Taxi Fare Hike Must Be Reasonable: Thai Transport Minister

[Thai at Heart]

Fair to whom?

[IsaanUSA]

Fair to whom?

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but I assume they mean fair to the drivers.

[David48]

Would be nice if they checked the meters every now and again to see that passengers are being charged correctly. More and more it seems to me the meters have been tampered with.

A new (to me) scam that almost worked recently was, when leaving Swampy earlier this year, the driver repeatedly pressed the 'Flag Fall' meter and it magicially went to 70 as we exited the off ramp from the airport.

He reversed it quickly when I mentioned it.

[David48]

Maybe you can travel by air-con bus but a lot can't.....not everyone can and does live a short walk from a major road. I'd wager more don't than do...hence my original statement....

Bus routes in Bangkok are very extensive, and tens of thousands of buses service the city, air-con or otherwise.

Given the vast majority of Bangkokians use buses over any other methods of public transport, I'd take that wager.

Umm ... reference?

According to which authority you contact there are between 118 and 139 'official' bus routes servicing Bangkok.

Even if you added some more bus routes to account for 'un-official' routes that leaves tens of thousands of buses (say 30,000 to be kind to you) / 150 routes ... that would give you 200 buses per route!

Just think about the logic. There 60,000 taxis ... I'm seeing more then 2 taxis for every bus and I am currently living way south of the Airport and being white is a definite rarity.

Please engage the grey matter before posting.

... on a different note, because the call for the price rise relates directly to the cost of the fuel, why not raise the cost per kilometre driven to compensate for the fuel hike, rather then the flag fall from 35 to 50 Baht?

Remember also that the vast majority of Taxi users are not us Farangs, but indeed Thai people and 50 Baht accounts for up to a quarter of their daily wage if they are earning the reported minimum 200 baht per day.

[bkkjames]

David, sorry to disagree but 200 baht a day workers don't take taxis.

[mca]

I think it's fair to subsidize through fare increases the taxi driver's mobile phone bill as in about half the times I've taken a taxi in BKK the bloke's on the phone to his controller asking how to get to our destination. Lesser known places like Pullman King Power hotel.....

[dartvidar]

They say it all .... There are too many taxis in Bangkok .. how can they make some living with such competition ?

Price increase by 42% in start price is a lot if you ask me. As of today most Taxi drivers in Bangkok have 2-3 times more salary than the suggested minimum wages of 300 Baht pr day. The companies who rent out taxis do also have good profit. They charge 800-1000 Baht pr day for a new taxi, and around 500-700 Baht for old taxis. That's mean if they buy a new taxi they can pay it down in 1-2 years time, and that's good business if you ask me. If it's 70 000 taxis in Bangkok today, I don't believe it's only market for 35 000 Taxis, the demand is probably something between. It's very often problems to get a taxi during peak hours or rain. "Not many Thai people are affected by the price hike for Taxis, because they use busses etc" This is just bull shit. If they today have 70 000 taxis in Bangkok and each taxi have an average of 20 trips pr day with 2 person's pr trip. That's mean this will affect 2.8 million people pr day in Bangkok, and that is just some few people? It looks like some officials have been offered a good deal from the taxi mafia in Bangkok if they manage to increase the taxi prices. They should rather spend their time to go to Phuket and implement a start price of 50 Baht for Taxis and Tuk Tuks.

Edited December 20, 2011 by metisdead
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[dartvidar]

David, sorry to disagree but 200 baht a day workers don't take taxis.

I think you have wrong there. Just wait outside shopping malls etc after closing time, you see many staff from the shops etc jump into taxis, and they try to get many as possible into the taxi for saving money. This is peoples who earn 200-300 Baht pr day.

Edited December 20, 2011 by metisdead
Font.

[David48]

David, sorry to disagree but 200 baht a day workers don't take taxis.

James , I agree with you ... most Thais on the minimum wage coundn't afford the taxi.

What I did want to bring to the arguement is while the flag fall raising from 35 to 50 baht is a mear dollar or two for us it represents a large proportion of an 'ordinary' Thai's salary.

Really like your posts ... keep me and the others honest!

[DP25]

David, sorry to disagree but 200 baht a day workers don't take taxis.

They will take taxis too. Often in groups, but alone too. Lots of low salaried workers will use them, maybe not every day to and from work but they do use them. If someone misses the bus to work and they are running late they will hop in a taxi, better to spend the baht than get fired. They will use them to go out with friends at night and to get home. Most people use them on occasion except for the rich who have their own drivers.

Much different than where I am from where normal people basically only use them in an emergency. Last time I used one at home after a night out drinking, it was almost $50 to get home

Edited December 20, 2011 by DP25

[Thai at Heart]

Fair to whom?

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but I assume they mean fair to the drivers.

That is far too simple.

LPG suppliers, car manufacturers, taxi companies, consumers? But look what happens when the govt gets involved in setting the price for something as mundane as taxis. Drivers make little, taxi companies make a boat load, consumers get overly cheap taxis so the roads are clogged with them.

Great business for Toyota though

[draftvader]

i find most taxi's i have been in DO know their way around. a few messed up but its a few.

and i think they do deserve a little more for their service as the fare has only risen once in 12 or 13 years.

so i usually tip ( but only if they offer good service and arent traffic whiners.)

"He said it is due to the fact that there are currently 70,000 taxis in service in Bangkok while the demand is only for 35,000."

so the blindingly obvious answer to the problem is.........

a race?

[haveaniceday]

Can anyone shed any light on this comment re price rise?

"liquefied petroleum gas price goes up by nine baht and the compressed natural gas price goes up by six baht next year. "

[sparebox2]

Would be nice if they checked the meters every now and again to see that passengers are being charged correctly. More and more it seems to me the meters have been tampered with.

A new (to me) scam that almost worked recently was, when leaving Swampy earlier this year, the driver repeatedly pressed the 'Flag Fall' meter and it magicially went to 70 as we exited the off ramp from the airport.

He reversed it quickly when I mentioned it.

They are inspected by govt annually (Ministry of Land Transport)..

However, I don't know if they have to pay the govt official?

[gregb]

No doubt the Bangkok taxi fares can stand a hike. But why would they want to increase the flag charge and not the charge per distance (or both)? Seems that way the drivers would 'lose' on longer drives, considering the fuel price hike.

The largest segment of a taxi driver's fuel expenses are due to driving around and looking for a fare, rather than the distance involved in the fare itself. Since standing taxi queues are not practical in most areas of the city, this driving around behavior is part of the necessary cost of each and every fare, and is uncorrelated with the distance travelled.

Thus, it is completely logical to raise the flag drop. There will probably also be an increase in the per km rate. Both should be changed, with the flag drop absorbing most of the increase.

[gregb]

Can anyone shed any light on this comment re price rise?

"liquefied petroleum gas price goes up by nine baht and the compressed natural gas price goes up by six baht next year. "

There has been no official announcement on LPG to my knowledge. The increase in LPG has been announced in previous years and never implemented due to pressure. The original idea behind pricing was to incentivize taxis and drivers to switch from LPG to NGV. Thus NGV was kept low and LPG was supposed to float.

Since no government had the cajones to do what was necessary and force the price of LPG to rise, they pissed away several years of NGV subsidies and failed to meet their objectives. But since PTT is tired of paying for it, they are officially raising the price of NGV 50 satang per month in 2012 starting Jan. 1, for a total increase of 6 baht per kg (from 8.50 to 14.50) over the course of the year.

It would therefore make sense that they have to raise the price of LPG by more than this if they still want to get people to change fuels, but I don't think there has been an official policy statement about this particular issue yet.

[gregb]

Fair to whom?

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but I assume they mean fair to the drivers.

That is far too simple.

LPG suppliers, car manufacturers, taxi companies, consumers? But look what happens when the govt gets involved in setting the price for something as mundane as taxis. Drivers make little, taxi companies make a boat load, consumers get overly cheap taxis so the roads are clogged with them.

Great business for Toyota though

There have been hundreds of studies done throughout the world with regard to regulated, standardized fares vs. competitive rates between different carriers. Without fail, the public and the drivers are shown to benefit more by a regulated industry with standardized fares vs. an unregulated, competitive environment.

Fuel rates have been held constant for the most part over the last decade so there has been no reason to increase fares. When people say taxi fares are cheap here, they are cheap because the government has been subsidizing the fuel used. They were cheap by design.

Taxi rates were actually adjusted 2 years ago when the flag drop rate was moved from 35 baht for 2.5 km to 35 baht for 2 km and increased per km rates after the flag drop. So the drivers are being well compensated by the current tariffs. The very fact that people here are talking about salaries in the range of 20,000 per month shows that the drivers are solidly middle class. Most office workers don't make this much, and even university professors working in the state school system are often not paid this well. The various governments to date have done an excellent job of balancing the public good with driver income.

Now, because they are raising the NGV price, they are going to have to raise taxi fares. This is also both obvious and responsible of the transport department. Thailand has many problems, but they have a very, very good policy on taxis. The current unrestricted entry is due to the law which was written to prohibit the kind of predatory monopoly practices which were prevalent back in the 70's when metered taxis were adopted. Unrestricted entry with regulated tariffs will allow the driver's income to meet supply and demand. If a driver is not being properly compensated, he can go work in a factory or in construction. But all of these jobs pay less. So even if there is an oversupply of taxis, they are still being well compensated for their efforts. As soon as this isn't the case, the number of taxis will start to fall.

The only problem with this is that those who drop out from driving taxis tend to be the honest ones, leaving the most ruthless and dishonest of the bunch who know how to scam for a living. So the government needs to step up their enforcement of taxi tariffs to prevent the cheating that is starting to become commonplace.

I applaud the way the government has managed the taxis to date, and I hope they continue along their current very enlightened path.

[whybother]

<snip>

Taxi rates were actually adjusted 2 years ago when the flag drop rate was moved from 35 baht for 2.5 km to 35 baht for 2 km and increased per km rates after the flag drop.

<snip>

New taxi fares take effect today (3 July 2008)

The new rates will start at 35 baht for the first kilometre, not two kilometres as before.

The fares will then be five baht a kilometre for the 2nd-12th kilometres, 5.50 baht a kilometre for the 12th-20th kilometres, six baht a kilometre for the 20th-40th kilometres, 6.50 baht a kilometre for the 40th-60th kilometres, 7.50 baht a kilometre for the 60th-80th kilometres and 8.50 baht a kilometre beyond that.

Edited December 20, 2011 by whybother

[scotbeve]

They say it all .... There are too many taxis in Bangkok .. how can they make some living with such competition ?

Spot on! Ridiculous isn't it?

[samran]

They say it all .... There are too many taxis in Bangkok .. how can they make some living with such competition ?

Spot on! Ridiculous isn't it?

well they must be making a living otherwise they wouldn't be doing it would they?

[smutcakes]

I personally cannot comprehend how there can be so much negativity and whinging on this thread with regards the price hike from 35 to 50 baht. I have not lived here to long and probably only take a few taxis a week, but in the years I have been here, I would say on average maybe I have a couple of dodgy experiences a year with a driver not knowing where they are going etc. It really is not a massive drama or in anyway frequent. Just simply ask politely for the driver to pull over and wait for another taxi, or assist the driver with the directions if he is a bit lost and you know where you are going.

I have no idea how people on here have so many issues with everything? It seems that everyone has been scammed by taxi drivers, police, etc etc, I am begginning to wonder whether many foreginers simply lack common decency and manners which makes them susceptible to annoying the locals who subsequently try and rip them off.

I for one think the taxi services in Bangkok, in the main are clean, reliable, extremely cheap, (possibly some of the cheapest in the world?) and for the most part the drivers seem decent enough if you are polite to them.

I for one will be happy to pay the additional 15 baht. Good luck to them.

[sparebox2]

I personally cannot comprehend how there can be so much negativity and whinging on this thread with regards the price hike from 35 to 50 baht. I have not lived here to long and probably only take a few taxis a week, but in the years I have been here, I would say on average maybe I have a couple of dodgy experiences a year with a driver not knowing where they are going etc. It really is not a massive drama or in anyway frequent. Just simply ask politely for the driver to pull over and wait for another taxi, or assist the driver with the directions if he is a bit lost and you know where you are going.

I have no idea how people on here have so many issues with everything? It seems that everyone has been scammed by taxi drivers, police, etc etc, I am begginning to wonder whether many foreginers simply lack common decency and manners which makes them susceptible to annoying the locals who subsequently try and rip them off.

I for one think the taxi services in Bangkok, in the main are clean, reliable, extremely cheap, (possibly some of the cheapest in the world?) and for the most part the drivers seem decent enough if you are polite to them.

I for one will be happy to pay the additional 15 baht. Good luck to them.

"I for one will be happy to pay the additional 15 baht."

You must be Farang.

15 bahts means a lot to many local thai people. It could mean a full meal.

[Payboy]

What motivates someone in Isaan to sell the farm and move to Bangkok to become its 70,001st taxi driver?

[elwood]

I personally cannot comprehend how there can be so much negativity and whinging on this thread with regards the price hike from 35 to 50 baht. I have not lived here to long and probably only take a few taxis a week, but in the years I have been here, I would say on average maybe I have a couple of dodgy experiences a year with a driver not knowing where they are going etc. It really is not a massive drama or in anyway frequent. Just simply ask politely for the driver to pull over and wait for another taxi, or assist the driver with the directions if he is a bit lost and you know where you are going.

I have no idea how people on here have so many issues with everything? It seems that everyone has been scammed by taxi drivers, police, etc etc, I am begginning to wonder whether many foreginers simply lack common decency and manners which makes them susceptible to annoying the locals who subsequently try and rip them off.

I for one think the taxi services in Bangkok, in the main are clean, reliable, extremely cheap, (possibly some of the cheapest in the world?) and for the most part the drivers seem decent enough if you are polite to them.

I for one will be happy to pay the additional 15 baht. Good luck to them.

Welcome to the forum - you will find that negativity and whinging is standard fare on TV. And you are not allowed to know the secret members handshake until you have made fifty complaints of being scammed, robbed, cheated or left heart-broken by an evil Thai. And if you dare to say anything mildly in favour of the locals you will be attacked as a rose-tinted glasses-wearing idiot.

Wait until you check out the General section!

[cbc]

I have taken many taxis in BKK who don't want to use the meter,have to argue with them to use the meter. In reference to earlier post about the meter's may be tampered with i agree.Just took a taxi on wednesday in BKK from Baiyoke sky hotel to Mo Chit bus station.Not two month's ago the fare was not quite 100 baht.This time with meter taxi it was 130 baht plus.

Also,anyone on here use the meter taxi at chiang mai airport ?They advertise meter taxi down town flat rate 120 baht.Why advertise meter taxi and charge 120 baht flat rate ?They never use the meter !They want 120 baht to go to hillside 3 on nimmanhaemen rd and they take the short cut through the airfiel,about 5 to 8 minute drive.Now i always take a tuk tuk or song taew.No wonder they lose tourists here when the first timer visiting here gets ripped off at the point of entry via air.

[outofoz]

50 baht flag fall seems fair enough. Taxis in bkk are very cheap. I don't know how they make any money with the cost of fuel as it is.

One downside to the increase in flag fall to 50 baht is that more taxi drivers will only want to do shorter trips, as they will make more money at the end of the day. It can be difficult now to get some drivers to go the longer distances.

[Cheops]

Fares haven't kept up with inflation because supply has greatly exceeded demand and service standards and regulation have not improved. In fact standards have probably worsened; safety certainly has.

I am continually amazed at taxi drivers when I am in a Bangkok cab; exceeding the speed limits, dangerous driving, tailgating etc. Do these idiots not care if they have passengers?

When I get a decent one that knows where he's going and drives safely it is a refreshing, although rare experience.

Do these idiots not care if they have passengers?

No, they don't. The same goes for van and bus-drivers. Absolutely no responsibility feeling at all!

[Cheops]

Bangkok taxis are very cheap, even compared to poorer neighbouring countries.

What is annoying:

* drivers are the rudest people you can find in Thailand. Not all, but many.

* drivers don't have any clue where to go

* drivers don't take you when not in mood

* drivers take you only for fixed price at certain times/places (RCA at 2am)

* crazy driving.

* when it's heavily raining, no taxis to be found or only fixed price scam.

What is annoying about busses:

* many go off their normal route and nobody tells you.

* many don't stop to pick up passengers when driver is not in mood

* many don't wait to let passengers enter or exit

* there is no correct bus route/time information anywhere. A ridiculous website from BMTA was programmed by a 8 years old child supposedly.

* even the information at bus stops is often wrong or outdated.

Third world standards, but at least in this case we have third world prices.

Very good summary!

And about "A ridiculous website from BMTA was programmed by a 8 years old child supposedly."

Well, most Thai websites are like that. Either programmed by a 8 year old or super-busy with every character flashing etc. (or both)

Ohh, I just visited the BMTA site (after I wrote my previous sentence). Well, actually it doesn't look that bad. The site is quite clean and good to navigate unlike most Thai flashy websites! And their English option is REALLY English, unlike most Thai websites (including big companies) who just make the menu's in English and the content kept in Thai (= totally useless). So in the end, the BMTA website is quite a good website!! (not sure when you checked the last time the website of the BMTA, could be that they just changed it.

[Cheops]

I personally cannot comprehend how there can be so much negativity and whinging on this thread with regards the price hike from 35 to 50 baht. I have not lived here to long and probably only take a few taxis a week, but in the years I have been here, I would say on average maybe I have a couple of dodgy experiences a year with a driver not knowing where they are going etc. It really is not a massive drama or in anyway frequent. Just simply ask politely for the driver to pull over and wait for another taxi, or assist the driver with the directions if he is a bit lost and you know where you are going.

I have no idea how people on here have so many issues with everything? It seems that everyone has been scammed by taxi drivers, police, etc etc, I am begginning to wonder whether many foreginers simply lack common decency and manners which makes them susceptible to annoying the locals who subsequently try and rip them off.

I for one think the taxi services in Bangkok, in the main are clean, reliable, extremely cheap, (possibly some of the cheapest in the world?) and for the most part the drivers seem decent enough if you are polite to them.

I for one will be happy to pay the additional 15 baht. Good luck to them.

"I for one will be happy to pay the additional 15 baht."

You must be Farang.

15 bahts means a lot to many local thai people. It could mean a full meal.

+1. Obviously smutcakes thinks that every Thai makes enough money.

@ smutcakes. I don't whine about the price of a taxi ride, which is indeed cheap for most of foreigners (although a 40% price-hike for many Thais is a lot), BUT let's face it, Taxi drivers don't care about their passengers. True, there are some good guys out there, but from the times I have taken a taxi over the 6,5 years that I live here I can say about 50% of the drivers are quite bad: rude, speeding, racing, don't help people in/out of the taxi (my wife with 2 children for example complains quite a lot about bad behaving taxi drivers).

[KKvampire]

50 bht starting rate? and then the traffic jams, so its Bye Bye Bangkok taxis for me