Tourist Visa To Retirement Visa

[qdinthailand]

I'm trying to wade through the voluminous - and confusing - topics and replies related to Retirement visas. Here's my situation, and questions - hopefully I can get some concise responses to questions.

I am an American citizen, on U.S. passport.

I just returned from Vientianne with a double entry tourist visa.

I am 61 now, not officially 'retired' in the U.S. I will begin drawing Social Security at age 62+ which will provide roughly 1/2 of my 'Thai required' annual income requirements.

I can provide proof of 800,000baht in retirement savings, via statements from U.S. brokerage accounts (which I believe have to have an attached notary form issued/stamped at U.S. consulate).

I would like to remain in Thailand now - and through this process if possible.

After acquiring non-Imm. visa, I would open and transfer 800K baht into a Thai bank account for satisfying Thailand law.

So my questions:

1) Is it possible to acquire a Retirment visa - non-Imm. O-A visa - being in Thailand on a tourist visa?

2) Can I do this in CM using U.S. consulate for supporting paperwork, using Immigration office at Airport for Thai paperwork processing?

If so, I believe I can figure out the paperwork requirements via this forum.

Or 3) will I have to leave Thailand to deal with this? If so, can I do it in Penang, Vientianne, or Kuala Lumpur?

Or 4) can I make application through Thai Consulate in Bangkok?

Thanks for replies.

[lopburi3]

1. No - such a visa would only be available in USA with medical and police checks.

2. You have no supporting paperwork - you must have 65k income or 800k in Thai bank account or combination. You have neither.

3. You need to deposit 800k in Thai bank account - once that is done you can visit immigration to change entry status to non immigrant for 2,000 baht and then after 60 days of money in account apply for one year extension of stay for retirement using TM.7 and payment of 1,900 baht. Alternatively you could likely obtain a single entry non immigrant O visa from a Consulate rather than change status at immigration.

[Jingthing]

You CAN do a change of visa status from TR to O (not O-A) at CM -- as part of a TWO STEP process with the second step being your annual extension of stay based on retirement.

This is done at the Thai immigration office.

O-A is only available in your home country. Don't worry, you don't need an O-A to retire.

Financial qualifications. For now as you don't have your pension you will need to do the 800K money in a Thai bank method. This money needs to be seasoned in the Thai bank account for TWO MONTHS for your first retirement extension.

Right now, you don't need to visit the consulate. Later, when you have social security, you can use them for your income letter and use the combo method, income letter plus bank account totaling 800K.

Please note. I just reread the OP and it isn't clear to me that you actually intend to reside in Chiang Mai. The retirement extension part must be done in the city of your Thai residence and you will be required to PROVE this residence. CM does do the change of visa status that I mentioned. However, not all Thai immigration offices do that. In case you are actually going to reside in a Thai locality that doesn't offer that service, the first step, change of visa status can be done in Bangkok or you could choose to obtain a single entry O in Laos or Malaysia (which you can get just by being over 50 with an intention to retire).

[qdinthailand]

You CAN do a change of visa status from TR to O (not O-A) at CM -- as part of a TWO STEP process with the second step being your annual extension of stay based on retirement.

This is done at the Thai immigration office.

O-A is only available in your home country. Don't worry, you don't need an O-A to retire.

Financial qualifications. For now as you don't have your pension you will need to do the 800K money in a Thai bank method. This money needs to be seasoned in the Thai bank account for TWO MONTHS for your first retirement extension.

Right now, you don't need to visit the consulate. Later, when you have social security, you can use them for your income letter and use the combo method, income letter plus bank account totaling 800K.

Excellent, Jingthing, thanks.

[Jingthing]

Excellent, Jingthing, thanks.

You're welcome. Please read the additional note in my edited post above about the locality of your Thai residence.

[Mario2008]

CM-immigration is not at the airport, there is an office between airport Plaza and the airport.

[wayned]

The above responses are spot on.

I would like to add the following. Since you are and American, like me, and you are going to apply for Social Security at age 62, you can start the paperwork process 3 months in advance. I did and it took 5 months to process. No matter what you read, the application must be processed through the SSA office in Manila, They are responsible for this area. In addition, if you are going to have your payments sent to Thailand you have to open a special account at Bangkok Bank to have them direct deposited. Bangko0k Bank is the only bank in Thailand that can receive SSA payments. The account must be in your name, you cannot have any ATM or internet access to it. You must go into a Branch with a copy of your passport and personally withdraw the funds It sounds like a pain, but it works great. The money is transfered on the 3rd of every month, internal deposits are on the 3rd no matter what your name is, and is available for pickup in the afternoon. You are sent an SMS message when it's available. I go in and withdraw the funds and deposit them directly into another account that has ATM and internet access. The US requires this so that your Thai wife or friend can't continue to withdraw the money long after you kick the bucket. I'm telling you this because Manila sent me the wrong in the beginning and the account that I opened didn't meet the requirements so the money sat in Bangkok Bank in New York for two months until I straightened it out. After the initial hickup everything has worked like clockwork for the past 5 years.

[lopburi3]

True on Bangkok Bank but suspect most people would be better served to keep a US bank account open for direct deposit and just transfer using domestic ACH transfers (Bangkok Bank again) as needed as this can be done on-line to normal Thai account and you keep a US bank card for on-line purchase or bills.

[wayned]

I have no family or address in the US, no address no bank account, so I never thought of it that way. I have a friend that uses his bank in Washington, but for some reason he can only withdraw a maximum of 7000 baht per day. I have both Visa and American Express issued in Thailand that I use for on-line purchases and pay all of my bills through the internet.

True on Bangkok Bank but suspect most people would be better served to keep a US bank account open for direct deposit and just transfer using domestic ACH transfers (Bangkok Bank again) as needed as this can be done on-line to normal Thai account and you keep a US bank card for on-line purchase or bills.

[smiling mantis]

1. No - such a visa would only be available in USA with medical and police checks.

This visa is available from your country of residence. I was a U.S. citizen who was residing in the Philippines and I was able to get a O-A from the embassy in Manila. That meant medical and police checks from the Philippines (NBI clearance in the latter case). The consular officer told me that proof was required that I was a long-term resident of the Philippines, though interestingly it was never actually inspected in my case.

I was able to use Bangkok Bank in the Philippines to show my 800,000B. Note that this is not technically the same as Bangkok Bank here in Thailand. The deposit had to be made in dollars, and when the visa was approved and I was in Thailand, I could only transfer the money to my newly opened foreign currency deposit account at Bangkok Bank in Thailand via wire transfer.

[qdinthailand]

Thanks all for the info.

I do plan on residing in CM.

[qdinthailand]

CM-immigration is not at the airport, there is an office between airport Plaza and the airport.

sorry - I guess for others, best to clarify. I just refer to that immigration office as 'airport immigration' when in fact, its the immigration office 'between the airports'.

[NancyL]

The OP should open a Thai bank account immediately to start "seasoning" the 800,000 baht for the 60 days needed to apply for a O visa. As mentioned, Bangkok Bank is a logical place to do this since they also can accept incoming SSA deposits transferred from the US gov't. Unfortunately, that 800,000 baht has to be in a Thai account, not an overseas account to apply for an O visa at CM Immigration.

To my knowledge most of the Bangkok Bank branches in CM will allow someone on a tourist visa to open an account, especially if they say they immediatly want to transfer in 800,000 baht to start down the road for an O visa. The branches at the two malls will definitely do this since they have many foreign customers. That account should solely be in the name of the OP -- joint accounts aren't accepted by Immigration.

We have Hubby's private pension direct deposited into Bangkok Bank NYC, where it shows up immediately in our joint Bangkok Bank account, blue passbook w/ATM card. His private pension issuer doesn't have any silly rules about having to direct deposit into a non-ATM, non-joint account. Frankly the SSA rule about direct deposit into Bangkok Bank has never made sense to me. When a foreigner dies in Thailand, their embassy/consulate is notified immediately. The American consulate will tell the SSA; there's no way a Thai wife/gf can just fail to notify the SSA and draw the money for herself for months, even if it went into a joint account with ATM card.

Wayned is correct about notifying the SSA in Manila about 4 months before turning 62 if the OP wants to start benefits then. Hubby's b-day is Aug 18, so we emailed SSA Manila in early June and they replied within one business day, setting up a time for us to receive an incoming phone call for an initial interview. Helps to have wife and tax returns available during that interview. Hubby's situation was fairly "clean" -- he's still on his first wife, has no children and had just three years of military service, so a 1/2 hour phone took care of it. (I understand it can be more complex if someone has been married and divorced, career military, etc) During that call the SSA guy said Hubby's benefits would start the first full month after he turned 62 (i.e. September) and they're paid at the beginning of the following month. The SSA guy in Manila sent Hubby a follow-up email a couple days after the call saying everything was set up and he should look for his first payment around the first of October. It showed up just as promised.

Even though we live in Thailand, we use a U.S. mail forwarding service based in Florida. I wanted all written communication to go to that address and the Manila SSA guy said we'd have to go to Florida to start up Hubby's SSA there. No go! But, he was more than willing for us to designate direct deposit of Hubby's SSA benefit to a U.S. bank account. Amazingly, that account is a joint account at a U.S. credit union. We use that account to pay the credit card bills from our U.S. visa card and pay for life insurance and other U.S.-based bills. (Gee, I wonder if I can just not tell SSA when Hubby dies and still have them send his benefit to our joint account? -- nope, probably not!)

[lopburi3]

There should not be any need to season money prior to change of status - just have the money in an account - believe the seasoning of 2 months can take place after the non immigrant visa entry is issued.

[wayned]

"When a foreigner dies in Thailand, their embassy/consulate is notified immediately. The American consulate will tell the SSA; there's no way a Thai wife/gf can just fail to notify the SSA and draw the money for herself for months, even if it went into a joint account with ATM card."

Maybe that's so in CM but where I live it's the last telephone pole on a dirt road in the middle of a sugar cane field and I paid for 1.5 kilometers of line and poles when I bulilt the house. It's 12.5 kilometers from the nearest village. When I die, I'll be ashes within 3 days and nobody in the Embassy will know and really I don't care. So that's why they have the rule.

The OP should open a Thai bank account immediately to start "seasoning" the 800,000 baht for the 60 days needed to apply for a O visa. As mentioned, Bangkok Bank is a logical place to do this since they also can accept incoming SSA deposits transferred from the US gov't. Unfortunately, that 800,000 baht has to be in a Thai account, not an overseas account to apply for an O visa at CM Immigration.

To my knowledge most of the Bangkok Bank branches in CM will allow someone on a tourist visa to open an account, especially if they say they immediatly want to transfer in 800,000 baht to start down the road for an O visa. The branches at the two malls will definitely do this since they have many foreign customers. That account should solely be in the name of the OP -- joint accounts aren't accepted by Immigration.

We have Hubby's private pension direct deposited into Bangkok Bank NYC, where it shows up immediately in our joint Bangkok Bank account, blue passbook w/ATM card. His private pension issuer doesn't have any silly rules about having to direct deposit into a non-ATM, non-joint account. Frankly the SSA rule about direct deposit into Bangkok Bank has never made sense to me. When a foreigner dies in Thailand, their embassy/consulate is notified immediately. The American consulate will tell the SSA; there's no way a Thai wife/gf can just fail to notify the SSA and draw the money for herself for months, even if it went into a joint account with ATM card.

Wayned is correct about notifying the SSA in Manila about 4 months before turning 62 if the OP wants to start benefits then. Hubby's b-day is Aug 18, so we emailed SSA Manila in early June and they replied within one business day, setting up a time for us to receive an incoming phone call for an initial interview. Helps to have wife and tax returns available during that interview. Hubby's situation was fairly "clean" -- he's still on his first wife, has no children and had just three years of military service, so a 1/2 hour phone took care of it. (I understand it can be more complex if someone has been married and divorced, career military, etc) During that call the SSA guy said Hubby's benefits would start the first full month after he turned 62 (i.e. September) and they're paid at the beginning of the following month. The SSA guy in Manila sent Hubby a follow-up email a couple days after the call saying everything was set up and he should look for his first payment around the first of October. It showed up just as promised.

Even though we live in Thailand, we use a U.S. mail forwarding service based in Florida. I wanted all written communication to go to that address and the Manila SSA guy said we'd have to go to Florida to start up Hubby's SSA there. No go! But, he was more than willing for us to designate direct deposit of Hubby's SSA benefit to a U.S. bank account. Amazingly, that account is a joint account at a U.S. credit union. We use that account to pay the credit card bills from our U.S. visa card and pay for life insurance and other U.S.-based bills. (Gee, I wonder if I can just not tell SSA when Hubby dies and still have them send his benefit to our joint account? -- nope, probably not!)

[smiling mantis]

To my knowledge most of the Bangkok Bank branches in CM will allow someone on a tourist visa to open an account, especially if they say they immediatly want to transfer in 800,000 baht to start down the road for an O visa.

This may be true but if you're retiring here then I strongly recommend opening a foreign currency deposit account at Bangkok Bank, and as of a year ago you can only do this in Bangkok at the main Silom branch. And if you're doing that you might as well go for the baht passbook account with the ATM and Internet banking all in one go.

Just remember to then change your branch after its all approved to one in CM so you don't get hit with the inter-provincial charges all of the time.

[NancyL]

To my knowledge most of the Bangkok Bank branches in CM will allow someone on a tourist visa to open an account, especially if they say they immediatly want to transfer in 800,000 baht to start down the road for an O visa.

This may be true but if you're retiring here then I strongly recommend opening a foreign currency deposit account at Bangkok Bank, and as of a year ago you can only do this in Bangkok at the main Silom branch. And if you're doing that you might as well go for the baht passbook account with the ATM and Internet banking all in one go.

Just remember to then change your branch after its all approved to one in CM so you don't get hit with the inter-provincial charges all of the time.

Why would someone need a foreign currency deposit account they maintain a bank account in their home country? Hubby's pension is direct deposited into Bangkok Bank in NYC and somehow it's magically converted into Thai baht when it shows up in our joint Bangkok Bank ATM account. Can't take long -- it shows up the same day of the month as it did when it was direct deposited into our U.S. credit union account located in the same city as the corporate headquarters of his former employer.

Definitely second the need to move your "home branch" to one near your home. For one thing, if you fumble ound too long at the ATM machine and don't immediately remove your card when it spits it out, the Bangkok Bank ATM machine sucks it up and you have to go to your "home branch" to retrieve it the next day. No way around that rule. Helps if you make this little mistake at or near your "home branch", even though you still have to wait until the next day to get it.

[NancyL]

I guess Wayned wife isn't going to get a death certificate if she's planning to turn him into ashes within three days of death and not tell anyone. Hope she isn't planning to collect any life insurance.

In order to get a death certificate for a foreigner, the Embassy/consulate will be notified.

[smiling mantis]

Why would someone need a foreign currency deposit account they maintain a bank account in their home country? Hubby's pension is direct deposited into Bangkok Bank in NYC and somehow it's magically converted into Thai baht when it shows up in our joint Bangkok Bank ATM account. Can't take long -- it shows up the same day of the month as it did when it was direct deposited into our U.S. credit union account located in the same city as the corporate headquarters of his former employer.

Because then you can control the exchange rate. You can see what the rate is before you change dollars into baht. If you don't like the rate the bank offers (and it's always been spot on every time I've checked) you always have the option of pulling out the dollars yourself and taking them to a money changer, or simply waiting for a day when the rate is more favorable.

[qdinthailand]

My experience today at Chaing Mai Immigration was different from what was explained here.

I indicated reason for applying for non-immigrant O visa was for 'long term stay leading to retirement'.

I was asked for bank letter showing deposit of 800,000 baht.

I indicated I was just trying to get Type O visa - they said no, just do bank deposit and I go directly from Tourist to Retirement (O-A) visa.

So I went to bank and opened account, tonight I work on transferring money from U.S. brokerage account to satisfy fund requirement.

In about a week I hope to return to immigration office and resubmit app. for O-A visa.

[Lite Beer]

O-A Visa cannot be obtained in Thailand. It can only be obtained in your country of residence.

You are probably talking about an extension of stay.

[JimGant]

I indicated I was just trying to get Type O visa - they said no,

Conversions to a Non Imm O visa within Thailand are strictly the first step leading to a one-year extension (based on marriage or retirement). As such, you need to meet the requirement for that extension to get that first step (i.e., you needed to show the money in the bank to get the Non Imm O visa). When you go back with your bank statement, the Non Imm O visa will be stamped in your passport, immediately followed by a "USED" stamp, and you'll get a 90-day permission of stay stamp -- beginning from the date you visit Immigration to convert, not the date you last entered Thailand. So, the utility of this in-country Non Imm O visa is strictly as the vehicle to "hook" your subsequent retirement extension -- and annual renewals -- to.

That first one-year retirement extension requires 60 days for the 800k to sit in your bank account. So plan on returning to Immigration two months after conversion to get your one-year extension. The beginning date of that extension will be from the expiration of the 90-day permission period. That's the date -- with a 30-day window before -- you'll now have to renew your annual retirement extension -- with 90 days of unmolested sitting by your 800k of baht.

[JimGant]

I have no family or address in the US, no address no bank account,

USAA will now allow anyone, regardless of military connection, to open a checking and savings account with their USAA Federal Savings Bank (without military connection you still can't have full membership, thus denying access to the full array of their services, like insurance).

I wondered about someone like wayne, possibly with no military connection -- and no Stateside address. So I called USAA. Question: "If someone without any military connection lives full-time in Thailand -- and has no US address, can he open a checking account?" Put me on hold for over 5 minutes. Came back with, "No. Because Thailand is on the restricted list." (Not sure what that's all about.....) I then asked, "What if he did have a Stateside address, but lived full-time in Thailand?" She right-off said "No, because his physical address was in Thailand."

I didn't ask (darnit), had he a military connection, did this change things?

And I do know that, in my case, being retired military, and having USAA membership since Christ was a corporal, living full-time in Thailand, with no US address, is not a problem. But what about non-military connected types, who, while still living in the States, open a USAA checking/savings account? Can they maintain their account after moving full-time to Thailand?

Now, you have to ask, if he had a US address (and maybe just a PO Box, at that), how would they ever know he lived in Thailand (unless, of course, he volunteered this info)?

Anyway, it sure is nice to have a US bank account while living in Thailand -- for many reasons -- as have already been discussed.

Does anyone reading this have experience with opening a USAA account from Thailand -- with or without a US address? Same question, but for other financial institutions -- particularly if no US address required?

[lopburi3]

I opened such an account several years ago only using my Thai address without issue but I did have an old RA number from a one tour enlistment many moons ago. But that does not allow access to investment accounts it seems if have foreign address. But for normal savings/checking it does.

[NancyL]

My experience today at Chaing Mai Immigration was different from what was explained here.

I indicated reason for applying for non-immigrant O visa was for 'long term stay leading to retirement'.

I was asked for bank letter showing deposit of 800,000 baht.

I indicated I was just trying to get Type O visa - they said no, just do bank deposit and I go directly from Tourist to Retirement (O-A) visa.

So I went to bank and opened account, tonight I work on transferring money from U.S. brokerage account to satisfy fund requirement.

In about a week I hope to return to immigration office and resubmit app. for O-A visa.

Please let us know how this works out, but I think you're a bit confused.

But, at least you've started down the right path in transferring 800,000 baht into Thailand. When you return and resubmit your application for a "O-A" visa next week, I think what you'll actually get is a 90 day O visa with instructions to return during the last 30 days of that visa to extend for 12 months due to retirement. At that time, your money will have seasoned for 60 days in Thailand. Perhaps they don't want to grant you that 90 day O visa until they know you're serious about wanting to meet the financial requirements for a retirement extension.

[lopburi3]

Perhaps they don't want to grant you that 90 day O visa until they know you're serious about wanting to meet the financial requirements for a retirement extension.

They have no choice - you must show that you can meet the extension of stay requirements, as that is the only basis they have to issue the visa, so an Embassy letter or bank deposit proof is a requirement for change of status.

[JimGant]

I opened such an account several years ago only using my Thai address without issue but I did have an old RA number from a one tour enlistment many moons ago. But that does not allow access to investment accounts it seems if have foreign address. But for normal savings/checking it does.

Interesting. Wayned, if you've a military connection -- and are interested in establishing a US bank account -- maybe there's hope. Toll free number for USAA in Thailand is: 001-800-531-87220. Texas time.

[JimGant]

The SSA guy in Manila sent Hubby a follow-up email a couple days after the call saying everything was set up and he should look for his first payment around the first of October. It showed up just as promised.

Nancy, he got it around the first of the month? I thought they changed, for new beneficiaries as of 1997, to this:

Born 1-10: 2nd Wed

Born 11-20: 3rd Wed

Born 21-31: 4th Wed

Maybe going thru Manila alters things....?

Wife and I started SS a few years ago -- applying in the States. And we're on the Wednesday system. (My old mom, however, gets hers at the beginning of the month, having gone on SS benefits 31 years ago.)

[IMA_FARANG]

[

Nancy, he got it around the first of the month? I thought they changed, for new beneficiaries as of 1997, to this:

Born 1-10: 2nd Wed

Born 11-20: 3rd Wed

Born 21-31: 4th Wed

Maybe going thru Manila alters things....?

-------------------------

Not any longer. That was changed this year.

Now all Social Security pensions, at least for those with direct deposit, are paid by computer to your direct deposit account on the 3rd of the month.

Not sure exactly when this change took place...but was within the last 6 months.

Social Security supposedly did this as an effeciency and "cost-cutting" measure.

[JimGant]

Now all Social Security pensions, at least for those with direct deposit, are paid by computer to your direct deposit account on the 3rd of the month.

If they're International Direct Deposits........

International Direct Deposits don't adhere to the Wednesday schedule -- but are paid on the 3rd of the month. However, direct deposits to a US financial institution DO adhere to the Wednesday schedule. (Unless, apparently, you apply at the Manila SS office.)

See HERE

Nancy's husband, by applying for his SS benefit through Manila, apparently got the international benefit of the 3rd of the month pay schedule -- even though the payment is to a US financial institution.

Had he applied in Florida, he would be on the Wednesday schedule.