Thailand Water Management System Will Require Years Of Investment: Dutch Expert

[webfact]

Water management will require years of investment, Dutch expert advises

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Thailand should turn the flood crisis into an opportunity by introducing a comprehensive flood and water management system, Dutch water-management expert Adri Verwey said.

"The will is very important," said Verwey, who was dispatched by the Netherlands government and spent weeks in Bangkok helping the Flood Relief Operations Centre (FROC).

Verwey, who is leaving Thailand this weekend as it begins to appear that inner Bangkok will be spared, said it would take Thailand years to ensure that Bangkok becomes a safe and stable environment in terms of flood risk. Verwey, who spoke at the Dutch Embassy on Thursday evening, said that a comprehensive flood and water management system in central Thailand will stimulate the economy.

He believes Thailand does not need to relocate its capital, as proposed by some 20 Pheu Thai Party MPs, adding that it can learn from the Netherlands and other nations which face a similar threat. "Don't rush," Verwey said. "Bangkok can still go on for quite some time [as the capital]."

Dutch Ambassador Joan Boer said he hopes the flooding will serve as a "tipping point" for Thai society in committing itself to making citizens feel safe from flooding. Boer added that his home in the Netherlands, dating from the 1780s, is two metres below sea level, but he feels completely safe. The ambassador said his government is more than willing to assist Thailand in learning from its successes as well as failures in tackling flooding over the decades. The envoy added, however, that it took 50 years of investment to build what exists in his country today.

Verwey, who said industrial estates like Lat Krabang could be spared if sluice gates and flood barriers are properly maintained over the next seven days, added that Thailand may not need a new water authority as some have suggested. What is essential, however, is for the Kingdom to have a "clear rule" that governs the way various authorities talk with one another. "We try to make water [a] non-political issue in Holland."

Asked if it is now safe for residents of inner Bangkok to remove their flood defences, Verwey said it was up to individuals. He added, however, that since there are so many sandbags in Bangkok and surrounding areas at the moment, the selling price would be low, while holding on to them a little longer might fetch a better price.

It might be worth noting, however, that as of Thursday evening, the Dutch Embassy on Soi Ton Son Road was still protected by sandbags outside its gates.

-- The Nation 2011-11-19

[noitom]

"Asked if it is now safe for residents of inner Bangkok to remove their flood defences, Verwey said it was up to individuals. He added, however, that since there are so many sandbags in Bangkok and surrounding areas at the moment, the selling price would be low, while holding on to them a little longer might fetch a better price."

- The Dutch guy doesn't answer the question - he determines it's a question about the value of the sandbags. What is his expertise - water management and flood prevention or sandbag marketing?

[melsnet]

Thought the Dutch were experts at keeping out sea water, not the dispersal of interior flooding.

[rubl]

Thought the Dutch were experts at keeping out sea water, not the dispersal of interior flooding.

A bit of both. With a few major rivers passing through the country with the last 60 kilometers of the route below sea level, it's not only keeping sea water out, but trying to help rivers drain uphill. Every year these rivers also tend to flood because of rain or (snow)melt water from higher up the river. The flooding is controlled into designated catchment areas, but still needs a lot of infrastructure.

Edited November 19, 2011 by rubl

[noitom]

He's a sandbag marketing expert too?

[rubl]

He's a sandbag marketing expert too?

No, just typically Dutch, thrifty

BTW as far as I know Adri Verwey works for Deltares Deltares

Edited November 19, 2011 by rubl

[jimbeam1]

The Dutch are not needed?

The Japanese experts have been called in.

Thailand wants to go Nuclear?

jb1

[mahtin]

" What is essential, however, is for the Kingdom to have a "clear rule" that governs the way various authorities talk with one another. "We try to make water [a] non-political issue in Holland."

Exit De Vliegende Hollander

[melsnet]

" What is essential, however, is for the Kingdom to have a "clear rule" that governs the way various authorities talk with one another. "We try to make water [a] non-political issue in Holland."

Exit De Vliegende Hollander

In England we have saying when someone is talking "double dutch", it means they are talking rubbish.

[rubl]

" What is essential, however, is for the Kingdom to have a "clear rule" that governs the way various authorities talk with one another. "We try to make water [a] non-political issue in Holland."

Exit De Vliegende Hollander

In England we have saying when someone is talking "double dutch", it means they are talking rubbish.

But the remark from 'mahtin' was spot on. 'non-political issue' -> exit

Take this from your local Dutch uncle

[nurgut73]

Water management will require years of investment... And some common sense... Let's hope they get at least the investment lined up

[Napat9]

Nederland!!

[melsnet]

" What is essential, however, is for the Kingdom to have a "clear rule" that governs the way various authorities talk with one another. "We try to make water [a] non-political issue in Holland."

Exit De Vliegende Hollander

In England we have saying when someone is talking "double dutch", it means they are talking rubbish.

But the remark from 'mahtin' was spot on. 'non-political issue' -> exit

Take this from your local Dutch uncle

Dutch uncle is a English term for a person who issues frank, harsh, and severe comments and criticism to educate, encourage, or admonish someone. Thus, a "Dutch uncle" is a person who is rather the reverse of what is normally thought of as avuncular or uncle-like (which would be indulgent and permissive).

Very apt.

[robblok]

" What is essential, however, is for the Kingdom to have a "clear rule" that governs the way various authorities talk with one another. "We try to make water [a] non-political issue in Holland."

Exit De Vliegende Hollander

In England we have saying when someone is talking "double dutch", it means they are talking rubbish.

But the remark from 'mahtin' was spot on. 'non-political issue' -> exit

Take this from your local Dutch uncle

Dutch uncle is a English term for a person who issues frank, harsh, and severe comments and criticism to educate, encourage, or admonish someone. Thus, a "Dutch uncle" is a person who is rather the reverse of what is normally thought of as avuncular or uncle-like (which would be indulgent and permissive).

Very apt.

I think that is because most Dutch are quite blunt and to the point. I know i am no BS just telling people what you think of it. (does not always work of course)

[yumidesign]

quote (adding that it can learn from the Netherlands and other nations which face a similar threat. )quote

now there is a problem with this idea mr dutch man you did not spend enough time in the country perhaps

[ResX]

Water management will require years of investment... And some common sense... Let's hope they get at least the investment lined up

Maybe NOT. Probably the infrastructures are already there. Just requires one final touch to make a complete Integrated Water Resources Management. I hope this is really the case for Thailand.

[hankorstanje]

Here is a map of the waterway's in holland with elevation levels to give you any idea where they talking about.

http://www.binnenvaart.be/nl/waterwegen/kaart_benelux.html

[hankorstanje]

Water management will require years of investment... And some common sense... Let's hope they get at least the investment lined up

Maybe NOT. Probably the infrastructures are already there. Just requires one final touch to make a complete Integrated Water Resources Management. I hope this is really the case for Thailand.

There is no infrastructure if you talk about water manegement on the scale needed we not talk about klongs from a few meter wide or deep but about making rivers run smootly deeping it out and keep them that way.

To make canals from 50 meter wide and at least 10 meter deep making room for overflow of rivers make dikes around those rivers and canals from at least 3 meter high

[SICHONSTEVE]

Water management will require years of investment, Dutch expert advises.

Shouldn't that read:

Water management will require years of corruption Dutch expert advises!!!!!

[hankorstanje]

Water management will require years of investment, Dutch expert advises.

Shouldn't that read:

Water management will require years of corruption Dutch expert advises!!!!!

What ever they manage there will all way's be corruption but without any plan there will not be annything left to corrupt.

[BKK22]

Water management will require years of investment... And some common sense... Let's hope they get at least the investment lined up

Maybe NOT. Probably the infrastructures are already there. Just requires one final touch to make a complete Integrated Water Resources Management. I hope this is really the case for Thailand.

There is no infrastructure if you talk about water manegement on the scale needed we not talk about klongs from a few meter wide or deep but about making rivers run smootly deeping it out and keep them that way.

To make canals from 50 meter wide and at least 10 meter deep making room for overflow of rivers make dikes around those rivers and canals from at least 3 meter high

The already had the system ready from the King's idea. But the government managed to mess everything up.

[hankorstanje]

The Dutch East India Company played a vital role in Ayutthaya's foreign trade from1605 until 1765

And at that time we already advise them to build there capitol on higher grounds.

But yea if you get a king named King Taksin Maharaj (King Taksin's achievements have caused to bestow on him the epithet "The Great".)

You can imagine what happen, so they build Bangkok started in 1767

And now waiting for the great Taksin for new great plans.

[Chris Lawrence]

"Asked if it is now safe for residents of inner Bangkok to remove their flood defences, Verwey said it was up to individuals. He added, however, that since there are so many sandbags in Bangkok and surrounding areas at the moment, the selling price would be low, while holding on to them a little longer might fetch a better price."

- The Dutch guy doesn't answer the question - he determines it's a question about the value of the sandbags. What is his expertise - water management and flood prevention or sandbag marketing?

:cheesy:

Appears as though the Dutch are putting together their job resume?

The other point they make is that it is going take a lot of time and Thailand money to figure this one out.

The most important work for the mitigation problems are probably being done in Bali over the weekend, were other countries with the same problem will be more motivated then the Dutch, in solving the problem.

I heard the Nation has a Dutch benefactor, just a rumor?

[jacnl2000]

Here is a map of the waterway's in holland with elevation levels to give you any idea where they talking about.

http://www.binnenvaa...rt_benelux.html

The card does not mention the rather small Dutch rivers who have been present for many centuries now. E.g. De Beerze in the south of the Netherlands which btw. contains a much too small rope bridge at its famous Holy Mary Oak (early 15^thcentury found in the river De Beerze). Currently during the last two decades De Beerze got almost as many artificially created windings as the famous road high in the mountains from Mea Sot to Umphang in Thailand has in a natural way, making nature lovers sitting on the back of a pickup truck vomit, and making the Dutch De Beerze crossing potential areas which are to be flooded (to be givenback to nature) in case of an emergency. It seems also Mother Nature vomits locally from time to time. A large capacitor for storage of water always needs a rather large area. The largest capacitor area available for flooding in the Netherlands is the Netherlands itself. When really large amounts of water need to be transported horizontally control of the speed of water transport becomes in my opinion more important than the total flooding area available. Currently all Dutch cities and villages already have water problems during a relative heavy rainfall (being rather small compared to rainfall in the northeast of Thailand).

[Chris Lawrence]

Here is a map of the waterway's in holland with elevation levels to give you any idea where they talking about.

http://www.binnenvaa...rt_benelux.html

The card does not mention the rather small Dutch rivers who have been present for many centuries now. E.g. De Beerze in the south of the Netherlands which btw. contains a much too small rope bridge at its famous Holy Mary Oak (early 15^thcentury found in the river De Beerze). Currently during the last two decades De Beerze got almost as many artificially created windings as the famous road high in the mountains from Mea Sot to Umphang in Thailand has in a natural way, making nature lovers sitting on the back of a pickup truck vomit, and making the Dutch De Beerze crossing potential areas which are to be flooded (to be givenback to nature) in case of an emergency. It seems also Mother Nature vomits locally from time to time. A large capacitor for storage of water always needs a rather large area. The largest capacitor area available for flooding in the Netherlands is the Netherlands itself. When really large amounts of water need to be transported horizontally control of the speed of water transport becomes in my opinion more important than the total flooding area available. Currently all Dutch cities and villages already have water problems during a relative heavy rainfall (being rather small compared to rainfall in the northeast of Thailand).

I just can't remember when Hollands last monsoon rains were?

[hankorstanje]

Here is a map of the waterway's in holland with elevation levels to give you any idea where they talking about.

http://www.binnenvaa...rt_benelux.html

The card does not mention the rather small Dutch rivers who have been present for many centuries now. E.g. De Beerze in the south of the Netherlands which btw. contains a much too small rope bridge at its famous Holy Mary Oak (early 15^thcentury found in the river De Beerze). Currently during the last two decades De Beerze got almost as many artificially created windings as the famous road high in the mountains from Mea Sot to Umphang in Thailand has in a natural way, making nature lovers sitting on the back of a pickup truck vomit, and making the Dutch De Beerze crossing potential areas which are to be flooded (to be givenback to nature) in case of an emergency. It seems also Mother Nature vomits locally from time to time. A large capacitor for storage of water always needs a rather large area. The largest capacitor area available for flooding in the Netherlands is the Netherlands itself. When really large amounts of water need to be transported horizontally control of the speed of water transport becomes in my opinion more important than the total flooding area available. Currently all Dutch cities and villages already have water problems during a relative heavy rainfall (being rather small compared to rainfall in the northeast of Thailand).

I just can't remember when Hollands last monsoon rains were?

And when was the last there was melting water from the snow ice and gletchers coming from the north of thailand, not the rain in holland is a problem thats same as in thai with local rain in bkk the problem is the melting water down stream from tthe main rivers in combination with heavy rain fall in swiss, germany belgium and france and high tides by storm depresions.

Edited November 19, 2011 by hankorstanje

[rubl]

:cheesy:

Appears as though the Dutch are putting together their job resume?

The other point they make is that it is going take a lot of time and Thailand money to figure this one out.

The most important work for the mitigation problems are probably being done in Bali over the weekend, were other countries with the same problem will be more motivated then the Dutch, in solving the problem.

I heard the Nation has a Dutch benefactor, just a rumor?

Other countries with the same problem being more motivated? Mitigation? It's probably my misunderstanding, I associate mitigation with law rather than practical solutions.

As for the rumour, interesting one, where did you hear it and what did you hear?

Edited November 19, 2011 by rubl

[jacnl2000]

Here is a map of the waterway's in holland with elevation levels to give you any idea where they talking about.

http://www.binnenvaa...rt_benelux.html

The card does not mention the rather small Dutch rivers who have been present for many centuries now. E.g. De Beerze in the south of the Netherlands which btw. contains a much too small rope bridge at its famous Holy Mary Oak (early 15^thcentury found in the river De Beerze). Currently during the last two decades De Beerze got almost as many artificially created windings as the famous road high in the mountains from Mea Sot to Umphang in Thailand has in a natural way, making nature lovers sitting on the back of a pickup truck vomit, and making the Dutch De Beerze crossing potential areas which are to be flooded (to be givenback to nature) in case of an emergency. It seems also Mother Nature vomits locally from time to time. A large capacitor for storage of water always needs a rather large area. The largest capacitor area available for flooding in the Netherlands is the Netherlands itself. When really large amounts of water need to be transported horizontally control of the speed of water transport becomes in my opinion more important than the total flooding area available. Currently all Dutch cities and villages already have water problems during a relative heavy rainfall (being rather small compared to rainfall in the northeast of Thailand).

I just can't remember when Hollands last monsoon rains were?

I agree. The Dutch do not have a rainy season, but do know winters and experienced the meltdown effects of accumulations of large quantities of snow elsewhere in Europe. In the previous post I referred to flooding areas as capacitors. In case water turns into snow those areas turn into some kind of watercoils virtually functioning as capacitors having much larger area's than physical possible (gyrator effect?). Accumulation of snow in the sky is unlimited. I have seen large rainfall in the northeast of Thailand but experienced no snow yet during their winters.

[rodcourt49]

"Asked if it is now safe for residents of inner Bangkok to remove their flood defences, Verwey said it was up to individuals. He added, however, that since there are so many sandbags in Bangkok and surrounding areas at the moment, the selling price would be low, while holding on to them a little longer might fetch a better price."

- The Dutch guy doesn't answer the question - he determines it's a question about the value of the sandbags. What is his expertise - water management and flood prevention or sandbag marketing?

..what is the current value of a second-hand, water-logged sand bag?

[billd766]

"Asked if it is now safe for residents of inner Bangkok to remove their flood defences, Verwey said it was up to individuals. He added, however, that since there are so many sandbags in Bangkok and surrounding areas at the moment, the selling price would be low, while holding on to them a little longer might fetch a better price."

- The Dutch guy doesn't answer the question - he determines it's a question about the value of the sandbags. What is his expertise - water management and flood prevention or sandbag marketing?

..what is the current value of a second-hand, water-logged sand bag?

About 50 satang I should think AND the buyer removes them together with the sand.

Before the floods, up in the countryside where I live they used to be 80 baht for 10, new and unused.