Ambush Brit Fights For Life In Hua Hin

[farangme]

Personally have never seen the attraction of trying to build a house in Thailand. Seems to many things could go wrong. Only reason I might attempt it would be due to a unique location. We went with buying a new home in a gated development built by a reputable builder. I gave the funds to my wife and let her handle everything, including working with the builder to make all the little details correct, including multiple visits to seal the roof during the first rainy season. She has worked with the contractors for two add-ons, air con install, etc. All has worked out well and all parties are happy. My opinion is its best to let the Thais work with the Thais on these types of things. I take care of these details in the west, wife takes care in TL. I usually only get involved when something doesn't add up to me and that usually ends with an explanation/acceptance of how things are done in Issan.

[TommyDee]

none of this makes sense. one minute he is a hood, drug dealer on the run, who makes peoples lives a misery in Hua hin, now he is a saint who didnt deserve what he got.. can someone please explain.. over to you AD..

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story-other.php?sid=235

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/man_on_run_in_shooting_1_267488

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/02/07/brit-drug-baron-s-luxury-life-on-run-115875-22024329/

[WarpSpeed]

none of this makes sense. one minute he is a hood, drug dealer on the run, who makes peoples lives a misery in Hua hin, now he is a saint who didnt deserve what he got.. can someone please explain.. over to you AD..

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=235

http://www.thestar.c...ooting_1_267488

http://www.mirror.co...15875-22024329/

Can't be exactly certain because it's all quite convoluted but my impression is you're mixing up cases..He's not the same guy as the British builder who you're describing is the hood, drug dealer on the run et al the way I understand it..

[TommyDee]

none of this makes sense. one minute he is a hood, drug dealer on the run, who makes peoples lives a misery in Hua hin, now he is a saint who didnt deserve what he got.. can someone please explain.. over to you AD..

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=235

http://www.thestar.c...ooting_1_267488

http://www.mirror.co...15875-22024329/

Can't be exactly certain because it's all quite convoluted but my impression is you're mixing up cases..He's not the same guy as the British builder who you're describing is the hood, drug dealer on the run et al the way I understand it..

you are right, muy mistake, it is late and i should be in bed. thanks for pointing that out

[WarpSpeed]

none of this makes sense. one minute he is a hood, drug dealer on the run, who makes peoples lives a misery in Hua hin, now he is a saint who didnt deserve what he got.. can someone please explain.. over to you AD..

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=235

http://www.thestar.c...ooting_1_267488

http://www.mirror.co...15875-22024329/

Can't be exactly certain because it's all quite convoluted but my impression is you're mixing up cases..He's not the same guy as the British builder who you're describing is the hood, drug dealer on the run et al the way I understand it..

you are right, muy mistake, it is late and i should be in bed. thanks for pointing that out

I'm right? What is it a blue moon outside? I need to be in bed too..But certainly in a different bed..

[IsaanUSA]

I am also amazed at the fact Thailand has the highest murder rate via firearms in the world. This may in part be due to the lack of information gathering in other nations, but the reality is that death by firearms is quite high.

If I were to be murdered, I would much rather be murdered by firearm then to be hacked to death with a machete, or stabbed and left to bleed to death, or beaten to death with a pipe.

Anyways I do not believe this statistic without some sort of proof.

And in regards to all the other posts, 64 million people live in Thailand. A few immigrants get killed off and suddenly 64 million people are seen as violent and vicious? Come on guys. This stuff happens all over the world, every day. I know we treat our immigrants as inferior in the US, so why would it surpise you that Thais look down on immigrants in their country? As somebody else already said, lay low, keep your voice down, stay out of politics and try to assimilate.

[Nignoy]

Do absolutely everything you can to embarrass the police. They are a goon squad, with little incentive to convict a local. Even for crimes as horrendous as this one. They need to get black eyes in the press, worldwide, someone in power will take notice, and out of loss of face, something may get done. Do not let it go. Also, we need to start publishing names of the contractors engaging in these practices. They need to be put out of business, and it needs to happen quickly. They only do this kind of nonsense, because there is little chance of getting caught, and paying a price for it, should the tiny chance of getting caught actually happen.

Are you the invisible Man?? embarrassing the authorities , can make you disappear,

[Xonax]

Very gruesome event. Need to think very hard in someone' elses country; especially if in love. Hope this man gets better and is able to resettle back to their country

I am surprised that his family who it appears already do business in Thailand did not advise him better. I built a home and the workmanship was shoddy but I negotiated a setelment price and then completed the work myself after being threatened with the local mafia. I actually live beside the builder which makes life interesting. I have never found local contractors to be up to the task and certainly know not to get angry with them. Behind the smiles lies a cesspool into which we should never consider going.

Nothing but shoddy workmanship to be found in Thailand. I find this every time I have work done on the house. Paint in different tones used on the same wall, paint and dirt everywhere, dirty handprints everywhere. We had a stainless guttering installed last year, and when the rain came, it was leaking everywhere. - Had to pay another contractor THB 15,000 to completely redo the work, as the first contractor, who were recommended by neighbours as thrustworthy, never showed up again, to fix his shoddy workmanship and just hang up the phone every time we called him.

[samsiam]

Nothing but shoddy workmanship to be found in Thailand. I find this every time I have work done on the house. Paint in different tones used on the same wall, paint and dirt everywhere, dirty handprints everywhere. We had a stainless guttering installed last year, and when the rain came, it was leaking everywhere. - Had to pay another contractor THB 15,000 to completely redo the work, as the first contractor, who were recommended by neighbours as thrustworthy, never showed up again, to fix his shoddy workmanship and just hang up the phone every time we called him.

Exactly why people withhold funds or dont pay in full.....but others state these people should be paid and then negotiate with them to return and fix the jobs....pigs fly more likely in most cases.

[spidermike007]

The more I read about Thailand the more it looks like a lawless cesspit. When I went to Phuket over ten years ago for my honeymoon I thought it would be the perfect place to retire to, and we visited several times a year. Three years ago when the tuk tuk mafia took control of the transport situation, and foreigners seemed to have no rights whatoever, we havnt been back, and and I doubt we ever will. There simply seems to be no place that could be considered safe anymore, Chaing Mai, Hua Hin, Phuket etc.

We live in Chiang Mai for 2 years and we still alive and very happy :-)

Yes, I agree. Have lived in Thailand for 6 years, and have not had issues like this one. Seems like it always concerns real estate purchases, or renovations, so buyer beware. Deal only with highly recommended realtors, developers, contractors, etc. If you did not get a very strong referral with someone who has done business with them, without a hitch, avoid them like the bubonic plague. Thailand is lawless, for the most part, but it is anything but a cesspool. Hua Hin, Samui, and Phuket have their share of problems. But like many posters stated here, you must use good judgment, and you must show respect at all times. Some very low class Thais have little regard to farengs, and they seem to think there is justification to use goombah methods to solve their problems. The police need to take charge of this, or Thailand will continue to diminish in the eyes of the world. For the time being, use great care, respect of the locals, negotiating skills, and be firm but polite.

[spidermike007]

The more I read about Thailand the more it looks like a lawless cesspit. When I went to Phuket over ten years ago for my honeymoon I thought it would be the perfect place to retire to, and we visited several times a year. Three years ago when the tuk tuk mafia took control of the transport situation, and foreigners seemed to have no rights whatoever, we havnt been back, and and I doubt we ever will. There simply seems to be no place that could be considered safe anymore, Chaing Mai, Hua Hin, Phuket etc.

We live in Chiang Mai for 2 years and we still alive and very happy :-)

I have lived on Koh Samui for seven years and even built six houses and bought two more, then turned them over to "my Thai her indoors". She (and her Family) think I am the best thing since sliced bread, despite me being a grumpy old Brit Git. Two years ago she said should we expand out her business, to which I said yep, but what is your game plan. She said I will get a job and we will save the money from that for 5 years and then we can develop it further. I also know of many Foreigners living and working on Koh Samui who are more than happy with their lot and many have Thai Families and Friends whom they value a great deal. My point - there are hundreds, if not thousands of lovely Thai people, includng those who are married to Foreigners, who are not representative of the 0.01% mafia. Just wanted to bring a positive view to balance the many negative views that have been expressed on the forum. I would also say that I am extremely sorry for those who have been victims of violence, but there again, I do not know the full story behind each case.

I could not agree more. I am also involved with a Thai, and set her family up in business. They used the capital to become the most successful people in her village. Nothing but success, and very hard work since. There are all kinds here, as there are elsewhere, and you just have to use your good judgment. Words mean nothing. It is all about action, example, and initiative.

[spidermike007]

Sadly Hua Hin is no longer the place to consider far too many murders there now as with all Thai towns that grow with foreigners the crime follows..anyone who puts almost half a million pounds into a house here must be delusional or just crazy Hope this story turns out positive but sadly it looks like it wont; like many I would be surprised if they leave with any of the 430,000 GBP Thailand is no game and it gets very serious if you cant handle it

Sadly Hua Hin is no longer the place to consider far too many murders there now as with all Thai towns that grow with foreigners the crime follows..anyone who puts almost half a million pounds into a house here must be delusional or just crazy Hope this story turns out positive but sadly it looks like it wont; like many I would be surprised if they leave with any of the 430,000 GBP Thailand is no game and it gets very serious if you cant handle it

just cancelled trip to Thailand.....

What a shame. What an alarmist you are. Big difference between a guy who lives in Thailand, and owns a very expensive home, and a tourist on vacation, don't you think? Thailand is one of the safest places I have ever been. I have lived here six years. Travel all over. Most Thais are very peaceful people, and very few would resort to violence to settle something. Yes, they can be hot tempered occasionally, but as long as you show them kindness, and consideration, you have little to fear here. I feel much more danger in Los Angeles.

[SPG]

This is off topic - but what relly bugs the sh!t out of me is that when "we farangs" go abroad we are expected to abide by every aspect of that foreign land without exception - however, when the shoe is on the other foot and "they" go to "our" countries when are expected to show tolerance ..... not just tolerance, but in some cases relinquish our nations beliefs and culture to make way for the alien..... and God forbid, if you put up any resistance then the full force of the las + every do-gooder in the land comes down on you like a ton of bricks for being "racist"......

Racism is like sexism ..... your only racist if your white complaining about non-whites ...... your only sexist if you're a man...... when prejudice or racism is done unto us (I am white, male) we are expected to appologise for being a victim of it.

So the victim in this case somehow drew it upon himself? Have you not seen the fleets of Mercedes, Beamers, and other status symbols that Thai's drive around in? Should they not practice humility too and come out in sympathy for the $10-a-day workers? Oh, I get it .... middle age white guy has nice house so he's a mug and deserves what he gets?

Don't get me wrong, some people deserve what they get, regardless of race, age, creed, or gender...... because they are obnoxious arrogant nasty sods ...... but the reality for most of us is that these Thai thugs victimise and exploit farangs in Thailand - its plain and simple racism and if it happened in reverse order in the UK or otherwise you would be publicly executed for it.

Great post corkman.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed as well as a post containing derogatory comments.

[pacovl46]

Sadly Hua Hin is no longer the place to consider far too many murders there now as with all Thai towns that grow with foreigners the crime follows..anyone who puts almost half a million pounds into a house here must be delusional or just crazy

Hope this story turns out positive but sadly it looks like it wont; like many I would be surprised if they leave with any of the 430,000 GBP

Thailand is no game and it gets very serious if you cant handle it

You know I dont usually post on messabe boards, especially where Thailand is concerned mostly because responding to silly posts are a waste of time.

However for my first (I think) post to this forum, I have a question.

You say that "Thailand is no game, and it gets very serious if you cant handle it" how would "You" have handled this diffrently?

go for them first once you got the threat e-mail?!

[Beetlejuice]

If you require any services in Thailand, the first thing is to not have an arrogant approach towards the workers or expect a yes massa response each time you dictate your terms and requirements to them.

Another point is never compare the services in Thailand with those of the West.

There are ways and means of doing things here, many unwritten allowances and rituals to be taken into account. For example if a worker says; he cannot begin work until a following week because he has to go and pick the lum yai fruit during harvest time or has to attend someone’s funeral, than that’s what you do. It`s all part of Thai culture and tradition which was followed well before farangs arrived on the scene.

Another example, if a worker or service provider offers a period of time guarantee on the work, than take that with a pinch of salt, because most of that is rollocks. But you will find that just being polite, reasonable and tolerant will move mountains with the Thai people.

Being demanding, arrogant, intolerant and a complete arse will get you nowhere in Thailand, except land you in hospital, maybe?

[Gweiloman]

So as this is the case, than why bother starting any sorts of business in Thailand and go through all the hassle?

after my first 6 months in Thailand i knew it was a waste of time and money to start a business in Thailand. if your intended market is Thais then you will be doing a lot of work for a little scratch. not to mention the problems with the police and mafia.

the only growth markets in Thailand are cellphones, motorcycles, rice, and ice, because those are the 4 things every Thai must have every day. unless you can safely and successfully break into one of these markets, then just enjoy the fresh air and spend your farang money like the rest of us.

the problem is the country attracts a lot of farangs with no money and they scratch around trying to find a baht. Thailand only wants the farangs with money here. if you dont understand that, then you have a bad time ahead of you.

I know of many countries that just don't want foreigners, regardless of their wealth.

[joboss]

Not the first attack on farangs due to crooked Thais. Remember the American Donald who was shot and parilyzed after arguing with a builder? His Thai wife hired 2 men to kill him. The police did nothing and then Abhisit became PM and this shooting was one of the crimes he wanted solved....didn't take long to solve.

To bad Abhisit is not around now. No falang will get that kind of help now. All I can say is watch you back and don't stop your motorbike for anyone. Put your head down with your helmut on and go faster. They will move. Courage is not a Thai asset unless they are in a group.

Good advice

[z12]

So as this is the case, than why bother starting any sorts of business in Thailand and go through all the hassle?

after my first 6 months in Thailand i knew it was a waste of time and money to start a business in Thailand. if your intended market is Thais then you will be doing a lot of work for a little scratch. not to mention the problems with the police and mafia.

the only growth markets in Thailand are cellphones, motorcycles, rice, and ice, because those are the 4 things every Thai must have every day. unless you can safely and successfully break into one of these markets, then just enjoy the fresh air and spend your farang money like the rest of us.

the problem is the country attracts a lot of farangs with no money and they scratch around trying to find a baht. Thailand only wants the farangs with money here. if you dont understand that, then you have a bad time ahead of you.

I know of many countries that just don't want foreigners, regardless of their wealth.

Japan comes to mind.

[Rainmon]

tip of the ice berg, business as usual in LOS, what a nightmare...

[Chopperboy]

A Thai builder of any size will already be paying the mafia for "cover". They need to do this to ensure a chance of getting paid from Thais. I have heard of figures of 25kB for a small/ medium construction company, up to 2m per month for a quarry being paid to the same person.

Most construction companies just sub out the work to immigrant worker gangs who take on individual parts of a job. Quite often they don't get paid either! Better to find your own workers and work with them to ensure the quality - just be wary of work permit issues and petty thefts.

[ALFREDO]

http://www.thaivisa....s-knife-attack/

That is a similar story from 2007 and no satisfying outcome with a killing of a small Austrian-Thai mixed boy in Koh Samui, in connection with a construction dispute.

To my knowledge the attacker-killer, was never really charged!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My opinion is its best to let the Thais work with the Thais on these types of things. I take care of these details in the west, wife takes care in TL. I usually only get involved when something doesn't add up to me and that usually ends with an explanation/acceptance of how things are done in Issan.

I too have found that's a prudent way to proceed here... assuming's one's wife or GF is up to the task of dealing with business people / contractors / etc...

The woman doesn't have to be an expert on whatever business issue is at hand, and most likely won't be. You (the guy) can serve in that role and/or do the necessary research and learn what you need to know. But what the woman needs to be able to do is clearly communicate your (the couple's) desires and expectations, and then deal with the Thais when whatever is involved is completed is a shoddy or slipshod manner, or not completed at all. And she has to be able to help settle things in an acceptable manner.

As odd as this might sound, I'd say it's a good trait to be mindful of when looking for a real spouse here (apart from all the other obvious things)... I didn't when I found mine, not knowing then it would be something important/useful for our life together. And at first, my wife was very hesitant to be assertive, even in a Thai way. But maybe I've rubbed off on her a bit over time...or maybe... now that she often reminds me we're spending "her" money, she's taking a greater interest in the outcomes. I'm perfectly fine about that!

[jerrysteve]

The Thai people that do this sort of thing are an insult to there country their very noble, kind, worldwide respected and wise King. And that is a shame; a real shame.

[xthAi76s]

^^ Thanks for the propaganda. What is a shame is that these things happen. That's all.

[maccaroni man]

I have been going to hua hin on a regular basis for the last 5 yrs, and i have to say i find it a fun place to be, i have met some very nice people and have done some good business there. I have not hired a trades man which i assume would be the same as on samui a challenge and frustrating as norm. It is IMO not just to judge HH by these few incidents and at the end of the day the Thais will continue to love the place anyway.

[xthAi76s]

1. dont withhold payment from a Thai if you are a farang. find another way to solve the dispute. once they have the money there is no other way

2. never use vulgar language or raise your voice with Thai people. but they will happily use it on u

3. if you cant follow Thai ways, dont live here because you will get f-ed up sooner or later. go home brigade eh?

1. Never renege on a business arrangement for payment anywhere -- with any race of people and especially when you are a vulnerable 'outsider' with little protections under the law -- until a new arrangement has been agreed to. Often, this will mean, having paid the full price of the contract, but then subsequently trying to recapture some of the payment (formerly or otherwise).

2. Never use vulgar language or indeed threaten Thai people or any people when dealing with business, money and men. Remember, too, that you may be more vulnerable than others here. (People have been getting killed all over the world, since the beginning of time over money, so this is especially true when dealing with money no matter the sum.)

3. If you cannot assimilate Thai style dispute resolution, and, if you plan to conduct business here in Thailand, (before throwing in the towel and leaving the country) try to appoint someone (often a Thai) who is better suited to the accepted business and interpersonal communication styles here.

4. If you receive a threat from a Thai person or group, decide quickly and carefully if you are willing to risk your safety and/or health of your business(es) in order to level a threat in kind against the locals.

5. Understand and accept that even if you conduct yourself perfectly here in Thailand, a natural cosmic course of the world will still have you cheated and abused during some part of your professional career. Such is life for many, and there is not likely to be anything you can do about it. Some battles (hopefully small ones) you will not win. However, keep your eyes on the larger war to be won.

[ItDontMeanAThing]

1. dont withhold payment from a Thai if you are a farang. find another way to solve the dispute. once they have the money there is no other way

...

1. Never renege on a business arrangement for payment anywhere -- with any race of people and especially when you are a vulnerable 'outsider' with little protections under the law -- until a new arrangement has been agreed to.

...

Both are well written posts, I'm keeping copies to refer to before any sort of business dealings more complicated than renting a room for the night or buying a meal. I researched several less developed nations before retiring. One bit of advice repeated by expats in every country was was never put more money into something than you can walk away from while smiling, even if it's a fake smile. This advice was usually backed up by horror stories of what happened to those who didn't walk away. It's tragic.

[sydneyjed]

I think looking back and seeing the Thai real estate developer where CCTV footage of the shooting was posted on here, just about reinforces and reminds us that it is indeed not just farangs who bear the brunt of business disputes where someone may meet a tragic end..in that case the victim was a woman!

[chops]

I would never invest money in Thailand. I would also never do business with anybody in Thailand.

You do so all at your own risk. It is a lawless place. You are never safe.

Thailand is a place for broke farang to stretch their money. If you had money, why not move to a country that has no corruption problems like Singapore?