Ambush Brit Fights For Life In Hua Hin

[wolf5370]

The more I read about Thailand the more it looks like a lawless cesspit.

When I went to Phuket over ten years ago for my honeymoon I thought it would be the perfect place to retire to, and we visited several times a year.

Three years ago when the tuk tuk mafia took control of the transport situation, and foreigners seemed to have no rights whatoever, we havnt been back, and and I doubt we ever will. There simply seems to be no place that could be considered safe anymore, Chaing Mai, Hua Hin, Phuket etc.

Why was Chiang Mai on your list? Not exactly buzzing with mafia tuk tuk drivers up here! Worse you get is a 200 baht uplift on the 20b songtaew fee after midnight when obviously drunk. Can't remember the last time I saw a news report of foreigners being beaten by Thais up here - certainly not, to my memory, in the same context as the Op. Phuket, yes - Pattaya, perhaps (some parts), Bangkok even (again some parts).

These are the stories I don't really inderstand. I can understand, not approve of or accept - but understand, why police avoid mafia and connected crooks, but a couple of thugs beating holiday makers to near death? Seems like a coup really - arrest them, make an example, no one big is upset and Thai police success is published across the globe and some TAT minister can say how they look after visitors and frown on violent crime against tourists.

[vahack]

1. dont withhold payment from a Thai if you are a farang. find another way to solve the dispute.

2. never use vulgar language or raise your voice with Thai people.

3. if you cant follow Thai ways, dont live here because you will get f-ed up sooner or later.

Edited February 1, 2012 by george
profanity removed.

[samsiam]

I feel sory for the chap and his family but - while in no way condoning the assault - he was warned very specifically that unless he paid he would be in trouble; Thailand is a place where you take that warning very seriously .... and for Baht 12,000.- it was crazy not to take the hint.

Patrick

Yes, best to just bend over and take it up the Khyber Pass and accept seriously shoddy work that you pay good money for.....some people have the gonads to stand up, some do not. Unfortunately for this guy and his family, his son in particular I would imagine....it did not work out so well. This can happen in the west also.

I have built a couple of houses here and I would have to say that I did not pay in full about 50% of contractors because of poor work and in some cases...non existant work.

I luckily did not end up like this, but I will do it all again if work provided is not what is agreed upon and paid for....simple.

Edited February 1, 2012 by george
removed deleted quote

[cowslip]

Terrible thing to happen.

What can be learned?

Firstly the cultural differences when doing business..and how do we choose the people we do business with?

It also underlines in the most dramatic fashion the massive gulf between expectations and reality when it comes to customer service in Thailand.

Any business in Thailand - not just building - has a long way to go before they realise just what is acceptable customer satisfaction when a good or service is being offered. Even the most respectable companies tend to blame the customer not themselves for any shortcomings that occur before,after or during a business transaction.

THere should be a recognised complaints procedure or some form of consumer protection laws - but there is still virtually nothing to help and no enforcement at all. THe plaintiff is on a hiding to nothing.

...and in this case the company felt quite safe in responding to the complaint with violence- anything to make it go away.

UK consumer law is extremely effective - in fat a similar form has just been taken on in Australia, even then there are problems, but this terrible incident is very likely just the tip of the iceberg in Thailand - enforceable legislation is urgently required.

.......and foreigners need to be aware of the total lack of cutover service in Thailand before they embark on any kind of business deal.

Edited February 1, 2012 by cowslip

[spidermike007]

Do absolutely everything you can to embarrass the police. They are a goon squad, with little incentive to convict a local. Even for crimes as horrendous as this one. They need to get black eyes in the press, worldwide, someone in power will take notice, and out of loss of face, something may get done. Do not let it go. Also, we need to start publishing names of the contractors engaging in these practices. They need to be put out of business, and it needs to happen quickly. They only do this kind of nonsense, because there is little chance of getting caught, and paying a price for it, should the tiny chance of getting caught actually happen.

[happysanook]

this is a horrible thing that happened... i often try to come to terms with how sheisty and downright dirty the Thai can be... the country has some of the most downright dirty double-dealing scum on the earth.

but take a gang or mafia from any big city in america and put them up against any thai gang or mafia, and you can bet your britches the thai would be pitifully spanked. they have no clue what hard is.

but Thailand also produces some of the most genuinely sweet people too. they put the sweet people in the west to shame....

so if the sweetest of the sweet put the west to shame, and the worst of the worst from the west put the thai to shame..................i believe this is the case, so i'm not sure where my feelings of "(fill in the blank)" are rooted... in prejudice?? or in spite because i'm a foreigner here who daily receives the ant treatment?? perhaps neither of these or a combination of these and something else...perhaps the strongest feeling is towards the law who do virtually nothing and care nothing about cases like this if a farang is involved.

anyways... maybe i'm getting too deep. back on topic -> horrible thing that happened and hope some justice comes to the family.

[vahack]

1. dont withhold payment from a Thai if you are a farang. find another way to solve the dispute.

2. never use vulgar language or raise your voice with Thai people.

3. if you cant follow Thai ways, dont live here because you will get f-ed up sooner or later.

i should add, if u want paradise, go to the beaches for vacation. dont build there. i dont see these kinds of attacks happening in Isaan. when we want paradise, we take a beach trip. we dont try to build a house down where all of Thailand's gangsters, thugs, and politicians live.

[vahack]

Do absolutely everything you can to embarrass the police. They are a goon squad, with little incentive to convict a local. Even for crimes as horrendous as this one.

the police and builder see it differently. they see a farang that stole money from a Thai builder and refuses to pay. he got the work but wont pay. it would be seen the same in the West, but here they have Thai justice. i have no doubt that builder would have redone the work if they would have received payment. we had our builders redo things many times. you have to show respect at all times, not be a Brit.

[transam]

The more I read about Thailand the more it looks like a lawless cesspit.

When I went to Phuket over ten years ago for my honeymoon I thought it would be the perfect place to retire to, and we visited several times a year.

Three years ago when the tuk tuk mafia took control of the transport situation, and foreigners seemed to have no rights whatoever, we havnt been back, and and I doubt we ever will. There simply seems to be no place that could be considered safe anymore, Chaing Mai, Hua Hin, Phuket etc.

And the UK.

Don't you worry, you'll be safe at Butlins.

[p_brownstone]

I feel sory for the chap and his family but - while in no way condoning the assault - he was warned very specifically that unless he paid he would be in trouble; Thailand is a place where you take that warning very seriously .... and for Baht 12,000.- it was crazy not to take the hint.

Patrick

Yes, best to just bend over and take it up the Khyber Pass and accept seriously shoddy work that you pay good money for.....some people have the gonads to stand up, some do not. Unfortunately for this guy and his family, his son in particular I would imagine....it did not work out so well. This can happen in the west also.

I have built a couple of houses here and I would have to say that I did not pay in full about 50% of contractors because of poor work and in some cases...non existant work.

I luckily did not end up like this, but I will do it all again if work provided is not what is agreed upon and paid for....simple.

It is entirely possible to withhold payment - even in Thailand - for shoddy workmanship etc. and 99 times out of 100 you can make an amicable agreement, however if you cannot do so and it gets to the point where you are receiving Emails such as the one this chap received the wisest course is to pay up - nothing to do with "gonads" it's just common sense.

And for Baht 20,000.- ??

So come on - tell us all what you would have done had you received such an Email?

Patrick

[JohanBKK]

I hope they are not in town right now because with an article like this they will not last much longer, not only talking about their case but also about other cases.

[happysanook]

Do absolutely everything you can to embarrass the police. They are a goon squad, with little incentive to convict a local. Even for crimes as horrendous as this one.

the police and builder see it differently. they see a farang that stole money from a Thai builder and refuses to pay. he got the work but wont pay. it would be seen the same in the West, but here they have Thai justice. i have no doubt that builder would have redone the work if they would have received payment. we had our builders redo things many times. you have to show respect at all times, not be a Brit.

b

ur builders and this guys builders are obviously different people. and likely ur the exception rather than the norm.

saying u have no doubt the work would of been redone if he'd paid... .. seems naive at best.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[epicsessions]

eye 4 eye...if the authorities wont do the right thing then take matters into ones own hands. acting civilized appears to accomplish nothing. maybe when the thugs get a taste of their own medicine the will think twice next time.

[BazilFox]

Hi

Not sure why it has taken so long for this story to unfold, a couple of month's ???

I know someone close to this guy's brother, this story is not accurate. I heard the correct story just after it had happened, the brother's have fallen out, they don't speak. the guy has a temper and has been upsetting the local's. Its a different culture, I find Thai's quite tolerant, but they are proud, in a situation its their Country.

Its best Thais and Foreigner's live seperately, to live alongside Thai's, constant cooking, music on at different times of the day, motorbike's and dogs aplenty, you would have to have the tolerance level of a cat. We are best in segregated Estate's with our little luxury's.

When I go to the town Hua Hin and talk to the Ex Pats who frequent the bars I am amazed to how many are carryout illegal activitie's, Those who have married Thai's to stay in Thailand, those who put assets in their wife's/girlfriends name, why? To avoid paying tax and raising correct paperwork. Short term it may work but when the assets are in the Thai;'s name, who has the power.

Stupid Foreigner.

Foreigner's forget, "We are guests here".

[Baerboxer]

Not the first attack on farangs due to crooked Thais. Remember the American Donald who was shot and parilyzed after arguing with a builder? His Thai wife hired 2 men to kill him. The police did nothing and then Abhisit became PM and this shooting was one of the crimes he wanted solved....didn't take long to solve.

According to the weblink article the builder in question is a fugitive from Britain wanted for drug related crimes. Hardly keeping a low profile.

[Okertes]

The more I read about Thailand the more it looks like a lawless cesspit.

When I went to Phuket over ten years ago for my honeymoon I thought it would be the perfect place to retire to, and we visited several times a year.

Three years ago when the tuk tuk mafia took control of the transport situation, and foreigners seemed to have no rights whatoever, we havnt been back, and and I doubt we ever will. There simply seems to be no place that could be considered safe anymore, Chaing Mai, Hua Hin, Phuket etc.

We live in Chiang Mai for 2 years and we still alive and very happy :-)

[robertson468]

This is old news and inaccurate. According to Paul's mother Anita, the attack took place on 21 November, not in December.

Of course, and very unfortunately, Paul wasn't wearing a helmet and it was hitting his head on the concrete road as a result of the attack that fractured his skull, not a blow to the head by his assailant who reportedly was armed with a tree branch, not a club per se.

The couple were planning to return home last December. The attack happened on November 21st. I am glad you were a witness to him cracking his skull on the road, perhaps you would go to the police station and make a statement.

Well said and do remind me to get hit with a tree branch and not a club - duh!!!!!!!!!!

[Payboy]

Of course, and very unfortunately, Paul wasn't wearing a helmet and it was hitting his head on the concrete road as a result of the attack that fractured his skull, not a blow to the head by his assailant who reportedly was armed with a tree branch, not a club per se.

So, its not actually murder if you got pushed off a cliff.

[easyas]

The more I read about Thailand the more it looks like a lawless cesspit.

When I went to Phuket over ten years ago for my honeymoon I thought it would be the perfect place to retire to, and we visited several times a year.

Three years ago when the tuk tuk mafia took control of the transport situation, and foreigners seemed to have no rights whatoever, we havnt been back, and and I doubt we ever will. There simply seems to be no place that could be considered safe anymore, Chaing Mai, Hua Hin, Phuket etc.

Why was Chiang Mai on your list? Not exactly buzzing with mafia tuk tuk drivers up here! Worse you get is a 200 baht uplift on the 20b songtaew fee after midnight when obviously drunk. Can't remember the last time I saw a news report of foreigners being beaten by Thais up here - certainly not, to my memory, in the same context as the Op. Phuket, yes - Pattaya, perhaps (some parts), Bangkok even (again some parts).

These are the stories I don't really inderstand. I can understand, not approve of or accept - but understand, why police avoid mafia and connected crooks, but a couple of thugs beating holiday makers to near death?

Wasn't Chiang Mai the place where 6, 7 or 8 farangs (I forget the exact number) mysteriously died in the same hotel? Put down to coincidence, I seem to remember. Hotel owned by relative of local police chief?

As for these people being "holiday makers" - yes and no - parents out here permently, brother in business in Hua Hin

[normac44]

eye 4 eye...if the authorities wont do the right thing then take matters into ones own hands. acting civilized appears to accomplish nothing. maybe when the thugs get a taste of their own medicine the will think twice next time.

try that in Thailand and you will not last long.

[sfbandung]

12,000 baht? I paid more for a TV recently.

He received a quite calmly worded threat, normally the most dangerous. He was a wealthy guy. Just pay and politely tell him (without company) that he won't get any more work unless he makes it good.

It isn't just Thailand, in any country where you are a visitor you will be at a disadvantage. If it isn't a life changing amount of money just pay it and walk away. This is like fighting a bloke who has a gun and wants your wallet. Just give the bloody thing to him and be more careful next time.

That said however, it is tragic and I wish him and his family well.

[easyas]

Of course, and very unfortunately, Paul wasn't wearing a helmet and it was hitting his head on the concrete road as a result of the attack that fractured his skull, not a blow to the head by his assailant who reportedly was armed with a tree branch, not a club per se.

So, its not actually murder if you got pushed off a cliff.

First, no oné has died as yet - so no murder as yet.

Second, not wearing a helmet is both against the law and stupid - so even if he doesn't pull through (and I really hope he does) the police will quite probably consider his death as a self inflicted accident.

[tragickingdom]

As always nothing will happen. They might find the occasional scapegoat but the big boys will be left alone. That is the price of doing business in Thailand were the poi ice is on the payroll of criminals just like it was in the West 30, 40 years ago,

[robertson468]

The more I read about Thailand the more it looks like a lawless cesspit.

When I went to Phuket over ten years ago for my honeymoon I thought it would be the perfect place to retire to, and we visited several times a year.

Three years ago when the tuk tuk mafia took control of the transport situation, and foreigners seemed to have no rights whatoever, we havnt been back, and and I doubt we ever will. There simply seems to be no place that could be considered safe anymore, Chaing Mai, Hua Hin, Phuket etc.

We live in Chiang Mai for 2 years and we still alive and very happy :-)

I have lived on Koh Samui for seven years and even built six houses and bought two more, then turned them over to "my Thai her indoors". She (and her Family) think I am the best thing since sliced bread, despite me being a grumpy old Brit Git. Two years ago she said should we expand out her business, to which I said yep, but what is your game plan. She said I will get a job and we will save the money from that for 5 years and then we can develop it further. I also know of many Foreigners living and working on Koh Samui who are more than happy with their lot and many have Thai Families and Friends whom they value a great deal. My point - there are hundreds, if not thousands of lovely Thai people, includng those who are married to Foreigners, who are not representative of the 0.01% mafia. Just wanted to bring a positive view to balance the many negative views that have been expressed on the forum. I would also say that I am extremely sorry for those who have been victims of violence, but there again, I do not know the full story behind each case.

[red1green0]

Sensationalist reporting at its best.

[LTGTR]

God what a shame.I do hope he recovers fully.

But this is Thailand and NOTHING will be done.

Ex-pats beware especially in Hua Hin.

Thailand was once a great place to retire but after 15 months I left.It holds nothing for me.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Apart from whether all the details of the OP article are accurate, the string of attack cases reported therein points to a broader message.

It's potentially dangerous for any farang to be doing business in Thailand, especially in situations where it leads to business conflicts with Thais.

In the west, such things get fought out in courts with attorneys.... Here, more often than not...and not just in Hua Hin...such disputes seem to get settled by attacks and violence of various sorts.

Come here, live, enjoy, keep a low profile and don't get involved in serious disputes if at all possible. But going into business and crossing swords with Thais seems to be a recipe for danger.

[wolf5370]

The more I read about Thailand the more it looks like a lawless cesspit.

When I went to Phuket over ten years ago for my honeymoon I thought it would be the perfect place to retire to, and we visited several times a year.

Three years ago when the tuk tuk mafia took control of the transport situation, and foreigners seemed to have no rights whatoever, we havnt been back, and and I doubt we ever will. There simply seems to be no place that could be considered safe anymore, Chaing Mai, Hua Hin, Phuket etc.

Why was Chiang Mai on your list? Not exactly buzzing with mafia tuk tuk drivers up here! Worse you get is a 200 baht uplift on the 20b songtaew fee after midnight when obviously drunk. Can't remember the last time I saw a news report of foreigners being beaten by Thais up here - certainly not, to my memory, in the same context as the Op. Phuket, yes - Pattaya, perhaps (some parts), Bangkok even (again some parts).

These are the stories I don't really inderstand. I can understand, not approve of or accept - but understand, why police avoid mafia and connected crooks, but a couple of thugs beating holiday makers to near death?

Wasn't Chiang Mai the place where 6, 7 or 8 farangs (I forget the exact number) mysteriously died in the same hotel? Put down to coincidence, I seem to remember. Hotel owned by relative of local police chief?

As for these people being "holiday makers" - yes and no - parents out here permently, brother in business in Hua Hin

Hardly the same thing - this thread is about violent crimes, not holiday makers dieing as a result of over application of pesticides (i.e. difference between intentional violence and accidents). I also did not say they truley were holiday makers, I said that the police/TAT could use the story of a quick arrest and hard sentences to show they protect holiday makers. They may have been on non-im 'B' visas, but likelyhood is they were on tourist visas which makes them holiday makers - even Non Im 'O' would likely have been to visit family say, so again officially holiday makers. This would be more evident if you hadn't selectively cut my post in your quote.

[andrew55]

Sadly Hua Hin is no longer the place to consider far too many murders there now as with all Thai towns that grow with foreigners the crime follows..anyone who puts almost half a million pounds into a house here must be delusional or just crazy

Hope this story turns out positive but sadly it looks like it wont; like many I would be surprised if they leave with any of the 430,000 GBP

Thailand is no game and it gets very serious if you cant handle it

You know I dont usually post on messabe boards, especially where Thailand is concerned mostly because responding to silly posts are a waste of time.

However for my first (I think) post to this forum, I have a question.

You say that "Thailand is no game, and it gets very serious if you cant handle it" how would "You" have handled this diffrently?

I didn't know that you don't usually post on message boards - nice to hear from you.

Hope you don't deem my post silly.

I'm not sure whether my handling would be different than this guy's as I only know the details as presented in the article.

I would avoid conflict at risk of life (except as a keyboard warrior on a forum). I think 'handling it' often involves subtleties that are difficult for foreigners to practice. Have you noticed that if the food at a restauraunt is not up to scratch Thais rarely comment - they just smile, pay and don't return - not the case where I come from. Face saving, negotiation techniques, being aware that tradesmanship standards are not necessarily those of our countries of origin, knowing when to walk away and that sometimes things just ain't fair are a few things that I would do. Perhaps the victim already did all this in which case I would have done nothing differently and found myself in his terrible state.

Last thing - I generally avoid non-Thai parts of the Kingdom such as Phuket, Pattaya, Hua Hin and other 'civilised' areas. My experience of Thailand has been mostly rural. The cities and especially those areas with more exposure to foreigners and particularly to farang seem to be the problem. Cultural conflict in part? I don't know crime stats and am happy to be corrected - just my experience of some years as a guest in LOS.

Certainly a tragic outcome for the victim and his family. I know the 'not in Kansas anymore' thing is over-used but now seems an appropriate moment.

Certainly a tragic outcome for the victim and his family, especially with the very real possibility of no satisfaction from authorities which we could demand at 'home'.

Stay safe.

[Beetlejuice]

Appears to be a whole load of shady goings on involving a whole load of shady characters, both farangs and Thais.

Dubious property companies and dubious dealings, involving farangs of dubious character.

The guy held £400 because he believed the work wasn’t up to standard. These people move to Thailand expecting the same standards as in the West, but for a cheaper rate. They shouldn’t be here in the first place; there is no way they are able to adapt.

Why should the police bother, use their time and resources to seek revenge on behalf of people like these?

Edited February 1, 2012 by Beetlejuice