Extradited For Non Payemnt Of Credit Card

[StreetCowboy]

I find this extraordinary interesting, and I'm sure others do as well.

One thing I'm wondering is if a country where a dept is considered a crime, let's say Dubai, couldn't Dubai get someone extradited for failing o pay the debt?

My understanding is that debt is not a crime in Dubai - bouncing cheques, on the other hand, is a crime.

My understanding is that there is a crime that is related to being unable to pay one's debts - possibly the bouncing of cheques - but that once the time is served for that crime, it is difficult for the bank to pursue the matter further. If i recall correctly, normally, loans are secured against post-dated cheques, and when those bounce, the debtor becomes a criminal.

However, this is second-hand understanding from someone who spent the night in cells, and was then released (on bail?) with a very tight deadline to arrange a settlement with the bank so that they would drop charges. He had been lifted at customs while on an overland visa run...

He noted that some of his cell-mates were planning on spending some months in jail, having lived the life of Reilly on borrowed money, and, having done their time and paid for their crimes (but not the debt) they were intending to move on unrepentant and unrepaid to pastures green and new

SC

[marstons]

obviously though not related no extradition treaty is in place with Dubai other wise Mr T would be back, but the debt is in the UK as stated by OP, as for cannot mange debts and live in Thailand my ex wife has £25k of debts in the UK and is still happily living here in her brand new house. and all the letters go to my UK address so i contact them from here and they all agreed well no chance of getting that and stopped writing. basically th ecourts take the view dumb enough to lend it, so som nam na as the thai's say. i aint worth them chasing it, she even got a christmas card last year from Tesco wishing her happy christmas and a 30% reduction on the debt

Edited December 22, 2011 by marstons

[GentlemanJim]

obviously though not related no extradition treaty is in place with Dubai other wise Mr T would be back, but the debt is in the UK as stated by OP, as for cannot mange debts and live in Thailand my ex wife has £25k of debts in the UK and is still happily living here in her brand new house. and all the letters go to my UK address so i contact them from here and they all agreed well no chance of getting that and stopped writing. basically th ecourts take the view dumb enough to lend it, so som nam na as the thai's say. i aint worth them chasing it, she even got a christmas card last year from Tesco wishing her happy christmas and a 30% reduction on the debt

I think that possibly the most valuable piece of information on here is from Autan, when he says never to take out an IVA as then unsecured debt becomes secured. I never knew that (I am sure most ordinary folks don't) and all these companies in the UK offering to 'negotiate on your behalf and set up an IVA know they are setting a trap for you. That piece of information is a complete game changer! As marstons suggests you can rack up as much unsecured debt as you like and simply not pay back, accept the train wreck on your credit rating and that is it.

Further to my comments on Dubai Street cowboy's first paragraph is correct. If you take a loan for example in Dubai you will have to sign loads of post-dated cheques, fail to keep up your payments and they will present one or more of your cheques , when it bounces an arrest warrant will be issued. It seems most people get 1 month in jail for each bounced cheque, AFTER that you remain in debtors prison until the debt is paid. The debt never goes away regardless of time. They have a saying that you die before the debt. If you are in any way close to a situation or know someone that is then start a google adventure, there is much information out there and it is too serious a situation to rely on advice on an anonymous forum.

[endure]

You creditors cannot take court action against you in the UK as you are not a UK resident.

WRONG !

Not wrong at all, county court action can only be initiated against somebody resident in the UK. I certainly tried tried to take somebody to court, I was not able to do so as the person was out of jurisdiction. You need to provide the court with a UK address to serve the summons.

Maybe you could do more than provide a one word answer and give the person seeking help the benefit of your knowledge.

this is right after 6 years it becomes statute barred as long as you dont contact or make any payments ,even one letter or phone call from you starts the clock ticking again

Unless you acknowledge the debt in that letter or phone call this is simply not true. Best the OP goes to the forum I mentioned in a previous post. They Do know what they're talking about.

[bartender100]

This may be a time where filing for bankrupcy may be a answer. You will have to surrender your passport for a little while. Lose much of your assets but then you make a fresh start.

Please ignore this, they will not take your passport away if you are made bankrupt. Bankrupcy usually last for a year and is painless if you have no UK asserts only CC debt.

Seek advise on Bankruptcy forums, not on here.

Edited December 22, 2011 by bartender100

[chonabot]

10. Never enter into an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement), this turns any unsecured debts into secured debts which means they can reposses your home in the UK if they so wish.

Not so - many IVA's are set up for people without a property - the OP does not have a property.

The IVA will freeze interest and the IP ( insolvency practitioner ) will get the debt reduced to a manageable sum.

The IVA companies have a lot of power with regards controlling the Creditors - this is the best route to take if the debtor has no property ( and a debt of over 20k )

If the debtor owns a property, there is usually a clause in the IVA that requires an equity release in the final year ( IVA's are usually 5 year plans )

If the debtor is unable to release equity at that time, the Creditors will allow for an extra 12 months to cover that sum - or whatever the debtor can afford.

Many IVA's reduce to debt by at least 50% sometimes as much as 80%.

One year after the IVA ends - all traces of the insolvency must be erased from the Credit file.

Edited December 23, 2011 by chonabot

[chonabot]

This may be a time where filing for bankrupcy may be a answer. You will have to surrender your passport for a little while. Lose much of your assets but then you make a fresh start.

Please ignore this, they will not take your passport away if you are made bankrupt. Bankrupcy usually last for a year and is painless if you have no UK asserts only CC debt.

Seek advise on Bankruptcy forums, not on here.

Painless?

Try Painful - after the bankruptcy ends it takes an age to ever qualify for a mortgage/credit - regardless of your income.

Edited December 23, 2011 by chonabot

[chonabot]

One point so far not mentioned regards debts and insolvency - In the UK ( not sure where else ) when you apply for a job in a Financial Institution , and many other sectors,

the prospective employee is required to sign a release form that allows the company to run a credit check on them.

I know this for a fact - early last year I was looking for agency work as an IT contractor - atl least 70% of the time I was required to sign such a release.

The thought behind it is fairly simple - but can appear harsh - The company - particularly a financially based institution - would not wish to have an employee who could not control his/hers own finances - especially if they were applying for a position requiring a lot of trust .

I was required to do thiswhen applying for IT positions in Banks/Insurance companies, even local Government positions - and my own line of expertise ( UNIX sys admin ) would never see me anywhere near a cash related position.

Most jobs offered in the UK for a Government related institution will require a full disclosure report - this includes a full credit check for Experian/Equifax.

Edited December 23, 2011 by chonabot

[kjhbigv]

Effectively nothing will happen until you return to the UK. Then you will find it impossible to get a loan or mortgage or any other type of credit.

Better to renegotiate in my opinion but they are unlikely to chase you all the way to Thailand unless its a huge sum of course.

Edit: Just read the amounts. They won't be pursuing you over here. But you can expect plenty of unpleasantness and huge bills should you return.

As already mentioned, if you do nothing the debt will steadily grow and grow.

If your doing OK in Thailand why not send some token payments, to at least offset monthly interest charges so it doesn't grow any bigger.

I would not bother, your credit rating with Experian etc will still be damaged, you will get a DEFAULT which effectively will stop you getting any more credit/loans/mortgages especially in today's credit climate.

The card company will not chase you here for the debt, if you have no assets in the UK, not much they will do about it, eventually will be written off.....very similar to the banks that lost OUR billions, which the taxpayer had to write off! For them though, business as usual!

Any nominal payments are a waste of time, the debt will STILL affect your credit rating. If you leave it, it will eventually become a CCJ.

[kjhbigv]

This is an area of expertise that I can offer here. Here are the facts.

In answer to your question, NO you cannot be extradited for a non payment of a credit card.

1. A credit card is classified as unsecured lending. This means if you do not pay the debt (the outstanding balance), the credit card company has to obtain a CCJ (County Court Judgement) if the debt is under 5000 GBP or a High Court Writ if it is over 5000 GBP.

2. You are under no obligation to pay an unsecured debt in England. This means you are expected to make payments as per your credit agreement but you are not obliged to pay.

3. If you stop making payments, the credit card company will attempt to call, write to you for around 90 days. If they cannot reach you, then they must issue a Default Notice. A Default Notice ends the credit agreement as you are now obliged NOT to use the credit card again as this would be a criminal offence under the theft act 2006.

4. Once a default notice has been issued, it is very difficult to obtain credit in the UK again for the next 6 years. After 6 years the notice will drop off your credit file if paid or not.

5. if you make an arrangement with a credit card company and further default then this 6 year period will start whenever they really want it to start, if you make no effort to pay, the 6 year period will start when they issue the default notice.

6. A debt collector must be licenced to collect debts in a foreign country in order to chase a debtor who has moved countries. At present there are only 4 firms in the UK that are licenced to chase debts and non of them have chased a debt for less than 20k, so unless your outstanding balance is more than that and you have no intention to return to the UK for the next 6 years, you could stop paying them and return to the UK in 6 years time thank you very much.

7. If a CCJ or HCW is issued against you the Bailiffs (upon obtaining a warrant of execution) can legally remove any cars belonging to you in the UK. If you are present they can levy prices against goods you own. Be Aware.

8. Oweing money is no longer a criminal offense and so you are untouchable in Thailand, its the UK and any property (not houses but everything), you have there that is at risk.

9. If you rang up your credit card company and explained you are in Thailand with little chance of return but you wish to come to a negotiated settlement, you make find them very co-operative as the alternative is they get nothing or very little.

10. Never enter into an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement), this turns any unsecured debts into secured debts which means they can reposses your home in the UK if they so wish.

Correct answer, why people make shot in the dark answers i dont know. OP you have a UK credit card debt, i worked for Egg in loans department, this is how it is as posted in this post. post saying extraditions orders!!! why post about some thing you know nothing about. Personally i would take it on the chin and pay nothing, it is covered in the intrest rates they charge and i will be sold on very quickly. just for the record Experian and Equifax keep the credit history, and all credit agencies go through them

+1 The most accurate description of what happens....don't believe some of the rubbish that people suggest...eg.sending people around the planet to chase a small debt like this....absolute rubbish!

[MrsMills]

Had a friend of mine who fled the UK after getting unsecured Bank loans and maxing out all his credit cards, he lived in Thailand for 13 years, went back to the UK fearing the worse, nothing happened, he couldn't open a bank account with some banks but could in others, he never paid back anything and there were no arrest warrants issued.

[Kwasaki]

This is an area of expertise that I can offer here. Here are the facts.

In answer to your question, NO you cannot be extradited for a non payment of a credit card.

1. A credit card is classified as unsecured lending. This means if you do not pay the debt (the outstanding balance), the credit card company has to obtain a CCJ (County Court Judgement) if the debt is under 5000 GBP or a High Court Writ if it is over 5000 GBP.

2. You are under no obligation to pay an unsecured debt in England. This means you are expected to make payments as per your credit agreement but you are not obliged to pay.

3. If you stop making payments, the credit card company will attempt to call, write to you for around 90 days. If they cannot reach you, then they must issue a Default Notice. A Default Notice ends the credit agreement as you are now obliged NOT to use the credit card again as this would be a criminal offence under the theft act 2006.

4. Once a default notice has been issued, it is very difficult to obtain credit in the UK again for the next 6 years. After 6 years the notice will drop off your credit file if paid or not.

5. if you make an arrangement with a credit card company and further default then this 6 year period will start whenever they really want it to start, if you make no effort to pay, the 6 year period will start when they issue the default notice.

6. A debt collector must be licenced to collect debts in a foreign country in order to chase a debtor who has moved countries. At present there are only 4 firms in the UK that are licenced to chase debts and non of them have chased a debt for less than 20k, so unless your outstanding balance is more than that and you have no intention to return to the UK for the next 6 years, you could stop paying them and return to the UK in 6 years time thank you very much.

7. If a CCJ or HCW is issued against you the Bailiffs (upon obtaining a warrant of execution) can legally remove any cars belonging to you in the UK. If you are present they can levy prices against goods you own. Be Aware.

8. Oweing money is no longer a criminal offense and so you are untouchable in Thailand, its the UK and any property (not houses but everything), you have there that is at risk.

9. If you rang up your credit card company and explained you are in Thailand with little chance of return but you wish to come to a negotiated settlement, you make find them very co-operative as the alternative is they get nothing or very little.

10. Never enter into an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement), this turns any unsecured debts into secured debts which means they can reposses your home in the UK if they so wish.

autan

A simply brilliant post thanks!

For sure good stuff, makes me think about Thai immigration and extensions etc.

[Berkshire]

Anyone so incompetent at managing money as the OP can't possibly live in Thailand for 6 years.

Agreed. This guy is toast in the hands of an experienced BG.

[randy22801]

I had the same problem with bills in Canada. I contacted a lawyer there, tried to renegotiate payments, the creditors refused. My lawyer then told me that if I don't plan on returning to live in Canada for the next 7 years don't worry about making any payments as my credit will be wiped out and cleaned after the 7 years has passed.

Not sure if it's the same for you in the UK.

[lomatopo]

Are there any issues renewing a passport?

I recall some threads/posts in the past, specific to the U.S. admittedly, mentioning that they were checking for failing to file a 1040 (even if no tax was owed), non-payment of student-loans and alimony/child-support, and denying issuance of a new passport.

[theoldgit]

^^^^ Certainly not in the UK, which is where the OP is from.

The only problem you might encounter renewing a UK passport is if you had failed to repay a loan from the FCO.

[F4UCorsair]

If you feel bad about this, and you've always paid your debts as you say, continue to do so. It's irresponsible, immoral, and a cop out to do otherwise. You ran up the debt, so you pay it.

[Hooters]

"but I cant afford credit card bill in Uk"

NEVER SPEND MORE THAN YOU CAN WALK AWAY FROM IN THE UK

[saroq]

I've got a great credit rating in the UK but have not got the funds to keep paying off a debt which I've had to go in to! Things are looking OK for me now here money wise. Touch wood its carries on! But I cant afford my credit card bill back in the UK.

If I stop paying a debt what can happen to me here? I know its going to mess me up going back to the UK. I have 2 Debts BTW. One for £10,500 and one for £4,500. People have told me different stories so I need some advice on here.

No flaming please I feel awful about this as I've always paid my debts...

Thanks for any replys

"I've got a great credit rating in the UK " A great credit rating anywhere is worth preserving but make sure you understand the difference between a "great credit rating" and simply owing a great deal of money to the banks. You should follow the advice of others and work out some repayment option. Perhaps convert the credit card debt to a personal loan. That will have considerably less interest applied to the outstanding amount. A lot can happen in 6 or 7 years and if you find yourself having to return to the UK you'll be confronted with a bigger mess.

"Things are looking OK for me now here money wise. Touch wood its carries on!" How OK can they be is you can't handle a £15,000 debt? And they certainly don't sound certain or solid so will you be able to stay in Thailand until the debt has expired? The responsible course of action would be to go home, get a proper job that will pay you decent money and clear the debt before you do anything else. Of course the economic situation in the UK being what it is, finding that job may be easier said than done but the debt will only escalate in size the longer you ignore it.

There is no magic answer the debt won't go away for 6 or 7 years and who can get along without the use of a credit card for that long? How would you make online payments for purchases? You either deal with or you don't. Either decision has consequences it depends on how bad you want them to get. However, I suspect that as soon as you read that you can wait out the debt you went down to the pub, shouted everyone a drink secure in the knowledge that the s##t won't hit the fan and you'll definitely be able to and want to stay in Thailand for the next 6 years.

Edited December 25, 2011 by saroq

[Geekfreaklover]

"There is no magic answer the debt won't go away for 6 or 7 years and who can get along without the use of a credit card for that long? How would you make online payments for purchases?"

Open a Thai bank account with mastercard or visa debit and ebanking? Not too difficult to do if you are working here.

I'm not sure about this six year thing. I find it difficult to believe that debt is simply wiped from all the files. I'm no expert, correct me if I'm worng, but am sure that information would still be visiable to creditors.

[ludditeman]

If you feel bad about this, and you've always paid your debts as you say, continue to do so. It's irresponsible, immoral, and a cop out to do otherwise. You ran up the debt, so you pay it.

If only the bankers destroying the western economy thought the same!

But in truth, they expect a certain number of the debtors to default, and it is built into the CC charges, so why not.

[KRS1]

Ask them for a credit limit increase first, then apply for more cards on the same day.

If you know how to work the system, there's no need to run away from debt as long as you keep good standing.

If you are not going to pay, then do not pay anything. The first time you send even a small payment, the 6 year rule starts over.

[Forethat]

I've got a great credit rating in the UK but have not got the funds to keep paying off a debt which I've had to go in to! Things are looking OK for me now here money wise. Touch wood its carries on! But I cant afford my credit card bill back in the UK.

If I stop paying a debt what can happen to me here? I know its going to mess me up going back to the UK. I have 2 Debts BTW. One for £10,500 and one for £4,500. People have told me different stories so I need some advice on here.

No flaming please I feel awful about this as I've always paid my debts...

Thanks for any replys

"I've got a great credit rating in the UK " A great credit rating anywhere is worth preserving but make sure you understand the difference between a "great credit rating" and simply owing a great deal of money to the banks. You should follow the advice of others and work out some repayment option. Perhaps convert the credit card debt to a personal loan. That will have considerably less interest applied to the outstanding amount. A lot can happen in 6 or 7 years and if you find yourself having to return to the UK you'll be confronted with a bigger mess.

"Things are looking OK for me now here money wise. Touch wood its carries on!" How OK can they be is you can't handle a £15,000 debt? And they certainly don't sound certain or solid so will you be able to stay in Thailand until the debt has expired? The responsible course of action would be to go home, get a proper job that will pay you decent money and clear the debt before you do anything else. Of course the economic situation in the UK being what it is, finding that job may be easier said than done but the debt will only escalate in size the longer you ignore it.

There is no magic answer the debt won't go away for 6 or 7 years and who can get along without the use of a credit card for that long? How would you make online payments for purchases? You either deal with or you don't. Either decision has consequences it depends on how bad you want them to get. However, I suspect that as soon as you read that you can wait out the debt you went down to the pub, shouted everyone a drink secure in the knowledge that the s##t won't hit the fan and you'll definitely be able to and want to stay in Thailand for the next 6 years.

Totally!

This is one of the best posts I've read on TV.

[edwardandtubs]

Autam summarised the true position very clearly on page 3. However, your creditor could obtain a County Court Judgement using your last known address in the UK and that CCJ would stay with you for life or until it was paid. The 6 year limitation rule only applies if they don't obtain a CCJ.

[onnut]

If you can't afford to send a couple of hundred pounds back to the UK every month then I doubt you are really doing that great money wise in Thailand.

They will not chase you for the Debt, but you will have a bad credit rating when you return. Not because of an un paid debt but because they will not be able to see what you have been doing while you've been away. When they do credit checks they like to see money coming in every month and direct debits being paid off. If your away you can't do this, so it will be that that will give you a head ache when you come back.

[autan]

"There is no magic answer the debt won't go away for 6 or 7 years and who can get along without the use of a credit card for that long? How would you make online payments for purchases?"

Open a Thai bank account with mastercard or visa debit and ebanking? Not too difficult to do if you are working here.

I'm not sure about this six year thing. I find it difficult to believe that debt is simply wiped from all the files. I'm no expert, correct me if I'm worng, but am sure that information would still be visiable to creditors.

In the UK. The way the system work is like this :

1. A customer enters into a credit arrangement.

2. Debt is created by multiple means, loans, car loans, payday loans, catalogues, mobile phone contracts etc etc.

3. An account is opened and payment history is recorded on the debtors credit file.

4. Every month a payment is received the an OK mark is added to the credit file indicating that the debtor has paid on time.

5. If the debtor pay late a +1 mark is added. +2,+3,+4,+5,6 is added for each month payment has been missed.

6. After "reasonable warning and time lapsed" a credit stops chasing the debt and usually applies for a default notice to be placed on the debtors credit file.

7. A default notice tells other lenders and searchers that the debtor has failed to maintain the payments on the debt and usually the file indicates how much the debt was for and how long the deliuquency has gone on for.

8. The debt is then usually *not always* closed and passed to a debt collector who will send the usual letters.

9. After 90 days of no contact the details of the debtor are passed to the "Hunter database". This means if the debtor applies for credit again, with the name and date of birth, the hunter database alerts the creditors as to the current information held. This system is widely abused by debtors providing false information to escape detection, often living at the same address the debt was take out on originally.

10. Once the debt is closed, 7 full complete years remain until the debt is deemed as uncollectable and the debt is simply wiped from the debtors credit file.

11. After 7 years the debtor is free to ring up more debt as if they never had the original debt in the first place.

12. You will have noticed at no point do I endorse or support this behaviour I am merely trying to distinguish myth and protocol.

[theoldgit]

A couple of points about the Statue of Limitations, this kicks in after six years with regard to a debt, this means you cannot be taken to court six years after you made the last payment or acknowledge the debt, the debt still exsists but cannot be enfored in a court, it also drops off your credit file after six years.

[KeyserSoze01]

If you feel bad about this, and you've always paid your debts as you say, continue to do so. It's irresponsible, immoral, and a cop out to do otherwise. You ran up the debt, so you pay it.

+1 Only deadbeats and scum skip-out of their responsibilities.

[theblether]

The OP will not be extradited to the UK because of Credit Card debt. End of story. Every other reply is just adding to global warming so give it a bye.

[cardholder]

If you feel bad about this, and you've always paid your debts as you say, continue to do so. It's irresponsible, immoral, and a cop out to do otherwise. You ran up the debt, so you pay it.

+1 Only deadbeats and scum skip-out of their responsibilities.

Unfortunately, the world seems to have more than it's fair share of them.

......and who pays ?.....