90 Year Lease

[bitewhentested]

hi tv members im interested in buying a house iv lived in thailand for about 6 years i know the pitfalls of ownership i have no interest in a paper company or

having my property in a thai persons name .

the only way i would consider buying property here is buy leasing the land from what i can gather seems the safest and easiest way either with a property already on the plot or build one

so any info from a tv member that has done this would be great

thanks enjoy your day

[elektrified]

You are misinformed. 90 year lease does not exist. Renting is the only way unless you take the risk of losing everything.

[bitewhentested]

well as i understand it i can lease the land over 30 years then there is an option to renew the lease another 2 times im in my late 30tys so the renewal is not important

if i buy a place for lets say 3 million baht and live in it for 30 years that works out cheaper than renting a similar property plus i never really feel at home in rented property never really

feel its mine so to speak i own property here already condos but id like a garden and a bit of privacy i know nothing is set in stone in the land of smiles

so any tv member that is or has done this please give me your advice

please no ranting about being ripped off buy greedy bar girls as i said iv been here 6 years heard all the story's id like something positive if possible lol

the lease is my only option not rent iv owned property all my adult life home and overseas

enjoy your day

[bitewhentested]

also if you know of a nice mooban or a nice area within lets say 15 mins from cm city with security yes i know security here is very hit and miss but

its better than nothing i dont have a problem with paying local police 1000 baht a month to keep an eye on my place i think its possible in chiang mai ?

thanks enjoy your day

[Lobo4819]

Check with a good attorney. There are advantages to a lease, along with disadvantages. A usufruct is another option that in many cases can give you more protection and control and a little less expense. Many of us here are in the bottom of the 8th inning and will not see the expiration of the first 30 years, so it becomes important to do some estate planning - and try to look ahead for various "what-if" contingencies.

[bitewhentested]

thanks lobo something positive just what i wanted some good advice im single have no children so what happens in 30 years is not in the least important

i dont need to worry about weather i can pass it on to family as i dont have any just want a nice little house peaceful sit and read my book and have a gin and tonic lol

thanks again

[alfieconn]

thanks lobo something positive just what i wanted some good advice im single have no children so what happens in 30 years is not in the least important

i dont need to worry about weather i can pass it on to family as i dont have any just want a nice little house peaceful sit and read my book and have a gin and tonic lol

thanks again

As a matter of interest, does any poster know the amount a house should be discounted if taken on a 30 year lease rather than buying outright, i would imagine that there is some sort of calculation working on an average interest rate over the 30 years plus the house price appreciating.

Edited November 9, 2011 by alfieconn

[sfokevin]

As a matter of interest, does any poster know the amount a house should be discounted if taken on a 30 year lease rather than buying outright, i would imagine that there is some sort of calculation working on an average interest rate over the 30 years plus the house price appreciating.

I doubt any Thai would consider any such discounting model...

You would have better luck suggesting the house may be haunted...

[xylophone]

You can easily work out the numbers so that you can see the pros and cons of renting vs leasing cost wise. I did exactly that when I bought a house here and for many of the reasons you did.

I sold it when I realised that the Thai Gov't/local officials can make life very uncomfortable for expats, at a whim, and having money tied up here would restrict any future movements for me.

Now rent, have my funds invested overseas and can pack a suitcase and leave the country at a moments notice......all cashed up and ready to try a new country/life if necessary.

Still enjoying Thailand but have the freedom to move as and when it pleases me.

[moe666]

Who do you plan on leasing from for 30 years and why should they put their property into such a situation considering enflation and there family may decide they want to sell. Buy a condo.

[Contractor]

thanks lobo something positive just what i wanted some good advice im single have no children so what happens in 30 years is not in the least important

i dont need to worry about weather i can pass it on to family as i dont have any just want a nice little house peaceful sit and read my book and have a gin and tonic lol

thanks again

In your case, a 30 year lease would be fine maybe, and I know people who live happily in such circumstances.

I do not know anyone who has lived in Thailand long enough to actually test the renewing of their lease for another 30 years. What I do know is that there are plently of lawyers and agents who will take money from you promising that this can happen. Also, we do not know what the property ownership laws will be like in the future, so there is always a risk.

If you are not fussed about who gets the house when you pass on, then I am sure you can relax, enjoying your book and a G&T! Good luck.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Contractor

[rickthailand]

hi your situation is a bit ;ike mine i am in my early 40s single no children etc. i just wanted to have a own home where i can

live until i die, i used the userfruct method so i can do with the property what i want until the day i die. It cost me 10.000baht for

a lawyer to draw up the usurfruct and accompany me to the land office. than there was the price of registering the usurfruct

on the chanokee which i can not remember maybe around 12.000(maybe tea money not sure and i dont care)

as i dont have children i dont care what happens after i die, (i put the property in a thai friends name whom i have known for 10 years(no sexual re;ation)

and i will be happy for him to get my house once i die. As for the comment about being able to just get up and leave in the

userfruct it says i can rent ik out to anyone so i can leave when i want to if i chooce to do that.

be aware to only invest money in a house that you can walk away from

hope this helps

rick

[hml367]

I believe that the owner of the land/house is supposed to pay income tax on the amounts shown in the lease. One thing to consider in this regard is that some times the lease is drawn up with lower than actual amounts paid so that the tax to record the lease are lower and the income tax is lower is the person pays it. This lower amount then would be become the value in a dispute.

MSPain

[jonwilly]

Much of Thai Law is based on British Law.

A year or so ago a UK trained Lawyer commented in the Ex Pat newsletter that in HIS OPINION, for successive Leases to be legal the ownership of the property would have to revert to the original owner or his descendants, for at lease 24 hrs to be legal and a new lease then obtained.

A 30 year lease is legal as for 60 years in the form of 2 by 30 years ? Lawyers territory.

john

As my lawyer said to me Buy a Condo, the Thai Government then says You own it.

[hml367]

Buying a condo may be ok. I have never bought one so I don't have any experience. However, condominium projects have their own set of possible problems. I would guess leasing land/house and buying a condo would be equal in terms of the number of problems which can occur. I think the majority of either one are more positive than negative. That, of course, is just my opinion.

MSPain

[bitewhentested]

all good and useful advice ill look into it in more detail i would never spend money on something like a house here if i losing it was a huge blow

iv owned a clp on condos in thailand very easy and little risk involved but im getting a bit fed up with it need some space

my parents have some very wealthy thai friends in bkk they earn in a month what my house would be worth maybe i could put it in there name it would not be worth the hassle for them

to try and steel it im not sure how that would work but im sure there's a way round it

thanks enjoy your day

[ramrod711]

hi your situation is a bit ;ike mine i am in my early 40s single no children etc. i just wanted to have a own home where i can

live until i die, i used the userfruct method so i can do with the property what i want until the day i die. It cost me 10.000baht for

a lawyer to draw up the usurfruct and accompany me to the land office. than there was the price of registering the usurfruct

on the chanokee which i can not remember maybe around 12.000(maybe tea money not sure and i dont care)

as i dont have children i dont care what happens after i die, (i put the property in a thai friends name whom i have known for 10 years(no sexual re;ation)

and i will be happy for him to get my house once i die. As for the comment about being able to just get up and leave in the

userfruct it says i can rent ik out to anyone so i can leave when i want to if i chooce to do that.

be aware to only invest money in a house that you can walk away from

hope this helps

rick

the last bit is the best advice you're going to get, look at it as money spent, not invested. i had a 30 year lease registered at the land office and eventually married the lease holder. i'm told that thai law made the lease invalid once we were married. not sure if that's true and i don't care

[Dante99]

my parents have some very wealthy thai friends in bkk they earn in a month what my house would be worth maybe i could put it in there name it would not be worth the hassle for them

to try and steel it im not sure how that would work but im sure there's a way round it

They would not have to steal it because they would already own it, so no hassle at all, just tell their lawyer to toss you out, finished.

But then what are daddy's connections for if not to circumvent the law?

[bitewhentested]

they are very nice people educated overseas thai ruling elite i spose would be the term i cant see why someone would befriend my parents over the last 5 years

just to do me out of a house i dont even have yet and as i said they probably earn more in a month than my house would be worth in fact there car is worth more than my house would be lol

but again not sure how that would work also they live in bkk so be a bit of a big favour for them to come to cm just to help me out

id much rather find a different way one thing im glad about on this post the ease of the advice i have received all very helpful and im grateful thank you

and no thai bashing amazed lol

thanks enjoy your day

[scorecard]

Who do you plan on leasing from for 30 years and why should they put their property into such a situation considering enflation and there family may decide they want to sell. Buy a condo.

Good points.

Also, OP, you mentioned earlier that you have no family etc., but, with all respect, is there the possibility that you might well suddenly get involved, regardless of age, therefore is there a need for flexibility to allow for unforeseen future scenarios? I'm guessing (repeat guessing) that a 30 yr lease would lock you very solidly into one picture - 30 years is a long time.

Edited November 10, 2011 by scorecard

[Rama]

Thai law specifies that leases can be made for up to 30 years. It does not say anything about lease options. The law was made less than 30 years ago, so whether an additional 30 year option is enforceable has not been tested in Thai court. Most CM lawyers will steer you to doing a Usfurct lease. This type of lease only gives you the right to use the land until you die. It does not allow you to sell your house at a later date. Recommend a 30 year lease and put in the clause that you have the right to transfer, give, or sell your leasehold rights without the leasor's approval. Make sure the lease is put on the back of the chanote. The lease amount can be 1000 baht for 30 years.

[bitewhentested]

Thai law specifies that leases can be made for up to 30 years. It does not say anything about lease options. The law was made less than 30 years ago, so whether an additional 30 year option is enforceable has not been tested in Thai court. Most CM lawyers will steer you to doing a Usfurct lease. This type of lease only gives you the right to use the land until you die. It does not allow you to sell your house at a later date. Recommend a 30 year lease and put in the clause that you have the right to transfer, give, or sell your leasehold rights without the leasor's approval. Make sure the lease is put on the back of the chanote. The lease amount can be 1000 baht for 30 years.

good advice you seem to know what your talking about thank you

[uptheos]

Thai law specifies that leases can be made for up to 30 years. It does not say anything about lease options. The law was made less than 30 years ago, so whether an additional 30 year option is enforceable has not been tested in Thai court. Most CM lawyers will steer you to doing a Usfurct lease. This type of lease only gives you the right to use the land until you die. It does not allow you to sell your house at a later date. Recommend a 30 year lease and put in the clause that you have the right to transfer, give, or sell your leasehold rights without the leasor's approval. Make sure the lease is put on the back of the chanote. The lease amount can be 1000 baht for 30 years.

good advice you seem to know what your talking about thank you

With a usufruct you can lease the house/land to someone else i.e. your children, which doesn't end on your demise

.

http://www.thailawon...agreements.html

Scroll down to 'THE USUFRUCTARY CAN LEASE THE LAND/HOUSE

Edited November 10, 2011 by uptheos

[sfokevin]

With a usufruct you can lease the house/land to someone else i.e. your children, which doesn't end on your demise

.

http://www.thailawon...agreements.html

Scroll down to 'THE USUFRUCTARY CAN LEASE THE LAND/HOUSE

As an added precaution I would have a clause in the original Usufruct contract that the Chanote holder must allow and help facilitate any future 30 year lease registration with the Land Department...

A Farang Usufruct Holder showing up at the Land Department alone may find a bureaucratic mai dai when trying to add the additional 30 year lease to the Chanote without the Thai owner there to agree...

[rickthailand]

With a usufruct you can lease the house/land to someone else i.e. your children, which doesn't end on your demise

.

http://www.thailawon...agreements.html

Scroll down to 'THE USUFRUCTARY CAN LEASE THE LAND/HOUSE

As an added precaution I would have a clause in the original Usufruct contract that the Chanote holder must allow and help facilitate any future 30 year lease registration with the Land Department...

A Farang Usufruct Holder showing up at the Land Department alone may find a bureaucratic mai dai when trying to add the additional 30 year lease to the Chanote without the Thai owner there to agree...

a usurfruct can also be for life so no need to extend

[uptheos]

A Farang Usufruct Holder showing up at the Land Department alone may find a bureaucratic mai dai when trying to add the additional 30 year lease to the Chanote without the Thai owner there to agree...

Take a lawyer that is well known to the land office with you.

[jonwilly]

uptheos

Shirley no one buys a property without a Local Lawyer !

john

No one could be that Rich.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

uptheos

Shirley no one buys a property without a Local Lawyer !

I wouldn't. I would figure it out for myself. Lawyers are for going to court, but some Farang want to use them for just about any errant. (Like car registration, visas, work permits, starting a company and Gawd knows what else)

Also note that we're talking leasing property, not buying.

[uptheos]

uptheos

Shirley no one buys a property without a Local Lawyer !

I'm talking about having support at land office regarding the lease, not buying a property.

Forget your glasses?

[uptheos]

DP Deleted

Edited November 11, 2011 by uptheos