Child Support Uk - Thailand

[phuketpaddy]

Hello,

Im writing on behalf of my Thai friend. She met and moved in with a guy from the uk and she got pregnant in Thailand, he has plenty of money and promised to look after the baby but after she was 8 months pregnant he came home with another lady and threw her out. Since then he has given her not one cent, he keeps in touch usually to abuse her by text and has made several attempts to get back with her but still refused to pay anything. Does not dispute the baby is his and even said he looks like him. Now she has to work to take care of the baby and has to borrow money to send home for her baby because she dosent have enough.

Does anyone know if she can legally follow him in the U.K for child support, she dosent really want to do this but she really has no choice. Only thing is she dosent have money for a lawyer (do they work on a no win no fee basis) and shes not sure how it would work because she is in Thailand and the lawyer would be in the U.K presumably, also is it possible to get back the child support in a lump sum for the 8 months he has already not supported her as this could help her get out of debt. Again shes not greedy and she does send money home to look after the baby but she just needs a small bit from the father so she dosent fall deeper into debt, ideally she would not like to go through the courts but even when hes baby was in hospital he refused to pay anything so she has no choice, he has plenty of money but prefers to spend it on drugs and ladies in Thailand rather than hes flesh and blood, hes currently in the U.K but usually visits Thailand for long periods.

Hope someone has been through something similar or has some information that could help. Thanks

[ProfessorFart]

Does anyone know if she can legally follow him in the U.K for child support,

No in a word.

Child support is basically a way of making absent fathers and not the state pay for their kids.

If the kid was registered as a Brit, the guy was officially named and confirmed as the father and she was claiming state benefits she may have a shout.

[sriracha john]

From a very similar thread:

Another unsupported Thai mom thread

Assuming the child is indeed his, he will be obligated to support the upbringing until the child reaches the age of 18, sometimes 20.

There was a bit of a famous case earlier this year when an aged politician was found to be the father of a child and ordered to pay child support.

Published on May 31, 2005

The Central Juvenile and Family Court yesterday ordered former minister Tawich Klinpratoom to register a two-year-old boy as his legitimate son and pay the boy’s mother Bt40,000 a month in child support.

The payments must continue until the boy, Tawee Pornsri, turns 20 years old.

The court reached the verdict after hearing from three prosecution witnesses: the boy’s mother, Petcharaporn Wilairat, 20, and Petcharaporn’s mother and aunt.

They turned to the court in a bid to force Tawich, 80, a former veteran politician and minister, to legally recognise Petcharaporn’s child as his son.

If they can make a rich and influential Thai politician pay, it's an easy guess the same can be said for a foreigner to do so likewise.

Your friend should be prepared to pay... and likely it will be substantial.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looks like her best bet is to go after him when he's in Thailand.

Best of luck to her... I hope she's successful.

[phuketpaddy]

When the baby was registered in Thailand she wrote down his name as the father but how can she prove that he is the father if he wont agree to take the test.

I figured that would be part of the case that the Father would take the paternity test to prove if he was or wasnt the Father, can he be forced to take the test or does anyone know a lawyer in the U.K that work no win no fee basis that she could contact by email as phoning one would be too expensive.

If the paternity test was done what difference would it make whether the baby was registered as a Brit or not as this would prove he was the father after all if someone was trying to avoid paying child support why in their right minds would they register themselves as the father.

Also if the case was won in the U.K could the father then move to Thailand and avoid paying the child support and vice versa if the case was won in Thailand.

[ProfessorFart]

When the baby was registered in Thailand she wrote down his name as the father but how can she prove that he is the father if he wont agree to take the test.

She can't unless she can can force him legally to do so through the courts.

Also if the case was won in the U.K could the father then move to Thailand and avoid paying the child support and vice versa if the case was won in Thailand.

Yes.

does anyone know a lawyer in the U.K that work no win no fee basis that she could contact by email as phoning one would be too expensive.

No. She would have to prove paternity and in a case involving a non UK national he would be under no obligation in a British court to take a DNA test.

BTW. No win No Fee is a load of &lt;deleted&gt; as well even in civil cases.

[phuketpaddy]

So she would first need to go to a lawyer to force him to have a dna test. Then if she won the case she would need to go back to the courts and try and make him pay child support because she would then have proof he was the father. Is this the correct way.

BTW. No win No Fee is a load of &lt;deleted&gt; as well even in civil cases.

Explain more, ive had a case handled myself no win no fee and i didnt pay one cent until after i won the case. Can you explain why you think this???

Thanks for all the replies

[GuestHouse]

She can take legal action in a British Court for maintenance of the child, provided she can prove two things:

The court has jurisdiction - if the alleged father is in the UK, or he has an substantial property/funds in the UK the court will have juristiction (Substantial = earned income/house/pension etc)

The father has at any time accepted being the father. Signed any document, including letters.

The court is able then to award maintenance, failure to pay maintenance can then be used as a reason to attach earnings.

Neither the mother nor the child need to be present in the UK to make that claim

You should adress this question to a UK lawyer and/or a UK women's support group. Citzen's advice will give you more details.

[phuketpaddy]

She can take legal action in a British Court for maintenance of the child, provided she can prove two things:

The court has jurisdiction - if the alleged father is in the UK, or he has an substantial property/funds in the UK the court will have juristiction (Substantial = earned income/house/pension etc)

The father has at any time accepted being the father. Signed any document, including letters.

The court is able then to award maintenance, failure to pay maintenance can then be used as a reason to attach earnings.

Neither the mother nor the child need to be present in the UK to make that claim

You should adress this question to a UK lawyer and/or a UK women's support group. Citzen's advice will give you more details.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Guesthouse an incouraging reply, well hes in the U.K but used to make alot of extended trips to Thailand and wheter he does again remains to be seen, he hasnt a job in the U/K because he was in Thailand for a few years but he had a substancial amount of cash enough to allow him to spend £200+ a day without a job in Thailand, wheter he has a job or not now in the U.K im not sure and wheter he still has a substancial amount of cash left i would imagine so.

On the Father signing any documents i dont know i will have to check with my friend, maybe he wrote a letter or signed something during the pregnancy stage while he was still with her, would being able to prove they lived together before and after the pregnancy be any good.

Well thanks for the info and i will follow it up with the people you suggested.

Thanks

[ProfessorFart]

An official document may be admissible evidence of fatherhood.

A signed letter, unless countersigned by a reliable witness who would be willing to testify in a UK court, almost certainly will not be as the defence can claim it was signed under pressure.

The biggest problem here is that your friend would have to bring a civil paternity action against her boyfriend. As a foreign national this could possibly cost her more than she would even reap from such an action should her case fail and sureties must be provided to cover costs.

You have said yourself that she isn't after the world so unless the father is a very wealthy man in the UK and she has her eyes on a huge pile of cash I'd tell her to forget it. After all, if phoning the UK is too costly for her then bringing a civil action certainly will be.

[sriracha john]

Are there such entities in the UK like The Thai Law Society or Legal Aid and/or Law Societies in the USA that provide legal advice either free or "pro bono" as they say in the USA?

That would be a possibility for her even if she is a non-UK citizen.

I would also proffer that him being listed the father (officially, if not legally) on the birth certificate would at least provide a modicum of evidence in her favor.

[phuketpaddy]

Are there such entities in the UK like The Thai Law Society or Legal Aid and/or Law Societies in the USA that provide legal advice either free or "pro bono" as they say in the USA?

That would be a possibility for her even if she is a non-UK citizen.

I would also proffer that him being listed the father (officially, if not legally) on the birth certificate would at least provide a modicum of evidence in her favor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have contacted a few agencies and solicitors and will update any feedback, alot of conflicting answers so it would be nice to get the prospective of someone in that business, also Professorfart/Guesthouse and anyone else who replies it would be helpful when answering to say where the information is sourced from or whether it is just your opinion, might prove useful when someone is reading the thread.

Thanks again for all your help

Edited November 30, 2005 by phuketpaddy

[ProfessorFart]

You never know. Even the good old 'solicitors letter' may well do the trick.

I likeGuest Houses's advice to try a women's rights group. They may well take up her cause.

''I would also proffer that him being listed the father (officially, if not legally) on the birth certificate would at least provide a modicum of evidence in her favor.''

I'm not too sure of the Thai system but in the UK being named on the birth certificate doesn't actually prove paternity. Its merely a registration document.

[phuketpaddy]

You never know. Even the good old 'solicitors letter' may well do the trick.

I likeGuest Houses's advice to try a women's rights group. They may well take up her cause.

''I would also proffer that him being listed the father (officially, if not legally) on the birth certificate would at least provide a modicum of evidence in her favor.''

I'm not too sure of the Thai system but in the UK being named on the birth certificate doesn't actually prove paternity. Its merely a registration document.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone know of a womens rights group that might help in the uk that has a website, ive done a search but i cant find one specific to Child Support only ones for child abuse etc

Cheers

[ProfessorFart]

Professorfart/Guesthouse and anyone else who replies it would be helpful when answering to say where the information is sourced from or whether it is just your opinion, might prove useful when someone is reading the thread

My replies come from the case of a friend of mine who was harassed and threatened by his American ex.

The bottom line was that he was unsure he was the father of her child. When she wanted to return to the US she didn't want him to come with her.

He reluctantly let them go. Three months later came the threatening letters from his ex demanding maintainance.

He refused and she threatened legal action. He consulted a lawyer who told him that it was most unlikely that she would be able to afford to bring an action let alone prove paternity should he deny it as neither mother or child were UK citizens.

After being reassured that there was little chance that she could bring a successful claim against him he finally calmed down and the whole affair blew over.

Admittedly I am seeing it from the 'other side of the tracks' from you but if you need to know any more please PM me and I will gladly pass on my mates email address to you as maybe he can tell you more.

[ProfessorFart]

http://www.gingerbread.org.uk/

Try these.

Even if they can't help you directly, they may be able to point you in the right direction.

[Dragonman]

Professorfart/Guesthouse and anyone else who replies it would be helpful when answering to say where the information is sourced from or whether it is just your opinion, might prove useful when someone is reading the thread

My replies come from the case of a friend of mine who was harassed and threatened by his American ex.

The bottom line was that he was unsure he was the father of her child. When she wanted to return to the US she didn't want him to come with her.

He reluctantly let them go. Three months later came the threatening letters from his ex demanding maintainance.

He refused and she threatened legal action. He consulted a lawyer who told him that it was most unlikely that she would be able to afford to bring an action let alone prove paternity should he deny it as neither mother or child were UK citizens.

After being reassured that there was little chance that she could bring a successful claim against him he finally calmed down and the whole affair blew over.

Admittedly I am seeing it from the 'other side of the tracks' from you but if you need to know any more please PM me and I will gladly pass on my mates email address to you as maybe he can tell you more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have to agree with most of what PF and the lawyer in question said. Thailand has no reciprocal agreement with the UK or USA on child support and maintenance and Civil litigation would be required. Worth it if he has vast amounts as awards are made on income and ability to pay, not cost of living in Thailand. Having spent nearly 30 years in Civil and Property law in the UK, I would be very surprised if there is a philanthropic lawyer out there who will take on the case. Besides a judgement in a Thai Court should be first obtained, as although it has no value in a British Court legally, the Judge will take the details into account.

The Uk does not have such firm laws as the USA on "deadbeat dads" and American lawyers may be more prepared to work on "no win no fee basis".

The DNA and proving paternity is not such a restriction in a Civil Action where only the "preponderance" factor is required.

Whatever the result it will be a long drawn out and costly experience involving the conflicting laws of 2 countries with different ideas on parental resposibility.

Even when judgements are made they then have to be enforced, and there are even "bounty hunters" in Bangkok who will try and get the money from the father, for a fee.

[phuketpaddy]

Thanks Dragon, good to get some advice from someone that has knowledge of the industry and your information was backed up by this email i recieved from citizens advice in the uk

I have contacted the Child Support Agency in connection with your question about help and was told the following.

You and your child live outside British jurisdiction and are not in recite of Child Benefit for your child.  This means that you are not entitled to any benefits under the British Goverment.  As your child was born in Thailand and not in Britian they are not a British Subject even if the fathers name is on the birth certificate.  I am sorry to bring bad news but I am afraid that there is nothing further I can do as you do not live in Britian. 

So that answers my question. Thanks

[sriracha john]

It appears she'll have to go after the deadbeat if and whenever he returns to Thailand.... and then nail him to the maximum possible here.

Hope she's able to do so.