Nope not die hard supporters of this government just applying less emotionalism and more logical common sense and reality..

[whybother]

I was with you until you wrote this

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

To whom are you referring when you say "they" were democratically elected?

Remember, the topic is about Abhisit...

Is it?

"Abhisit Blames Thai Govt For Misjudging Flood Threat To Nava Nakorn"

[WarpSpeed]

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Google's a wonderful thing.

The opposition party doesn't have the government departments or money to call on as the government does. Do you think the PTP are using their own resources for anything that they're doing?

Hmmm they weren't in control of budgets etc. for the last 2 years? The truth of the matter is that they weren't concerned then as it is clear it didn't involve their constituency in danger and now they're trying to pin it on the current admin.. If they had taken any concern they might have had a better result in the election as this is EXACTLY the type of oversights that have manifested the current tensions as they're seen only doing for the high so's and not the common folk..

As many have said here and I agree, just not with the timeline, this was not an overnight development and the political chaos that has riled this country for decades is as much at fault and the most recent and prolific instigators of that has been the Dems.. The floods have been building for years not just the past few months he (Abhisit) was in power during the last flooding and what long term solutions did they pose or implement that would have reduced the impact of the current disaster?

Rhetorical question, the answer is an emphatic "0"..

They aren't in control of the budgets now. They don't have the Thai tax payer's money to spend on relief. The government does. You can't look at what the Democrats are doing now and compare it to what the government is doing. The Democrats are doing what they can within their own organisation. The government have all the government departments at their mercy.

We're not talking about long term flood solutions. That is the fault of Thai governments for the last 30 years.

We are talking about what the government is doing in handling the floods. Their communication is all over the place. Their efforts seem to be misdirected. They could have been using many of the boats to assist in helping people instead of wasting fuel "pushing water downhill". They said the the industrial park was safe, and less than a day later it was flooded.

This isn't a "new government". Many of the people in this government have been involved in the same issues for many years.

Ok so if your only response is going to be moving the goal posts and avoiding the salient points made then we have nothing further to discuss.. I've no time nor patience for intentionally being obtuse..

[Misterwhisper]

Which ministry usually manage this kind of natural disaster ?

Interior , Sicence & Technology or which ministries ?

The Ministry of Incompetence and Ineptitude, perhaps?

[WarpSpeed]

I was with you until you wrote this

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

To whom are you referring when you say "they" were democratically elected?

Remember, the topic is about Abhisit...

Is it?

"Abhisit Blames Thai Govt For Misjudging Flood Threat To Nava Nakorn"

Yes it is!!!! As I've highlighted for you in bold And the post he responded to was in regards to Abhisit and his comments..

Edited October 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[whybother]

Ok so if your only response is going to be moving the goal posts and avoiding the salient points made then we have nothing further to discuss.. I've no time nor patience for intentionally being obtuse..

Who is moving the goal posts?

The topic is about "misjudging the flood threat".

[OzMick]

If he had any sense at all, he would stear well clear of making any comments about the current, democratically elected, administrations efforts to deal with this crisis.

This weak, late, puppet PM certainly had ample time to make the necessary rules, regulations and procedures to be followed in times of floods and disasters, and to get going the large construction projects that are what's really needed for effective flood management in this country.

Too bloody True. they have already made a complete <deleted>-up of handling the situation, it's likely to get worse and even more <deleted>-up, and he should try to stay well clear or some of the <deleted> that's going to hit the fan will come his way.

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

I was with you until you wrote this

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

To whom are you referring when you say "they" were democratically elected?

Remember, the topic is about Abhisit...

You don't think PTP were democratically elected? I admit it wasn't perfect with an ill-informed uneducated populace believing that unaffordable and unworkable policies would be delivered, but that's life in the 3rd world.

BTW I believe the Abhisit government took out a very large loan for flood relief work, which of course hasn't had time to be completed. No dusty roads, or some such???

[gl555]

They aren't in control of the budgets now. They don't have the Thai tax payer's money to spend on relief. The government does. You can't look at what the Democrats are doing now and compare it to what the government is doing. The Democrats are doing what they can within their own organisation. The government have all the government departments at their mercy.

We're not talking about long term flood solutions. That is the fault of Thai governments for the last 30 years.

We are talking about what the government is doing in handling the floods. Their communication is all over the place. Their efforts seem to be misdirected. They could have been using many of the boats to assist in helping people instead of wasting fuel "pushing water downhill". They said the the industrial park was safe, and less than a day later it was flooded.

This isn't a "new government". Many of the people in this government have been involved in the same issues for many years.

Ok so if your only response is going to be moving the goal posts and avoiding the salient points made then we have nothing further to discuss.. I've no time nor patience for intentionally being obtuse..

I think he made a very legitimate point there. If you really can't argue the facts, don't need to get the last word in and make excuses about him being 'intentionally obtuse'.

[WarpSpeed]

Too bloody True. they have already made a complete <deleted>-up of handling the situation, it's likely to get worse and even more <deleted>-up, and he should try to stay well clear or some of the <deleted> that's going to hit the fan will come his way.

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

I was with you until you wrote this

But it's nice that they are a democratically elected pack of <deleted>-ups, isn't it?

To whom are you referring when you say "they" were democratically elected?

Remember, the topic is about Abhisit...

You don't think PTP were democratically elected? I admit it wasn't perfect with an ill-informed uneducated populace believing that unaffordable and unworkable policies would be delivered, but that's life in the 3rd world.

BTW I believe the Abhisit government took out a very large loan for flood relief work, which of course hasn't had time to be completed. No dusty roads, or some such???

No, I do , but your post is quoting another poster who is referring to Abhisits admin not the current one..

[WarpSpeed]

They aren't in control of the budgets now. They don't have the Thai tax payer's money to spend on relief. The government does. You can't look at what the Democrats are doing now and compare it to what the government is doing. The Democrats are doing what they can within their own organisation. The government have all the government departments at their mercy.

We're not talking about long term flood solutions. That is the fault of Thai governments for the last 30 years.

We are talking about what the government is doing in handling the floods. Their communication is all over the place. Their efforts seem to be misdirected. They could have been using many of the boats to assist in helping people instead of wasting fuel "pushing water downhill". They said the the industrial park was safe, and less than a day later it was flooded.

This isn't a "new government". Many of the people in this government have been involved in the same issues for many years.

Ok so if your only response is going to be moving the goal posts and avoiding the salient points made then we have nothing further to discuss.. I've no time nor patience for intentionally being obtuse..

I think he made a very legitimate point there. If you really can't argue the facts, don't need to get the last word in and make excuses about him being 'intentionally obtuse'.

One mans opinion, he skirted the points made and moved the goal posts to suit his argument, it's a common liberal tactic I have no patience for so I won't respond in kind..

[ianf]

We had floods when he was in office and he did nothing except try to get his picture taken at every chance. He can't get over the fact that he was voted out of office. He still wants to be a powerful force, but he's a nobody. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, spoiled, and part of the Bangkok elete. He should accept the fact he's a nobody and let the government do what they are elected to do. Something he never did.

Did you mean the Bangkok elite?

Are your friends the Shinawatras not part of the elite?

Is Abhisit not doing what he should be in his role as opposition leader?

When he was in power did the opposition (reds), led by that well known elite, Thaksin, allow him to do what he needed to do?

I think before posting you should just ask yourself a few serious questions.

[OzMick]

[

You don't think PTP were democratically elected? I admit it wasn't perfect with an ill-informed uneducated populace believing that unaffordable and unworkable policies would be delivered, but that's life in the 3rd world.

BTW I believe the Abhisit government took out a very large loan for flood relief work, which of course hasn't had time to be completed. No dusty roads, or some such???

No, I do , but your post is quoting another poster who is referring to Abhisits admin not the current one..

The post that I quoted said "If he had any sense at all, he would stear well clear of making any comments about the current, democratically elected, administrations efforts to deal with this crisis." (sic) NB my bold.

I agreed.

Make sense now?

[whybother]

One mans opinion, he skirted the points made and moved the goal posts to suit his argument, it's a common liberal tactic I have no patience for so I won't respond in kind..

Who moved the goal posts and brought up long term solutions?

[OzMick]

We had floods when he was in office and he did nothing except try to get his picture taken at every chance. He can't get over the fact that he was voted out of office. He still wants to be a powerful force, but he's a nobody. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, spoiled, and part of the Bangkok elete. He should accept the fact he's a nobody and let the government do what they are elected to do. Something he never did.

Did you mean the Bangkok elite?

Are your friends the Shinawatras not part of the elite?

Is Abhisit not doing what he should be in his role as opposition leader?

When he was in power did the opposition (reds), led by that well known elite, Thaksin, allow him to do what he needed to do?

I think before posting you should just ask yourself a few serious questions.

Whale oil beef hooked! I read Ralph's post and thought he was talking about Thaksin - had to go back and check the preceding posts. Thanks for clearing that up Ian.

[WarpSpeed]

[

You don't think PTP were democratically elected? I admit it wasn't perfect with an ill-informed uneducated populace believing that unaffordable and unworkable policies would be delivered, but that's life in the 3rd world.

BTW I believe the Abhisit government took out a very large loan for flood relief work, which of course hasn't had time to be completed. No dusty roads, or some such???

No, I do , but your post is quoting another poster who is referring to Abhisits admin not the current one..

The post that I quoted said "If he had any sense at all, he would stear well clear of making any comments about the current, democratically elected, administrations efforts to deal with this crisis." (sic) NB my bold.

I agreed.

Make sense now?

Yes you agreed which is why I was confused as you're final sentence contradicted your first paragraph of agreement. It seems you didn't do it intentionally but have another look at the post you quoted and who it was relative to and then your response...

[WarpSpeed]

We had floods when he was in office and he did nothing except try to get his picture taken at every chance. He can't get over the fact that he was voted out of office. He still wants to be a powerful force, but he's a nobody. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, spoiled, and part of the Bangkok elete. He should accept the fact he's a nobody and let the government do what they are elected to do. Something he never did.

Did you mean the Bangkok elite?

Are your friends the Shinawatras not part of the elite?

Is Abhisit not doing what he should be in his role as opposition leader?

When he was in power did the opposition (reds), led by that well known elite, Thaksin, allow him to do what he needed to do?

I think before posting you should just ask yourself a few serious questions.

Whale oil beef hooked! I read Ralph's post and thought he was talking about Thaksin - had to go back and check the preceding posts. Thanks for clearing that up Ian.

Now you've got it! Hence my confusion...

[teko]

I found a couple of maps yesterday locating the flooded park. It is not near the river but about 10 miles north of don muang airport. Seems to me the floodwater is moving south on a broad front and the temporary dams will struggle to stop it

Correct and BKK will be under within two weeks, I'll put my house on it, well the one I just lost yesterday and I thought nah!it won't happen.

Check the front page of the Nation today and the satellite pic, that volume of water heading south and they reckon it will be saved.

Do not trust those moronic Thai polies, simply lying through their teeth, this is simply something they have no grasp for, the forces of nature and geography.

[EyesWideOpen]

Bangkok has been flooded for at least 66 years , with a major one in 1945. Am sure there were floods before that as well. So clearly the government has neither the expertise nor political will to stop the floods. So now these industrial estates were built in a well known flood plain. Therefore it should have been up to the developer of these estates to figure out the highest possible water level going back for 100 years, and build levees around the estates higher than that level. And also build entrances that could block water. The fact they did not, shows they were simply being cheap by building low levees. If I was a factory owner that got wiped out, I would sue the living crap out of the estate owner. Considering the billions of dollars at stake, higher dirt levees would seem like a very cheap investment.........

So the government SHOULD stop the floods , but have historically proven they cannot. So the next layer of responsibility lies with the industrial estate owner. I guess the final layer of responsibility lies with the factory owners who chose to locate their facilities in a flood plain. Guess they did not do their own levee height research...........

[whybother]

Interesting that about this time last year, Peau Thai "demanded legal action against PM (Abhisit)"

"The opposition Puea Thai Party on Friday petitioned the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) to take legal action against Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, claiming he acted too slowly to counter the effects from the recent flooding, resulting in massive damage to property and many deaths."

I hope they don't complain too much if people start demanding that Yingluck get's legal action against her.

[Cloggie]

More than 100 years ago my ancestors in Holland already build dykes against the water and we still profit from their work TODAY!

What have the Thai people done so far against water? Nothing today, nothing tomorrow and nothing in the next 100 years!

Sorry about this negative comment.

Cloggie

[tlansford]

Abhisit has clearly perfected talking out of both sides of his mouth...

As he just talked about "rifts" today...

[cdnvic]

Two posts were deleted. One for rumour mongering and another that was just rude.