Legal Recourse In A Bike Accident And The Reality.

[ajarnyai]

I ride a motorcycle 130KM a day back and forth to work. I've had countless close calls with people driving on the wrong side of the road or other stupid, but obviously socially acceptable things. I'm sure it will happen one day, so when get hit, and I'm not dead to too injured, what can I do?

It might seem "over the top vindictive", but if someone totals my 100,000 + baht bike and puts me in the hospital, cause me to loose wages, and disrupts my life, I would want to press charges and have them thrown in jail for what their negligence has caused. The insurance claim alone would not satisfy me. I'm aware that most drivers in Thailand don't carry insurance. Since that is against the law, I should clearly have a case. If they are driving on the wrong side of the road that should be a clear case of criminal negligence, Right?

Does anyone know what the law is for this type of situation? Has anyone been hurt buy a Thais negligence?

If I continue to live here, I guess I need to start saving up for a nice retainer for my lawyer.

[katabeachbum]

Every vehicle with a valid tax sticker carrys Por Or Bor, compulsory Insurance, which is limited to cover your medical treatment up to max 50k baht.

More than that is extremely difficult to get, as you really cant sew a broke day worker or housewife, and doing so costs you 50-100k baht in legal fees and still ends with zero baht outcome. If the other party is in breach of traffic rules, and you have at least 2 witnesses supporting that, you can have Police lock him/her up until they have paid, but as they find no money you will need to decide if you want them to remain in jail or not

In addition, riding a 100k bike, you should have your own Insurance covering you and your bike

Writing this I am looking at a 60 yo mans drivers license here at my desk. He hit my car with his (illegal) samlor while overtaking me on the yellow centerfied on a 4 lane road. My car was not moving. He promised to pay the 8k baht repair, but thats 6 months ago. His drivers lisence was issued 40 years ago, photo is a schoolboy, and it dissolves every time I touch it.................... He is a pore day worker. Learning from Thai culture, I have decided to not contact him again

[thaicbr]

what bike do you have?

If it's a Cbr250 then you CAN get 1st class insurance to cover yourself from SUMET Cycle (TV Sponsor) for 6,900b. A small price to pay for the extended cover that it gives you.

Another idea might be move closer to work

Be careful out there.

Edited November 1, 2011 by thaicbr

[ajarnyai]

I do have a CBR250, and I'm going to get 1st class insurance as soon as I can, but I was thinking more about justice instead of compensation. What if a child died. I think most would agree that money just wouldn't be enough. I think drunk drivers are charged as criminals, but what about other forms of negligence?

[katabeachbum]

reckless driving charges happens, but not common as hard to prove and hard to find witnesses willing to appear in court over and over until sentence is solid

most traffic offenses has a 1.000 baht fine limit

any accident with mortality, drivers need to post bail 200k baht, or Insurance bail bond, to stay out of jail until case solved

[thaicbr]

I do have a CBR250, and I'm going to get 1st class insurance as soon as I can, but I was thinking more about justice instead of compensation. What if a child died. I think most would agree that money just wouldn't be enough. I think drunk drivers are charged as criminals, but what about other forms of negligence?

This is Thailand. Justice IS money. Think about yourself because no one else will. By the way it does take a few days for the insurance to get sorted out because the insurance company send someone out to photograph your bike then you have to wait for the paper work. You are not covered until they have done the paperwork.

[wantan]

> I would want to press charges and have them thrown in jail for what their negligence has caused

From what country are you where people doing a mistake were immediatly thrown into jail? I would not call this "justice". Even if you get seriously hurt, the failing person will sure not have done it acting in bad faith. I get angry too many times while driving in LOS, especially Bangkok. But police is doing nothing and i doubt that a farang can change this crazy behaviour of thai drivers. And traffic planning in LOS seems not to think about two wheeled vehicles too. Maybe i better buy a big truck and feel save

And i guess the type of justice you want would only be applied to the poor people in most cases. Rich people will find their way to escape the prison quickly. I wouldn't like this.

[wantan]

> What can you do when the other guy is clearly at fault?

Pretty much the same than in every other country too. Secure yourself, secure the szene of accident, look for other people injured, make a photograph of the accident, mark the vehicles position on the street with chalk before moving them, call the police, find witnesses, ...

Very difficult if you are involved in a motorcycle accident by yourself. But noone else will do it for you. Even the police will most likely not.

[zorro1]

OP what are you going to do if you put some one in hospital? will you step up and pay good will for loss of income and wreck less riding? What happens if the patient decides to pursue you to the ends of the earth for an "accident"

You are very brave riding a bike that far everyday and its not a matter of how but simply when IMO. The best of sincerest luck to you its a jungle out there

[nikster]

Adjust your riding to local conditions.

As you would think, getting money back is going to be impossible if you hit somebody who simply doesn't have money or insurance, regardless whether they're at fault or not. Getting them thrown in jail isn't going to help you heal faster, or change anybody's behavior.

On the German Autobahn, I can go 200 no problem. Trough the local village, it's best to go around 30 because various people, objects, and persons can suddenly manifest in front of you and if you go faster you'll hit something eventually. On a Thai highway, be very careful. It always depends but as an example the highway north from Chiang Mai doesn't have a fence, and there are many, many, many opportunities for people to go the wrong way, do u-turns, cross the entire highway at 20 km/h without looking behind to do a u-turn, suddenly come out of a small soi - all that does and will happen. No amount of farang rage will change it. Therefore, you have to adjust your speed.

I believe it's always your fault. If you hit something, you didn't look, didn't pay attention, or were going too fast.

A young Thai rider went on a trip with a big group from Pai 2 years back. He had gotten an ER-6n for his birthday; he was wearing all the best safety gear, the only one in the group to do so actually. Arai helmet, boots, gloves, armor, the works. It's estimated he was going around 150 on the small road to Mae Hong Son just outside Pai when a Pick-up pulled out of a side street. He swerved to avoid it, hit a pothole, got off the road and into a tree. He was dead on the spot. Let his death be a lesson to you.

[CMX]

OP,

I just want to underline - and stress - what has been said, particularly by thaicbr. See, I dropped bikes three times the first year here after never having done it once - on the highways of the west. (Luck = nothing bad happpened.

Neither laws, enforcement of laws, nor the court system are even roughly related to your experiences of the West. Lawyers either.

I liked that you mention people driving the wrong way; means you're taking notice of driving customs.in this nation.

Customs and habits of driving by Thais have much more to do with saving your behind than a useless notion of right and wrong.

So, yes, slow down until you can study local ways of driving (try to get a new one or two each way, each day), don't delay on first class insurance (sew your agent's phone number to your heart), live and learn.

This is a Way Different Planet

Edited November 1, 2011 by CMX

[ajarnyai]

"From what country are you where people doing a mistake were immediatly thrown into jail? I would not call this "justice". Even if you get seriously hurt, the failing person will sure not have done it acting in bad faith. I get angry too many times while driving in LOS, especially Bangkok. But police is doing nothing and i doubt that a farang can change this crazy behaviour of thai drivers."

quoted from wantan

I'm not saying that they should be immediately thrown in jail, but when you are driving down the wrong side of a busy road in the unofficial "bike lane" you should expect a head on collision. I think this is the same as driving after a beer or two. Although you can probably make it home, you know you're impaired and putting your life an the lives of the other driviers in risk.

To clarify. why I'm so upset and thinking about punishment and justice. I'll give you a brief explanation.

I'm making a left turn at a traffic light. There is a truck parked at the corner, so I can't see on coming traffic (there should be no "on coming traffic when making a left BTW). I turn, and I come face to face with an adult women in a government employee's uniform on a scooter. I swerve, and miss her by inches. If it wasn't for the high performance handling of my bike (or pure luck), she would have hit me. Any damages or injury were cause by negligence, and I would say criminal negligence. She did not miscalculate her speed or, "just didn't see me", or had poor reflexes. She broke a law that has obvious safety implications. Whether it was her intent to hit me or not she f*&cked up real bad and caused injury and damages. If my hypothetical 10 year old daughter was in a comma for the rest of her life as a result, You couldn't pay enough. The MAX pay out on compulsory insurance is like 50-100 thousand baht. I would want justice dam_n it!

I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!!!

OK, now that I got that out. Seriously....

I wouldn't want the death penalty, but I think a persons freedom should be taken away from breaking rule number 1 of driving. Drive on the right side of the road. I would certainly want to press charges if they hit me.

Do they have a law for this type of thing here.

[skybluestu]

I was told recently that if you have an accident and someone dies, even if they are in the wrong, you have to pay their family money?! This isn't just for farang but for Thais too. Seems ridiculous that someone could be riding a motorbike the wrong way down a one-way street without a helmet while intoxicated yet their family still has to be compensated!

[katabeachbum]

"From what country are you where people doing a mistake were immediatly thrown into jail? I would not call this "justice". Even if you get seriously hurt, the failing person will sure not have done it acting in bad faith. I get angry too many times while driving in LOS, especially Bangkok. But police is doing nothing and i doubt that a farang can change this crazy behaviour of thai drivers."

quoted from wantan

I'm not saying that they should be immediately thrown in jail, but when you are driving down the wrong side of a busy road in the unofficial "bike lane" you should expect a head on collision. I think this is the same as driving after a beer or two. Although you can probably make it home, you know you're impaired and putting your life an the lives of the other driviers in risk.

To clarify. why I'm so upset and thinking about punishment and justice. I'll give you a brief explanation.

I'm making a left turn at a traffic light. There is a truck parked at the corner, so I can't see on coming traffic (there should be no "on coming traffic when making a left BTW). I turn, and I come face to face with an adult women in a government employee's uniform on a scooter. I swerve, and miss her by inches. If it wasn't for the high performance handling of my bike (or pure luck), she would have hit me. Any damages or injury were cause by negligence, and I would say criminal negligence. She did not miscalculate her speed or, "just didn't see me", or had poor reflexes. She broke a law that has obvious safety implications. Whether it was her intent to hit me or not she f*&cked up real bad and caused injury and damages. If my hypothetical 10 year old daughter was in a comma for the rest of her life as a result, You couldn't pay enough. The MAX pay out on compulsory insurance is like 50-100 thousand baht. I would want justice dam_n it!

I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!!!

OK, now that I got that out. Seriously....

I wouldn't want the death penalty, but I think a persons freedom should be taken away from breaking rule number 1 of driving. Drive on the right side of the road. I would certainly want to press charges if they hit me.

Do they have a law for this type of thing here.

I would assume 5 million Thais drive on the wrong side of the road every single day. Posting on internett will not change that. Perhaps 3 more decades will

So the law is: observe, learn and adjust.

If you do not expect to meet someone on the wrong side of the road, do not drive/ride in Thailand

I have been doing schoolruns for a week with my 4 year old riding pcx some days and Ninja650R some days. Its like 60km a day. We both love it. I have approx 480.000km driving in this country past 9 years. I am prepered for anything to happen at any time. And it does. And there is always an escape if you are prepared and alert

[RusticCharm]

Customs and habits of driving by Thais have much more to do with saving your behind than a useless notion of right and wrong.

Have to disagree here. I would say customs and habits of driving by Thais have much more to do with saving time, poor attitude or laziness than saving your behind. From riding the wrong way down a road instead of doing a u-turn... to dodging pedestrians by jumping onto the sidewalk in a traffic jam... to sharply cutting across 4 lanes of traffic to use a nearer u-turn... to of not being bothered using turn signals or checking mirrors before turning or changing lanes.

The only part to do with saving your behind is fleeing after an accident.

Edited November 1, 2011 by RusticCharm

[wantan]

I wouldn't want the death penalty, but I think a persons freedom should be taken away from breaking rule number 1 of driving. Drive on the right side of the road. I would certainly want to press charges if they hit me.

But you sure want death penalty when someone hits you driving on the wrong side in the dark without lights, while using the telephone and smoking a cigarette

There should be some possibility to change the habits and avoid accidents before they happen. And this should be to enforce the traffic laws much more rigid than doing it now. It shouldn't be put people into jail or ruining their lifes just because they do what everybody does.

[katabeachbum]

Customs and habits of driving by Thais have much more to do with saving your behind than a useless notion of right and wrong.

Have to disagree here. I would say customs and habits of driving by Thais have much more to do with saving time, poor attitude or laziness than saving your behind. From riding the wrong way down a road instead of doing a u-turn... to dodging pedestrians by jumping onto the sidewalk in a traffic jam... to sharply cutting across 4 lanes of traffic to use a nearer u-turn... to of not being bothered using turn signals or checking mirrors before turning or changing lanes.

The only part to do with saving your behind is fleeing after an accident.

agreed, RC spot on

it is all about laziness and choosing the easy way out, and its all about not focusing on own driving/riding, and its all about extreme selfishness

and riding pcx with full face and a Thai kid on board, I ride thai style

[richard_smith237]

If laws are enforced and those responsible for accidents are held accountable it stands to reason there would be fewer accidents.

Just today I read on Thai Visa.com of the tragic death of a Singaporean lady at the hands of careless driver. I'm sure the charges are not commensurate with the loss of life (the other thread can be located from a search of Thaivisa.com).

And what happens if I am walking down the pavement (sidewalk) and a motorbike illegally riding down the same pavement hits me, hurts me and prevents me from working for a number of months? (I'm a consultant and only get a day rate for the days I work). I don't care about medical bills, thats always covered.

I feel exactly the same as the Op: When someone is clearly at fault, they should be held responsible for their careless actions. With greater accountability comes greater responsibility.

I would love to ride a motorbike in Thailand, but I don't because of this lack of accountability. I drive a large car, and I don't drive it down the wrong side of the road, jump red lights or drive drunk out of my mind. Not because of the Law but because I don't want to hurt someone else.

A bus breaking a red light missed my wife in her car by inches. Will that driver ever be held accountable? No, when my wife complained it turned out the traffic cams were not working and the driver couldn't be located (he might kill someone next time), my wife asked "What if the bus driver had killed me", the response was "You'd be dead and unable to complain, so no problem"... (one of the directors did call to apologise after my wife kicked up a stink regarding this matter)....

Simply Put: No accountability results in a lack of responsibility. The only way to force accountability is through education of the general public and adequate law enforcement.

I would love to see road safety campaigns on the TV, i.e. at critical times during in the main soaps etc...

[Gonsalviz]

I figure if they hit me, I am still at fault for letting them get to me. I know how they drive and am aware all the time. I ride slower here than anywhere I have ever ridden because of the road hazards (dogs, rocks, mud) not because of the driving habits.

[BigBikeBKK]

Welcome to Thailand! Don't ya love it?! :jap:

[CMX]

Customs and habits of driving by Thais have much more to do with saving your behind than a useless notion of right and wrong.

Have to disagree here. I would say customs and habits of driving by Thais have much more to do with saving time, poor attitude or laziness than saving your behind. From riding the wrong way down a road instead of doing a u-turn... to dodging pedestrians by jumping onto the sidewalk in a traffic jam... to sharply cutting across 4 lanes of traffic to use a nearer u-turn... to of not being bothered using turn signals or checking mirrors before turning or changing lanes.

The only part to do with saving your behind is fleeing after an accident.

Yeah, I said this all wrong. I should have written that learning the customs and habits of driving by Thais has more to do with saving my butt than any notion of right or wrong. I ain't going to change Thailand, so I gotta learn and cope. And it does no good to be angry about it.

Thanks, guys.

But considering that Thailand is jumping from the 19th century to the 21st without much of a 20th, I'm not sure that a lot of their driving is not just because you don't go from water buffaloes to Honda Cubs to Fortuners, as a nation, without a steep learning curve. Ignorance is more likely than evil intent?

[TongueThaied]

Welcome to Thailand! Don't ya love it?! :jap:

Yes, I f'ing love it! The last thing I want is a record-ruining, revenue gathering gestapo running around here "enforcing" the law. I seem to hear a lot of whiners begging for this. I left that back in the States and sure as hell don't want it here. Here, there are two rules: (1) You can drive however you like and have no problem so long as you don't cause a problem; and (2) You are responsible for yourself. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. In other words, take a bus or go to a country that better suits your needs. Don't try to change this one.

[katabeachbum]

Welcome to Thailand! Don't ya love it?! :jap:

Yes, I f'ing love it! The last thing I want is a record-ruining, revenue gathering gestapo running around here "enforcing" the law. I seem to hear a lot of whiners begging for this. I left that back in the States and sure as hell don't want it here. Here, there are two rules: (1) You can drive however you like and have no problem so long as you don't cause a problem; and (2) You are responsible for yourself. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. In other words, take a bus or go to a country that better suits your needs. Don't try to change this one.

ad me to that list. I love driving and riding here :jap:

[BigBikeBKK]

Welcome to Thailand! Don't ya love it?! :jap:

Yes, I f'ing love it! The last thing I want is a record-ruining, revenue gathering gestapo running around here "enforcing" the law. I seem to hear a lot of whiners begging for this. I left that back in the States and sure as hell don't want it here. Here, there are two rules: (1) You can drive however you like and have no problem so long as you don't cause a problem; and (2) You are responsible for yourself. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. In other words, take a bus or go to a country that better suits your needs. Don't try to change this one.

ad me to that list. I love driving and riding here :jap:

+1! :jap:

[Hili]

once i got hit by a motorcycle while crossing the street, the driver just drove away. You wanna sue him? Happy hunting......

Just cover yourself with a good health and bike insurance; for the others karma will take care of them......

[katabeachbum]

once i got hit by a motorcycle while crossing the street, the driver just drove away. You wanna sue him? Happy hunting......

Just cover yourself with a good health and bike insurance; for the others karma will take care of them......

hehe

in 2003 a kid riding Sonic ran into my car in Phuket town. a Police officer was sitting next to me, he radioed the bikes info and as my car was stuck in traffic he followed bike on foot, armed. Never caught the biker

had 5 of these within one year of owning this brand new car, caught none, at that time no self deductibel, so fixed car on Insurance, sold it and got a new one

as i have been doing every year since

[ajarnyai]

Yes, I f'ing love it! The last thing I want is a record-ruining, revenue gathering gestapo running around here "enforcing" the law. I seem to hear a lot of whiners begging for this. I left that back in the States and sure as hell don't want it here. Here, there are two rules: (1) You can drive however you like and have no problem so long as you don't cause a problem; and (2) You are responsible for yourself. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. In other words, take a bus or go to a country that better suits your needs. Don't try to change this one.

quoted TongueThaied

So you're saying you're willing to simply forgive an unlicensed, no insurance carrying person who is driving on the wrong side of the road and hit you? You're must be a saint.

Do you think I'm trying to change Thailand, by wanting punishment for someone who assaulted me with a deadly weapon (their motorcycle)? I'm not, I'm trying protect myself and the rest of the my community, by not letting a very dangerous person continue to drive after they have obviously proven themselves to be such.

I must admit, I'm a little surprised by such cavalier attitudes toward this sort of thing. It seems to be part of the reason people drive like this, I do think if people pressed charges there might be less dangerous infractions. BTW, I'm sure a simple punch in the face in a bar fight would land someone in jail for at least 1 night.

Posted Yesterday, 15:27

OP what are you going to do if you put some one in hospital? will you step up and pay good will for loss of income and wreck less riding? What happens if the patient decides to pursue you to the ends of the earth for an "accident"

quoted zorro1

You mentioned "wreck less riding" and "an accident". Those are not exactly the same circumstances as driving on the wrong side of the road.

Doing that, is just like tossing a brick out a 3rd story window. Sure, you don't intend on hurting anyone, but you know if you hit someone you definitely will. There may not be a rule or law against such a thing, but I'm sure you would go to jail for that. There is a clear rule and law about in which direction you should drive. It was not an "accident" it was done deliberately. The point of my post is not asking about collecting monetary damages, but someone going to jail for this offense. A minimum of 3-6 months in jail would satisfy me. I'll have my own insurance to take care of the damages.

Posted Yesterday, 09:35

Every vehicle with a valid tax sticker carrys Por Or Bor, compulsory Insurance, which is limited to cover your medical treatment up to max 50k baht.

More than that is extremely difficult to get, as you really cant sew a broke day worker or housewife, and doing so costs you 50-100k baht in legal fees and still ends with zero baht outcome. If the other party is in breach of traffic rules, and you have at least 2 witnesses supporting that, you can have Police lock him/her up until they have paid, but as they find no money you will need to decide if you want them to remain in jail or not

In addition, riding a 100k bike, you should have your own Insurance covering you and your bike

Writing this I am looking at a 60 yo mans drivers license here at my desk. He hit my car with his (illegal) samlor while overtaking me on the yellow centerfied on a 4 lane road. My car was not moving. He promised to pay the 8k baht repair, but thats 6 months ago. His drivers lisence was issued 40 years ago, photo is a schoolboy, and it dissolves every time I touch it.................... He is a pore day worker. Learning from Thai culture, I have decided to not contact him again

quoted Katabeachbum

I sounds like your own insurance would pay for the damages, it was an accident, and stupid on at that, but since you were not hurt, I can understand why you let it go. I guess it's the putting my life at jeopardy part that makes me want jail time for the reckless driver.

Lastly,

from what I've read from you all so far, there doesn't seem to be criminal charges you could file for driving on the wrong side of the road. It's all about who pays for what and how much. I read a story about a couple guys that got arrested for animal cruelty. They were transporting a large number of dogs in poor conditions. I know TIT, but I can't believe there would be animal cruelty laws, and not criminal negligence or reckless endangerment laws.

Does it all boil down to local police refusing to enforce the law, even after a complain was made?

[thaicbr]

"Does it all boil down to local police refusing to enforce the law, even after a complain was made? "

Yes and No. If you have witnesses to the accident then the Police will often do something. But that is normally telling the other party how much to pay you. And honestly even IF it all went to court the daily salary paid would be minimum salary (at the moment in bkk that is 220b a day) so it's not worth all the hassle.

It's very hard to convince a police man that riding down the wrong way on the road is illegal when he has just done that to get to the accident scene while NOT wearing a helmet and having a faulty tail light. All you can do is follow Kata's advice and make sure YOU have insured YOURSELF both the bike and you.

[jchfriis]

As far as I understand Thai "law", it goes something like this for us farangs: It is always your fault, because if you were not here it would not have happened.

[BigBikeBKK]

Dear Ajarnyai,

Honestly mate, it's the Thai way and it isn't going to change any time soon.

If it stresses you out so much why don't you sell the bike and take a bus / songtaew / taxi / buy a car, etc?

Your concept of "justice" is completely irrelevant here. :jap:

Ride On!

Tony