Russians Trapped In Pattaya Following Collapse Of Tour Company

[Orac]

OHHHHHHHHHHHH, that is why there are more Russians this year than last year in Pattaya.

cancelled.

I would assume it is the other way round - loads of lost package holidays and the flights that were bringing the replacements for the ones stuck here cancelled.

[jshorts]

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

The staff of the respective Embassy would be the

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

Embassy Staff whom im sure they contacted when they got kicked to the curb without their belongings. Embassy Staff would then contact the hotel as their representatives and explain the situation to the manager and verify their collective stories. At that point it is up to the manager, and apparently this one decided to keep personal property in lieu of payment. I'm sure legal but ethical is another story. Switzerland has some of the best Hotel schools in the world and why not? Am i supposed to wear my ring to the beach? My bad.

If the hotel management gave back the personal belongings, how would it ensure collection of payment?

If Thais don't go to school here, I am still unclear why they would go to school in Switzerland.

I wear all of my rings to the beach. Why don't you?

[ozzieman05]

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

.

.

.

.

.

(Being a Stupid Westener of coarse) I would let them get to their safety deposit boxes so they can pay there bills and get their luggage back

[geriatrickid]

I'm not a hotelier, but my understanding is that a guest on a tour package is still responsible for the room costs. The tour agency acts as an intermediary. The reason the hotel is holding the personal belongings is most likely because they know that they would not be paid otherwise.It is next to impossible to collect a bad debt from a Russian unless there are assets to seize outside of Russia, Russian law does not facilitate such actions. I don't know how it works in Russia, but with some western countries, the "victim" has to pay the costs and then claim against the our agency. In the case of insolvency, some countries require travel agencies to post post bonds in order to legally operate or to have industry funds that the travel agencies pay into to cover such an event. The victim then makes a claim and receives compensation some time later.

I don't know why some folks are being mean here. These tourists are not criminals and are apparently victims. They are probably working people that saved up to go on holiday and are now screwed. This isn't about their being in the Mafia or the qualities of the Swiss hospitality trade. (i don't even know why the Swiss get dragged into this as they have some high quality personnel with excellent training.) Try and be decent here, ok?

[ozzieman05]

when myself and my family travel over seas ( and most travel shops highly advise this) we take out travel insurance

So if this happens we are covered by insurance

I see no mention of this

[transam]

I'm not a hotelier, but my understanding is that a guest on a tour package is still responsible for the room costs. The tour agency acts as an intermediary. The reason the hotel is holding the personal belongings is most likely because they know that they would not be paid otherwise.It is next to impossible to collect a bad debt from a Russian unless there are assets to seize outside of Russia, Russian law does not facilitate such actions. I don't know how it works in Russia, but with some western countries, the "victim" has to pay the costs and then claim against the our agency. In the case of insolvency, some countries require travel agencies to post post bonds in order to legally operate or to have industry funds that the travel agencies pay into to cover such an event. The victim then makes a claim and receives compensation some time later.

I don't know why some folks are being mean here. These tourists are not criminals and are apparently victims. They are probably working people that saved up to go on holiday and are now screwed. This isn't about their being in the Mafia or the qualities of the Swiss hospitality trade. (i don't even know why the Swiss get dragged into this as they have some high quality personnel with excellent training.) Try and be decent here, ok?

Wheres Boris when you need him.

[gusG]

I'm not a hotelier, but my understanding is that a guest on a tour package is still responsible for the room costs. The tour agency acts as an intermediary. The reason the hotel is holding the personal belongings is most likely because they know that they would not be paid otherwise.It is next to impossible to collect a bad debt from a Russian unless there are assets to seize outside of Russia, Russian law does not facilitate such actions. I don't know how it works in Russia, but with some western countries, the "victim" has to pay the costs and then claim against the our agency. In the case of insolvency, some countries require travel agencies to post post bonds in order to legally operate or to have industry funds that the travel agencies pay into to cover such an event. The victim then makes a claim and receives compensation some time later.

I don't know why some folks are being mean here. These tourists are not criminals and are apparently victims. They are probably working people that saved up to go on holiday and are now screwed. This isn't about their being in the Mafia or the qualities of the Swiss hospitality trade. (i don't even know why the Swiss get dragged into this as they have some high quality personnel with excellent training.) Try and be decent here, ok?

I would think that the guests have already paid for their room, the contract is between the tour agency and the hotel.

when myself and my family travel over seas ( and most travel shops highly advise this) we take out travel insurance

So if this happens we are covered by insurance

I see no mention of this

All well and good, unless the insurance company is operated by the tour group.

[yougivemebaby]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

And a devil just got his horns.

They are the victims, any hotel manager worth a salt would know this and allow access to their property and provide them with every convenience necessary until things are straightened out. And a bottle of vodka.

And, by "straightened out" you mean . . . ?

Sounds like it's partially the hotels fault for not getting payment in the first place. Business is business. Stuff happens.. If they were smart enough, they would have the money already!

[Jingthing]

I hope the Russian press is covering this story well. Russian tourists should know how they will be treated in Pattaya/Jomtien Thailand in such events. Where is the Tourism Authority now with such a potentially high profile bad PR case? Where is the mayors tourists in distress fund? Surely helping this small group is a drop in the bucket compared to the potential publicity blowback. Looking at it another, think of the fantastic GOOD PR press Thailand could get by properly TAKING CARE of these victims?

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jingthing

[FOODLOVER]

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

The staff of the respective Embassy would be the

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

Embassy Staff whom im sure they contacted when they got kicked to the curb without their belongings. Embassy Staff would then contact the hotel as their representatives and explain the situation to the manager and verify their collective stories. At that point it is up to the manager, and apparently this one decided to keep personal property in lieu of payment. I'm sure legal but ethical is another story. Switzerland has some of the best Hotel schools in the world and why not? Am i supposed to wear my ring to the beach? My bad.

If the hotel management gave back the personal belongings, how would it ensure collection of payment?

If Thais don't go to school here, I am still unclear why they would go to school in Switzerland.

I wear all of my rings to the beach. Why don't you?

All your rings? Perhaps a mohawk and a catchy phrase " I pity da fool"?

My point was the Swiss Hotel Schools are top notch and graduates would not put peoples property on lock down. It could be worked out discretely while not causing bad public relations. Whereas a University of Pattaya graduate may do the exact opposite and have their guests photographed in the local jail. Same Same but different.

Edited January 30, 2012 by FOODLOVER

[metisdead]

A post with reference to HM the King has been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

[yougivemebaby]

Holding your property is one thing. Holding your passport and wallet is another. It may be "legal" in Thailand but it shouldn't be.

If you rented your motorcycle to a stranger who gave you his ID as security and then that person didn't pay you, would you return the ID?

They were left in lock boxes, not left as a security deposit.

Can't say I agree with you. Odds are the tourists would probably ditch out on their bill. Besides offering the phone to help them get money wired to them.. this is the only way he can be somewhat guaranteed to get the money that is owed to him. Like I said.. Not great business practices either way. The hotel should have been pre-paid for this booking. His fault he's in this situation. Can't trust anyone with money. People get greedy and this is what happens. Ignorant always suffer.

[yougivemebaby]

Why is this so complicated?

Does anyone know if the tourists are refusing to pay their tabs?? If the hotel owners are that concerned that the tourists won't pay their tab, have the police on standby! I'm sure they get enough tea money from the hotel already!

Did the hotel owners have a contract with the tour company? If so, the hotel owners are F'd. Give the tourists back their belongings and stick to your piece of paper!

[Jingthing]

Some of them may indeed not be capable of paying the bill. From their point of view, they already paid the bill. Remember, a lot of these Russian (and other) tour group types are very greenhorn international tourists

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jingthing

[Reasonableman]

On the upside, they'll feel like they're right at home... ;-)

[janverbeem]

I don't know what the law is in Thailand, but in many countries if you do not pay your rent, for example, the owner can hold your property until the bill is settled.

I would doubt that any of the russians had booked a room directly with the hotel.

Edited January 30, 2012 by janverbeem

[yougivemebaby]

Some of them may indeed not be capable of paying the bill. From their point of view, they already paid the bill. Remember, a lot of these Russian (and other) tour group types are very greenhorn international tourists

I'd hate to have my cherry popped in Pattaya!

[FOODLOVER]

Some of them may indeed not be capable of paying the bill. From their point of view, they already paid the bill. Remember, a lot of these Russian (and other) tour group types are very greenhorn international tourists

I'd hate to have my cherry popped in Pattaya!

That's precious.

[4evermaat]

Sounds like it's partially the hotels fault for not getting payment in the first place. Business is business. Stuff happens.. If they were smart enough, they would have the money already!

Why is this so complicated?

Does anyone know if the tourists are refusing to pay their tabs?? If the hotel owners are that concerned that the tourists won't pay their tab, have the police on standby! I'm sure they get enough tea money from the hotel already!

Did the hotel owners have a contract with the tour company? If so, the hotel owners are F'd. Give the tourists back their belongings and stick to your piece of paper!

From what i gathered from the article, i have to agree with this. The hotel's anger is to be directed to the tour company, not the guest. It was the hotel's responsibility to collect payment from the tour operator for the room and any related expenses. The guest would only be responsible for anything not covered in the tour package.

The hotel manager made some type of asumption with the tour company, perhaps to collect delayed payment. Now that the hotel's assumption did not pan out (bankrupty or whatever), he's trying to "get something" from the guest by unlawfully holding their property hostage. the hotel's only legit remedy towards the guest was to explain bankrupty and evict the guest early or not let them stay in the hotel at all from day 1. The hotel manager refuses to take responsibility for his poor business decision. I hope 0 of the hotel guest assist in victimizing the hotel, although that may difficult if they have something valuable like passport.

Now if the payment contract was between the guest and hotel, circumstances would different....although i dont know of a single hotel that would allow you to stay more than 1 day late without payment, unless you were already a long-term guest/other pre-arrangements. Hotels/guesthouses are on prepaid basis.

"2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from ThaiVisa app.

[DP25]

If you read the full story on the website instead of just the blurb posted here the situation already seems to be resolved. The guest INITIALLY had they stuff siezed, until things were worked out. They've already purchased new tickets back to Russia

[jimmybkk]

It's all speculation until anyone sees the contracts in place, but I would also assume the contract is between the tour company and the hotel. The tour company agrees a special group rate of "x" for the rooms and sells them to their customers for "x" + "y", with "y" being the tour company's profit - and one would assume that this special rate and any other details will be confirmed in an written agreement between the tour company and the hotel.

It's quite likely that the contract only covers the room, or maybe room and a few extras (breakfast for example), in which case the guests would be liable to pay for any other meals they sign for, mini-bar items etc. and if this is all that the manager is requesting be paid as a condition of releasing their belongings from safety boxes, then in my opinion that's fair enough. If he's demanding that they pay for the rooms too then I think he's overstepped the mark.

Imagine touching down at Suvharnabumi Airport on a flight from wherever (or any airline for that matter) and to hear the captain's voice over the tannoy announce that unfortunately the tour company that you booked with have gone bust and so the attendants have locked all overhead compartments and no luggage shall leave the hold until everyone covers the cost of their ticket....

p.s. Just saw the previous post. Glad to see it's all been sorted out anyway.

[yougivemebaby]

If you read the full story on the website instead of just the blurb posted here the situation already seems to be resolved. The guest INITIALLY had they stuff siezed, until things were worked out. They've already purchased new tickets back to Russia

I did read the entire report. They must have just updated it. Jai yen yen

[TAWP]

I don't know what the law is in Thailand, but in many countries if you do not pay your rent, for example, the owner can hold your property until the bill is settled.

If the travel-agency is supposed to pay then it is towards the travel-agency they can direct their claim.

[nicky1982]

Wow Lanta Tour ruins holidays of 3,500 Russians

The sudden bankruptcy of one of Russia's major tour operators, Lanta Tour Voyage, has ruined the holidays of over 3,500 Russian tourists. The situation was most complicated in Thailand. An official spokesperson for Rosturism (the Federal Agency for Tourism) arrived in Thailand on Monday morning to regulate the problem.

The news about the bankruptcy of Lanta Tour Voyage, one of the leaders of the Russian market of tourist services, became known on Friday night. The operator announced that it was suspending its further activities. Several dozens of clients of the company could not fly abroad the same day, Bigness.ru reports.

Source http://english.pravd...3-lanta_tour-0/

Edited January 30, 2012 by metisdead
Edited for fair use.

[hellodolly]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

I was staying in a hotel in Pattaya last May and there were mainly Chinese and Russians staying there. My wife had a friend who worked at the hotel and she told her that they hate the Russian tourists because they are unfriendly and mean, whilst the Chinese are friendly and generous. Apparently the Russians want everything for nothing and nothing about the hotel is ever good enough for them. Seems these stranded types will not be getting any special treatment if hotel staff feel this way about them.

A friend of mine just returned from Pattaya and told me they were rude beyond belief. They would just push their way into line with no regard for any body. Maybe it is a good thing they get treated like they treat every one else.

Maybe the local Russian Mafia will help them out for a price.

[hellodolly]

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

The staff of the respective Embassy would be the

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

Embassy Staff whom im sure they contacted when they got kicked to the curb without their belongings. Embassy Staff would then contact the hotel as their representatives and explain the situation to the manager and verify their collective stories. At that point it is up to the manager, and apparently this one decided to keep personal property in lieu of payment. I'm sure legal but ethical is another story. Switzerland has some of the best Hotel schools in the world and why not? Am i supposed to wear my ring to the beach? My bad.

If the hotel management gave back the personal belongings, how would it ensure collection of payment?

If Thais don't go to school here, I am still unclear why they would go to school in Switzerland.

I wear all of my rings to the beach. Why don't you?

I am quite sure the schools in Switzerland don't teach there students to just roll over and play dead when they get stiffed.

They might teach them to be a little more selective of who they let in on credit.

I suppose some of the posters here think the airlines should also give them free flights.

[FOODLOVER]

Seems their representatives " Worked things out." :@)

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[hellodolly]

I hope the Russian press is covering this story well. Russian tourists should know how they will be treated in Pattaya/Jomtien Thailand in such events. Where is the Tourism Authority now with such a potentially high profile bad PR case? Where is the mayors tourists in distress fund? Surely helping this small group is a drop in the bucket compared to the potential publicity blowback. Looking at it another, think of the fantastic GOOD PR press Thailand could get by properly TAKING CARE of these victims?

You do realize you are talking about Russians don't you. Many tourists might feel like it is time they got treated like they treat others and be encouraged to come to Thailand where the Russians don't always get their way regardless of who they inconvenience.

[yougivemebaby]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

I was staying in a hotel in Pattaya last May and there were mainly Chinese and Russians staying there. My wife had a friend who worked at the hotel and she told her that they hate the Russian tourists because they are unfriendly and mean, whilst the Chinese are friendly and generous. Apparently the Russians want everything for nothing and nothing about the hotel is ever good enough for them. Seems these stranded types will not be getting any special treatment if hotel staff feel this way about them.

A friend of mine just returned from Pattaya and told me they were rude beyond belief. They would just push their way into line with no regard for any body. Maybe it is a good thing they get treated like they treat every one else.

Maybe the local Russian Mafia will help them out for a price.

That's not just Russians that do that.. Try staying in Isaan with me..

[GentlemanJim]

Just to draw lessons from this and food for thought, my understanding is that nobody can withold your passport, unless it is by court order. The passport you hold does not belong to you, it is the property of the respective Government. If anyone witholds your passport, inform the embassy at once. It belongs to them, they will get it back.