Open Letter To PM Yingluck Re: Updating Laws Affecting Foreigners From Drew Noyes

[toenail]

The writer of this open letter should have sent the letter to Yingluck's brother. Isn't he the one making the decisions?

Edited January 9, 2012 by toenail

[tombkk]

There are other foreigners in Thailand besides the Pattaya expat community and the issues are much broader than it would seem the OP seems to realise - this is a very ego-centric effort.

If foreigners are really interested in "changing" their situation in Thailand then a pan-national organisation should be formed and given the remit to produce a document to be presented to the Thai government that is truly representative of the needs of foreigners living in Thailand........ Not a onesided doc produced over lunch by a few (myopic?) US expats.

That pan-national organisation exists and is called the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT). And they are indeed in touch with the government. But they do this on a professional basis, rather than this deliberately sub-standard Open Letter, which is made to appeal to

[Alvarez]

foreign men can become Thai citizens if married to a Thai woman, but the requirements are much stricter...

Any link or advise to get Thai citizenship???

I don't have any link but i can tell you, you only need to pay taxes for 3 years, during those 3 years your salary should be near to 40000 bat, 1 or 2 children, you don't need to speak Thai, you don't need to have a tabianbaan , and you don't need to have permanent residence first:)

[tombkk]

Personally, here's what I'd like to see changed - not that it ever will, but what the heck.

1) Establishment of an actual Marriage Visa - not a Non-O with Marriage/Family Etensions for 1 year. Make it valid for 1 year, then increased to a 5 year visa.

2) After the first year of marriage, have the right to buy up to one (1) rai of land to buid a house on, or buy an exsiting house, either in our own names or jointly with the wife.

3) Eliminate all 90 day reporting. Other than the renewal of a visa, the only time you should have to report is if there is a change in your status, i.e.: divorce, death of Thai spouse, new marriage, change of address.

4) For the retirement visa, change the laws regarding buying condo's & land/houses, to allow those with the financial means to do so.

5) Allow those with Retirement or Marriage visa to also obtain Work Permits which will allow them to work in the fields and areas for which they are quailified, which can't be done now. There is an untapped, and totally shunned, fountain of knowledge that many foreigners would be thrilled to have the opportunity to share, thereby benefiting the Thai.

But, as I said, none of this will every happen, so I deal with things and keep going.

I disagree with you point 5.

Ok, retirement is retirement, I agree with the Thai government. But once you are married - or have permanent citizenship - you should not need a work permit nay more.

And my point 6 is that once you have a non-imm or imm visa (including PR), you should not need a re-entry permit any more.

[tombkk]

I agree with the comments that a certain degree of proof reading would have been appropriate. However, I feel some of the criticism is harsh.

It may well be that the author has the ear of the Prime Minister and as such some good may come of the letter.

Ouch. Please tell him not to represent me.

[citizen33]

I don't disagree with some of the content, but how on earth did somebody who writes like Mr Noyes get a 'Bachelor's degree. in Journalism, University of Tennessee'?

http://pattaya-times...lyadej-bhumibol

Edited January 9, 2012 by citizen33

[cowslip]

There are other foreigners in Thailand besides the Pattaya expat community and the issues are much broader than it would seem the OP seems to realise - this is a very ego-centric effort.

If foreigners are really interested in "changing" their situation in Thailand then a pan-national organisation should be formed and given the remit to produce a document to be presented to the Thai government that is truly representative of the needs of foreigners living in Thailand........ Not a onesided doc produced over lunch by a few (myopic?) US expats.

So what's holding you up?

What do you mean?

[cowslip]

It may not be the same in all countries but believe me in my country immigration laws are far worse than in Thailand.

Don't like the way it is here ? You are always free to find another place to stay, no one is forcing you.

Of course, beers and girls are usually more expensive elsewhere .... but if thats why you are staying you should really consider leaving.

Along with "if you don't like it go home brigade, this is a pretty facile argument.

This is a Thai forum about Thailand and the faults of other nations don't mitigate the Thai failings.

[cedel]

After having worked and saved in my country ,or if I was selling my house in my country for instance, I would want to be able to buy a house (with land) here without beeing "borderline" with "companies" and beeing scared to lose one day the fruits of my savings ! How horrible is this feeling...(so is "dual-pricing btw..)

It's just a fundamental democratic right to have your own house with a small land around it !

Really? While I'd like to own my own piece of land, I don't think it's a democratic right but a privilege. Please explain or send a link to explain your view.

Do you know many civilized countries where you are not allowed to buy land ?

[cowslip]

I agree with the comments that a certain degree of proof reading would have been appropriate. However, I feel some of the criticism is harsh.

It may well be that the author has the ear of the Prime Minister and as such some good may come of the letter.

Ouch. Please tell him not to represent me.

Don't be naive - this is meant to be a letter to a government -

Proof reading isn't the problem... it is the language of a 14 year old school kid.

[cowslip]

I agree with the comments that a certain degree of proof reading would have been appropriate. However, I feel some of the criticism is harsh.

It may well be that the author has the ear of the Prime Minister and as such some good may come of the letter.

Ouch. Please tell him not to represent me.

me too!!!

[tombkk]

After having worked and saved in my country ,or if I was selling my house in my country for instance, I would want to be able to buy a house (with land) here without beeing "borderline" with "companies" and beeing scared to lose one day the fruits of my savings ! How horrible is this feeling...(so is "dual-pricing btw..)

It's just a fundamental democratic right to have your own house with a small land around it !

Really? While I'd like to own my own piece of land, I don't think it's a democratic right but a privilege. Please explain or send a link to explain your view.

Do you know many civilized countries where you are not allowed to buy land ?

No I don't. But I also don't think it has to do with civilization or democratic rights, but it is a privilege.

[cowslip]

There are other foreigners in Thailand besides the Pattaya expat community and the issues are much broader than it would seem the OP seems to realise - this is a very ego-centric effort.

If foreigners are really interested in "changing" their situation in Thailand then a pan-national organisation should be formed and given the remit to produce a document to be presented to the Thai government that is truly representative of the needs of foreigners living in Thailand........ Not a onesided doc produced over lunch by a few (myopic?) US expats.

That pan-national organisation exists and is called the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT). And they are indeed in touch with the government. But they do this on a professional basis, rather than this deliberately sub-standard Open Letter, which is made to appeal to

actually I don't think that is an appropriate organisation for the job.....this is not only trade and commerce, it is political.

I'm sure they have a part to play, but I would like to see an organisation created specifically with the remit to put forward the concerns of foreigners with a wider base and in a more lobbying way.

Edited January 9, 2012 by cowslip

[cowslip]

There are other foreigners in Thailand besides the Pattaya expat community and the issues are much broader than it would seem the OP seems to realise - this is a very ego-centric effort.

If foreigners are really interested in "changing" their situation in Thailand then a pan-national organisation should be formed and given the remit to produce a document to be presented to the Thai government that is truly representative of the needs of foreigners living in Thailand........ Not a onesided doc produced over lunch by a few (myopic?) US expats.

That pan-national organisation exists and is called the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT). And they are indeed in touch with the government. But they do this on a professional basis, rather than this deliberately sub-standard Open Letter, which is made to appeal to

[cowslip]

There are other foreigners in Thailand besides the Pattaya expat community and the issues are much broader than it would seem the OP seems to realise - this is a very ego-centric effort.

If foreigners are really interested in "changing" their situation in Thailand then a pan-national organisation should be formed and given the remit to produce a document to be presented to the Thai government that is truly representative of the needs of foreigners living in Thailand........ Not a onesided doc produced over lunch by a few (myopic?) US expats.

That pan-national organisation exists and is called the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT). And they are indeed in touch with the government. But they do this on a professional basis, rather than this deliberately sub-standard Open Letter, which is made to appeal to

actually I don't think that is an appropriate organisation for the job.....this is not only trade and commerce, it is political.

I'm sure they have a part to play, but I would like to see an organisation created specifically with the remit to put forward the concerns of foreigners with a wider base and in a more lobbying way.

quite frankly that "open letter" is an embarrassment.

[Exsexyman]

I don't disagree with some of the content, but how on earth did somebody who writes like Mr Noyes get a 'Bachelor's degree. in Journalism, University of Tennessee'?

http://pattaya-times...lyadej-bhumibol

To find out the answer to that question i suggest you do some research on Mr Noyes. Google is your friend.

[cowslip]

First of all, if he was an attorney, he would know better than to post such a blatant comment like : "Please accept this letter as a request on behalf of many foreigners living in Thailand like myself". He is NOT speaking for me and I am sure he is NOT speaking for many expats here in Thailand.

Secondly, all this will do is give the government new ideas as to how to take away what we now have and new ways for them to make money on us. They don't want us here to begin with; they only like our MONEY!

And to state that he knows she is busy dealing with the floods, don't forget he top priority right now is getting her brother back into the country without causing a civil war

So, speak for yourself, not ALL of us.

Exactly...... and if he was a half decent attorney he wouldn't embarrass himself and us with such a pathetic, error strewn letter.

hear! Hear!

[cowslip]

For reasons that I cannot say, without Mr. Noyes consent, I am sure that the letter will get to Ms. Yingluck and will get her attention. I am also sure that she, or anyone else concerned will not even be aware of the small grammatical errors in it. What I am also sure of is the absolute vitality of the contents. Most of the issues mentioned concern me directly. I am married to a Thai national; I paid for a house (do not, as many will know, actually 'own' it) and live here on an income somewhere in the range of the visa requirement. When i first came to live here, the baht was 42 to the dollar; now it is 31. As such my "income" has shrank by 25%-not really my fault. I support three Thai nationals, as well as myself, with this money. Supposing there is another US disaster-say the election of Michele Bachman as president-and the dollar shrinks further. Maybe I no longer qualify for my Visa-do I just dump my house, wife, mother-in-law and step-daughter and leave? And go where? I live here and have for seven years. I do not like the thought that my future, and that of those dear to me, is to be decided by the world's currency traders, or, for that matter, the Thai Immigration Department.

Ms. Yingluck, please listen to Khun Drew; your brother did and it helped Thailand emerge from the '97 Asian financial cataclysm.

First post on this forum.

Are you a clone of Mr. Drew ?

"I am also sure that she, or anyone else concerned will not even be aware of the small grammatical errors in "

THe sad thing is that some posters think that all that is wrong with this letter are the "grammatical errors" - that has little or nothing to do with it...it is the pathetic schoolboy LANGUAGE that is the problem and of course the content.

how anyone could consider making such a letter public is beyond me. Maybe he was drunk when he came up with the idea and wouldn't listen to the advice of others???

Edited January 9, 2012 by cowslip

[cedel]

After having worked and saved in my country ,or if I was selling my house in my country for instance, I would want to be able to buy a house (with land) here without beeing "borderline" with "companies" and beeing scared to lose one day the fruits of my savings ! How horrible is this feeling...(so is "dual-pricing btw..)

It's just a fundamental democratic right to have your own house with a small land around it !

Really? While I'd like to own my own piece of land, I don't think it's a democratic right but a privilege. Please explain or send a link to explain your view.

Do you know many civilized countries where you are not allowed to buy land ?

No I don't. But I also don't think it has to do with civilization or democratic rights, but it is a privilege.

"Privilege"...this was in the old time of knights and servants..... now, every citizen of the world should have this so-called privilige if he can afford it and eventually meets a few requirements like beeing married to a national for example...but here again I wonder why a country with so many ladyboys thus rather "open minded" can still make such differences with man/women, marriage or not !

[cowslip]

The letter to the PM is not going to be taken seriously, but at least it will get the Thai Government thinking that the immigration laws are maybe due for some reform. There is a large number of foreigners living already in the Kingdom. IMHO there should be some form of differentiation enabling those with a proper education and proper work experience to be able to live with more relaxed visa regulations, while at the same time limited the undesirable foreigners, as the authorities deem is appropriate.

The request for citizenship for foreign husband is a highly desirable idea, however although I don't think they will grant it, at least they should make a legal route so that interested foreingners can eventually attain citizenship, or at least permanent resident status. Even though the permanent resident status exsits, the quota must be increased for each country and the achievements of the foreigner's contribution to the Kingdom should be considered.

Immigrations law reforms can only take place if there is a will from the Government and I believe that there is not enogh interest at the present time. Certainly, if other nations are involved and a reciprocate aggreement is arranged for Thais who wish to reside abroad, it would be much more probable to expect reform in this law. But consider how hard it is, for a example for a Thai citizen to obtain US or UK residency.

The important thing is to remember that regardless of the visa laws, the Kingdom does want to have elite foreigners. All that is needed is to have some reform. What they do not want, is foreigners, doing nothing good for the society.

Good start "The letter to the PM is not going to be taken seriously, but at least it will get the Thai Government thinking that the immigration laws are maybe due for some reform" - a contradiction - make up your mind, why not!

[tombkk]

There are other foreigners in Thailand besides the Pattaya expat community and the issues are much broader than it would seem the OP seems to realise - this is a very ego-centric effort.

If foreigners are really interested in "changing" their situation in Thailand then a pan-national organisation should be formed and given the remit to produce a document to be presented to the Thai government that is truly representative of the needs of foreigners living in Thailand........ Not a onesided doc produced over lunch by a few (myopic?) US expats.

That pan-national organisation exists and is called the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT). And they are indeed in touch with the government. But they do this on a professional basis, rather than this deliberately sub-standard Open Letter, which is made to appeal to

actually I don't think that is an appropriate organisation for the job.....this is not only trade and commerce, it is political.

I'm sure they have a part to play, but I would like to see an organisation created specifically with the remit to put forward the concerns of foreigners with a wider base and in a more lobbying way.

I see you are not familiar with the workings of the JFCCT.

[Halfaboy]

So far no comments from mr. Drew himself. Could it be that he is still on the phone after khun Yungrak called him for some more explanation and advise ?

[joedee]

Wow, so many of you people are slating this guy for trying.

Yes, there may be many errors in proposals and he could

have presented it in shorter form and maybe even to suit

you particular whingers more.....

But give the guy a break,,,,At least he is trying rather than

you bunch of whingers who probably have never ever tried

to assist in improving things for foreigners in Thailand..

Your just a bunch of moaning ex-pats who find anything

to moan about rather than trying to make it better....

You seem to enjoy putting the boot in more than trying

to do something about a situation.....

Shame on you all......I can only imagine that all of you

moaners are losers in life.......

Try being positive and don't bore us any more with your

whingeing,,,,or at least have the decency to P#*ss off back

to your own country and moan about that one...

Happy New Year by the way....

[TheGhostWithin]

Well whatever is written on the letter seems to be benefiting the foreigners in Thailand. But is it fine to ask for a government to change its laws so suit someone who is a "Foreigner"? Its like going to someone's house and then asking them to serve the breakfast at 5 am because its better for you? I believe that, if we are choosing to live in Thailand we should accept its rules and not ask a change in its laws. Ever imagined what would happen if all these "requests" are granted ? I mean from a Thai's point of view.

I agree, we should respect that this is not our country. however, if as foreigners we are to invest, the playing field should be fair and as much as possible, equal. The Asian financial crisis has long passed, with westen countries now facing their own financial crisis. Are such measures being placed in England? It is the Chinese buying up real estate left right and center in New York and London...

[hellodolly]

For reasons that I cannot say, without Mr. Noyes consent, I am sure that the letter will get to Ms. Yingluck and will get her attention. I am also sure that she, or anyone else concerned will not even be aware of the small grammatical errors in it. What I am also sure of is the absolute vitality of the contents. Most of the issues mentioned concern me directly. I am married to a Thai national; I paid for a house (do not, as many will know, actually 'own' it) and live here on an income somewhere in the range of the visa requirement. When i first came to live here, the baht was 42 to the dollar; now it is 31. As such my "income" has shrank by 25%-not really my fault. I support three Thai nationals, as well as myself, with this money. Supposing there is another US disaster-say the election of Michele Bachman as president-and the dollar shrinks further. Maybe I no longer qualify for my Visa-do I just dump my house, wife, mother-in-law and step-daughter and leave? And go where? I live here and have for seven years. I do not like the thought that my future, and that of those dear to me, is to be decided by the world's currency traders, or, for that matter, the Thai Immigration Department.

Ms. Yingluck, please listen to Khun Drew; your brother did and it helped Thailand emerge from the '97 Asian financial cataclysm.

First post on this forum.

Are you a clone of Mr. Drew ?

"I am also sure that she, or anyone else concerned will not even be aware of the small grammatical errors in "

THe sad thing is that some posters think that all that is wrong with this letter are the "grammatical errors" - that has little or nothing to do with it...it is the pathetic schoolboy LANGUAGE that is the problem and of course the content.

how anyone could consider making such a letter public is beyond me. Maybe he was drunk when he came up with the idea and wouldn't listen to the advice of others???

Bradwater

you have some valid points but look at it from the Thai side. You can no longer stupor your loved ones or your self because of the money value why would they want to take on the burden. For your loved ones well that is where the Thai family system comes in. I worry what will happen to my wife and mother in law as well as a few donations here and there for family schooling. But the bottom line is their family will take care of them.

[hellodolly]

Well whatever is written on the letter seems to be benefiting the foreigners in Thailand. But is it fine to ask for a government to change its laws so suit someone who is a "Foreigner"? Its like going to someone's house and then asking them to serve the breakfast at 5 am because its better for you? I believe that, if we are choosing to live in Thailand we should accept its rules and not ask a change in its laws. Ever imagined what would happen if all these "requests" are granted ? I mean from a Thai's point of view.

I agree, we should respect that this is not our country. however, if as foreigners we are to invest, the playing field should be fair and as much as possible, equal. The Asian financial crisis has long passed, with westen countries now facing their own financial crisis. Are such measures being placed in England? It is the Chinese buying up real estate left right and center in New York and London...

And that is your reason for letting them buy up Thailand. In my opinion pretty weak.

Kinda like the old if I jump of the bridge will you.

[hellodolly]

Wow, so many of you people are slating this guy for trying.

Yes, there may be many errors in proposals and he could

have presented it in shorter form and maybe even to suit

you particular whingers more.....

But give the guy a break,,,,At least he is trying rather than

you bunch of whingers who probably have never ever tried

to assist in improving things for foreigners in Thailand..

Your just a bunch of moaning ex-pats who find anything

to moan about rather than trying to make it better....

You seem to enjoy putting the boot in more than trying

to do something about a situation.....

Shame on you all......I can only imagine that all of you

moaners are losers in life.......

Try being positive and don't bore us any more with your

whingeing,,,,or at least have the decency to P#*ss off back

to your own country and moan about that one...

Happy New Year by the way....

I don't know you personally but I would be willing to bet your idea of improving things for them is just make things like where you come from.

Perhaps if you would try to fit in with them you will see they are not a bad lot at all.

[janverbeem]

Haha,Drew Noyes pulling some attention ( read free publicity) to his newspaper and law office once again,and again TV is stepping into it with both feet or is scratching each others back.

Why doesn't he send the letter straight to Yingluck,I'm sure he has the address.

This guy has never written anything more than a ( bad ) joke and is in the same boat as that other media Mongol oops mogul who's name is very sensitive on this board.

[joedee]

Wow, so many of you people are slating this guy for trying.

Yes, there may be many errors in proposals and he could

have presented it in shorter form and maybe even to suit

you particular whingers more.....

But give the guy a break,,,,At least he is trying rather than

you bunch of whingers who probably have never ever tried

to assist in improving things for foreigners in Thailand..

Your just a bunch of moaning ex-pats who find anything

to moan about rather than trying to make it better....

You seem to enjoy putting the boot in more than trying

to do something about a situation.....

Shame on you all......I can only imagine that all of you

moaners are losers in life.......

Try being positive and don't bore us any more with your

whingeing,,,,or at least have the decency to P#*ss off back

to your own country and moan about that one...

Happy New Year by the way....

I don't know you personally but I would be willing to bet your idea of improving things for them is just make things like where you come from.

Perhaps if you would try to fit in with them you will see they are not a bad lot at all.

Wow, so many of you people are slating this guy for trying.

Yes, there may be many errors in proposals and he could

have presented it in shorter form and maybe even to suit

you particular whingers more.....

But give the guy a break,,,,At least he is trying rather than

you bunch of whingers who probably have never ever tried

to assist in improving things for foreigners in Thailand..

Your just a bunch of moaning ex-pats who find anything

to moan about rather than trying to make it better....

You seem to enjoy putting the boot in more than trying

to do something about a situation.....

Shame on you all......I can only imagine that all of you

moaners are losers in life.......

Try being positive and don't bore us any more with your

whingeing,,,,or at least have the decency to P#*ss off back

to your own country and moan about that one...

Happy New Year by the way....

I don't know you personally but I would be willing to bet your idea of improving things for them is just make things like where you come from.

Perhaps if you would try to fit in with them you will see they are not a bad lot at all.

Well let me tell you Dolly,,,,I live between India and Thailand and you would lose your bet.

I don't have an idea for improving things because I accept the countries that I live in, laws, rules and regulations as they are.. I am happy if people want to champion improvements for ex-pats

in these country's....My point is why don't the whingers try supporting someone if they want

change and not slagging them off for trying.......That includes yourself who is actually whingeing

at me for supporting the guy who wrote the letter.....

I would be willing to bet that you prowl this website looking for pointless arguments...

Well, Dolly this is my first and last response to you. Go looking elsewhere for a victim,,,

Maybe try the mirror. You'll find one of your own making there!!!!!..

[letitbe]

What a load of nonsense I for one totally oppose any relaxation of laws relating to foreigners owning property here. If your married to a Thai it is more than reasonable to expect you to have a mere 400,000 baht in a bank to show you are not a pauper and im sorry to say that any foreigner who comes here marries a Thai and has a family by that wife is acting totally irresponsibly by starting such a family without proper financial support for that family and 400,000 baht a year is hardly even providing any real support. I would however think if your married to a thai who has funds then their should be no problem she can simply give you the 400,000 baht. If she cant and you dont have it your both acting totally irresponsibly. I have properly provided for my Thai wife and our 2 children to the extent that she now has around 40 million baht in her own name and right and while out of pure choice I have less than half of that if our marriage of over 16 years now is not baed on proper love then it is far better I am thrown out of the country than exist in a poor country on a pittance.

I know many will disagree but do you really expect a poor country like thailand to welcome paupers from richer western nations.

It is time forangs here took their responsibilities more seriously and im fed up with constantly seeing low life forang with no proper means of support for themselves and more importantly for their Thai families bemoan the very lack financial rules for being allowed to stay here. If they dont have financial means to properly support themselves and their Thai families it would be far better they return to their own countries and if able worked to provide the needed support or if they are properly married take their Thai families to their own country instead of being a disgrace here.

IMHO