Autopsies Of Deceased Red Shirt Victims Conducted

[webfact]

Autopsies of Deceased Red Shirt Victims Conducted

A Deputy Prime Minister revealed that officers are now conducting autopsies on the bodies of red-shirt protesters killed during an extensive political crackdown during the Abhisit administration.

Former fugitive leader Thaksin Shinawatra's legal adviser Robert Amsterdam spoke with Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung yesterday at the Parliament, regarding the political crackdown on the red-shirts in 2010 that contributed to large number of casualties.

Chalerm said the officers have almost finished performing autopsies on the bodies of 16 red-shirt protesters killed during the riots.

All related documents are expected to be forwarded to the court by next week.

He explained that the court will then conduct further investigations to conclude the causes of the deaths.

In the event that officials are found to have been involved in the deaths, the Office of National Anti-Corruption Commission will intervene.

Chalerm pledged to ensure that justice is served for all the victims.

Moreover, Chalerm said according to reports from the Department of Special Investigation, or DSI, there is no anti-monarchy plot diagram.

The DSI said the previous National Security Council Secretary-General, Tawil Pliensi, insisted that there is a conspiracy map to overthrow the monarchy.

However, Chalerm instructed DSI Chief Tharit Pengdit to further investigate the matter.

He pledged to punish those found to be guilty in the vicious plot to overthrow the monarchy, and to punish those who spread rumors in the event that the plot diagram does not exist.

Chalerm added that the rehabilitation program for those affected by the protest crackdown will continue.

-- Tan Network 2012-01-20

[Soutpeel]

I am no medical expert, but considering how long ago this happened, wouldnt it have been better conducting the autopsies a lot closer to the time of death, instead of leaving it until now ?

Also cant get my head around why the Anti-corruption committee would be involved in a wrongful death investigation ?.....unless of course the deceased paid bribes to goverment officials to be shot ??

[OzMick]

16 bodies, is that a typo? I thought Amsterdam found 169 at Rayong.

[phiphidon]

I am no medical expert, but considering how long ago this happened, wouldnt it have been better conducting the autopsies a lot closer to the time of death, instead of leaving it until now ?

Also cant get my head around why the Anti-corruption committee would be involved in a wrongful death investigation ?.....unless of course the deceased paid bribes to goverment officials to be shot ??

Regarding your first question - would be best directed towards Abhisit first, then the CRES and the DSI. I mean who would have a vested interest in delaying the autopsies if none of your security forces were involved in the shootings and your defence is that the red/black shirts shot at the red shirts. This approach may have been reinforced when a leaked report into the first deaths investigated showed that security forces were involved in these deaths - until after a convenient visit made by the Army Chief and the decision being magically reversed in at least one of the cases.

2nd question - whilst obviously a facecitious remark in poor taste the answer may lie in the above; the DSI has been shown to be malleable at the very least so maybe the anti corruption guys are regarded as less prone to coercion.

[phiphidon]

16 bodies, is that a typo? I thought Amsterdam found 169 at Rayong.

No, it's not a typo as you well know but was a brave attempt to divert attention to a completely different and erroneous statement.

[Buchholz]

16 bodies, is that a typo? I thought Amsterdam found 169 at Rayong.

No, it's not a typo as you well know but was a brave attempt to divert attention to a completely different and erroneous statement.

Are these the Red Shirt bodies that the Red Shirts dragged around the streets of Bangkok?

.

[Briggsy]

1) Dictate or negotiate outcome with all vested parties.

2) Have your patsy lined up.

3) Ensure all 'evidence' points to the 'correct' outcome.

4) Announce the results at a well-covered press conference with compliant members of the media ensuring you use the verbs, 'explain' and 'reveal' so as to present yourself as the arbiter of all knowledge.

5) Denounce any party who points to any factual discrepancies.

[AleG]

The results are in: they are still dead.

After more than a year what are they expecting to find in the remains? Have the bodies been kept frozen or where they exhumed?

Anyway, I guess Amsterdam is trying to secure the Thaksin account and keep the money flowing, he has to do do something to justify his paycheck.

[TAWP]

16 bodies, is that a typo? I thought Amsterdam found 169 at Rayong.

No, it's not a typo as you well know but was a brave attempt to divert attention to a completely different and erroneous statement.

Correct, the previous press release from Robert A. that red shirt bodies, 169+ of them, had been found in a mass-grave was indeed erroneous as it was completely unrelated bodies.

[TAWP]

Why would Robert A. talk to Chalerm - did the latter refuse to take the Skype calls from Thaksin?

[OzMick]

16 bodies, is that a typo? I thought Amsterdam found 169 at Rayong.

No, it's not a typo as you well know but was a brave attempt to divert attention to a completely different and erroneous statement.

I have to agree that the erroneous statement by Amsterdam was an attempt to divert attention. I was reminding others of Mr Amsterdam's role in the comedy of errors that is thai politics - a lying and obfuscating spin doctor. And I don't believe that anybody has suggested that NONE of the red shirt deaths were at the hands of the authorities.

[siampolee]

Any chances of autopsies being carried out on the body of a missing Thai lawyer if the body is ever found ?

Be careful Amsterdam there are many skeletons in your paymasters closet.

Amsterdam is somewhat creative with the truth as his past record and claims concerning some of his legal connections show only too well.

The man is nothing more than an Itinerant rabble rouser of the lowest order as is his paymaster.

Edited January 20, 2012 by siampolee

[phiphidon]

16 bodies, is that a typo? I thought Amsterdam found 169 at Rayong.

No, it's not a typo as you well know but was a brave attempt to divert attention to a completely different and erroneous statement.

I have to agree that the erroneous statement by Amsterdam was an attempt to divert attention. I was reminding others of Mr Amsterdam's role in the comedy of errors that is thai politics - a lying and obfuscating spin doctor. And I don't believe that anybody has suggested that NONE of the red shirt deaths were at the hands of the authorities.

Well you obviously didn't believe Abhisit, Suthep and the Army Spokesman then. FYI the public brought the bodies to the attention of the police.

Posted 2011-08-19 06:24:51

Police suspect they have found bodies of missing reds

By The Nation

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/491628-thai-police-suspect-they-have-found-bodies-of-169-missing-red-shirts/

You will note the headline - Robert Amsterdam merely quoted the news report - so more lies and spin from you then.

[TAWP]

Posted 2011-08-19 06:24:51

Police suspect they have found bodies of missing reds

By The Nation

http://www.thaivisa....ing-red-shirts/

You will note the headline - Robert Amsterdam merely quoted the news report - so more lies and spin from you then.

No, Robert A. didn't quote the news, he posted tweet about it the day before it was in any newspapers.

[Buchholz]

Posted 2011-08-19 06:24:51

Police suspect they have found bodies of missing reds

By The Nation

http://www.thaivisa....ing-red-shirts/

You will note the headline - Robert Amsterdam merely quoted the news report - so more lies and spin from you then.

No, Robert A. didn't quote the news, he posted tweet about it the day before it was in any newspapers.

- so, more lies and spin then from the previous poster.

.

[whybother]

officers have almost finished performing autopsies on the bodies of 16 red-shirt protesters killed during the riots.

Almost????????? It's been nearly 2 years. Even the PTP has been in power for 6 months. Why "Almost"?

[hellodolly]

Al this nonsense to make it look like the red shirts were innocent of any wrong. They truly must have a very low opinion of Thai's to think they will believe there nonsense. I doubt if any of them do believe it them selves just hoping others will.

The red shirts were killed in the armed illegal seizure of Public Domain. END OF STORY

[Nisa]

I guess they didn't like the results of the autopsies done after the riots.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Nisa

[ginjag]

I guess they didn't like the results of the autopsies done after the riots.

Keep the bodies for another 3 and a half years, and see if anything more they can find, scheme, concoct --are they looking for undetectable poisons ???...........athletes steroids ????............germ warfare ?????? for gods sake, keeping them for what, they ought to have been burned at the stake for what they did, and anyone else that shites the country up. Makes me sick to think what's going on here, they couldn't run a raffle properly. Warped is the word that comes to mind.

[geriatrickid]

I guess they didn't like the results of the autopsies done after the riots.

I was unaware that thorough autopsies had been performed at the time.

[whybother]

I guess they didn't like the results of the autopsies done after the riots.

I was unaware that thorough autopsies had been performed at the time.

August 2010

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Justice-ministry-to-announce-autopsy-results-of-sl-30136324.html

[phiphidon]

- so, more lies and spin then from the previous poster.

.

I apologise (it's where a person admits they're wrong , Buchholz, in case you have difficulty with recognising the term). The twitter sent out by R.Amsterdam was sent on 18th August.

Discovery of a mass grave of 169 people in Thailand raises suspicion that they could be disappeared red shirts

But note the time that The Nation post "Police suspect they have found bodies of missing reds" appeared on Thai Visa;

06:24:51 on the 19th along with it's associated story.

Now I know that the nations stories are written in a slipshod way but it would make sense that this story had been written on the previous day - Amsterdam would have been informed and he sends out the twitter but with the caveat "raises suspicion" which is not the same as R.Amsterdam starting the rumour of the bodies being missing red shirts.

Note also that on the same day that the papers are continuing with the story that "Police suspect they have found bodies of missing reds" R.Amsterdam sends out the following twitter;

Latest reports I am hearing is that it is unlikely that the mass graves discovered in Thailand are disappeared Red Shirts from 2010

and retweeted a twitter from the Rajprasong News pointing out the fact that the bodies are not likely to be red shirts;

Thida reveals UDD notified 60 Reds missing to Mirror Foundation and she is not convinced 169 corps at Rayong were Reds - DNN

Hardly the actions of a "rumour starter" do you not think?

[hellodolly]

I guess they didn't like the results of the autopsies done after the riots.

I was unaware that thorough autopsies had been performed at the time.

Just add it to your list of

I was unawares

[JulesMad]

As a Dutchman I object to the name Robert Amsterdam; this gives Amsterdam (the city) a bad reputation.

Robert A. sounds much much better (that's how we describe suspected persons)

"IF IT AINT DUTCH IT AINT MUCH"

[geriatrickid]

I guess they didn't like the results of the autopsies done after the riots.

I was unaware that thorough autopsies had been performed at the time.

August 2010

http://www.nationmul...l-30136324.html

Not so fast. What was reported as an autopsy was to the best of my information, incomplete examinations that gave rise to many legitimate questions. There is a big difference. Read the news report at the time highlighting the deficiencies.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/392815-anger-over-red-shirts-riot-autopsy-reports/page__view__findpost__p__3834310

IMO there was a go slow approach because the ramifications of the results being released at the time would have been explosive.

The autopsies and the details were intentionally delayed.. Despite the announcement from the Abhisit government that the results were to be released in August 2010, the results were not fully released. Here's an example of the concern raised in September 2010.

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/104935.html

[geriatrickid]

I guess they didn't like the results of the autopsies done after the riots.

I was unaware that thorough autopsies had been performed at the time.

Just add it to your list of

I was unawares

And you should take a course in pathology so that you understand that a post mortem exam is not an autopsy.

[whybother]

And you should take a course in pathology so that you understand that a post mortem exam is not an autopsy.

au·top·sy/ˈôtäpsē/

Noun:

A postmortem examination to discover the cause of death or the extent of disease: "an autopsy report".

Maybe you can explain the difference, seeing as all the definitions say that they are the same thing.

[TAWP]

What is the difference between Autopsy & Post-mortem?

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080427075403AAZkpNL

[geriatrickid]

LOL@ the shop talk. A forensic autopsy or a full forensic post mortem examination is a true slice and dice exam with blood, tissue and fluid analysis. It is signed off on by a certified pathologist. A basic post mortem exam is the cursory exam undertaken to identify the corpse and to iindicate a most likely cause of death. There usually isn't fluid or tissue sampling, nor are all of he vital organs verified by examination and weighing. For example, when the Australian body builder had a mysterious death in the sauna, his Thai post mortem exam was not thorough. To the best of my knowledge, no one checked for the presence of steroids , growth hormones etc., all of which may have been contributing factors in the man's death. The report was a 1 pager and not a detailed autopsy. IMO autopsies inThailand. just don't measure up to inaernational standards. Time and time again this has been shown whenever foreigners meet their deaths in Thailand. Remember the kid that was shot in Pai? Or how about David Carradine's demise. The autopsies performed were not considered thorough by their critics and were dismissed as cursory post mortem exams.

Edited January 21, 2012 by geriatrickid

[rixalex]

LOL@ the shop talk. A forensic autopsy or a full forensic post mortem examination is a true slice and dice exam with blood, tissue and fluid analysis. It is signed off on by a certified pathologist. A basic post mortem exam is the cursory exam undertaken to identify the corpse and to iindicate a most likely cause of death. There usually isn't fluid or tissue sampling, nor are all of he vital organs verified by examination and weighing. For example, when the Australian body builder had a mysterious death in the sauna, his Thai post mortem exam was not thorough. To the best of my knowledge, no one checked for the presence of steroids , growth hormones etc., all of which may have been contributing factors in the man's death. The report was a 1 pager and not a detailed autopsy. IMO autopsies inThailand. just don't measure up to inaernational standards. Time and time again this has been shown whenever foreigners meet their deaths in Thailand. Remember the kid that was shot in Pai? Or how about David Carradine's demise. The autopsies performed were not considered thorough by their critics and were dismissed as cursory post mortem exams.

None of the above addresses the fact that you claimed that a post mortem exam was not an autopsy. It is. Both terms have exactly the same meaning, and both terms can be used to describe a thorough process or one not so thorough.