An Ideal Bike For Touring Chiangmai'S Countryside

[muchogra]

Yes, I have told myself many times that riding a motorcycle can be dangerous. But the temptation of exploring the countryside on a bike, breathing in the fresh air and the animal dump, is just too great not to take a little risk and thrill in life.

I am not a fan of speed but do desire a bike that can overtake grandma's, on whatever she's driving, with ease, and can go up long steep slope - characteristics of some CM's landscape - with reasonable speed.

I'm quite healthy and agile and of average built - 1.76m, 73 kg.

Whilst asking what an ideal bike may be I may as well ask what questions they have in the written test for getting a license.

Having been in Thailand for too long I am beginning to lose some common sense here. For example, I have read one post which says it's legal to ride on the sidewalk if the road is heavily congested. Now, I'm not sure if such a statement is sarcasm or fact.

[Sojourner]

One direction you may want to explore is a Kawasaki KLX250. Two of our more experienced riders did a ride to Mae Hong Son a couple of weeks ago and swear by them. The roads are not always the best and they claimed the bikes were able to adapt to those conditions, as well as good road, without any problems.

[moe666]

met a guy who swears by the honds pcx Chiang mai to mae hong song 2 up no problem

[bikerjoy]

get yourself a Yamaha Spark 135cc. fuel-inj. great power and only 55'000 b.

[cm das]

2nd hand Kawasaki D-Tracker or KLX. Not the best for long straightaways but great once you hit the hills. Oh, and I mean the 250 versions, not the 125s.

Edited December 4, 2011 by cm das

[Fishenough]

Rent before you buy, Chiang Mai offers good day rates to test out what bike you think would be perfect for you.

It's fun trying at different models anytime.

[Pond Life]

Honda Dream 125 (carburettor model, the injection is probably good also, but spares harder to find).

Totally indestructible, any damage or problems are easy to fix even in the smallest village.

Spare parts are everywhere & they're very cheap (Best quality rear tire 350 B ).

Try getting parts for a KLX (or any other big bike) out in the boonies (rear tires HOW MUCH !).

Dream 125 about 50,000 B, very good resale value (on the downside expensive to buy second hand).

Also it sounds like you havnt ridden many bikes, Dream is an easy bike to start with.

A Dream with nobbly tires will take you to some pretty extreme places, just look at where the hill tribe people take them.

They're not cool or fast, but in my opinion best all round bike ever built.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Pond Life

[KRS1]

Sounds like either a secondhand CBR 250 or a Ninja 250 is just the ticket. There is one of each for sale in Thaivisa classifieds, also located in Chiang Mai.

I recommend getting something with a gas tank between the knees, better for control and you get longer range. A CBR 150 would also probably be enough for you if you aren't a speed demon and will cost you a bit less. I don't think I would recommend a cruiser type bike for riding the mountains, you'd probably want a bit more control when your in the mountains since you will encounter many curves.

[mrclough]

Honda Dream 125 (carburettor model, the injection is probably good also, but spares harder to find).

Totally indestructible, any damage or problems are easy to fix even in the smallest village.

Spare parts are everywhere & they're very cheap (Best quality rear tire 350 B ).

Try getting parts for a KLX (or any other big bike) out in the boonies (rear tires HOW MUCH !).

Dream 125 about 50,000 B, very good resale value (on the downside expensive to buy second hand).

Also it sounds like you havnt ridden many bikes, Dream is an easy bike to start with.

A Dream with nobbly tires will take you to some pretty extreme places, just look at where the hill tribe people take them.

They're not cool or fast, but in my opinion best all round bike ever built.

The OP did mention the fact that he wanted to overtake with ease. There's a very good chance that the dream is the very bike he will be overtaking.

I do agree that getting parts when you're out in the sticks is difficult to say the least but most modern bikes are very reliable and you can buy a kit to carry with you and plug your tires as a temporary fix should you get a flat.

I just got back from a trip on a rented KLX 250. We went to Pai vis Samoeng up through the mountains to get there and came back the regular road way. I have to confess, the KLX was an amazing bike to ride. Not very quick but it coped with everything with ease and never skipped a beat. If you like this style of bike it's really worth considering, I can't fault it at all.

[CMX]

I must second the opinion that testing out a bike by renting is essential for the OP. Far more important than the bike's suitability to the task is the riders' ability and comfort (and what one tends to fetch along should be considered).

For my money, a sports bike, even a small one, is best suited for the more twisty and hilly roads out in the country...but they are more complex and are better off in the hands of someone with experience of them; besides, new, most cost above 100K - leaving the CBR 150 among road types . Certainly the Yamaha Spark will pass most motorbikes and free one from clutch manipulation (not that's always worthwhile); being much lighter than sports bikes, it's handier.

Many of us do very well with higher-powered (125/135) automatics, which serve well in the twisties, and generally overtake country riders. In exchange for their ease of operation, they do not climb as well as above mentioned, and depend more upon brakes than geared bikes.

A cruiser is most comfortable of all, perhaps, but most country roads hereabouts demand a better solution.

So, by and large, one should go up to Doi Suthep, and down, on rental bikes/cycles, and pick the best bike for one's talents and preferences among the choices.

Paramount is the driver's 'comfort zone' with regard to safety.

Edited December 4, 2011 by CMX

[HaleySabai]

Pond Life's suggestion of a Honda Dream 125 is a good idea for a new rider to consider. It will keep you within your budget and would serve as a overall practical everyday ride in town.

I am astonished at the abuse these 4-stroke machines can endure,having taken my own 110cc on many off road excursions in the past.These things will take you everywhere you would likely want to go within a day or two riding range.

To be sure your next best consideration would be in the 250cc category,as others have mentioned, this will give you more power and stability on road and off ,but will likely blow your budget.

Big bikes (650cc +) are not necessary in this riding environment since there are not many places to open them up and coupled with the general habits of Thai-driving can = extreme danger.

Check out this link: http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/kawasaki-klx250s-review

Happy Trails!

[muchogra]

You guys are great furnishing information which helps me a great deal. My apology for not having stated what kind of rider I am.

Well, I have ridden only one motorcycle in my life and that was almost 30 years ago - a 550cc 4-cyl chopper. Did only 700 miles in 2 years on country roads in a US suburb. I have never thought of getting a motorcycle for all the years living in Bangkok. Now, Chiangmai is a different province and riding a bike on the countryside seems not so dangerous.

I accept that renting different bikes to test them out is a good idea. But, please don't laugh, it means actually riding the bike on roads with traffic without getting some confidence first. So, riding up and down Doi Suthep for testing them out is out of the question for me at the moment. I want to get a bike to initially ride it inside my moobaan and slowly progress from there.

With the information you guys have provided I'm leaning toward getting a Yamaha Spark 135i for now. It's automatic(?) and simple looking unlike those mean-looking Kawas (may look awkward for a newbie rider). The Honda Dream also sounds good but too bad it's not automatic. Once the confidence, skill, and experience increase, I will change to a meaner looking and more powerful one like those Kawas and CBR250 some have suggested. I think the dealer will deliver a bike to my house, right? I am on the second ring road between Doi Saket and Sankampaeng.

Thanks a lot to everyone.

[jkfkr]

With the information you guys have provided I'm leaning toward getting a Yamaha Spark 135i for now.

Do also consider the Honda PCX, which also falls into that category. I got one three months ago, and I am really impressed by it. I have done 4 000 km in the time I've had it, and it's been up Doi Inthanon, Doi Suthep, and around the Samoeng loop more times than I can remember.

Obviosly it's not as fast as the 250's, but it can cruise at over 90 km/h (GPS, not speedo speed) all day. Solid even at top speed, and nice around town. Big storage space under the seat.

I've never ridden the Spark, so I can't compare the two, but I'm really happy with my purchase. I ride a modern Vespa 250 in Finland, and in many regards the PCX is better. But don't tell any of my vespist friends I said that.

[jackr]

I'm with Pond Life. Forget tanks between your legs, scramblers, fat-arsed PCX automatics, or big bikes for these windy mountains roads, there's only one type of workhorse in this neck of the woods. The Dream/Wave 125 will go where the Kwacker 250s go (back-end of Doi Suthep, up or down) and handle the Pai road with aplomb. Taken most types of machine around there and nothing else is as easy for that type of setup. They don't look much, but you can go real hard on them and they'll keep dogging on, decent acceleration and some sort of engine-breaking in the hills, which you won't get on an auto. You can then also run around town, park up easy, and have much less chance of getting her half-inched as you would a PCX, etc. They're semi-auto and very easy to control, just bang it down and then back up, no clutch control. As said, good resale, too, easy on the fuel, cheap to keep ticking over, and everyone can fix them if for some daft reason it'd need fixing.

[naboo]

With the information you guys have provided I'm leaning toward getting a Yamaha Spark 135i for now. It's automatic(?) and simple looking unlike those mean-looking Kawas (may look awkward for a newbie rider). The Honda Dream also sounds good but too bad it's not automatic. Once the confidence, skill, and experience increase, I will change to a meaner looking and more powerful one like those Kawas and CBR250 some have suggested. I think the dealer will deliver a bike to my house, right? I am on the second ring road between Doi Saket and Sankampaeng.

Thanks a lot to everyone.

The Spark and the Dream have the same set-up, semi automatic which means gears but no manual clutch (earlier Sparks did have a clutch). My experience of learning to ride here involved a rented Honda Dream, a close inspection of all the bits to hand and foot and some simple directions from a friend, then hitting the road, very nervously. I'd recommend something similar initially, renting something like a Honda Dream (Honda Waves are more common in rental shops, with the same set up). Then, moving on to a 250cc for getting out into the mountains.

After renting a Dream for 3 months at 1200B a month (it was old, with a ripped seat, but ran very well) I bought a Honda Wave (4 years old) for 15,000B. 2 years later I sold the Wave for 13,000B (depreciation on these bikes is not a cause for concern!).

For getting into the mountains, once you're comfortable get yourself something in the 250cc range. There's the Kawasakis (KLX 250, D-Tracker and Versys 250), the Honda CB'R' 250 and then some relatively unknowns. I went for a Tiger Boxer 250cc, aware that it would have a few issues - hence the price tag of over 30% cheaper than the CBR250 and 50% less than the KLX or D-Tracker. It did have some issues, I got them sorted out and I now believe I have the perfect bike for riding in the mountains around Chiang Mai. Being a simple single carburetor engine, any roadside SomChai can (hopefully, not yet had a total breakdown) get it going again, unlike some of the other Japanese models available. However, the Boxer is not currently available new, though there is/was one available second hand in Chiang Mai.

Worth looking out for, Lifan may be bringing something to the market that may be more appealing in this area than a touring bike, which is what they offer so far.

Some pics:

Recommended initial rental:

A clutchless semi automatic Wave

Once experienced:

D-Tracker

KLX

CB'R' 250

Tiger Boxer

Lifan 250-19

[keo]

Should be able to pick up a Yamaha TW 200 with registration plates for 50 or 60K.

[TongueThaied]

I'm reading all these posts about a "big" 650 cc being too much for the twisties and a 125 being more suitable. I seem to see this sort of thing often. Have the people that are saying this stuff ever even ridden a bigger bike??? The thing that stabilizes a motorcycle is a function of “trail” and the gyroscopic effect of the spinning wheels. The physics is actually quite complicated, but one could say, with gross over-simplification, the bigger the wheels, the more stable with the perfect balance being where the best stability merges with not too much weight and the proper wheelbase. Sport bikes nail this formula perfectly. This is why they do not put the Dream’s bicycle wheel on the only slightly larger CBR150. Anybody who has ridden larger bikes, then gets on a Dream, can testify to the Dream's shaky instability. It's because of the "bicycle wheels" (in part) that they put on the Dream; the wheels are not heavy enough to generate much stability. And they also use tubed tires which are much less reliable, from a safety point of view, than tubeless tires at higher speeds.

I ride a 650, which is actually considered a small or entry level motorcycle anywhere else in the world. It handles great on ALL the twisties. I can't even imagine riding one of these 125 toys any distance. Fine around the moobahn at 25-30 kph, but Chiangmai to Mae Hong Son? If you eventually want to go anywhere out of town, get a decent bike and learn how to ride it. At least get a model with tubeless tires; that would be a start. If you just want transportation around town, get a Dream or equivalent.

[mrclough]

With the information you guys have provided I'm leaning toward getting a Yamaha Spark 135i for now. It's automatic(?) and simple looking unlike those mean-looking Kawas (may look awkward for a newbie rider). The Honda Dream also sounds good but too bad it's not automatic. Once the confidence, skill, and experience increase, I will change to a meaner looking and more powerful one like those Kawas and CBR250 some have suggested. I think the dealer will deliver a bike to my house, right? I am on the second ring road between Doi Saket and Sankampaeng.

Thanks a lot to everyone.

The Spark and the Dream have the same set-up, semi automatic which means gears but no manual clutch (earlier Sparks did have a clutch). My experience of learning to ride here involved a rented Honda Dream, a close inspection of all the bits to hand and foot and some simple directions from a friend, then hitting the road, very nervously. I'd recommend something similar initially, renting something like a Honda Dream (Honda Waves are more common in rental shops, with the same set up). Then, moving on to a 250cc for getting out into the mountains.

After renting a Dream for 3 months at 1200B a month (it was old, with a ripped seat, but ran very well) I bought a Honda Wave (4 years old) for 15,000B. 2 years later I sold the Wave for 13,000B (depreciation on these bikes is not a cause for concern!).

For getting into the mountains, once you're comfortable get yourself something in the 250cc range. There's the Kawasakis (KLX 250, D-Tracker and Versys 250), the Honda CB'R' 250 and then some relatively unknowns. I went for a Tiger Boxer 250cc, aware that it would have a few issues - hence the price tag of over 30% cheaper than the CBR250 and 50% less than the KLX or D-Tracker. It did have some issues, I got them sorted out and I now believe I have the perfect bike for riding in the mountains around Chiang Mai. Being a simple single carburetor engine, any roadside SomChai can (hopefully, not yet had a total breakdown) get it going again, unlike some of the other Japanese models available. However, the Boxer is not currently available new, though there is/was one available second hand in Chiang Mai.

Worth looking out for, Lifan may be bringing something to the market that may be more appealing in this area than a touring bike, which is what they offer so far.

Some pics:

Recommended initial rental:

A clutchless semi automatic Wave

Once experienced:

D-Tracker

KLX

CB'R' 250

Tiger Boxer

Lifan 250-19

Not sure where you have done your research but the Versys is 650 not 250.

A very suitable bike for the roads of Northern Thailand and arguably the best value for money in it's class

[naboo]

Not sure where you have done your research but the Versys is 650 not 250.

A very suitable bike for the roads of Northern Thailand and arguably the best value for money in it's class

Sorry, late night post. I was thinking of the baby Ninja, the Ninjette. Unfortunately I don't think a Versys is going to come in under budget for the OP.

[CMX]

I think that all those returning to two wheeled motoring, and/or those with little experience, or those starting out in Thailand, should begin with an automatic. We need all our attention to learn the customs of driving here, and dealing with the complexities of shifting in traffic detracts from that essential first step.

I'm not speaking about anyone for whom the task of shifting is practiced and current. Early riders in Asia have tons to learn, and while safety is always primary, achieving it at first involves a steep learning curve; fiddling with clutch and gears, at first, is more likely to lead to difficulties. Also, their light weight and low centers of gravity lend themselves to getting back on one's seat. One can move on later.

I do not put out of consideration that OP might well be satisfied Yamaha's Elegance, found also second hand, both as a starter bike and ultimate purchase.

Edited December 5, 2011 by CMX

[funcat]

I got the Honda Wave automatic...it is as the Dream,but without the hassle of changing gears...I'm ready for a bigger bike,so if you want this one I will consider to sell it....and can deliver ...

[amexpat]

Very well said, CMX. Safety first.

And even with frequent mountain trips the vast majority of riding will eventually be in city traffic.

[KRS1]

I'm with Pond Life. Forget tanks between your legs, scramblers, fat-arsed PCX automatics, or big bikes for these windy mountains roads, there's only one type of workhorse in this neck of the woods. The Dream/Wave 125 will go where the Kwacker 250s go (back-end of Doi Suthep, up or down) and handle the Pai road with aplomb. Taken most types of machine around there and nothing else is as easy for that type of setup. They don't look much, but you can go real hard on them and they'll keep dogging on, decent acceleration and some sort of engine-breaking in the hills, which you won't get on an auto. You can then also run around town, park up easy, and have much less chance of getting her half-inched as you would a PCX, etc. They're semi-auto and very easy to control, just bang it down and then back up, no clutch control. As said, good resale, too, easy on the fuel, cheap to keep ticking over, and everyone can fix them if for some daft reason it'd need fixing.

imagine going down a steep slippery slope either wet or scattered with sand, now imagine downshifting without a clutch and locking the back tires up causing you to slide downhill.

Now imagine you cant control the bike as well when a strong wind hits you or when your high siding an apex of a corner, or just going down that same hill your sliding down. On a bike with no tank the only place for control is your hands, with a tank you have two places to grip or pitch the bike from side to side, hands and knees.

Edited December 5, 2011 by KRS1

[wjmark]

Yup - Honda Wave (or Dream) 125, non-fuel-injection, semi-auto (don't go full auto), with larger and slightly knobby tires.

I bought my 125 5 years ago with 20,000km on it. It now has 55,000km, and runs just great.

Semi-auto is super easy - just up and down with gears - no clutch.

I also ride a CBR250, and a little Kawasaki dirt-bike. But I still recommend the Wave for a beginner. Sure, no tank for the knees, but still better than just having a 'floor' like a scooter...

I am sure that Yamahas and Suzukis are just fine, but ANYBODY can service a Honda.

Put bigger tires on the Wave - I just put on some over-sized VEE Rubber (good Thai brand) for 1100bt installed...

If you buy a second-hand bike, change the oil to 100% synthetic - runs cooler and smoother.

Cheers, Mark

[funcat]

Yup - Honda Wave (or Dream) 125, non-fuel-injection, semi-auto (don't go full auto), with larger and slightly knobby tires.

I bought my 125 5 years ago with 20,000km on it. It now has 55,000km, and runs just great.

Semi-auto is super easy - just up and down with gears - no clutch.

I also ride a CBR250, and a little Kawasaki dirt-bike. But I still recommend the Wave for a beginner. Sure, no tank for the knees, but still better than just having a 'floor' like a scooter...

I am sure that Yamahas and Suzukis are just fine, but ANYBODY can service a Honda.

Put bigger tires on the Wave - I just put on some over-sized VEE Rubber (good Thai brand) for 1100bt installed...

If you buy a second-hand bike, change the oil to 100% synthetic - runs cooler and smoother.

Cheers, Mark

"...non-fuel-injection, semi-auto (don't go full auto)..."can you explain that pls...I've had some semi-auto Waves before(and still have one),but I enjoy the fully automatic one better now...specially when having a passenger in the back shifting is difficult for me when sitting way up in front (I'm 6'1)...and fuel injection gets the mileage down...my thoughts ...and I do have slightly over sized tires,agree with that...changed them also on the "old" CBR 150

[muchogra]

Once again, thanks guys. It's a good lesson reading accounts from all you experienced riders of small to medium and large bikes.

CMX has spelled out exactly my concern as a re-entry starter to two-wheeled motoring. Here I quote him:

"I think that all those returning to two wheeled motoring, and/or those with little experience, or those starting out in Thailand, should begin with an automatic. We need all our attention to learn the customs of driving here, and dealing with the complexities of shifting in traffic detracts from that essential first step."

I guess, at the end, I desire a touring/cruising bike with some sporty look and easy maneuverability. Something like the CBR and Tiger Boxer shown in the pictures by naboo are my styles. The meaner looking Kawas I'm sure have great performance and reliability but I think they befit younger riders. I don't expect myself riding in rugged terrains for now.

Not long ago I sat on a CBR250 at a dealer. Didn't ride it but felt no confidence taking it into the traffic. Hence, I came in here for advice and I'm glad that I did. Here's what I plan to do from you guys' suggestions. Yes, rent it on a weekly basis first! How I didn't think of it until now to have the renter deliver it to my house for a few hundred bahts is beyond me. So dumb of me!

I will first rent on a weekly basis an automatic like the Click or Wave(is there a fully-automatic Wave?), then move on to a bigger and heavier automatic like the PCX. After some ride, I will switch to a Wave/Dreamer with gear and clutch. I'm no stranger to gear and clutch, just haven't done it for ages. Finally, when I feel comfortable with gear and clutch, I will move on to the CBR150 and 250. If the CBR comes out fine I will then buy a new one.

Can't wait to enjoy Chiang Mai for what it has to offer. Cheers!

[wjmark]

"...non-fuel-injection, semi-auto (don't go full auto)..."can you explain that pls...I've had some semi-auto Waves before(and still have one),but I enjoy the fully automatic one better now...specially when having a passenger in the back shifting is difficult for me when sitting way up in front (I'm 6'1)...and fuel injection gets the mileage down...my thoughts ...and I do have slightly over sized tires,agree with that...changed them also on the "old" CBR 150

Depends how 'back woods' he wants to go. For service issues, you can get a carb serviced or replaced anywhere. And the traditional semi-auto is also easily serviced. For fuel-injection, and the fully auto Waves, service or parts might be an issue.

Personally, I don't like 'autos' - I really like shifting. Also, if he has plans to ride a 'real' bike in the future, it's good to get used to gears...

The largest tire I could get on the front of my Wave is one size SMALLER than that supplied by the factory on the Philippines' Wave. They sure like skinny tires here in Thailand!

[wjmark]

After some ride, I will switch to a Wave/Dreamer with gear and clutch. I'm no stranger to gear and clutch, just haven't done it for ages. Finally, when I feel comfortable with gear and clutch, I will move on to the CBR150 and 250.

I am afraid you missed the big point about Waves. They do not have a clutch. Yes, they have gears you shift with your left foot. But no clutch lever for the left hand. They are semi-auto. You can sit at a red light in first gear without moving. Give it gas it goes.

The big learning curve will be from the Wave to a clutched bike 150 250 650 ...

As you are interested in a 'real' bike in the future, I suggest renting a regular Wave with gears. NO CLUTCH - just one foot shift lever.

Of course, if you are completely freaked out by even one gear lever, rent an auto-scooter for a while. But if you want to ride a 'real' bike in the future, you will need to learn to shift! And it is fun (and especially easy without a clutch).

[T_Dog]

Muchogra... Great thread you started, and a lot of good advice, although some posts contradict others. You are right that a motorcycle in Thailand is a great way to explore and sure gives one a feeling of freedom. Regarding your question, the answer for you is THAT BIKE that you like to ride in the way that you use it as well as how you like the look of it. I am still trying to answer the question you posed myself, but for me it is a light bike that can handle highways fine and still turn off the road at Mae Salong and follow jeep trails through the mountains. Motorcycles are just machines so find one that works well for you.

By the way, saw dozens of motorcycle groups up north over the past few days enjoying the long weekend. Big bikes, the Suzuki Speed Club from Bangkok, and 4 separate Thai groups from Bangkok headed to Pai on bikes smaller than 135cc. Looks like a lot of folks on all kinds of bikes were out having fun.

[funcat]

"...non-fuel-injection, semi-auto (don't go full auto)..."can you explain that pls...I've had some semi-auto Waves before(and still have one),but I enjoy the fully automatic one better now...specially when having a passenger in the back shifting is difficult for me when sitting way up in front (I'm 6'1)...and fuel injection gets the mileage down...my thoughts ...and I do have slightly over sized tires,agree with that...changed them also on the "old" CBR 150

Depends how 'back woods' he wants to go. For service issues, you can get a carb serviced or replaced anywhere. And the traditional semi-auto is also easily serviced. For fuel-injection, and the fully auto Waves, service or parts might be an issue.

Personally, I don't like 'autos' - I really like shifting. Also, if he has plans to ride a 'real' bike in the future, it's good to get used to gears...

The largest tire I could get on the front of my Wave is one size SMALLER than that supplied by the factory on the Philippines' Wave. They sure like skinny tires here in Thailand!

OK,I got your point...I always thought the same,when somewhere "in the woods"bad thin happens...well after 10 years here I've never(knock on wood) got stuck on my bikes,but I always ride Honda,or Yamaha made here...and I'm so glad that they finally made some changes and are making "bigger" capacity bikes in Thailand...CBR 250 is great,hope that they will come up with some bigger Phantom as well...I want them both,as I use to before......BTW,the automatic Wave it's really good for the beginners...if you need to learn clutch,that comes later..no problem