Pheu Thai MP Sunai To Discuss Red-Shirt Crackdown With ICC Judge

[webfact]

Sunai to discuss red-shirt crackdown with judge

THE NATION

Says it's too early to say whether the case would be taken to the ICC

Pheu Thai Party MP Sunai Jullapongsathorn said yesterday he would consult the International Criminal Court (ICC) on the possibility of Thailand bringing before it the government's deadly crackdown on red-shirt protesters last year, despite the fact that the Kingdom has yet to ratify the Rome statute.

Thailand signed the statute - the treaty that founded the court - in October 2000 during Chuan Leekpai's administration, but has not yet ratified it, Sunai said.

Sunai, who heads the House of Representatives' Foreign Affairs Committee, yesterday consulted with Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul and senior officials at the Foreign Ministry to explore the possibility of bringing the case before the ICC.

Sunai said he would make a courtesy call on the ICC's chief judge in the Netherlands next week to discuss the case.

Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said.

A military crackdown on red shirts protesting against Abhisit Vejjajiva's government in April and May last year killed 91 people, including some military officers and journalists.

Pheu Thai MP Khattiya Sawasdipol, a daughter of the late Maj-General Khattiya Sawasdipol, who was shot dead during the protest, and overseas-based |supporters of the red shirts are |also interested in the case, Sunai said.

Asked whether the case could be taken to the international court in The Hague, Sunai said, "It's too early to answer the question, since I don't know the law, but I have to do something since the case has made no progress in the Thai justice system.

"Members of the opposition Democrat Party should not have anything to fear if they did nothing wrong," Sunai told reporters.

Opposition Democrat leader Abhisit said yesterday he has not yet received an official summons from the Metropolitan Police Bureau to give his account of the bloody incident.

Former deputy prime minister Suthep Thuagsuban, who was then in charge of security matters, has not received any official letter from the police regarding the case, either, Abhisit said.

"I'm ready to cooperate, but it's very strange that some government politicians and media knew about the [possibility of a] police letter before I did," he said.

Abhisit said the government is trying to link the 91 fatalities with its move to seek amnesty for all parties involved in the political struggle of recent years. Abhisit has said he is opposed to an amnesty designed to benefit individuals.

"I personally disagree with the amnesty since it would not benefit the public or rule of law, but is intended to benefit somebody in particular," he said.

Pheu Thai Party spokesman Promphong Nopparit challenged Abhisit to face justice and take responsibility for the bloody incident.

"As many as 91 people died during Abhisit's government, and the then-prime minister won't take any responsibility?" he said.

-- The Nation 2011-12-02

[Buchholz]

For today's daily dose of Pheu Thai Party flip-flopping...

it's now a Discussion with the ICC, while earlier it was

Sunai to file complaint with ICC over deaths of 91 reds

[virtualtraveller]

Abhisit said the government is trying to link the 91 fatalities with its move to seek amnesty for all parties involved in the political struggle of recent years.

This is pretty much the sum of it, looking at comments made in an interview earlier in the year by a visiting ICC judge, the chances of them taking up the case are quite remote. It's useful that someone from this govt can go and get that from the horse's mouth and drop the whole idea, but it looks to me like an attempt to build a case for issuing amnesty that will 'benefit both sides'.

I hope they aren't wasting tax payers money on this futile exercise.

[beano2274]

I think Sunai is looking for a nice holiday, using tax payers money for travel, he could just as easily use the post or even video conferencing to put his case forward.

Wonder how many klingons will travel with him? (probably family and friends, paid for by the people).

[schuimpje]

Might as well bring the files on the extra-judicial killings in the war on drugs with him while he's at it.Maybe the Tak-Bai incident as well....

..... Oh wait!....

[animatic]

Another round of the same old same old.

No chance the court will take the case,

but he wants to make the linkage in case

some in opposition get scared it might work

and vote for amnesty.

Bla bla bla from a political hack trying more hatchet job politics.

[lensta]

I think Sunai is looking for a nice holiday, using tax payers money for travel, he could just as easily use the post or even video conferencing to put his case forward.

Wonder how many klingons will travel with him? (probably family and friends, paid for by the people).

"Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said."

maybe this quote from the op answers your question.

[beano2274]

I think Sunai is looking for a nice holiday, using tax payers money for travel, he could just as easily use the post or even video conferencing to put his case forward.

Wonder how many klingons will travel with him? (probably family and friends, paid for by the people).

"Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said."

maybe this quote from the op answers your question.

And you believe that. Thai Government officials travel free on Thai Airways, that is why the company has gone downhill. Also I can bet that he will claim it back on expenses the hotels and other travel arrangements. My question why go in the first place, there are other means in which to communicate your feelings to the ICC.

[Soutpeel]

My question why go in the first place, there are other means in which to communicate your feelings to the ICC.

Exactly, our man in Dubai runs Thailand via Skype....

[Buchholz]

"Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said."

maybe this quote from the op answers your question.

I find another quote from another Sunai thread involving the many European Red Shirts monetary involvement intriguing.

Mr.Sunai will have to travel to The Hague to try to lodge the complaint. What a waste of money! Taxpayers' money?

Supposedly his money and European Red Shirts money.

Sunai, who is Chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, said he will use his own money for the travel and many red shirts in Europe have organized everything for him.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Buchholz

[beano2274]

They were told before that the ICC has no jurisdiction, so why try going down the same route again. This is just political table tennis, the Democrats will return with top spin!!!!!

[hanuman2543]

I think Sunai is looking for a nice holiday, using tax payers money for travel, he could just as easily use the post or even video conferencing to put his case forward.

Wonder how many klingons will travel with him? (probably family and friends, paid for by the people).

"Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said."

Please read the article again before making accusations.

[beano2274]

I think Sunai is looking for a nice holiday, using tax payers money for travel, he could just as easily use the post or even video conferencing to put his case forward.

Wonder how many klingons will travel with him? (probably family and friends, paid for by the people).

"Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said."

Please read the article again before making accusations.

Like I said before, you believe that.

Thai Airways flights for Thai Government officials are free, if he stays at the Consulate it is free, if he stays at a hotel, then maybe he might put it on expenses, or maybe a certain person living somewhere else has contributed some of his wealth.

I just do not see the point of going there when they have already been told to forget it, also he can write a letter or have a video or phone conference. Traveling to the ICC is unnecessary.

Edited December 2, 2011 by beano2274

[lannarebirth]

I think Sunai is looking for a nice holiday, using tax payers money for travel, he could just as easily use the post or even video conferencing to put his case forward.

Wonder how many klingons will travel with him? (probably family and friends, paid for by the people).

"Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said."

Please read the article again before making accusations.

Like I said before, you believe that.

Thai Airways flights for Thai Government officials are free, if he stays at the Consulate it is free, if he stays at a hotel, then maybe he might put it on expenses, or maybe a certain person living somewhere else has contributed some of his wealth.

I just do not see the point of going there when they have already been told to forget it, also he can write a letter or have a video or phone conference. Traveling to the ICC is unnecessary.

Yes it could be done with an emial. Anyway, what judge in the world is going to meet with a would be plaintiff without the would be defendant's lawyer being present?

Edited December 2, 2011 by lannarebirth

[chuang]

I think Sunai is looking for a nice holiday, using tax payers money for travel, he could just as easily use the post or even video conferencing to put his case forward.

Wonder how many klingons will travel with him? (probably family and friends, paid for by the people).

"Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said."

Please read the article again before making accusations.

Blind accusations, you read many of these in this forum...they always jumped before they look..

[hanuman2543]

I think Sunai is looking for a nice holiday, using tax payers money for travel, he could just as easily use the post or even video conferencing to put his case forward.

Wonder how many klingons will travel with him? (probably family and friends, paid for by the people).

"Senior officials and legal experts at the ministry would accompany him at his personal expense, he |said."

Please read the article again before making accusations.

Like I said before, you believe that.

Thai Airways flights for Thai Government officials are free, if he stays at the Consulate it is free, if he stays at a hotel, then maybe he might put it on expenses, or maybe a certain person living somewhere else has contributed some of his wealth.

I just do not see the point of going there when they have already been told to forget it, also he can write a letter or have a video or phone conference. Traveling to the ICC is unnecessary.

Too many ifs and maybes to be credible. Please give evidence or keep quiet .

[rubl]

Sunai, who heads the House of Representatives' Foreign Affairs Committee, yesterday consulted with Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul and senior officials at the Foreign Ministry to explore the possibility of bringing the case before the ICC.

It may be logical for a committee on Foreign Affairs to consult the Foreign Minister, but possible dealing with the ICC seems more a case for the Justice Ministry. Only when they see a legal possibility the Foreign Office may be involved.

Sunai said he would make a courtesy call on the ICC's chief judge in the Netherlands next week to discuss the case.

I hope k. Sunai made an appointment, please see this page http://www.icc-cpi.int/Menus/ICC/Contact

Asked whether the case could be taken to the international court in The Hague, Sunai said, "It's too early to answer the question, since I don't know the law, but I have to do something since the case has made no progress in the Thai justice system.

"I don't know the law", so check with the Justice Ministry. All this is a bit unfair on the Thai justice system, most cases with politicians, or other well-connected people takes many years and no one complaining. This particular case is still being 'rounded up', only last week k. Abhisit/Suthep were interviewed by the police

Edited December 2, 2011 by rubl

[Brucey7]

Oh but it's vital he travels to Europe with his diplomatic bags stashed full, apparently cupboards at home aren't safe anymore...

[JohnAllan]

And here was I thinking Chalerm had sewn everything up?

I am at a loss to understand why Sunai - or any other Thai - thinks this is something that should concern the ICC, particularly taking account of just how long it took the authorities to bring in the army, following attempts to negotiate; the weapons employed by red shirts against the army, who were not then firing on them; the willingness of red shirt leaders to put their followers in the firing line - notice none of them, apart from a rogue army officer, already with innumerable enemies in the establishment, put their own hides in jeopardy. I trust the ICC will treat any such proposal with due contempt. And, unless one is inclined to believe that Sunai is really going to cover the expenses of a retinue of experts to accompany him, another unnecessary dent in the treasury coffers.

And can someone explain why we keep getting two figures for fatalities being quoted: 91 and 92?

Edited December 5, 2011 by JohnAllan

[Moruya]

I wonder if the government will be even handed and ask for the deaths during Thaksin's war on drugs and the Tak Bai incident to be reviewed as well.

[ratcatcher]

Sunai, who heads the House of Representatives' Foreign Affairs Committee, yesterday consulted with Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul and senior officials at the Foreign Ministry to explore the possibility of bringing the case before the ICC.

It may be logical for a committee on Foreign Affairs to consult the Foreign Minister, but possible dealing with the ICC seems more a case for the Justice Ministry. Only when they see a legal possibility the Foreign Office may be involved.

Sunai said he would make a courtesy call on the ICC's chief judge in the Netherlands next week to discuss the case.

I hope k. Sunai made an appointment, please see this page http://www.icc-cpi.i...nus/ICC/Contact

Asked whether the case could be taken to the international court in The Hague, Sunai said, "It's too early to answer the question, since I don't know the law, but I have to do something since the case has made no progress in the Thai justice system.

"I don't know the law", so check with the Justice Ministry. All this is a bit unfair on the Thai justice system, most cases with politicians, or other well-connected people takes many years and no one complaining. This particular case is still being 'rounded up', only last week k. Abhisit/Suthep were interviewed by the police

Perhaps khun Sunai will come back with some tulips from "Amsterdam"

[moe666]

Becareful what you ask for redshirts killed a few people themselves and who paid for it. The rest of the world will give it a fair hearing and look at the whole picture. This guy may not want to go down that road

[phiphidon]

I find another quote from another Sunai thread involving the many European Red Shirts monetary involvement intriguing.

Mr.Sunai will have to travel to The Hague to try to lodge the complaint. What a waste of money! Taxpayers' money?

Supposedly his money and European Red Shirts money.

Sunai, who is Chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, said he will use his own money for the travel and many red shirts in Europe have organized everything for him.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4877295

You find your own quotes intriguing? Why? What do you find so fascinating?

[ThaiOats]

Becareful what you ask for redshirts killed a few people themselves and who paid for it. The rest of the world will give it a fair hearing and look at the whole picture. This guy may not want to go down that road

That's the problem with this Red Shirt government, everyone else is wrong and they're the only ones right. If they want to make it fair, they'd raise up the issue of Tak Bai and Thaksin's War on Drugs in the south, but they're not going to do that. They wouldn't show the videos of their Red Shirt leaders instigating violence or show the photos of Red Shirts carrying weapons either. If they're willing to raise those issues by all means go for it... otherwise it's just one sided.

[hellodolly]

Abhisit said the government is trying to link the 91 fatalities with its move to seek amnesty for all parties involved in the political struggle of recent years.

This is pretty much the sum of it, looking at comments made in an interview earlier in the year by a visiting ICC judge, the chances of them taking up the case are quite remote. It's useful that someone from this govt can go and get that from the horse's mouth and drop the whole idea, but it looks to me like an attempt to build a case for issuing amnesty that will 'benefit both sides'.

I hope they aren't wasting tax payers money on this futile exercise.

I fail to see how a amnesty would benefit any one other than Thaksin himself.

It may be cruel and harsh but the only thing that would benefit both sides is a heart attack.

[Buchholz]

I guess this Friday, we'll find out whether Red Shirt PTP MP Sunai files a complaint with the ICC or discusses with the ICC judge

Sunai to file complaint with ICC over deaths of 91 reds

Pheu Thai MP Sunai Julponsathorn said Monday he will petition the International Criminal Court (ICC) at the Hague on December 9 to take up the crime against humanity case against the 91 who were killed during the military crackdown on red shirts in April and May last year.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Buchholz

[rubl]

I guess this Friday, we'll find out whether Red Shirt PTP MP Sunai files a complaint with the ICC or discusses with the ICC judge

Sunai to file complaint with ICC over deaths of 91 reds

Pheu Thai MP Sunai Julponsathorn said Monday he will petition the International Criminal Court (ICC) at the Hague on December 9 to take up the crime against humanity case against the 91 who were killed during the military crackdown on red shirts in April and May last year.

You're a bit naughty here, dear B. The Pheu Thai MP and red-shirt k. Sunai already watered down his intentions as you can read at #1 in this topic"

"Pheu Thai Party MP Sunai Jullapongsathorn said yesterday he would consult the International Criminal Court (ICC) on the possibility of Thailand bringing before it the government's deadly crackdown on red-shirt protesters last year, despite the fact that the Kingdom has yet to ratify the Rome statute."

[Buchholz]

I guess this Friday, we'll find out whether Red Shirt PTP MP Sunai files a complaint with the ICC or discusses with the ICC judge

Sunai to file complaint with ICC over deaths of 91 reds

Pheu Thai MP Sunai Julponsathorn said Monday he will petition the International Criminal Court (ICC) at the Hague on December 9 to take up the crime against humanity case against the 91 who were killed during the military crackdown on red shirts in April and May last year.

You're a bit naughty here, dear B. The Pheu Thai MP and red-shirt k. Sunai already watered down his intentions as you can read at #1 in this topic"

"Pheu Thai Party MP Sunai Jullapongsathorn said yesterday he would consult the International Criminal Court (ICC) on the possibility of Thailand bringing before it the government's deadly crackdown on red-shirt protesters last year, despite the fact that the Kingdom has yet to ratify the Rome statute."

Making one U-Turn doesn't preclude someone from making another U-Turn.

One is never sure with this fickle group.

.

[rubl]

begin removed ...

Sunai said he would make a courtesy call on the ICC's chief judge in the Netherlands next week to discuss the case.

I hope k. Sunai made an appointment, please see this page http://www.icc-cpi.int/Menus/ICC/Contact

... end removed

I'm just too impatient, I know, it's hardly 9:30PM in the Netherlands. I'm just wondering if k. Sunai did have this courtesy call to the ICC, or if he maybe didn't get a chance because of crossed agenda's, mis-interpretation of appointments or the like

[animatic]

For today's daily dose of Pheu Thai Party flip-flopping...

it's now a Discussion with the ICC, while earlier it was

Sunai to file complaint with ICC over deaths of 91 reds

This is of course ignoring that 91 Reds did NOT die,

91 total deaths occurred and they were not all reds.

These cretins seem to think NOT BOTHERING with actual facts

will get their case heard.