Saudi man who raped daughter sentenced to 2,080 lashes

[blackthorn2005]

The Saudis got this one right.

For a change, pity it went on for 7 years before being reported.

[koheesti]

I thought there was no such thing as rape in SA, or the world of Islam. And if someone has forced sex with a female, can't the perp marry the victim and all will be forgiven?

Can a father marry his own daughter?

[WarpSpeed]

There are two-sides to every story pal...

Would you care to elaborate on what you mean ...pal!

No ambiguity in what he means, certainly crying rape has never been used as a defense of ones virtue before, has it? Especially in a society where the punishment is so likely to be harsh for doing so, maybe even death..

JFYI not defending anyone here just explaining his meaning that escaped you.

As for the OP it does seem to be a worthwhile sentence on the Saudi's part though as another poster mentioned my concern now is for the young woman's safety in regards to a possible honor killing. I hope that was somehow addressed in the ruling and strict cautions expressed.

I understand that, but the case quoted above was quite clear. The man concerned admitted it and was jailed for 7 years (he was also a family member), and the woman was then jailed for two years for "Adultery by force) !!!!!, on appeal the woman had her sentence increased to 12 yrs and told she could only be released if she married her attacker !!!!, then final appeal 3 years without need for marriage. As a result of the rape she gave birth in prison to a daughter. Because of massive international process she has now been pardoned and released. Yep there is two sides to every story.

Well as I said I'm not defending anybody and I'm certainly not going to argue any sensibility in Muslim law in a defensive way as the common sense in most law is seldom present when it comes to Muslim law as a rule.

[Naam]

now waiting patiently for Amnesty International (perhaps invoking Green Peace too?) to bemoan the inhuman excesses of practised Wahhabi Sharia Law

Your snide mention on Green Peace is unwarranted, and you know it. Green Peace has no dealings whatsoever on this type of case.

AI is consistent on its positions. It is opposed to excessive physical punishment. In this case, as abhorent as the crime is, the punishment is excessive. The lashings are the equivalent of state sanctioned torture and AI is very clear in its opposition to such activity.

And btw, I am not a supporter of AI, but I do recognize that the organization serves an important role in the world, a role that keeps people with your views in check..

I thought in the past you were in agreement with waterboarding and Gitmo?

he is in agreement on everything i disagree. moreover, he never heard of irony

[toenail]

Saudi Arabia is still back in the Middle Ages -don't be fooled by its modern highways and towering glass structures. Women still are not allowed to drive, the religiois police (matawah) still strut around caning, yelling at expat and local Moslims that they need to go to the mosque during prayer time. Stores, restaurants have to close during the 20-40 minute prayers... restaurants and even fast food places such as Mc Donalds, Pizza Hut, Burger King have to have two seating areas (seperated with a wall) -one for families and one for males only. Meanwhile, rape is also done to the Filipino, Indonesian, Indian maids whose sponsor (a Saudi)holds their passport. Meanwhile the "holy Saudis" come to Thailand and hang out in Nana hitting Soi Cowboy and such , then fly back to their country acting like they are superior to others. Saudi Arabia has a long way to go to reach the 21st Century.

[koheesti]

Saudi Arabia has a long way to go to reach the 21st Century.

When it comes to handing down punishment for fathers who repeatedly rape their own daughters, 21st century is too soft, we need more Middle Ages justice.

[Naam]

Saudi Arabia has a long way to go to reach the 21st Century.

When it comes to handing down punishment for fathers who repeatedly rape their own daughters, 21st century is too soft, we need more Middle Ages justice.

the lenient sentence surprised me. Sharia Law clearly demands death penalty for that crime.

[HerbalEd]

now waiting patiently for Amnesty International (perhaps invoking Green Peace too?) to bemoan the inhuman excesses of practised Wahhabi Sharia Law

Hopefully you are a very patient person.

[HerbalEd]

I hope the victim fares better than the lady in Afghanistan that was raped and then sentenced to prison for adultery.

There are two-sides to every story pal...

In most of Afghanistan there is only one side to the story .... the man's.

[geriatrickid]

now waiting patiently for Amnesty International (perhaps invoking Green Peace too?) to bemoan the inhuman excesses of practised Wahhabi Sharia Law

Your snide mention on Green Peace is unwarranted, and you know it. Green Peace has no dealings whatsoever on this type of case.

AI is consistent on its positions. It is opposed to excessive physical punishment. In this case, as abhorent as the crime is, the punishment is excessive. The lashings are the equivalent of state sanctioned torture and AI is very clear in its opposition to such activity.

And btw, I am not a supporter of AI, but I do recognize that the organization serves an important role in the world, a role that keeps people with your views in check..

I thought in the past you were in agreement with waterboarding and Gitmo?

Opposed to waterboarding as it was practiced. Although I might see the merits in some cases, i.e. imminent loss of life, I defer to those in the military and legal field that oppose the practice.

In respect to Gitmo, it was a detention facility for battlefield combatants and others involved in terrorism. In any case, I fail to see how this is related to a man being sentenced to lashings. no one was lashed at the Guantanamo Bay facility. Lashing is a ghastly barbaric practice that rips the skin and peels it back exposing the open flesh to potentially deadly infections. If one wishes to impose the death penalty, then do it without the long term torture.

[Scott]

A baiting post has been deleted. Please stay on topic.

added: Make that posts.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Scott
edit added

[jimbeam1]

now waiting patiently for Amnesty International (perhaps invoking Green Peace too?) to bemoan the inhuman excesses of practised Wahhabi Sharia Law

Your snide mention on Green Peace is unwarranted, and you know it. Green Peace has no dealings whatsoever on this type of case.

AI is consistent on its positions. It is opposed to excessive physical punishment. In this case, as abhorent as the crime is, the punishment is excessive. The lashings are the equivalent of state sanctioned torture and AI is very clear in its opposition to such activity.

And btw, I am not a supporter of AI, but I do recognize that the organization serves an important role in the world, a role that keeps people with your views in check..

I thought in the past you were in agreement with waterboarding and Gitmo?

Opposed to waterboarding as it was practiced. Although I might see the merits in some cases, i.e. imminent loss of life, I defer to those in the military and legal field that oppose the practice.

In respect to Gitmo, it was a detention facility for battlefield combatants and others involved in terrorism. In any case, I fail to see how this is related to a man being sentenced to lashings. no one was lashed at the Guantanamo Bay facility. Lashing is a ghastly barbaric practice that rips the skin and peels it back exposing the open flesh to potentially deadly infections. If one wishes to impose the death penalty, then do it without the long term torture.

Lashing is a ghastly barbaric practice that rips the skin and peels it back exposing the open flesh to potentially deadly infections.

That is why you should always rub salt in afterwards?

He subjected his daughter to 7 years of torture. Seems to me a befitting penalty.

jb1

Edited December 12, 2011 by jimbeam1

[Scott]

An off-topic post removed. Let's stick to the issue of the OP.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[thaibeachlovers]

I hope the victim fares better than the lady in Afghanistan that was raped and then sentenced to prison for adultery.

My thoughts exactly. I'm wondering now what the punishment will be for the daughter who had the audacity to tempt him all these years?

Aside from the real possibility of the daughter bringing 'shame' on the family there is another reason convictions for rape are rare, namely under Sharia law a man's testimony is equal to that of two women so witnesses are an issue, except in this case where the police caught him with his trousers down.

When I was working there, I was told that it needed the testimony of 4 women in a rape case. If that's wrong, I expect someone will correct me.

[thaibeachlovers]

Saudi Arabia is still back in the Middle Ages -don't be fooled by its modern highways and towering glass structures. Women still are not allowed to drive, the religiois police (matawah) still strut around caning, yelling at expat and local Moslims that they need to go to the mosque during prayer time. Stores, restaurants have to close during the 20-40 minute prayers... restaurants and even fast food places such as Mc Donalds, Pizza Hut, Burger King have to have two seating areas (seperated with a wall) -one for families and one for males only. Meanwhile, rape is also done to the Filipino, Indonesian, Indian maids whose sponsor (a Saudi)holds their passport. Meanwhile the "holy Saudis" come to Thailand and hang out in Nana hitting Soi Cowboy and such , then fly back to their country acting like they are superior to others. Saudi Arabia has a long way to go to reach the 21st Century.

I once flew from Bahrain to Riyadh, sitting next to a Saudi that was excessively drunk. I guess prohibition doesn't work anywhere.

Anyway, the place was full of hypocrytes- the stories I heard about the parties the royals held in the desert- amazing. Of course I didn't get invited- only western females got to go.

I also got to hear about all the raped maids with babies in jail from a western woman that got sent there for being in a car with a man that was not a relative.

[maidu]

I hope the victim fares better than the lady in Afghanistan that was raped and then sentenced to prison for adultery.

My thoughts exactly. I'm wondering now what the punishment will be for the daughter who had the audacity to tempt him all these years?

Aside from the real possibility of the daughter bringing 'shame' on the family there is another reason convictions for rape are rare, namely under Sharia law a man's testimony is equal to that of two women so witnesses are an issue, except in this case where the police caught him with his trousers down.

At the very least, the girl will be haunted for life as unmarriagable and an outcast from her family - and probably from her community also (plus the obvious psychological scars from being repeatedly raped). I would bet the Saudis had to deal with this openly because they couldn't avoid it (the girl may have gone public, which is very brave of her). Most often, authorities will discipline the one who was raped and merely have a stern discussion with the rapist, and that's it.

As for rape according to Sharia Law: there must be four male witnesses who all attest to the crime, in order for a case to be taken seriously. If three men and fourteen women witnesses the rape, it doesn't stand up in court, because women don't account for anything legally.

[Scott]

From the OP: The authorities became first aware of the case when a relative of the victim's mother told police that the girl was being sexually assaulted by her father. Investigators, which included officers from the religious police, later arrived at the man's house while he was abusing his daughter.

It was a relative who came forward and it seems like they had the appropriate number of witnesses with investigators, including the religious police catching him in the act. I assume most of those people were men.

[koheesti]

Lashes and prison for the incestual rapist, death for the scorceress...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/8951248/Saudi-Arabia-executes-woman-convicted-of-sorcery.html

[maidu]

For each case exposed, thousands get swept under the table. What miserable prospects, to be born female in an Arab country.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.