Why The Hate

[Berkshire]

Thais have seen farangs, white people for more than 20 years wlaking up and down on sukhumvit and gradually also spreading out in the rest of the country, still they see no difference whatsoever.

I think it is more to their own disadvantage than ours.

As a generality, Thais are just not an intellectually curious people.

That is a rather ethnocentric point-of-view, don't you think? What you're saying is that Thais aren't curious about things that YOU think they should be curious about. Are Americans not intellectually curious because we tend to group all "Asians" into one category of peoples? And "Hispanics?"

To put it another way, don't you find farangs in Thailand lacking in intellectual curiosity? I mean, there are large numbers of expats in Thailand who don't even bother to learn the local language in the country in which they reside, not to mention the culture, customs, history, so on. So by your definition, farangs in Thailand are just not an intellectually curious people....?

[canuckamuck]

Thais have seen farangs, white people for more than 20 years wlaking up and down on sukhumvit and gradually also spreading out in the rest of the country, still they see no difference whatsoever.

I think it is more to their own disadvantage than ours.

As a generality, Thais are just not an intellectually curious people.

That is a rather ethnocentric point-of-view, don't you think? What you're saying is that Thais aren't curious about things that YOU think they should be curious about. Are Americans not intellectually curious because we tend to group all "Asians" into one category of peoples? And "Hispanics?"

To put it another way, don't you find farangs in Thailand lacking in intellectual curiosity? I mean, there are large numbers of expats in Thailand who don't even bother to learn the local language in the country in which they reside, not to mention the culture, customs, history, so on. So by your definition, farangs in Thailand are just not an intellectually curious people....?

I think it is more than just Americans that find that Thais,for the most part, are lacking in intellectual curiosity. IMO Thai culture does not readily reward new lines of thinking and there is a great emphasis on repeating what others have done.

The same is probably not as true for Thais with great resources.

As for farangs, Thailand has acquired keepers and losers. You can decide for yourself what percentage of each are represented.

Edited November 17, 2011 by canuckamuck

[mataus101]

many people complain when thai say farang, everyone here is using the word.

we are farang, what should they call us, hey you non thai man. unless they add keenok to the end, who cares.

[F1fanatic]

many people complain when thai say farang, everyone here is using the word.

we are farang, what should they call us, hey you non thai man. unless they add keenok to the end, who cares.

Why should they shout anything at us?

Amazingly I never heard anyone shout 'hey you foreigner' when in the UK. In fact I never heard anyone actually interested to comment on a 'foreigner'.

[slapout]

many people complain when thai say farang, everyone here is using the word.

we are farang, what should they call us, hey you non thai man. unless they add keenok to the end, who cares.

Having visited the wife's village for funerals, weddings, family visit, looking after the farms, etc, for the past couple decades, I have heard farang used to denote me when noticed by locals, those who have had close contact with our children and myself, in a social way, often call me 'daddy'. A few call me uncle and some, probably some much worse, I really could care less as long as they call me to meals and toddy time in a timely manner.

[GooEng]

many people complain when thai say farang, everyone here is using the word.

we are farang, what should they call us, hey you non thai man. unless they add keenok to the end, who cares.

Why should they shout anything at us?

Amazingly I never heard anyone shout 'hey you foreigner' when in the UK. In fact I never heard anyone actually interested to comment on a 'foreigner'.

true, in britain it's now a crime on a par with wearing baby seal fur-lined rhino horn boots to make any reference to a person's origins or ethnicity when refering to them, unless of course you go the american route and use terms like "african american" which while it may be acceptable is a nonsense term that seems no more correct than "black american".

why not just accept that africans are black, scandanavians are pale and blonde, arabs are olive skinned and allow these natural features to be used without the inferred racism the politico-correcto-loco squade insist exists.

the world's gone mad, i tell ya!

[StreetCowboy]

Thais have seen farangs, white people for more than 20 years wlaking up and down on sukhumvit and gradually also spreading out in the rest of the country, still they see no difference whatsoever.

I think it is more to their own disadvantage than ours.

As a generality, Thais are just not an intellectually curious people.

As a generality, from a Thai middle class point of view, foreigners are rude, loud, uneducated, sex obsessed and cheap.

Not exactly the kind of people you want to associate with.

As a generality of course ...

I'm glad I don't compromise people's stereotypes. It would seem rude to contradict someone's inherited beliefs.

SC

[GooEng]

Thais have seen farangs, white people for more than 20 years wlaking up and down on sukhumvit and gradually also spreading out in the rest of the country, still they see no difference whatsoever.

I think it is more to their own disadvantage than ours.

As a generality, Thais are just not an intellectually curious people.

As a generality, from a Thai middle class point of view, foreigners are rude, loud, uneducated, sex obsessed and cheap.

Not exactly the kind of people you want to associate with.

As a generality of course ...

I'm glad I don't compromise people's stereotypes. It would seem rude to contradict someone's inherited beliefs.

SC

interesting point you've made there jurgenG - so, the foreigners being described as rude, loud, etc, by middle class thais are foreign men, right?

cos it's just as true that as a generality from a large portion of the farang middle class point of view (in here anyway) thais are rude, loud, sex obsessed and cheap.

who's wrong?

Edited November 17, 2011 by GooEng

[elgato]

When it stops being fun it's time to move on.

[xthAi76s]

It's a weird world. Let me compare ex-pats in Japan and Thailand.

In Japan, ex-pats tend to defend Japan to the hilt. They'll say things like "yeah I know I work 12 hours a day, and commute 2 hours to work, 2 hours back, yeah I know my wife is uncommunicative because we all live these rigid roles, yeah I know there's no real green spaces in Tokyo, nor do I have the time to even visit those little pockets of greenery anyway, yeah I know Japan is a protocol-driven straight-jacket society, but I'm err...getting used to it...give me another 10 years and I'll be fully assimilated". There's this kind of no-matter-what-I'm-going-to-like-it-even-if-I-hate-it attitude. I think they go over-board trying to defend a country that puts people under a lot of real pressure.

In Thailand, it's almost the opposite with ex-pats. Despite living in a huge and varied country to explore and live in - ex-pats tend to congregate in "trouble spots" like Sukhumvit Rd, Pattaya, Patong where they get ripped off, and complain about it. Even if they don't get ripped off, they absorb the palpable nasty attitudes a fair number of people display in these areas, and consider that such areas must be a microcosm of Thailand itself. Their cynicism can only be explained by the company they keep, and where they live. How many ex-pats in Thailand live outside of these areas? Those that do then often complain about feeling isolated. This is a country where a LOT is possible for the average ex-pat. It's one of the few countries on this planet that has a relatively high standard of living while allowing an ex-pat with some savings to retire here (those that complain about costs, get out of Pattaya, Patong etc). It seems a lot of ex-pats in Thailand are like those ex-pats in Spain that read English newspapers, hang around fellow-countrymen most of the time, watch English telly etc. They're not REALLY living in their host country.

+1 on the Japan vs Thailand expat differences.

I think part of the reason for these differences would be attributable to the differences in the average type of expats each country attracts. Also, it's really partially due to the countries, right? We are comparing France (Japan) to Nigeria (Thailand). I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, as I happen to like many things about Thailand. But, the fact remains that we are comparing two vastly different societies, and while Japan is super difficult to survive in (for most non-Japanese, including any other Asians), people generally respect the Japanese way of life, how they conduct themselves, etc. I think the same is more often not the case in Thailand as they have some way to go yet in terms of respectable qualities on the whole.

I am one who absolutely loves Japan, and I love Thailand, albeit in a much different way. Specifically, most of what I don't like about Thailand, I also like, and the feature responsible is the lack of caring about things. Thailand is a laid back, 'mai bpen rai' (some would say lazy) place. I suspect that is why many of us like it here. Unfortunately, but necessarily, that is the same feature many of us (myself included) bemoan when it doesn't favor our particular scenario. When it comes to respect, I of course respect the people, culture and rules of my host country -- Thailand, but if you left it up to me, politely, I would certainly not model myself after most of the national character. If you flip it around, and if I were living in Japan, I would certainly strive to model certain aspects of my character after certain Japanese societal traits. Japanese work ethic, food quality standards, Shinto Buddhism (even though I am not in any way religious), real politeness, etc. But, Japan does obviously have problems like anywhere else, but I happen to like more of their national character type qualities than I do with respect to the Thais.

I suspect this is some of the reason.

[JurgenG]

As a generality, Thais are just not an intellectually curious people.

As a generality, from a Thai middle class point of view, foreigners are rude, loud, uneducated, sex obsessed and cheap.

Not exactly the kind of people you want to associate with.

As a generality of course ...

I'm glad I don't compromise people's stereotypes. It would seem rude to contradict someone's inherited beliefs.

SC

interesting point you've made there jurgenG - so, the foreigners being described as rude, loud, etc, by middle class thais are foreign men, right?

cos it's just as true that as a generality from a large portion of the farang middle class point of view (in here anyway) thais are rude, loud, sex obsessed and cheap.

who's wrong?

Who's is wrong ?

Personally I agree with the Thais. I feel comfortable in my middle class village and I tend to avoid areas where foreigners likes to congregate.

But it's true that an important number of posters here (but far from all) are involved in Thai bashing. What can I say ? Misery loves company ....

Edited November 18, 2011 by JurgenG

[Jingthing]

Thais have seen farangs, white people for more than 20 years wlaking up and down on sukhumvit and gradually also spreading out in the rest of the country, still they see no difference whatsoever.

I think it is more to their own disadvantage than ours.

As a generality, Thais are just not an intellectually curious people.

That is a rather ethnocentric point-of-view, don't you think? What you're saying is that Thais aren't curious about things that YOU think they should be curious about. Are Americans not intellectually curious because we tend to group all "Asians" into one category of peoples? And "Hispanics?"

To put it another way, don't you find farangs in Thailand lacking in intellectual curiosity? I mean, there are large numbers of expats in Thailand who don't even bother to learn the local language in the country in which they reside, not to mention the culture, customs, history, so on. So by your definition, farangs in Thailand are just not an intellectually curious people....?

I stand by my assertion, Thailand is a deeply anti-intellectual culture by any standard. Deep thinking is not only not encouraged, it is considered a serious illness.

I will quote the book

Very Thai, Everyday Popular Culture here

Thailand keeps its ancient ways, imbued with Buddhism, hierarchy, spirit beliefs. Indirectness avoids confrontation, leaving much unfathomable to Western reasoning, so asking questions is very un-Thai. Thais disarmingly respond "mai pen rai" -- the answer is "never mind".

[F1fanatic]

many people complain when thai say farang, everyone here is using the word.

we are farang, what should they call us, hey you non thai man. unless they add keenok to the end, who cares.

Why should they shout anything at us?

Amazingly I never heard anyone shout 'hey you foreigner' when in the UK. In fact I never heard anyone actually interested to comment on a 'foreigner'.

true, in britain it's now a crime on a par with wearing baby seal fur-lined rhino horn boots to make any reference to a person's origins or ethnicity when refering to them, unless of course you go the american route and use terms like "african american" which while it may be acceptable is a nonsense term that seems no more correct than "black american".

why not just accept that africans are black, scandanavians are pale and blonde, arabs are olive skinned and allow these natural features to be used without the inferred racism the politico-correcto-loco squade insist exists.

the world's gone mad, i tell ya!

You're missing the point...

Back in the UK people don't shout in public 'foreigner' about anyone (other than a few racists who like to bandy about the 'n' word when they're looking for trouble)- 'cos its not only rude, but why the need? If they don't know you they aren't interested and, if they do, they will call you by your name.

It has nothing to do with political correctness.

[92302]

There is a lovely old lady with a false leg that walks the sois of Pattaya with her son collecting garbage, she means no malice at all when she shouts hello farang to just about everyone she passes.

However put a white English version of her in Deptford Market walking around shouting hello blacky to everyone she would end up arrested or beaten or both, the two countries may as well be two worlds apart.

[Capealava]

Partly just adaptation to a foreign culture, the struggle to understand, and the like. It's mostly not intended to be mean-spirited I think. Most of us understand that if Thais were to come and live in the West they would have tons to gripe about too- and would need to vent.

I complain about Thailand but choose to live here because it is better than any alternatives I've seen. It's not a black/white thing- no culture is hell and no place is heaven. Thailand is, in the end, just a great place with a lot of problems. But it's got fewer problems that affect me directly than my home country and is a great alternative.

After ten years here - I think your answer is the most reasonable. Thailand and Thai culture leaves a lot to be desired, but in the end we chose to be here each for our own particular reasons. There is a whole world out there and here we are. After years of living here the dreamy nature of Thailand wears off and you begin to see more clearly. Expats in general may be somewhat addicted the adversity of living without a culture. It is obvious we can never be part of Thai culture yet we left our own behind.

[thehelmsman]

First I want to say I'm honored and humbly proud to post my words next to such brilliant minds. I have a good lady and a newborn baby girl. We live in a small village way up north. The word farang doesn't faze me at all. don't understand what all the hoop-la is about. What else are they supposed to call me. Nobody yells out farang to get my attention. At the market when I would buy something the old lady would yell for her grandson and the word farang was used because he could speak a little english. So, I learned numbers in thai and the words for what I wanted. Now I can do business directly with the old lady. Makes life much more pleasant.

[TigerWan]

It's vicious circle, hard to not hate back when one is hated as a matter of nationalism.

When I first moved here, long- timers told me to not trust Thais, etc etc etc , I thought they were just racist or cynics, but after about well,... it took about 4 months of getting screwed over and the Thais constant inability to tell the truth for me to change my opinion of Thai as the " Oh, so polite and charming.." to my current opinion, which is a 180 degree deflection and far too strong to post here.

The forums are full of sexually obsessed men whining about predatory, whoring Thai women, somehow these traits are charming in the Asian female but hated in the western women.

Whole different set of standards in play when the constant and overwhelming male need for genitalia stimulation is involved. Lying is cute, conceit charming, subterfuge suddenly a prized element.

Maybe I can understand the beginning of why Thais have no respect when so many of the worst examples of western masculinity are desperate to reside here.

Shouldn't you really be asking "why do the Thai's dislike farangs" so much, farang pricing, farang are second class people, etc. etc. etc.?

I myself find this in about 20 -25% of Thais

This term really shows the depth of the racism against Caucasians here, perfectly acceptable to call people by the colour of their skin, in their presence even. " Farang "

When they do it to me I've started referring to them with a slang term right back - first they giggle , then do the blank- eyed- blink thing. A few actually comprehend my point, but most are utterly incapable of regarding me as an equal human, and not just " Whitey ATM "

[TigerWan]

Just use a different word, say like, " blackie." If your so charming neighbors were shrieking " blackie" when a black man was around, you honestly think that is OK?

Referring to people in their presence, with a third person term denoting skin colour, is as racist as it gets.

It does not mean foreigner, ask a Thai if Japanese or other Asians are "Farang" answer is no, farang is slang for Causcasian.

First I want to say I'm honored and humbly proud to post my words next to such brilliant minds. I have a good lady and a newborn baby girl. We live in a small village way up north. The word farang doesn't faze me at all. don't understand what all the hoop-la is about. What else are they supposed to call me. Nobody yells out farang to get my attention. At the market when I would buy something the old lady would yell for her grandson and the word farang was used because he could speak a little english. So, I learned numbers in thai and the words for what I wanted. Now I can do business directly with the old lady. Makes life much more pleasant.

[ludditeman]

The word farang doesn't faze me at all. don't understand what all the hoop-la is about. What else are they supposed to call me. Nobody yells out farang to get my attention. At the market when I would buy something the old lady would yell for her grandson and the word farang was used because he could speak a little english.

They could call you by your name, but hang-on, that would mean they though of you as a person, instead of a thing.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ludditeman

[TigerWan]

i dont feel we are seen as second class at all.

If so why is it such a status symbol to be with a westerner.

thai people are so laid back they don't care about much at all.

I also don't see farang as a rascist word whatsoever, they mean no malice when using it.

Neither did people who used the term " Nigger" for generations in the USA. I'm sure quite a few would argue they were not racist at all.

I really disagree with this;

I also don't see farang as a rascist word whatsoever, they mean no malice when using it.

Western Caucasians are second class and I think it is actually such a stigma to mate with one that only second and third tiered Thais will be with them. Look at the skin colour of the women with westerners, none of them are that hi-so chinese whitey- white so utterly sought after in all the ads and such. It is a very class and race conscience society and " Farang" is not welcome, except to leave funds behind.

I am also not getting my views from people prone to being liars and two faced in the quest for financial security.

Highly educated, high society Thais with that all so important white complexion are not hanging with "Farang" that I've ever seen.

[AngelofDeath]

I thought Thai people are very loving, considerate and kind people. People around the world who have visited Thailand can attest to that. Is this a reality check for anyone who think otherwise?

[TigerWan]

^ Naivete, wishful thinking or most likely utterly P - Whipped would be my explanation for how anyone can see Thais as anything other than racists that have a real aversion to " whitey "

[ludditeman]

^ Naivete, wishful thinking or most likely utterly P - Whipped would be my explanation for how anyone can see Thais as anything other than racists that have a real aversion to " whitey "

I put it down to stupidity.

Lots of people never understand what is going on around them, and are incapable of learning.

One thing in common the 'it's not racist' and 'it doesn't bother me' brigade share is a complete inability to speak or understand the Thai language.

[TigerWan]

They're just fooling themselves. I disagree about thh language, I don't need to understand the words to get the gist of the hostility. I made a decision to not learn anymore than basic Thai when I realized it was simply too infuriating to understand what many were saying.

I simply find it incredible that being referred to in a racist term is OK, as long as Thais are doing it.

It has to be all about the sex.

Edited January 1, 2012 by TigerWan

[mataus101]

The use of the Farang word is a culteral habit, they here it growing up, you see little children using it, it does not mean they hate.

people are being to paranoid, and comparing it to nigger is foolish, look how African Americans were treated by whites, farang is just a word with no malice behind it.

people also say hiso thais dont mix, Thats BS, my wifes family is richer then mine, most my thai friend are doing ok, they range from the poorest of the poor to Tv presenters and government officials, even police officers.

some are extremly close friends very close, they do use my name, but will often say farang as its easier for them, no big deal.

Edited January 1, 2012 by mataus101

[robblok]

The use of the Farang word is a culteral habit, they here it growing up, you see little children using it, it does not mean they hate.

people are being to paranoid, and comparing it to nigger is foolish, look how African Americans were treated by whites, farang is just a word with no malice behind it.

people also say hiso thais dont mix, Thats BS, my wifes family is richer then mine, most my thai friend are doing ok, they range from the poorest of the poor to Tv presenters and government officials, even police officers.

some are extremly close friends very close, they do use my name, but will often say farang as its easier for them, no big deal.

I would get pretty pissed of if real friends would start calling me farang because its easier. If they can't even be bothered to learn your name they are not friends. Just imagine if you start calling them Kon Dam. For people that don't know me well or my name i could not care less.

Anyway some people have seen hatred, i personally haven't. I did see how they cheat foreigners and give the advantage to Thais but that is not the same as hate.

[Kilgore Trout]

Because its their right to; genius, just as its your right not to listen.

Perhaps you could relocate to N. Korea; I hear they have a promising new leader who most likely agrees with your opinions on free speech.

Pack your bags!

[thehelmsman]

This is ridiculous. Noone directly says: hey farang when speaking directly with me. The villagers do use my name as they learn it. And, how this discussion starts talking about Blacks is absurd. Just like in America people say African American. Because a person has dark skin he's an African American is equally ridiculous. They are black - that's it. From now on I'll stay away from the Haters.

[TigerWan]

T Helmsman..

Do you refer to black men by a slang term in their presence? In your own country , ( presumably you are not Thai) would a bank teller shriek across the bank , " hey, ...Blackie here wants to know if it left its passbook here", even while holding the person's ID ?

Would you even mention the race, or even nationality?

Hey the French Guy... The White Guy , See where I'm getting? It's as rude and simple minded as it gets.

And yes, it is what farang is.

Of course it is racist. As racist and xenophobic as the FBA and immigration policies are.

Edited January 1, 2012 by TigerWan

[Ulysses G.]

Do you refer to black men by a slang term in their presence? In your own country ,

It is not racist. We are not in our own country and the language, customs and proper manners are different here.