Government's Water Discharges Causes Ayutthaya To Flood: Thai Agriculture Ministry

[sultan]

Geeeezzz people give them a break for gods sake.

It's funny how people think that Governments should become magicians when it comes to nature. How could anyone have possibly predicted the latest floods and prepare for that?

It's like saying that Alberta Canada should prepare for a volcanic eruption for god sakes. Yes maybe it could happen but do you think they should start actually preparing for one?

Let's not forget the Big Guy here in Thailand when he invented a machine that could create rain and helped Australia with its drought. There are some smart people involved here don't kid your self. Also did they not already say that they are working with some countries that have exp. with floods to get advice etc?

I'm not sure what half of you people think they should do? Or maybe you have a better laid plan?

Ok a country who was not prone to mass flooding incurred it after years and years of years being populated and now they are dealing with it the best they can I think.

Scientists, Engineers, Governments etc. have all made progress in one way or another and mostly due to trial and error.

Yes maybe the people could have been warned but then again maybe they were. Do you know for sure?

The only people I saw during the mass floods really complaining heavily were the farangs. Us. Most Thai's I saw were laughing and going about their business in their make shift boats etc and still enjoying their life. Yes for sure the ones that suffered the most (fatalities, crops) etc. were suffering but they dealt with it.

After it was over they just wanted compensation for their loss but did not blame anyone for an act of nature.

I for one am glad that the government is trying to deal with preventive maintenance.

notthenation might've paid you for that if you hadn't published it already. It is so full of nonsense, I just don't know where to begin

Unlike an erupting volcano, this water built up in dams to volatile levels, months before the media got onto this. Despite mass flooding in the central regions, it became news to the world only when bangkok was threatened

This happens every year - it is a balancing act and a risky but necessary strategy given the current (obsolete and ill-maintained) irrigation and drainage systems.

Yes - I know for sure that people were not warned or helped - remove you head from the sand please.

If you only saw farangs complaining then you were not seeing clearly. I can't be bothered to react to your drivel about thais laughing and getting on with it other than to acknowledge that ignorance really is bliss - enjoy every minute sir, I for one, am laughing at you every step of the way - so thanks very much for the boost

All the best

[webfact]

PM denies Ayutthaya flood is water mismanagement

BANGKOK, Feb 9 -- Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has rejected possible criticism that the new flooding in Ayutthaya's Sena district was caused by water mismanagement, but ordered the province’s governor to extend assistance to residents who are affected by the overflowing Chao Phraya River.

Ms Yingluck said that the incident was caused by the normal discharge of water from the Bhumibol and Sirikit dams in Tak and Uttaradit respectively to prevent possible flooding later in the rainy season.

She said that formerly the dams maintained a minimum water storage level at 60 per cent of their capacities, but water storage levels of both dams were now expected to be reduced to 45 per cent of their storage capacity in preparation for the new rainy season.

The premier said that she has ordered the Ayutthaya governor to help the flood victims in the district, but said that all data on the water discharged should be collected for the Ministry of Agriculture and the Royal Irrigation Department for planning.

The volume of water released from the dams may be reduced to give more time to let the floodwater drain, she said, asserting that the flood was not the result of water mismanagement.

The prime minister said that Ayutthaya is situated at a lower elevation (than upriver locations) and the incident should be taken into consideration regarding future actions on the water management plan.

The current experience could be used to adjust the plan, she said, noting that the flood prevention measures must be improved. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-02-09

[KKvampire]

Geeeezzz people give them a break for gods sake.

It's funny how people think that Governments should become magicians when it comes to nature. How could anyone have possibly predicted the latest floods and prepare for that?

It's like saying that Alberta Canada should prepare for a volcanic eruption for god sakes. Yes maybe it could happen but do you think they should start actually preparing for one?

Let's not forget the Big Guy here in Thailand when he invented a machine that could create rain and helped Australia with its drought. There are some smart people involved here don't kid your self. Also did they not already say that they are working with some countries that have exp. with floods to get advice etc?

I'm not sure what half of you people think they should do? Or maybe you have a better laid plan?

Ok a country who was not prone to mass flooding incurred it after years and years of years being populated and now they are dealing with it the best they can I think.

Scientists, Engineers, Governments etc. have all made progress in one way or another and mostly due to trial and error.

Yes maybe the people could have been warned but then again maybe they were. Do you know for sure?

The only people I saw during the mass floods really complaining heavily were the farangs. Us. Most Thai's I saw were laughing and going about their business in their make shift boats etc and still enjoying their life. Yes for sure the ones that suffered the most (fatalities, crops) etc. were suffering but they dealt with it.

After it was over they just wanted compensation for their loss but did not blame anyone for an act of nature.

I for one am glad that the government is trying to deal with preventive maintenance.

Wow.where have you been?so all the flooding last year had nothing to do with the management of the disaster? I think youneed to do some research. "Thais going about their business laughing "?what planet were you on?

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[Soutpeel]

It really isn't rocket science.

And even if it is rocket science, Thailand has a scientist who used to work for NASA, so they should be able to figure it out..

[kirk0233]

The only people I saw during the mass floods really complaining heavily were the farangs. Us. Most Thai's I saw were laughing and going about their business in their make shift boats etc and still enjoying their life. Yes for sure the ones that suffered the most (fatalities, crops) etc. were suffering but they dealt with it.

You write as if the Thai are merry idiots that laugh when their homes and jobs are destroyed by an incompetent government. I can assure you my Thai relatives were not laughing when they had to move from Nonthaburi to Chonburi for two months. The expense of renting a condo was not funny nor loss of wages for two months. They did joke that if the government says it will not flood it is time to leave.

[whybother]

PM denies Ayutthaya flood is water mismanagement

So, it was deliberate?

[slapout]

After reading the PM's response to the 'excessive discharge of water' (my words), I can assume she has a new speech/interview writter. She denies that 'mismangament' caused flooding, but says "flood prevention measures must be improved" and "the plan" can be adjusted from this experience.

Having experienced the result of excessive water discharge here in CM a couple of times (floods) big time, at least those who opened the gates had the common sense/coursity to disappear and not thow up a complete crock of bs. It might help to have accurate methods/devices for measurement of water flow at crital points in the system. What is scarey is this press release comes from the leader of the pack.

[Crossy]

PM denies Ayutthaya flood is water mismanagement

So, it was deliberate?

Beat me to it

[ResX]

PM denies Ayutthaya flood is water mismanagement

So, it was deliberate?

Pitty on her. She really beleives the flood has nothing to do with dams releases. She is honest. I know this kind of problem since I have seen many times in the past. The only thing is that she was wrong.

The river flow downstream ti dams= natural stream flow + dams regulated discharges + rainfall + runoff

[Scott]

One inflammatory post has been removed.

Please restrict your comments to the content of the posts and refrain from making personal remarks about the poster.

[Credo]

They need to release the water. But this 'flooding' seems like a strong over-reaction. How many households are flooded? How many businesses closed? How extensive is the damage?

I was caught in a sudden downpour the other day, and it sounds like the water I drove through was about the same as this 'flood'. It was isolated flooding and several kilometers away it was dry. Part of the problem is the panic that I felt. The big floods left me very wary of any water.

I hope the damage was minimal and further incidents can be averted.

[yumidesign]

Should we assume the residents were told of this event and its potential repercussions BEFORE it happened, so that they could prepare?

Wasn't someone saying on here earlier today how well the government had managed the floods?

the prime minister has taken change of the water management said the recent headline. there you have it

[ResX]

They need to release the water. But this 'flooding' seems like a strong over-reaction. How many households are flooded? How many businesses closed? How extensive is the damage?

I was caught in a sudden downpour the other day, and it sounds like the water I drove through was about the same as this 'flood'. It was isolated flooding and several kilometers away it was dry. Part of the problem is the panic that I felt. The big floods left me very wary of any water.

I hope the damage was minimal and further incidents can be averted.

As long as they think that they don't know how worse the future flood is going to be you are going to see this kind of probably trial and error mitigation measure. Too bad if the water management authorities have yet to know what size of flood in future they are going to deal with. The rule is that if they cannot define the flood they are going to deal with, they cannot be wrong. The only problem is they cannot be right either.

They have to know without any doubt the maximum size of floods they want to deal with. Comprehensive flood control procedure starts from there on.

[hellodolly]

The Bumiphon Dam is already full. (85%), they open the Dam because some areas have no water. To control the water down the Mae Ping River is the top of mismanagement. Areas in need of water don't have enough, Ayutthaya has too much.

Ignorancy of the Government Managers and their fungoid growing agencies are the biggest danger this year. The staff at Bumiphon Dam knows very well what to do, but they are to weak for the revolution of the facts (Thai sickness). Last year the Dam was full the 12. August (I swear), and in September two typhoons came, visible in the Internet.

The ignorant and/or criminal responsiblesofthe (in)compentent Ministry gave orders not to open the Dam.

Natural cataclysm happens, but no need to top them by human irgnorance/criminality.

Here in Chiang Mai they knew they were going to cause flooding so they gave a thee day warning.

The idea of opening it earlier so as to prevent flooding was asking to munch of them.

It completely escapes me why the government wants to keep dams full until the rainy season hits.

[lungmi]

The Bumiphon Dam is already full. (85%), they open the Dam because some areas have no water. To control the water down the Mae Ping River is the top of mismanagement. Areas in need of water don't have enough, Ayutthaya has too much.

Ignorancy of the Government Managers and their fungoid growing agencies are the biggest danger this year. The staff at Bumiphon Dam knows very well what to do, but they are to weak for the revolution of the facts (Thai sickness). Last year the Dam was full the 12. August (I swear), and in September two typhoons came, visible in the Internet.

The ignorant and/or criminal responsiblesofthe (in)compentent Ministry gave orders not to open the Dam.

Natural cataclysm happens, but no need to top them by human irgnorance/criminality.

Here in Chiang Mai they knew they were going to cause flooding so they gave a thee day warning.

The idea of opening it earlier so as to prevent flooding was asking to munch of them.

It completely escapes me why the government wants to keep dams full until the rainy season hits.

It has something to do with the rice-crop populist policies. No one understands really, the planners are the first who don't understand themselves.

[Gone]

Geeeezzz people give them a break for gods sake.

I won't. Now they are panic-releasing water from the reservoirs and are flooding exactly the same area where they want to build their 300km flood wall at the tremendous speed of 3 km per day. At 10 hours daylight this means 10 metres every minute. And Yingluck will travel upcountry to tell the people to plant little trees and build little dams.

This government is nothing but a mass assembly of incompetence.

Then you go and straiten it all out for them.

Why should I? I didn't run for PM in this country, Yingluck did. But my family and I were on the receiving end of her incompetence, and, as it looks, will be again this rainy season. So I am fully entitled to call a spade a spade.

And if you foresee this coming again in rainy season you are also entitled to move to higher ground right?

[otherstuff1957]

It is the type of BS that the Government puts out more lies, who can believe them.

This was posted today at around 9 A.M.;

Posted Today, 09:00

Chao Phraya River overflows, inundating Ayutthaya's Sena District, officials say unseasonal rain caused high water level, not water discharged from dams /MCOT

and at 16:08 this afternoon MCOT posted this so I guess the lies are stil comming and no-one takes responsibilty.

Here's this month's rainfall from the Thai Met Dept:

This map shows the departure from normal:

It does show about 5cm of rain above average, most of which will drain out the Tha Chin River, not the Chao Phraya. It just so happens that the Sena district in Ayutthaya is to the west, near the Tha Chin rather than the Chao Phraya.

In this case, the officials may be right, it is unseasonable rain, not dam discharge causing this flood.

[wxyz]

"However, when you are up to your ass in GRENN MAMBAs, it is difficult to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp."

Edited February 9, 2012 by wxyz

[wxyz]

PM clone flood management, at its FINEST.

Edited February 9, 2012 by wxyz

[Lite Beer]

PM: Flood in Ayutthaya result of water release from dams

PHRA NAKHON SI AYUTTHAYA, 9 February 2012 (NNT) - Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has indicated that the current flooding in Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya province is a result of the water release from major dams in preparation for the upcoming rainy season.

Ms Yingluck said since the dams were recently used to retain water from monsoon rains, the water must now be released so that the dams can take up more water during the rainy season this year. The premier has assigned provincial governors to take care of the local residents who are being affected by the water discharge.

Meanwhile, Agriculture and Cooperatives Minister Theera Wongsamut has instructed the Royal Irrigation Department to inspect damages, give assistance, and prepare for the rehabilitation process. He expects the water to subside and dry out in 5-10 days.

The water level in the Noi River in Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya province has been increasing continuously. Locals said normally February is the drought season and sometimes people can even walk across the river; however, the water this year has overflowed the river banks and flooded nearby houses. They said they were unprepared, given the recent flood had only ended two months ago.

Farmers are reluctant to continue growing their crops, fearing that if the officials decide to release more water from the Chao Phraya Dam in Chai Nat province, their farmland would be submerged.

-- NNT 2012-02-09

[wxyz]

PM clone "PM denies Ayutthaya flood is water mismanagement"

That's her story and she's sticking to it. That's the mr T talking.

Edited February 9, 2012 by wxyz

[whybother]

"Preparation for rainy season"

That's so they can get used to the flooding.

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[ResX]

It is the type of BS that the Government puts out more lies, who can believe them.

This was posted today at around 9 A.M.;

Posted Today, 09:00

Chao Phraya River overflows, inundating Ayutthaya's Sena District, officials say unseasonal rain caused high water level, not water discharged from dams /MCOT

and at 16:08 this afternoon MCOT posted this so I guess the lies are stil comming and no-one takes responsibilty.

Here's this month's rainfall from the Thai Met Dept:

This map shows the departure from normal:

It does show about 5cm of rain above average, most of which will drain out the Tha Chin River, not the Chao Phraya. It just so happens that the Sena district in Ayutthaya is to the west, near the Tha Chin rather than the Chao Phraya.

In this case, the officials may be right, it is unseasonable rain, not dam discharge causing this flood.

Average rainfall for Bhumibol catchment is roughly about 9billion cubic meters per 12 months (286m3/s). What happens if they opt to release 7billion cubic meter of water in 3 months from Bhumibol? Yes, the average discharge will be 900m3/s, or more than 3 folds higher than average! In our country, normally 4 folds discharge above the average is not enough to start floods for most of our rivers. I don't know about Thailand. But then the river downstream to the dam has lost its natural retention capacity. The dam discharge has used it. The water level can be very close to its banks. What happens when its rain? Any average rainfall could mean at least 2 folds higher than average flow. If you add dam water release and average rainfall what do you get? It is 3+2 =5 folds above average. I'm almost certain that some areas down stream will be inundated.

Taking the rainfall alone it was unlikely Ayuthia would be flooded. Taking the dam water release alone you may find similar outcome. But when you add up together what will you get? Yes. River flow is 5fold higher than average. Just see water level for any river close to you. Just imagine if the level increases by 4 folds. Do you think it may not reach the top of the river banks?

FYI, During BKK flooding last year river discharge near river mouth was said to be 4,700m3/s. Average flow of the Chao Pharaya is about 2,200m3/s. It was only three folds higher than the average. I think you know better how much damage 3 folds higher than average flow could inflict.

[David48]

she (Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra) said, asserting that the flood was not the result of water mismanagement.

So by the defination of the use of the double negative in English ... asserting that the flood was the result of water management

I like the Thais very much ... but the term 'Thai Planning' is an oxymoron.

[Marvo]

So the question is... How long does the water released up north take to get to Ayudhya? If the 48 hour forecast says it's going to rain in Ayudhya, is that too late to reduce the flow from the dams destined to arrive in Ayudhya coinciding with the rain?

[ResX]

So the question is... How long does the water released up north take to get to Ayudhya? If the 48 hour forecast says it's going to rain in Ayudhya, is that too late to reduce the flow from the dams destined to arrive in Ayudhya coinciding with the rain?

Short term weather forecast for about 3 days lead time has greater than 80% reliability to predict rainfall scenario. Even 10 days lead time forecast using an outdated forecasting system can score 60% reliability. This was said by one of the ministers. The important question have they tried to do it this way? This is not the only way to deal with discharge coordination problem such as this one.

[backtonormal]

Should we assume the residents were told of this event and its potential repercussions BEFORE it happened, so that they could prepare?

Wasn't someone saying on here earlier today how well the government had managed the floods?

In the fullness of the time the opinion of the people (well the Thais that I speak to) believe the floods were stage managed by those that cant accept the Peauthai . Normally we would coup who we dont like but thaksins got a few nuts in the vice so they had to have an alternative. 5 agencies running the flood disaster, only have to buy 1 or 2 to hold the job up. As usual i will get slated but then again its hard to give full explanations without fear of handcuffs. Roll on freedom of speech

[rubl]

In the fullness of the time the opinion of the people (well the Thais that I speak to) believe the floods were stage managed by those that cant accept the Peauthai . Normally we would coup who we dont like but thaksins got a few nuts in the vice so they had to have an alternative. 5 agencies running the flood disaster, only have to buy 1 or 2 to hold the job up. As usual i will get slated but then again its hard to give full explanations without fear of handcuffs. Roll on freedom of speech

Who allowed the dams to be too full before the rainy season. This was planned well in advance because certain people new they would lose the election. If you believe it was the PT fault you should really doubt yourself. PT drowns them and in rides ......... to save them. People dont fall for that no more

Clearly those certain people had a better weather forcasting system than the Thai government.

Anyway who remembers the name of the minister who stepped forward and admitted to be responsable for not releasing water from some dams?

Seems some propaganda machine is in full swing to blame anyone but the current government on flood mis-management

[whybother]

Should we assume the residents were told of this event and its potential repercussions BEFORE it happened, so that they could prepare?

Wasn't someone saying on here earlier today how well the government had managed the floods?

In the fullness of the time the opinion of the people (well the Thais that I speak to) believe the floods were stage managed by those that cant accept the Peauthai . Normally we would coup who we dont like but thaksins got a few nuts in the vice so they had to have an alternative. 5 agencies running the flood disaster, only have to buy 1 or 2 to hold the job up. As usual i will get slated but then again its hard to give full explanations without fear of handcuffs. Roll on freedom of speech

The causes of the last floods has been done to death. What we ate discussing now is a new flood.

The PM (who is in charge of flood management) has clearly managed to cause this flood.

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[KRS1]

Geeeezzz people give them a break for gods sake.

It's funny how people think that Governments should become magicians when it comes to nature. How could anyone have possibly predicted the latest floods and prepare for that?

It's like saying that Alberta Canada should prepare for a volcanic eruption for god sakes. Yes maybe it could happen but do you think they should start actually preparing for one?

Let's not forget the Big Guy here in Thailand when he invented a machine that could create rain and helped Australia with its drought. There are some smart people involved here don't kid your self. Also did they not already say that they are working with some countries that have exp. with floods to get advice etc?

I'm not sure what half of you people think they should do? Or maybe you have a better laid plan?

Ok a country who was not prone to mass flooding incurred it after years and years of years being populated and now they are dealing with it the best they can I think.

Scientists, Engineers, Governments etc. have all made progress in one way or another and mostly due to trial and error.

Yes maybe the people could have been warned but then again maybe they were. Do you know for sure?

The only people I saw during the mass floods really complaining heavily were the farangs. Us. Most Thai's I saw were laughing and going about their business in their make shift boats etc and still enjoying their life. Yes for sure the ones that suffered the most (fatalities, crops) etc. were suffering but they dealt with it.

After it was over they just wanted compensation for their loss but did not blame anyone for an act of nature.

I for one am glad that the government is trying to deal with preventive maintenance.

+1

At least they are trying

They are not trying. Instead they are putting unqualified comrades in positions of power instead to keep things under their own control.

All they want to be able to do is call the shots how they see it fit.