Am I A Bad Employer?

[angiud]

In the last few years I lost dozens and dozens of employees of my restaurants. Just they disappear the night after the salary day. Both Thai and Burmese. I mean, I'm used to that, being working in Thailand 10 years, but in the last years (say 2 or 3) the problem increased to reach an unsustainable situation.

I start by saying that I give a day off a week, room with fan and shared toilet, free-flow rice, 40 baht a day each head extra for food and a salary of 6000. I give also, to better motivate them, a bonus of 50 baht every 10.000 of the gross daily turnover, so in a good day is easy they get another 100 to 300 baht. And don't forget the tip from the customers and the recycle of glass, aluminium and paper, I give to them.

The working time is a bit hard (11am to 11pm) but many hours a day are free of customers so they are relaxed.

I ask professionality but I don't think to give them too much pressure, exploit them, treat them like second class, etc.

After the first missing, I start a different strategy to slow down the leak, payng the salary on the day 5, and after 7, so if somebody want to run away without any prior notice, he's going to lose 5/7 days of salary. And after that, also giving my bonus money every month in a random day ( not less than 3/4000 baht each).

None of those deterrents worked out.

Is my impression that Thai staff before, and now Burmese (because it's almost impossible to find Thai workers here in Koh Phangan) choose a more light job, less difficult, with more free (lazy) time, possibly sanook too, and they simply don't care if they earn half of the money.

Today 4 on 6 workers of my main restaurant just packed their belongings and disappear during the night, lefting behind over 12.000 baht of bonus and a week each of salary. My restaurant is closed, I hope to opend back in a couple of days, if I find new staff.

I would like to know some impressions, suggestions, experiences from other fellow members.

I an truly hopeless about to breed, teach and train new staff, to see them go away after a few weeks, sometimes a few months. This affect also in a big part the growing and the quality of my business.

[Jdietz]

Maybe they're not leaving voluntarily, but are 'encouraged' to do so by someone more powerful? Had any offers to sell lately?

[itishothere]

Offer a reward for the first one to come back for 30 minutes to tell you where they went and why!

Salary/bonus/tips sound reasonable.

How about the customers? Do they treat them OK? Language problems?

[angiud]

My wife (Thai) learn to speak a bit of Burmese, andusually eat together with them, friendly and the opposite of an Hiso. Me, I'm an old PC nerd and Gauchiste so I feel impossible to bad treat my emploiees.

The customers where I stay are (luckily) polite, mosly evolute and far to be the common stereotype of the KPG revellers. More long term resident, yoga, meditation people etc

[PattayaPhom]

In Thailand you can leave a job in the morning and start another in the afternoon....us Brits could do the same back in the 60s and 70s....whats wrong with looking for a better job...also holding back their pay 5-7 days is a definate no no...apart from that you seem to be generous with everything....paying more wont help.....what about your wive, does she have family or friends of...always a better choice if possible..

[KarenBravo]

Maybe the shifts are too long.

[BigC]

I would pay them 8000 thai baht per month but pay them only 6000 baht. the other 2000 baht goes into a deposit account which they get every 6 months should they not run away.

that way if they leave within the first 6 months then they shall be out of pocket.

[premiersportsbar]

Anguid my opinion is that it's not you, your payment policy or anything else you are or are not doing.

I have in Koh Samui exactly the same staffing problems as you have described, I even took on a girl who was just under 18, who was struggling

for money had nowhere to live etc, in her first month I offered to up her wages at the end of the month just to keep her, end of the month she handed in her

notice, 2 days before pay day. (she never got the rise)

The job market here in Thailand is so open for Thais to get work that, I can't see it changing anytime soon.

Good luck in getting staff.

[BigC]

Anguid my opinion is that it's not you, your payment policy or anything else you are or are not doing.

I have in Koh Samui exactly the same staffing problems as you have described, I even took on a girl who was just under 18, who was struggling

for money had nowhere to live etc, in her first month I offered to up her wages at the end of the month just to keep her, end of the month she handed in her

notice, 2 days before pay day. (she never got the rise)

The job market here in Thailand is so open for Thais to get work that, I can't see it changing anytime soon.

Good luck in getting staff.

yes i have had restaurents having many problems with staff. Normally they meet a forang and the boy friend don't want her working.

I never employ Thai ladies with forang boyu friends they seem to make problems.

[itishothere]

The job market here in Thailand is so open for Thais to get work that, I can't see it changing anytime soon.

This is what I hear frequently. They can come and go as they please. But I, probably like angiud, don't understand WHY they move so frequently. Is it money? Friends? Boredom? Change of scenery?

Personally I often see waiting staff leave and turn up the next day around the corner doing what looks like the same type of work. Occasionally I get the idea that they 'like' it in the new place, but seldom do I get a more concrete reason for the move.

[Birdman]

Maybe it's a kind of freedom, to do what to please, there are better things to do than work. Reminds me on my school days.

[taninthai]

Try paying a decent wage 6000 bht is extremely we pay our chief 10,000 bht free room and food been with us 2 years now to keep good staff you have to pay them better money

[islandguy]

Pay a yearly bonus. Pay it 3 months after completion of the 12 months working and only if they have given one months notice (that is, if they leave after the 12 months but before the 15 months).

This is something that one of my friends did for another kind of business. For a restaurant, maybe make it 6 months and 2 weeks notice. Not only might it give you longer time with each employee, it can help you to plan on when people are likeliest to leave.

[angiud]

In an high season month they get, with my bonus, plus salery and food, over 10.000 baht, plus the tips and the free room. So I don't think is a matter of 'decent' wage. And I was thinking to put a part of the salary in a safety or an account ang give them, say, every 6 months, but, as I said before:

they run lefting behind over 12.000 baht of bonus and a week each of salary (1500 baht).

IMHO is mostly laziness. "Better a less paid job that a good one but harder"

Anyway, I got already 3 new staff and tomorrow I'll open only for pizza and something more ;-). I need 2 more.

Edited January 6, 2012 by angiud

[Spoonman]

Withholding salary and banking it to be paid as a bonus sounds pretty dodgy, if the employee took this to the labour dept how would it stack up ?

[premiersportsbar]

Try paying a decent wage 6000 bht is extremely we pay our chief 10,000 bht free room and food been with us 2 years now to keep good staff you have to pay them better money

I pay my cashiers 10,000 plus Tips + drinks +empty bottle money and still can't keep staff so I'm not convinced it's the money.

[Jose]

Give them an

.

[thaicbr]

what about employing a few more staff. split the shifts so you have the staff when you need them but less staff when you don't. Do NOT give bonus's on a regular basis. but only if you feel like it and make sure they know it's for good work.

or if you want to pay bonus make it a yearly bonus (paid in low season)

[Tropicalevo]

It is certainly a strange situation at the moment on Samui (I cannot speak for KPN)

I am told that security guards are being head-hunted for 12,000 - 14,000 baht per month! (I am paying 11,000)

In the area where I live, domestic workers are getting 10,000 baht a month. (Gardeners and maids etc)

As I understand it, hotels are paying similar - but with BIG company benifits. ( I already pay social security and tax for my staff).

From what I can gather - little and often seems to be the order of the day. Small regular increases. Bonuses sound good to us, but Thai's just compare salary. (A bonus is not salary and as such, could be stopped)

In reality, there is no model for us to follow. Workers move on a whim, family pressure, peer pressure, another 50 baht next door etc etc.

It all seems to be a movable feast.

Edit for a PS. From what I can see on Koh Samui - there are a lot more Burmese workers here now. I suspect that we are getting them from you guys!

Edited January 6, 2012 by Tropicalevo

[janverbeem]

I'm sure those Burmese workers of you all have a work permit.Maybe you're lucky they run away.

By the way,I remember a post of you some time ago in another topic,where you claimed that one needed to pay a good salary to their workers to gain respect.

You notice now how much respect you gained by putting eggs under their arse?

[livinthailandos]

As a employer I can tell you there are way more job openings than labor supply. Even the big 5 star resorts are having hard times finding staff. Keep in mind turn over rate is 40% and up at the 5 stars. Keep in mind that's even with free housing, free meal, bonuses and service charges. Things to point out

1. Most of my staff I've had a long time have stayed because of having their friends or family working same place as them. Liability yes but its worked out quite well.

2. The pay your giving quit working for lots of places I know as of last year.

3. Realize thai's don't care about work being serious. If the atmosphere is not good with a side of sanook they won't stay. Even with high pay

4. Certain job positions are high need, while others are not.

High need - waiter and waitress - reason overly high supply of restaurants on samui.

5. Many staff that I speak with don't favor samui alot simply due to high rent prices and lack of affordable housing is a real problem here. That's why most thai's want the hotels as pay is better and includes most times free housing

Important to keep in mind for thai's even with pay it gets cut especially when they have to

1. Send home for parents

2. If have kids

3. Still survive by paying rent and gasoline

Alot of people can disagree with me if you like but I know for 100% fact right lots of places are having labor shortages

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[maccaroni man]

one fellow told me many years ago, think of dealing with thais as dealing with a 14yr old western kid in terms of what they would rather be doing and work or holding a long term job is typically at the top of the list. 10k baht to a chef IMO is walking on thin ice on a hot summer day, any chef that knows anything will earn his raises by raising your food cost. At the end of the day it really does come down to the individual and screening process. I have lost more staff over the yrs from mid night runners than i can remember some had weak minds and were easly polluted by others and some were just bored and others did not like or the work. At the end of the day I decided to take care of key personel and contract labor my other needs.

[angiud]

I would like to clarify that is a couple of years that I cannot find, here in KPG, any reliable or willing Thai staff, the few I found during the last years were found to be so lazy, or thieves when dealing with the cash machine, or too much proud to take order from a woman or a farang.

So now I take almost only Burmese.

Most of staff I had don't care so much about the money, but they want to stay closer to friends, relatives, boy/girlfriend, etc. And they prefere a less paid but lighter job that a well paid but more difficult and 2/3 hours a day heavier job. This is a fact, both for Thais that for Burmese.

In my experience most of the workers (there are a very few exceptions) absolutely don't care to lern a profession, allowing them to get a better salary, looking for a more high grade job and anyway to work more easily, knowing very well what they are doing.

P.S.:

I work in the kitchen too, cooking, cleaning and peeling vegetables too.

Edited January 7, 2012 by angiud

[guavagirl]

It may be the long hours. 12 hour shifts are not easy. Try splitting it into two hour shifts and see what happens.

[samuijimmy]

It's a tough one to answer, there is a resort I have known on KP, for some 7 years now, and mostly have the same staff... some have disappeared for a year or two and come back... They are provided with reasonable accommodation, (by Thai standards) Food etc... use of motorbike.... etc...

Some have had the promise of better wages else where and moved on.... but now I see several are back....

This place is always busy, especially for lunch, year round, and dinner more so in the high season...

Their working hours are horrendous, from 7 am to 10 pm in, seven days a week in high season.... A few are really dragging their feet by the end of the day ! ... if lucky they get an hour or three to snooze in the late afternoon...

I actually asked some of them how much they were making a few weeks ago, seemed that they start at 6000 baht, plus the accommodation and food, but after and I can't remember if it was 3 or 6 months, their salary is raised to 7500 baht per month....(Both Thai and Burmese, but most of the staff both wait staff and kitchen staff are Burmese.... )

They all appear to "all get along" but there is no handling of the cash register.... only taking money to the cashier desk and taking change back to customers table.

I believe, the resort pays for the "work permit" for the Burmese staff, that's 5900 baht a year, (I think) I am not sure if that gets deducted from salary or not...

They also all share the tips...

Aside from that place, and since living on Samui, I am surprised sometimes that the staff remains the same, year after year. ... not just restaurants but shops and tour companies too... so some where there, there's a motivation to stick around.....

The other advantage with the Burmese is they usually speak and understand English better... rather sad but true...

[insertmembernamehere]

Thais look at salary as their actual pay; not bonuses or tips.

6,000 baht a month is not exactly going to make them loyal.

Making them work a 12-hour shift is probably illegal unless it is voluntary and with overtime pay, and if not, it certainly is not very endearing to employees.

[BigC]

It's a tough one to answer, there is a resort I have known on KP, for some 7 years now, and mostly have the same staff... some have disappeared for a year or two and come back... They are provided with reasonable accommodation, (by Thai standards) Food etc... use of motorbike.... etc...

Some have had the promise of better wages else where and moved on.... but now I see several are back....

This place is always busy, especially for lunch, year round, and dinner more so in the high season...

Their working hours are horrendous, from 7 am to 10 pm in, seven days a week in high season.... A few are really dragging their feet by the end of the day ! ... if lucky they get an hour or three to snooze in the late afternoon...

I actually asked some of them how much they were making a few weeks ago, seemed that they start at 6000 baht, plus the accommodation and food, but after and I can't remember if it was 3 or 6 months, their salary is raised to 7500 baht per month....(Both Thai and Burmese, but most of the staff both wait staff and kitchen staff are Burmese.... )

They all appear to "all get along" but there is no handling of the cash register.... only taking money to the cashier desk and taking change back to customers table.

I believe, the resort pays for the "work permit" for the Burmese staff, that's 5900 baht a year, (I think) I am not sure if that gets deducted from salary or not...

They also all share the tips...

Aside from that place, and since living on Samui, I am surprised sometimes that the staff remains the same, year after year. ... not just restaurants but shops and tour companies too... so some where there, there's a motivation to stick around.....

The other advantage with the Burmese is they usually speak and understand English better... rather sad but true...

I think if people are happy in the work place and get on with the other staff. you may not hear the bitchyness between the staff but u might have one staff memeber that is making problems with the other staff. People cannot be bothered to hang around a work plave where there are problem people making problems umong other staff.

also do not let your staff know how badly you need them even if you do need them. Be firm but fair. There again if a rich man turns up and offers them to stay with them and live with them in there 10 million baht villa and not have to work then not much you can do about that.

i still reckon deposit account is the best way that way you get paid if they leave. i would give it to them every sonkhran and every new year. 2000 baht from everyones salary. subject to terms and conditions.

also do not give all the amount back just 75 % unless they give 1 months notice first.

Problem with people leaving out here is that they just leave. which leaves the owner with a problem and no time to find new staff. sometimes if you have notice then the staff memeber that is leaving may be able to offfer you help finding new staff, such as a job for her sister or somethins.

Also profit related pay att eh end og the year also helps. the more they work the more business they bring in the more salary they get.

Also service charging isn't such a sbad thing as then everyone gets a tip and if people do not read the recipt then they pay be stupid enough to tip cash on top.

this way they get a per centage of the bill. which i think is far normally tips should be a small per centage of the value of the meal. or the product as long as the compnay does not take the piss with the percentage of the bill.

[samuijimmy]

Thais look at salary as their actual pay; not bonuses or tips.

6,000 baht a month is not exactly going to make them loyal.

Making them work a 12-hour shift is probably illegal unless it is voluntary and with overtime pay, and if not, it certainly is not very endearing to employees.

I'd agree, some of the better construction companies, pay over time after 8 hours... plus provide accommodation.... but then too, there are probably many who don't pay over time, and I've seen where some construction employees don't get paid cos the boss has drank away their pay... ... sad ... really! .... seen them actually crying because of that.... more than once....

[samuijimmy]

It's a tough one to answer, there is a resort I have known on KP, for some 7 years now, and mostly have the same staff... some have disappeared for a year or two and come back... They are provided with reasonable accommodation, (by Thai standards) Food etc... use of motorbike.... etc...

Some have had the promise of better wages else where and moved on.... but now I see several are back....

This place is always busy, especially for lunch, year round, and dinner more so in the high season...

Their working hours are horrendous, from 7 am to 10 pm in, seven days a week in high season.... A few are really dragging their feet by the end of the day ! ... if lucky they get an hour or three to snooze in the late afternoon...

I actually asked some of them how much they were making a few weeks ago, seemed that they start at 6000 baht, plus the accommodation and food, but after and I can't remember if it was 3 or 6 months, their salary is raised to 7500 baht per month....(Both Thai and Burmese, but most of the staff both wait staff and kitchen staff are Burmese.... )

They all appear to "all get along" but there is no handling of the cash register.... only taking money to the cashier desk and taking change back to customers table.

I believe, the resort pays for the "work permit" for the Burmese staff, that's 5900 baht a year, (I think) I am not sure if that gets deducted from salary or not...

They also all share the tips...

Aside from that place, and since living on Samui, I am surprised sometimes that the staff remains the same, year after year. ... not just restaurants but shops and tour companies too... so some where there, there's a motivation to stick around.....

The other advantage with the Burmese is they usually speak and understand English better... rather sad but true...

I think if people are happy in the work place and get on with the other staff. you may not hear the bitchyness between the staff but u might have one staff memeber that is making problems with the other staff. People cannot be bothered to hang around a work plave where there are problem people making problems umong other staff.

also do not let your staff know how badly you need them even if you do need them. Be firm but fair. There again if a rich man turns up and offers them to stay with them and live with them in there 10 million baht villa and not have to work then not much you can do about that.

i still reckon deposit account is the best way that way you get paid if they leave. i would give it to them every sonkhran and every new year. 2000 baht from everyones salary. subject to terms and conditions.

also do not give all the amount back just 75 % unless they give 1 months notice first.

Problem with people leaving out here is that they just leave. which leaves the owner with a problem and no time to find new staff. sometimes if you have notice then the staff memeber that is leaving may be able to offfer you help finding new staff, such as a job for her sister or somethins.

Also profit related pay att eh end og the year also helps. the more they work the more business they bring in the more salary they get.

Also service charging isn't such a sbad thing as then everyone gets a tip and if people do not read the recipt then they pay be stupid enough to tip cash on top.

this way they get a per centage of the bill. which i think is far normally tips should be a small per centage of the value of the meal. or the product as long as the compnay does not take the piss with the percentage of the bill.

I've only come across "service charge" once here and that was a few weeks ago... won't be going back, it was somewhere in Ban Rak.

I tip almost always, unless bad food or bad service! Which does not happen too often... but I want to make my own choice!

[Jose]

IMHO is mostly laziness. "Better a less paid job that a good one but harder"

You're dam_n right - at wages of 19 Baht/hour one would expect life-long loyalty from these lazy buggers. <deleted>, what more do they want, maybe health and retirement benefits on top of your generous offer?