Thai Culture

[thequietman]

cul·ture

   /ˈkʌltʃər/ Show Spelled [kuhl-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.

noun

1.

the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.

2.

that which is excellent in the arts, manners, etc.

3.

a particular form or stage of civilization, as that of a certain nation or period: Greek culture.

4.

development or improvement of the mind by education or training

It has bothered me on a number of occasions when tv members put a lot of the thai idioscyncracies down to plain cultural differences. bad manners, greed at any price (even taking a life), total disregard for the safety and welfare of others either by driving habits or a total indifference to what is the safest and best thing to do for all.

culture is defined as excellence in manners and i see very little of that here in los. it is described as a quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellence in manners and scholarly pursuits. the no fail policy in schools and universities here discounts that immediately.

in short, do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on tv. why can't we just call it as it is ?

your thoughts please.

[Cobalt60]

Do you really think the reply ' its the same else where and you can always leave' adds anything to the point being discussed?

[rijb]

It's interesting that you left off 5 & 6...

5.

the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particularsocial, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.

6.

Anthropology . the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

Edited February 13, 2012 by rijb

[sysardman]

Do you really think the reply ' its the same else where and you can always leave' adds anything to the point being discussed?

Yep

[Ulysses G.]

It's interesting that you left off 5 & 6...

5.

the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particularsocial, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.

6.

Anthropology . the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

He sure did.

[sysardman]

It's interesting that you left off 5 & 6...

5.

the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particularsocial, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.

6.

Anthropology . the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

He sure did.

Who did? - don't you guys know how to use quotes!!!

[necronx99]

You're problem is that you have cherry picked a definition of "culture" to support your contention and you have picked the wrong one.

A Thai person being "cultured" has nothing to do with Thai "culture" in the context you are supposing.

If you want to rerphrase your question as a comparision of generic Asian or Thai values, ethics and social mores versus Judeo-Christian values it might have some merit.

Little relevance to how you will get treated on any given occasion, but still.

That will be 2 cents please.

Edited February 14, 2012 by necronx99

[bendix]

Do you really think the reply ' its the same else where and you can always leave' adds anything to the point being discussed?

In this case yes, because the OP is making a massive (anti) intellectual leap by portraying individual behaviours which exist in some people who happen to have a Thai passport as being intrinsic parts of Thai culture.

It's completely bogus, and generated by more tedious resentment by boorish farangs who are not happy here.

Every single thing he lists that he encounters here every day can be seen in the west, but he doesn't seem keen to pursue the logical consequence of his argument that perhaps it's part of modern culture, and has no ethno-centric root. And why? Because it's tinged with racism and a general state of misery with being in Thailand.

[Berkshire]

Do you really think the reply ' its the same else where and you can always leave' adds anything to the point being discussed?

In this case yes, because the OP is making a massive (anti) intellectual leap by portraying individual behaviours which exist in some people who happen to have a Thai passport as being intrinsic parts of Thai culture.

It's completely bogus, and generated by more tedious resentment by boorish farangs who are not happy here.

Every single thing he lists that he encounters here every day can be seen in the west, but he doesn't seem keen to pursue the logical consequence of his argument that perhaps it's part of modern culture, and has no ethno-centric root. And why? Because it's tinged with racism and a general state of misery with being in Thailand.

I could not have said it any better. Well done yet again, Mr. Bendix.

[StreetCowboy]

There have been 12 replies to this thread when I write this.

1 thread offered some constructive criticism of the OP, and suggested two additional meanings of culture that could be considered.

Five were responses to other comments, that did not particularly add to the discussion, nor detract from it.

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture. I'm assuming, from the language used, that those four were from Western posters. What is it about Westerners that makes them deliberately argumentative and so prone to jump to conclusions which are opposite to the meaning of what someone says?

Is it from watching too many court-room dramas?

Straying back on topic, rather than bickering for the sake of bickering, some posters have suggested that Thais have a much more hierarchical sense of politeness than Westerners (by this I mean people of Western European cultural descent, whether they live in the UK, France, USA or elsewhere). They are polite to those who could give them benefit, or who are higher up in the hierarchy, and less so to those below. When dealing with strangers, or people they cannot directly relate to (e.g. in a car, especially behind a tinted window) that hierarchy and politeness breaks down.

Personally, I think that could be a product of a more feudal society, compared to an urban society, where we have been surrounded by strangers with whom we live and work; which in turn is why people who live in the villages, where everyone knows everyone else's position in the hierarchy, appear to get on better.

SC

[soundman]

Inflammatory posts have been removed form view.

Please refrain from personal attacks and posting in an antagonistic manner.

[Kilgore Trout]

There have been 12 replies to this thread when I write this.

1 thread offered some constructive criticism of the OP, and suggested two additional meanings of culture that could be considered.

Five were responses to other comments, that did not particularly add to the discussion, nor detract from it.

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture. I'm assuming, from the language used, that those four were from Western posters. What is it about Westerners that makes them deliberately argumentative and so prone to jump to conclusions which are opposite to the meaning of what someone says?

Is it from watching too many court-room dramas?

Straying back on topic, rather than bickering for the sake of bickering, some posters have suggested that Thais have a much more hierarchical sense of politeness than Westerners (by this I mean people of Western European cultural descent, whether they live in the UK, France, USA or elsewhere). They are polite to those who could give them benefit, or who are higher up in the hierarchy, and less so to those below. When dealing with strangers, or people they cannot directly relate to (e.g. in a car, especially behind a tinted window) that hierarchy and politeness breaks down.

Personally, I think that could be a product of a more feudal society, compared to an urban society, where we have been surrounded by strangers with whom we live and work; which in turn is why people who live in the villages, where everyone knows everyone else's position in the hierarchy, appear to get on better.

SC

I think you make some good points; I think the op is correct in that complaints regarding Thai behavior are often defended by Thais (and sometimes Thai apologists) by saying that these traits are part of Thai culture and are therefore acceptable.

[bendix]

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture.

No he wasn't. He was deliberatly talking about what he sees as bad behaviour in Thais as being part of or not part of Thai culture.

Had he done as you suggested, it would be an interesting debate - is binge drinking and football hooliganism amongst young English men, for example, inextricably linked to English culture? Is a sense of coldness and intellectual austerity intrinsically linked to Scandinavian culture? Is operating scams linked to Nigerian culture?

By focussing solely on some negative personality traits by some Thai people (personality traits that are increasingly common across EVERY country in 2012) as part of something innately Thai, he is revealing his true colours.

[thequietman]

Do you really think the reply ' its the same else where and you can always leave' adds anything to the point being discussed?

In this case yes, because the OP is making a massive (anti) intellectual leap by portraying individual behaviours which exist in some people who happen to have a Thai passport as being intrinsic parts of Thai culture.

It's completely bogus, and generated by more tedious resentment by boorish farangs who are not happy here.

Every single thing he lists that he encounters here every day can be seen in the west, but he doesn't seem keen to pursue the logical consequence of his argument that perhaps it's part of modern culture, and has no ethno-centric root. And why? Because it's tinged with racism and a general state of misery with being in Thailand.

hi, thank you for your response, it is appreciated. however please note, i am not trying to thaibash, i am currently living in thailand and this is the thaivisa forum after all. the only examples of apologists i have encountered have been on here. hence i only use the thai person as an example. the post isnt about thais persay, it points to the fact, that many people label rudeness and inconsideration as a cultural trait. i disagree.

thanks.

[thequietman]

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture.

No he wasn't. He was deliberatly talking about what he sees as bad behaviour in Thais as being part of or not part of Thai culture.

Had he done as you suggested, it would be an interesting debate - is binge drinking and football hooliganism amongst young English men, for example, inextricably linked to English culture? Is a sense of coldness and intellectual austerity intrinsically linked to Scandinavian culture? Is operating scams linked to Nigerian culture?

By focussing solely on some negative personality traits by some Thai people (personality traits that are increasingly common across EVERY country in 2012) as part of something innately Thai, he is revealing his true colours.

not true sir. it is a generalisation. i am trying to make a point about apologists and their need to defend any negative situation or total disregard for others as a cultural trait. i only use thailand as an example as i live here, have experienced it first hand and please remember this is the thaivisa forum. if you would like to give a response as regards all nationalitiies and the apologists that reside within their borders, then i welcome it.

thanks.

[StreetCowboy]

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture.

No he wasn't. He was deliberatly talking about what he sees as bad behaviour in Thais as being part of or not part of Thai culture.

Had he done as you suggested, it would be an interesting debate - is binge drinking and football hooliganism amongst young English men, for example, inextricably linked to English culture? Is a sense of coldness and intellectual austerity intrinsically linked to Scandinavian culture? Is operating scams linked to Nigerian culture?

By focussing solely on some negative personality traits by some Thai people (personality traits that are increasingly common across EVERY country in 2012) as part of something innately Thai, he is revealing his true colours.

I thought his question was:

"in short, do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on tv. why can't we just call it as it is ?"

[bendix]

Do you really think the reply ' its the same else where and you can always leave' adds anything to the point being discussed?

In this case yes, because the OP is making a massive (anti) intellectual leap by portraying individual behaviours which exist in some people who happen to have a Thai passport as being intrinsic parts of Thai culture.

It's completely bogus, and generated by more tedious resentment by boorish farangs who are not happy here.

Every single thing he lists that he encounters here every day can be seen in the west, but he doesn't seem keen to pursue the logical consequence of his argument that perhaps it's part of modern culture, and has no ethno-centric root. And why? Because it's tinged with racism and a general state of misery with being in Thailand.

the post isnt about thais persay, it points to the fact, that many people label rudeness and inconsideration as a cultural trait. i disagree.

thanks.

Let me get this right. You are saying your post is not about 'thais persay' [sic] and yet your post contains the following sentences:

It has bothered me on a number of occasions when tv members put a lot of the thai idioscyncracies down to plain cultural differences. bad manners, greed at any price (even taking a life), total disregard for the safety and welfare of others either by driving habits or a total indifference to what is the safest and best thing to do for all.

culture is defined as excellence in manners and i see very little of that here in los. it is described as a quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellence in manners and scholarly pursuits. the no fail policy in schools and universities here discounts that immediately.

in short, do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on tv. why can't we just call it as it is ?

If you're not talking about thais persay, I'd be interested to know who you are talking about. Please enlighten me.

[Ulysses G.]

You're problem is that you have cherry picked a definition of "culture" to support your contention and you have picked the wrong one.

I concur. The question is loaded.

[sysardman]

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture.

No he wasn't. He was deliberatly talking about what he sees as bad behaviour in Thais as being part of or not part of Thai culture.

Had he done as you suggested, it would be an interesting debate - is binge drinking and football hooliganism amongst young English men, for example, inextricably linked to English culture? Is a sense of coldness and intellectual austerity intrinsically linked to Scandinavian culture? Is operating scams linked to Nigerian culture?

By focussing solely on some negative personality traits by some Thai people (personality traits that are increasingly common across EVERY country in 2012) as part of something innately Thai, he is revealing his true colours.

I thought his question was:

"in short, do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on tv. why can't we just call it as it is ?"

I think the real question is how much of this observed Thai bad behaviour is actually down to western influence? that is what we should apologise for. Vanity, greed etc is all there when you watch adverts on Thai TV which are mostly adapted from western ads selling western products - beautiful hair, beautiful skin, fast car, latest phone, latest computer.

The OP says he hasn't seen good manners and politeness, well he obviously doesn't live among Thais, I do and I see people wai to each other, smile and say hello to each other, children having respect for their parents. A different picture emerges when I walk around and encounter other farang who completely ignore you when they pass by and look away if you try to smile and try to say hello (paranoid or what?).

[Berkshire]

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture.

No he wasn't. He was deliberatly talking about what he sees as bad behaviour in Thais as being part of or not part of Thai culture.

Had he done as you suggested, it would be an interesting debate - is binge drinking and football hooliganism amongst young English men, for example, inextricably linked to English culture? Is a sense of coldness and intellectual austerity intrinsically linked to Scandinavian culture? Is operating scams linked to Nigerian culture?

By focussing solely on some negative personality traits by some Thai people (personality traits that are increasingly common across EVERY country in 2012) as part of something innately Thai, he is revealing his true colours.

not true sir. it is a generalisation. i am trying to make a point about apologists and their need to defend any negative situation or total disregard for others as a cultural trait. i only use thailand as an example as i live here, have experienced it first hand and please remember this is the thaivisa forum. if you would like to give a response as regards all nationalitiies and the apologists that reside within their borders, then i welcome it.

thanks.

Why do you continually choose to dwell upon the negative when discussing Thailand? Bendix makes an absolutely valid point when bringing up other nationalities, which is that you can cherry-pick the negative aspects of any society. Bad behavior by a small minority is just that--bad behavior by a small minority. It's not a Thai thing...or an English thing...or a Nigerian thing. I'd never use culture as an excuse for bad behavior and it seems that it's usually the Thai-bashers who do that.

But I notice you'd never bring up the positive aspects of the Thai culture to discuss. I tend to think that you don't believe there are any positive aspects of the Thai culture, correct? If you can answer that without the usual sarcasm, I'd be really impressed.

[StreetCowboy]

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture.

No he wasn't. He was deliberatly talking about what he sees as bad behaviour in Thais as being part of or not part of Thai culture.

Had he done as you suggested, it would be an interesting debate - is binge drinking and football hooliganism amongst young English men, for example, inextricably linked to English culture? Is a sense of coldness and intellectual austerity intrinsically linked to Scandinavian culture? Is operating scams linked to Nigerian culture?

By focussing solely on some negative personality traits by some Thai people (personality traits that are increasingly common across EVERY country in 2012) as part of something innately Thai, he is revealing his true colours.

I thought his question was:

"in short, do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on tv. why can't we just call it as it is ?"

I think the real question is how much of this observed Thai bad behaviour is actually down to western influence? that is what we should apologise for. Vanity, greed etc is all there when you watch adverts on Thai TV which are mostly adapted from western ads selling western products - beautiful hair, beautiful skin, fast car, latest phone, latest computer.

The OP says he hasn't seen good manners and politeness, well he obviously doesn't live among Thais, I do and I see people wai to each other, smile and say hello to each other, children having respect for their parents. A different picture emerges when I walk around and encounter other farang who completely ignore you when they pass by and look away if you try to smile and try to say hello (paranoid or what?).

So are you saying that vanity and greed are Western ideas that the Thais have imported?

I put it to you that the Thais have imported the technology (TV, advertising) and applied their own values; the Singha beer advert that I recall, for example, makes a big show of the "Thainess" of their beer, and beer as a link to your cultural heritage. Possibly more relevant to Germans than Thais, but nevertheless, an advert riddled with cultural specificity, and with the implied message "Drink Singha to be Thai - wherever you are". A good advert, I thought, but not sure how effective it would be with Thai viewers. However, the main protagonist is a Thai aspirational idol - light-skinned, handsome, drives an expensive car, respected by poor blokes while hiking in the hills, in touch with his culture, successful overseas and a match for the farang at their own game and homesick.

SC

[bendix]

I'm not sure I agree with sysard when he tries to suggest that greed etc are western values imported into Thailand. Greed, avarice, selfishness etc are innately HUMAN characteristics which have been part of human life since the year dot - it doesn't matter what cultural attributes your nation or race has, individual human characterstics will always pervade.

The traditional British cultural attribute is politeness, orderly queueing, a certain sang froid or stiff upper lip, yet the pervasive behaviour of the average Brit in 2012 is nothing like that. It is the class of individualism v culture.

I dont profess to be an expert on Thai culture, but I would imagine most people would think it is centred around things like grace, gentility, respect for elders, family, serenity etc. Again, modern Thai individuals are not universally like that also.

Which raises the question of why? I would suggest it's because of the rise of the individual at the expense of the collective. We're all important now. We all want everything because, in the words of the advert 'Because we deserve it'.

Consumerism, relative affluence, our gradual progression up the Maslow hierarchy of needs pyramid. These are the things which have created a range of human behaviours which have everthing to do with being human and nothing to do with being Thai, English, German or from Bongobongo tribe in the Lesotho jungle.

[StreetCowboy]

I'm not sure I agree with sysard when he tries to suggest that greed etc are western values imported into Thailand. Greed, avarice, selfishness etc are innately HUMAN characteristics which have been part of human life since the year dot - it doesn't matter what cultural attributes your nation or race has, individual human characterstics will always pervade.

The traditional British cultural attribute is politeness, orderly queueing, a certain sang froid or stiff upper lip, yet the pervasive behaviour of the average Brit in 2012 is nothing like that. It is the class of individualism v culture.

I dont profess to be an expert on Thai culture, but I would imagine most people would think it is centred around things like grace, gentility, respect for elders, family, serenity etc. Again, modern Thai individuals are not universally like that also.

Which raises the question of why? I would suggest it's because of the rise of the individual at the expense of the collective. We're all important now. We all want everything because, in the words of the advert 'Because we deserve it'.

Consumerism, relative affluence, our gradual progression up the Maslow hierarchy of needs pyramid. These are the things which have created a range of human behaviours which have everthing to do with being human and nothing to do with being Thai, English, German or from Bongobongo tribe in the Lesotho jungle.

I don't think the majority of British people ever displayed the cultural values that we aspire to. However, we are blessed with a certain distance from the neds and chavs of earlier days, while their contemporary equivalents are all too present among us.

No doubt the same could be said of Thais.

SC

[thequietman]

The remaining four, who sought to take the discussion forward, ALL misunderstood the OP as an anti-Thai tirade, whereas on the contrary he was querying why people attribute apparently-common poor behaviour to culture.

No he wasn't. He was deliberatly talking about what he sees as bad behaviour in Thais as being part of or not part of Thai culture.

Had he done as you suggested, it would be an interesting debate - is binge drinking and football hooliganism amongst young English men, for example, inextricably linked to English culture? Is a sense of coldness and intellectual austerity intrinsically linked to Scandinavian culture? Is operating scams linked to Nigerian culture?

By focussing solely on some negative personality traits by some Thai people (personality traits that are increasingly common across EVERY country in 2012) as part of something innately Thai, he is revealing his true colours.

not true sir. it is a generalisation. i am trying to make a point about apologists and their need to defend any negative situation or total disregard for others as a cultural trait. i only use thailand as an example as i live here, have experienced it first hand and please remember this is the thaivisa forum. if you would like to give a response as regards all nationalitiies and the apologists that reside within their borders, then i welcome it.

thanks.

Why do you continually choose to dwell upon the negative when discussing Thailand? Bendix makes an absolutely valid point when bringing up other nationalities, which is that you can cherry-pick the negative aspects of any society. Bad behavior by a small minority is just that--bad behavior by a small minority. It's not a Thai thing...or an English thing...or a Nigerian thing. I'd never use culture as an excuse for bad behavior and it seems that it's usually the Thai-bashers who do that.

But I notice you'd never bring up the positive aspects of the Thai culture to discuss. I tend to think that you don't believe there are any positive aspects of the Thai culture, correct? If you can answer that without the usual sarcasm, I'd be really impressed.

Positives.

I think most of the thai positives come at the expense of general lack of law and order. however the strong family tie is to be commended and the thai health system, if that comes under culture. a beautiful country with a very laid back approach to life is also good. the thai women are beautiful (culture ? ) and the food is delicious. the traditional thai dress is indeed pretty as is thai dancing.

however if you set out a list of the things you regard as essential thai culture, i will bet most are not really culture but a means to an end. how about a list of positive thai culture from yourself please and maybe other tv members can decide if it is truely cultural or just an excuse to behave badly. suggestions of other asian cultures is most welcome also as this post isn't directed exclusively at the thai people but all cultures in general. thanks.

[bendix]

this post isn't directed exclusively at the thai people but all cultures in general. thanks.

Despite you naming the thread in the very non-Thai specific words: Thai Culture.

[thequietman]

this post isn't directed exclusively at the thai people but all cultures in general. thanks.

Despite you naming the thread in the very non-Thai specific words: Thai Culture.

is this the thaivisa forum or what ? i can only base the cultural differences on the country where i live. if i want feedback from other expats from thailand, where do you suggest i put this topic ?

once again the thai apologists are on the band wagon. what is it with you people ? do you have permanent residence or what ? do you hold a thai passport ? if people slag off any other culture on here, it doesnt seem to be a problem. americans, english, australians, irish. even the mere suggestion that killing 8 people and running away is not thai culture seems to get your backs up.

i am trying to find out why do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on THAIvisa forum. why can't we just call it as it is ?"

thanks.

[DavidOxon]

My wife assures me that Coyote dancers are nothing to do with Thai culture!

D

[F1fanatic]

I'm not sure I agree with sysard when he tries to suggest that greed etc are western values imported into Thailand. Greed, avarice, selfishness etc are innately HUMAN characteristics which have been part of human life since the year dot - it doesn't matter what cultural attributes your nation or race has, individual human characterstics will always pervade.

The traditional British cultural attribute is politeness, orderly queueing, a certain sang froid or stiff upper lip, yet the pervasive behaviour of the average Brit in 2012 is nothing like that. It is the class of individualism v culture.

I dont profess to be an expert on Thai culture, but I would imagine most people would think it is centred around things like grace, gentility, respect for elders, family, serenity etc. Again, modern Thai individuals are not universally like that also.

Which raises the question of why? I would suggest it's because of the rise of the individual at the expense of the collective. We're all important now. We all want everything because, in the words of the advert 'Because we deserve it'.

Consumerism, relative affluence, our gradual progression up the Maslow hierarchy of needs pyramid. These are the things which have created a range of human behaviours which have everthing to do with being human and nothing to do with being Thai, English, German or from Bongobongo tribe in the Lesotho jungle.

I don't think the majority of British people ever displayed the cultural values that we aspire to. However, we are blessed with a certain distance from the neds and chavs of earlier days, while their contemporary equivalents are all too present among us.

No doubt the same could be said of Thais.

SC

I disagree and think the 'average' Brit is polite, accepts orderly queuing, and has a certain sang froid or stiff upper lip. It doesn't however apply to many who moved here when they were young, looking for a different life....

Having lived in the UK until a few years ago, it is 'part of the culture'. Yes, times are changing and there are always the odd exceptions, even amongst the older generation.

As a previous poster pointed out, there have always been greedy and ruthless people. How else did they attain power in their countries - and keep it!?

Unfortunately it does seem to be the 'developing' countries that find lying, cheating, greed etc. more acceptable than the average person in Western countries.

[StreetCowboy]

To the OP:

Following my brief 'back-and-forth' with Bendix, and having read the Original Post more closely...

I have no idea what you are talking about, Quietman.

I think you might need to give us some examples.

You might need to set your stall out in a more logical way, starting with observed facts, and then working towards the point that you want to make.

Let me try and help.

1. There is some bad behaviour around that can be observed, or at least heard about through the newspapers and the complaints of others.

2. People generalise from this, and say that all Thais take bribes, drive drunk, don't smile at me when I hold the door open etc.

3. 'Thai apologists' say "that is their culture and learn to live with it".

As I understand it, you are trying to make one of two points:

Either

- It (1) is bad behaviour that is no more prevelant here than anywhere else, and therefore neither Thai culture nor particularly relevant to a Thai forum

Or

- It (1) is endemic in Thailand (i.e. (2) is more or less correct), but is not rooted in Thai culture, and could be changed and should be deprecated on this forum.

Let's face it, even if you're just having a kick-about you should still mark out your goals.

Now we've got our coats down, perhaps we can kick off again...

SC

[bendix]

i am trying to find out why do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on THAIvisa forum. why can't we just call it as it is ?"

thanks.

I'm not sure people do put it down as 'it's their culture'

As I have been saying, those dysfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self-serving, erratic and downright stupid things are uniquely human (not Thai, not English, not Irish or American) characteristics. They happen everywhere.

I would never intellectualise behaviour and attribute it to culture, so I don't know who these apologists are.

Bad behaviour is bad behaviour. It happens here. It happens everywhere.

So I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove.