Are Road Surfaces Getting More Slippery

[smedly]

what is with you guys on here, are your heads so far up your ass you have to challenge and insult people at will...crazy stuff

and by the way - I said production Honda, read my post again...unbelieveable

peace and a happy new year to all.

[smedly]

truethfully what I would like to know is why some proliffic posters here feel they are qualified to tell people how to set up their bikes - something I would never do, it just seems we have a fair share of closet experts here that when it come down to it - know very little on top of that they freely use abuse and attack tactics to get their point across, it's like kindergarden lol

and the roads are still slippery lol

[Kwasaki]

You posted a question people answered it and you are still spinning.

what is with you guys on here, are your heads so far up your ass you have to challenge and insult people at will...crazy stuff

and by the way - I said production Honda, read my post again...unbelieveable

peace and a happy new year to all.

Head up your arse is an insult and a 990 RC211 V5 was produced so your wrong again.

" it's like kindergarden lol "

and the roads are still slippery lol

It sure is with people not knowing how to set a bike up for the condition in which it is going to be used in, a happy spinning new year to you and Blackbird.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Kwasaki

[katabeachbum]

despite your argument, it has been a slippery week in Phuket too. Petrol, diesel, rubber from tyres left on the road, and watertucks splashing it

keep the rubber side down

[Nickiboy03]

Funny, only talking about this yesterday, where I am, it has now been 7 weeks without a drop of rain, I think it's the build up of crap on the road, watch out when it rains again, going to be like ice scatting.

In the last couple of weeks, noticed how much noise a D-max or Hilux makes when doing a you turn? The tires are screeching.

Bingo !

Happens every year and be aware of the first drops of rain. It is like ice then. Seen myself cars, vans and trucks slide out of the road on not so deep hill when the first drops of rain are coming down.

Yeh, it hasn't rained in Pattaya for ages now and there is a certain 'shimmer' on most roads.

The Pratumnak road/hill must be the most dangerous road in the world!!!

Accidents everyday without fail.

This could be due to lots of tourists of many nationalities riding bikes for the first time with their girlfriends on the back.

Be lucky.

I live in this area. I have a friend that spotted a truck that had blue plastic 45 gal drums and he witnessed used restaurant grease/oil splashing out onto the roadway, both sides of the road are affected. I now know what the darked stain splash marks on the road are & use special caution going up & down this hill.

There is always new gouges on the road from motorcycle frames when people lose control & have witnessed many plowing into the red & white cement barrier.

[fasteddie]

I assume you're running a Blackbird, Honda recommend 42psi front and rear (cold).

I don't know if the roads are getting slippier (in England at the mo), but I seriously hope not as I've always found the roads in Thailand slippy. I remember dropping a 'ped on a roundabout in Krabi a few years back (very embarrassing), I was in shorts and t-shirt and didn't even get any road-rash the tarmac was so slippy. The only grip I ever found in Thailand was at the Pattaya International Circuit back in the late eighties, pitty the gixer I was on at the time didn't even have enough grunt to spin the tyre, anyway I digress, Happy New Year and safe riding.

[smedly]

yes I am mate and can't drop pressure anymore otherwise I'd need power steering lol, I run them slightly down from recommended considering how hot it is here - I've checked the pressure after a good run when they are hot and and they are 43-44psi which is just about what I can get away with any lower and slow speed turn in becomes extreme, sometimes I wish I'd bought a little toy bike like an ER6N or Ninja 650R then I wouldn't have to consider wheelspin but I guess that just comes with having over twice the HP lol

PS and before any ER6N or Ninja owners jump in here with offensive retort - I'm just kidding, I love those bikes and would have one in an instant.

[BigBikeBKK]

yes I am mate and can't drop pressure anymore otherwise I'd need power steering lol, I run them slightly down from recommended considering how hot it is here - I've checked the pressure after a good run when they are hot and and they are 43-44psi which is just about what I can get away with any lower and slow speed turn in becomes extreme, sometimes I wish I'd bought a little toy bike like an ER6N or Ninja 650R then I wouldn't have to consider wheelspin but I guess that just comes with having over twice the HP lol

PS and before any ER6N or Ninja owners jump in here with offensive retort - I'm just kidding, I love those bikes and would have one in an instant.

Powersteering, or maybe you just need to get to the gym.

The old CBR1100XX was a fine bike in its day and briefly held the title of fastest production bike (way back in the 90's) before the Hayabusa turned up.

In stock form the old Blackbird only weighs about 250kg wet and only cranks out about ~130Hp so you certainly can experiment with lower pressures without much worry. For a 130hp bike to spin on dry pavement in 4th gear you definitely have some issues with your tires that need to be sorted.

Compare your old Blackbird to a real supersport like a GSXR 1000 that weighs around 200Kg wet and cranks out around 190Hp. (I only use the Gixxer as an example because I own one). I usually track the Gixxer around 28psi cold and for touring bump it up to ~36psi, a little more if I'm carrying a pillion.

Honestly mate, if you spent a little less time hurling insults and acting like a know-it-all, and a little more time trying accept constructive advice to diagnose and fix your problem, I think you'd probably end up enjoying your old blackbird a bit more if you could get her to stick to the road properly.

Happy Trails!

T

[smedly]

well there you go, absolutly nothiong you posted there is accurate, perhaps that's why people generally ignore you mate, I personally find you rude and ignorant and are right now getting very close to becomming the 2nd person I have ever placed on ignore, anyone that listens to this ---- about bike setup or anything else needs to very careful, just because you throw in the odd trackday doesn't make you an expert by a long shot, like I have already said "I would never advise anyone on how they should be setting up their ride"

Oh and BTW the "old" BB as you mention was produced from 1998 up to 2007 and throws out 164hp (depenent on variations) held the fastest production Bike in the world title taken from Kawasaki, Hyabusa topped it by 5mph then Kawasaki with the 14R and now held by that superb monster the BMW

[smedly]

Oh and one more thing - your single contribution to this thread has been telling people to let their tyres down if they experience wheel spin on the slippery surface we are all experiencing right now (anyone that disagrees with this you sling insults) maybe you think we're all driving snow trucks in Iceland lol, ok I give in - guys everybody let your tyres down this will offer you more grip but your bike will be unrideable - use 5x the fuel and eventually your tyres will explode due to overheating lol

[BigBikeBKK]

well there you go, absolutly nothiong you posted there is accurate, perhaps that's why people generally ignore you mate, I personally find you rude and ignorant and are right now getting very close to becomming the 2nd person I have ever placed on ignore, anyone that listens to this ---- about bike setup or anything else needs to very careful, just because you throw in the odd trackday doesn't make you an expert by a long shot, like I have already said "I would never advise anyone on how they should be setting up their ride"

Oh and BTW the "old" BB as you mention was produced from 1998 up to 2007 and throws out 164hp (depenent on variations) held the fastest production Bike in the world title taken from Kawasaki, Hyabusa topped it by 5mph then Kawasaki with the 14R and now held by that superb monster the BMW

I'm sorry you find me rude. Perhaps you should look in a mirror.

Why don't you tell me where the innacuracies are?

The Blackbird was fastest production bike for a couple of years in the late 90's, no?

The original model only put out about 130 rwhp. Thanks to the addition of RAM air the '99 "super" model put out 164Hp at the crank, subsequent models were DOWN on power. The Blackbird received no significant upgrades after the '99 model. Honda stopped selling it in the US in '03 and in Europe in '07.

Try dropping the pressure on your rear BT023 Sport Touring tire and I expect you'll enjoy much better traction. Or replace the sport touring tire you're running now with a proper sport tire.

Happy trails!

T

[BigBikeBKK]

Oh and one more thing - your single contribution to this thread has been telling people to let their tyres down if they experience wheel spin on the slippery surface we are all experiencing right now (anyone that disagrees with this you sling insults) maybe you think we're all driving snow trucks in Iceland lol, ok I give in - guys everybody let your tyres down this will offer you more grip but your bike will be unrideable - use 5x the fuel and eventually your tyres will explode due to overheating lol

Please go back and read your posts.

You are the one who started hurling insults.

I'm just offering advice. Never said I'm an expert. Far from it. But you claim to be a former racer yet choose to run your tires at abnormally high pressures then complain about lack of traction. Something doesn't add up.

Hopefully everyone here knows less pressure = more traction. More pressure = less traction.

And yes, less pressure also = more heat and wear.

For me it's an easy choice- I choose traction over tire life.

And if you think your fuel consumption is going to quintuple or your tires are going to explode from dropping a few psi well... you're nuts!

Happy New Year!

T

Edited January 2, 2012 by BigBikeBKK

[smedly]

BBBKK you are relentless and again wrong, you started this and I am no longer going to respond to you, and BTW never once did I insult anyone here, disagreeing with someone is not an insult it is a difference of opinion which don't seem to be able to handle. Comments like som num nah and wingnut are hardly constructive.

Anyway -

ok I didn't right the following but thought it a useful read for everyone, it is copied and pasted from the net and does contain some general info about tyres especially "inflation"

Motorcycle Tire Inflation

CHECKING TIRE PRESSURES IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIRE MAINTENANCE FUNCTION YOU CAN PERFORM.

Why the capital letters? Because we can't stress this enough. Check your tires' air pressure at least once a week and before long trips. Be sure to use an accurate pressure gauge. Common sense, you say? You'd be surprised.

Incorrect inflation can lead to uneven wear, so use your contact patches as an idicator. And remember, having too much pressure can be just as dangerous as too little.Check air pressure when the tires are cold. Tires are cold when a motorcycle has been ridden less than a mile at moderate speed or after it has been sitting for three or more hours. Never release air from a hot tire in order to reach the recommended cold tire pressure. Normal riding causes tires to run hotter and inflation pressure to increase. If you release air when your tires are hot, you may under-inflate your tires to dangerous levels.

If for some reason your tires are losing more than two psi per month, the tire, valve, or wheel may be damaged. Have your local dealer check it out. Always keep the air pressure in both tires at the manufacturer's recommended psi. Your motorcycle owner's manual will tell you this magic number. On some motorcycles, the recommended front and rear tire pressures differ, and the numbers stamped on the sidewall of the tire are often only for maximum loads. Occasionally, these pressure numbers are the manufacturer's recommended settings as well, but always check your owner's manual first. Having the proper tire pressure improves handling, gas mileage and keeps you safer in the saddle.

Riding on underinflated motorcycle tires is dangerous for several reasons. The tires will build excessive heat and can cause sudden tire failure. Under inflation causes irregular tread wear at the edge of the contact patch and may also damage the tire beyond use. It will affect cornering, cause you to lose precious gas mileage, and can cause fatigue cracking.

Riding on tires with too much air is equally as dangerous. The tires are more likely to be cut, punctured, or broken by sudden impact. Overinflating will cause the bike to ride hard and will cause the tire to wear out quickly in the center of the contact patch. Do not exceed the pressure indicated on the tire sidewall. Consult your owner's manual for the recommended psi and for other useful tidbits of info on your tires.

[Brissance]

BBBKK you are relentless and again wrong, you started this and I am no longer going to respond to you, and BTW never once did I insult anyone here, disagreeing with someone is not an insult it is a difference of opinion which don't seem to be able to handle. Comments like som num nah and wingnut are hardly constructive.

Anyway -

ok I didn't right the following but thought it a useful read for everyone, it is copied and pasted from the net and does contain some general info about tyres especially "inflation"

Motorcycle Tire Inflation

CHECKING TIRE PRESSURES IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIRE MAINTENANCE FUNCTION YOU CAN PERFORM.

Why the capital letters? Because we can't stress this enough. Check your tires' air pressure at least once a week and before long trips. Be sure to use an accurate pressure gauge. Common sense, you say? You'd be surprised.

Incorrect inflation can lead to uneven wear, so use your contact patches as an idicator. And remember, having too much pressure can be just as dangerous as too little.Check air pressure when the tires are cold. Tires are cold when a motorcycle has been ridden less than a mile at moderate speed or after it has been sitting for three or more hours. Never release air from a hot tire in order to reach the recommended cold tire pressure. Normal riding causes tires to run hotter and inflation pressure to increase. If you release air when your tires are hot, you may under-inflate your tires to dangerous levels.

If for some reason your tires are losing more than two psi per month, the tire, valve, or wheel may be damaged. Have your local dealer check it out. Always keep the air pressure in both tires at the manufacturer's recommended psi. Your motorcycle owner's manual will tell you this magic number. On some motorcycles, the recommended front and rear tire pressures differ, and the numbers stamped on the sidewall of the tire are often only for maximum loads. Occasionally, these pressure numbers are the manufacturer's recommended settings as well, but always check your owner's manual first. Having the proper tire pressure improves handling, gas mileage and keeps you safer in the saddle.

Riding on underinflated motorcycle tires is dangerous for several reasons. The tires will build excessive heat and can cause sudden tire failure. Under inflation causes irregular tread wear at the edge of the contact patch and may also damage the tire beyond use. It will affect cornering, cause you to lose precious gas mileage, and can cause fatigue cracking.

Riding on tires with too much air is equally as dangerous. The tires are more likely to be cut, punctured, or broken by sudden impact. Overinflating will cause the bike to ride hard and will cause the tire to wear out quickly in the center of the contact patch. Do not exceed the pressure indicated on the tire sidewall. Consult your owner's manual for the recommended psi and for other useful tidbits of info on your tires.

Setting tire pressures i.a.w. the manufacturers handbook is always the best way to ensure performance within their design envelope. Tire pressures should be set when the tire is cool, which means 'not run' for more than 1 mile. If you put in air at 32/33 psi when the tires are cool and the pressure is 42/43 psi when hot the tires are under-inflated by 10 - 20% (depending on gauge accuracy, few are better than +/- 5%) according to the handbook.

You've nailed it, the roads are more slippy at this time of year. I would even say that, this year, the roads I have travelled recently seem more slippy than in previous years.

If I was having traction problems accelerating, I'd be more concerned about the traction available for cornering and stopping, but that's me.

[smedly]

Setting tire pressures i.a.w. the manufacturers handbook is always the best way to ensure performance within their design envelope. Tire pressures should be set when the tire is cool, which means 'not run' for more than 1 mile. If you put in air at 32/33 psi when the tires are cool and the pressure is 42/43 psi when hot the tires are under-inflated by 10 - 20% (depending on gauge accuracy, few are better than +/- 5%) according to the handbook.

You've nailed it, the roads are more slippy at this time of year. I would even say that, this year, the roads I have travelled recently seem more slippy than in previous years.

If I was having traction problems accelerating, I'd be more concerned about the traction available for cornering and stopping, but that's me.

Great post and agree with you 100%, I've been riding here 7 years and never experienced the roads quite as bad as this, and you are correct Re "traction problems accelerating" reducing tyre pressure may enhance straight line grip but all you are doing is masking the issue and creating probably more problems, I actually run 2x types of tyre on my bike, I have a soft compound diablo on the front and the BT23 on the rear, this combo works extremely well for me, Tyres actually have oil in their compound and can make for a very slippery surface if not given the chance to wash away

[Brissance]

I first started to notice a change in the road surface(s) when driving the car about a month ago. The tires began to squeel on bends where they didn't before. At first I checked; the tires, tire pressures and alignment but all was well. The road surface is definitely more 'polished' and is easily noticeable so I just change my line when on the bike. I was thinking it was a local (lack of) maintenance isssue, but it seems to be more widespread if others have noticed this also,

I've noticed that the road surfaces at crossroads with red lights are particularly bad as you approach them, so a lot of the contaminant will have come from vehicle tires. Some near me are rutted as well, where heavy trucks have pushed up the surface. The braking experience is akin to stopping on wet cobblestones, so it's best to take it easy.

I'm more of a Dunlop man myself. Bridgestone tires remind me too much of the boots on early Japanese machines. They weren't so good in those days. They're reputed to be much better now, but I'll stay with my prejudice. Using a softer compound on front for a little extra grip is a good idea. I've used Pirrelli a few times and liked them, but they wore too quickly for my liking.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Brissance

[wana]

if its too slippery you need to drop a couple of psi until its not too slipery or if you insist on driving at " 220+ with 2 more gears to go " you need softer compound tires with better quality rubber

they will wear faster but what price do you want to put on your personal safety ? at 220+ you might only going to get the chance to <deleted> up once and then u anfd ur bike will be finished

in the wet season i droped pressures ,even on our scooters because recommmeneed psi was like ice skating

[thaicbr]

after looking around the net.. it is indeed the fact that the Honda Blackbird has recommended tyre pressures of 42 front and back.

And most blackbird owners state that its the best pressure (some say 36psi) but smedly has now said that he puts in 36-37 cold.

The roads are more slippery that's a fact.

The Blackbird has 42psi as a recommended tyre pressure, that's a fact.

Now would SLIGHTLY less pressure give you more grip ...possibly.

It's up to each and every one of us to be happy with their own setup.

Happy riding.

[William Osborne]

if you're spinning up till 4th... i would look at your riding skills opposed to blaming the roads ... obviously there is a problem between your right wrist and your brain... throttle is not an on/off switch you know

Edited January 3, 2012 by William Osborne

[smedly]

if you're spinning up till 4th... i would look at your riding skills opposed to blaming the roads ... obviously there is a problem between your right wrist and your brain... throttle is not an on/off switch you know

and the brainiest post 2012 goes to..............................

[BigBikeBKK]

if you're spinning up till 4th... i would look at your riding skills opposed to blaming the roads ... obviously there is a problem between your right wrist and your brain... throttle is not an on/off switch you know

and the brainiest post 2012 goes to..............................

The ignorant punt dog with buck teeth!

[marcusb]

if you're spinning up till 4th... i would look at your riding skills opposed to blaming the roads ... obviously there is a problem between your right wrist and your brain... throttle is not an on/off switch you know

and the brainiest post 2012 goes to..............................

Yes but he's right.

I see there are 3 reasons for spinning all the way through 4th.

1) you like how it sounds and feels (no problem, it can be fun)

2) showing off (used to do that with my car in my teens)

3) you don't understand that you just have to back off the throttle till the tires bite than increase throttle at a reasonable rate

No matter what bike or conditions I am on I can't see the sense in spinning through the gears.

Driving on ice in Canada we don't floor the accelerator when the light turns green, we would just spin. We apply enough throttle to

advance without breaking traction.

And yes the roads are shinny and slippery now, drive accordingly.

[smedly]

4) Because I can

5) Testing just how much traction (or lack of) there is as it is something we should all be constantly aware of on every part of our journey

[KRS1]

Just ride how you want to, everyone's skill set is different. If you can handle it at 43 psi but with a little more slip then go for it, knowing you'll be faster in the straights. Its not like you cant slip at 30 psi.

I know someone at 30-32 psi and he keeps wrecking like a little girl on a tricycle.

If your front is lowered, id raise it though to increase the rake and wheelbase to keep you glued in the turns.

[smedly]

well said mate, it's really down to the individual and the bike, I'm amazed at this thread and how it matured to insults etc, it was a simple topic based on an observation about the current road surfaces and was intended to gauge how other where finding it and to an extent to draw attention to the fact for those that wheren't aware - new bike owners etc.

[newf]

well said mate, it's really down to the individual and the bike, I'm amazed at this thread and how it matured to insults etc, it was a simple topic based on an observation about the current road surfaces and was intended to gauge how other where finding it and to an extent to draw attention to the fact for those that wheren't aware - new bike owners etc.

we also need to remember thats its not just whats recommended in the owners manual, thats ok if you're still running the same tire that was on it stock. but different tires require different amounts of pressure depending on stiffness of its carcass, etc.

for example, at the track i run Pirelli Diablo superbike slicks at 23psi(rear) & 30(front) cold (26psi & 33psi off the warmers), but another guy that runs Dunlop slick uses 18psi off the warmers. I have Supercorca SC2 on my Street CBR1000 and i run 30(rear) & 33(front) Cold but i'm not worried about tire wear as long as the bike stays shiny side up.

When i first bought my CBR1000 it had Metzeler M5 with nearly 40psi in both tires and it would get sideways at every corner if i was a little too hard on the throttle, but felt much better when i lowered the pressure but still not good enough for me so i bought some Supercorsa SC2 which are the best DOT tire i've ever had.

[smedly]

agreed mate but racing/track tyres are a completely different animal to road tyres, as I'm sure you know for racing a good tyre specialist can read a tyre and diagnose many setup issues with a racing bike, weight balance - suspension - pressures - temps - brakes indeed almost everything that a bike does on the track can be read through the tyres - it is quite an art, I come from a country where motorbike racing is almost a cult and it's mostly done on public roads

[newf]

agreed mate but racing/track tyres are a completely different animal to road tyres, as I'm sure you know for racing a good tyre specialist can read a tyre and diagnose many setup issues with a racing bike, weight balance - suspension - pressures - temps - brakes indeed almost everything that a bike does on the track can be read through the tyres - it is quite an art, I come from a country where motorbike racing is almost a cult and it's mostly done on public roads

Agreed,

I don't do much road riding anymore which i hope will change as soon as they start making Ducati Hypermotards in thailand and i can pick one up. But I personally like a softer feeling (lower pressure) in my rear tire but hate the same feeling in the front so i usually run a higher front tire pressure.

You said before that your bike doesn't turn well with lower pressure so maybe a lower rear tire pressure but keeping the front a little higher will help. Most of the roads i've been riding on in thailand so far are really not suited for the higher HP of the superbikes and thats why i do more track riding now then road. I think the best all around bike would be a motard.

[wantan]

Oh, all you great track riders and all you fast street riders. Cornering with 240kmh on public thai streets. Respect! But i hope i will never meet you guys on the street. And i really hope you will not kill anyone

[newf]

Oh, all you great track riders and all you fast street riders. Cornering with 240kmh on public thai streets. Respect! But i hope i will never meet you guys on the street. And i really hope you will not kill anyone

Since I started doing trackdays I've lost the desire to go fast on public roads. That's why I hardly ride my street blade and I'm waiting to buy a more practical bike for Thailand, a mortard.