Best Advice

[BigBikeBKK]

Passing the bacon at 2:45

LMAO!

[soihok]

Nice one.

[smedly]

Sorry to bring this back to topic but.... 3 quick tips I was taught:

#1 Look for the exit to the curve, don't focus on whats directly in front of you.

#2 Target fixation, you ride where you look. Don't look at the pothole you want to avoid look at the clear path around it. Look at dog = hit dog (ok, not always a bad thing).

#3 As mentioned before, practice your panic stops and don't fear the front brake. On anything other than farm equipment (aka Harley Davidsons), most of your braking power in a proper panic, stop when at speed, comes from the front wheel (70+%).

I agree with everything you said except the last point - and sorry if I got it wrong, do fear the front brake as it will bring you down obviously depending on situation, heavy braking with end in either loss of control or loss of control resulting in loss of control unless you have the sense and reaction to steer away which you cannot do under heavy braking - not talking track conditions here but on public roads where you may need to slow down quickly if something happens in front of you, brake to a point but try and steer out of your situation - all within about 2-3 secs, some times impossible but hard on a brake will bring disaster on a public road, strange thing but I don't use performance brake pads on my road bike because I think they are dangerous and unnessesary, on a track yes when I want to slow from 200mph to 100mph in a short space with tyres that can support it but on a public road on a road geared bike....dangerous, if you can feather the brake and steer an exit from danger.....not always possible I know but fear the front brake

When I say panic stop I don't actually mean that you panic and grab a fist full of brake. I just mean get used to breaking with the front real hard to stop, or to scrub off speed quickly and then maneuver your way out of trouble. In some cases where there is no escape route, the best you can do is try slow down as much as you can before you hit. For instance if a car in front of you panic stops you may not have a viable option to avoid it so you need to learn how to get on the break quickly and forcefully with out jerking on the lever and locking the front (once it locks braking efficiency is in the toilet). Granted with an ABS bike it may not be as important. Learn to love the front brake, at speed I never use the back brake unless I find my self unexpectedly on gravel or something (in which case I would panic stop with the front on the asphalt until I had none left then I would shift to the rear).

I guess what I am really trying to say is that you need to learn to use the front brake if you want to be able to stop or scrub off speed quickly. Using the back brake excessively at speed is both ineffective (bad) and unsettling to the bike (worse). Ok maybe you can ride like Rossi and you are trying to unsettle the bike to set up for a power-slide through a corner.

You can usually apply a significant amount of braking even when leaned over somewhat with the front brake (don't try at excessive lean angles obviously). Try it with the back brake and you will lose the rear and be cartwheeling down the road. You are better off 99% of the time to lose the front instead of the rear (if at speed). If you lose the front you will most often "low side" (slide), if you lose the rear it will most often "high side" (back tire comes around next to you and then you and the bike flip and cartwheel down the road).

I agree with what you said about braking to a point then maneuvering, all I am saying is you should be ready and able to use the front wheel to do the braking with.

ah I see now and great advice and I agree 100% mate, more or less what I was trying to say also and very important thing you said was - if you are in an unavoidable situation where you are going to go down better to use the brakes on the bike and scub off as much speed as possible, I guess it's very hard to advise for every eventuallity as there are so many but the point about using high performance brakes on a road bike with road tyres is one worth noting.........

[smedly]

I went to phuket from pattaya with a guy riding an er6n, I never once went above 5000revs or over 1/3 throttle to stay up close to him, you guys riding er6n's need to relalise - althought a fantastic bike....respect, and i'd love to have a ride on one, when you thrrow your leg over a monster 1000cc+ superbike you are entering a whole different world, when youuuuu... are screaming in 6th gear a superbike is still in 3rd......yes 110kmph in 1st gear - 3rd gear over 200, ask anyone here who has a 1000cc + superbike

Your point being what exactly?

The reason most people don't "throw their leg over a monster" and keep riding their 650s is because they are vastly more suitable for 99% of the roads here in Thailand.

Not sure if you intended it but your post comes across as rather patronising. Many people who choose to ride smaller bikes here have much bigger bikes back home where the conditions are more suitable, they simply feel the 650s are more suitable and value for money here in Thailand.

I'm not sure I'd agree that big bikes are more suitable back home. Back in the UK/US there are strict speed limits and harsh penalties for speeding so having a bike that breaks the motorway speed limit in first gear is kind of a waste of time IMO. Here in Thailand you can use the power of the big bikes as soon as you get out of the city without having to worry about losing your licence. Obviously the driving and road standards are lower here so you have to be very careful/selective with your speed but if you use your common sense and are able to judge when it's safe to go fast then I honestly think you can use more than a 650 twin here, not necessarily for top end speed but for overtaking at typical Thai highway speeds or on long journeys like BKK to Chiang Mai where you don't want to be wringing the bikes neck for hours on end.

I'm currently riding a GSXR 600 but I'm considering a litre bike because on the big open stretches of road I find that while it's plenty fast enough, it's a bit revvy at higher speed. I probably won't make the change because I love the light weight of the 600 - but back home I wouldn't consider a litre bike because there would be nowhere I could even begin to stretch it's legs other than the track which costs an absolute fortune over there.

Great post and exactly what I was trying to say but you put it so much better

[wana]

if your brakes are good enough to lock the wheels then you need better tyres

i dont think its valid to say these things should be only used on a racetrack ,there are times

when you need to slam on the brakes and every inch counts ,maybe even more so on the road than

on a track where your in a more controlled situation

i was coming down petchbury road fast one night and a stupid XXXXX pulled out of klong toei when she had a red light and i had a green one ,the standard brakes and OEM tyres stopped me just shy of her back bumper but those last few seconds of OHOOOOO <SNIP!>i would have loved to had racing tyres and brakes that could stop me in half the distance

Edited February 16, 2012 by metisdead
Profanity removed.

[smedly]

yeh very true and you made my point for me, the brakes are very much matched to the tyres, standard road tyres are designed to last a certain length of time and address many conditions of weather which ultimately sacrifices grip, the reason I made the point was that you read all the time about people upgrading pads etc for more stopping power - all I'm saying is choose carefully as it can be a disaster, just a small point but one I think worth considering, I try to stick with stock brake pads where I can get them, I'll be changing my current fitted pads asap (not stock) as they are just real bad in the wet again not a bad thing for brakes to fall away in wet conditions but these = zero brakes completely nothing lol I have to ride with my foot on the lever in the wet to keep any sort of brake

[BigBikeBKK]

if your brakes are good enough to lock the wheels then you need better tyres

That's one of the stupidest things I've read in a while...

[wana]

if your brakes are good enough to lock the wheels then you need better tyres

That's one of the stupidest things I've read in a while...

if the brakes can lock the wheels .what more can you ask of them ?

the stopping distance comes down to the rubber in contact with the road

are we taking lessons on stupidity now from the guy who thought motorcycles can drive under water ?

[BigBikeBKK]

if your brakes are good enough to lock the wheels then you need better tyres

That's one of the stupidest things I've read in a while...

if the brakes can lock the wheels .what more can you ask of them ?

the stopping distance comes down to the rubber in contact with the road

are we taking lessons on stupidity now from the guy who thought motorcycles can drive under water ?

Wow, you sure have a hard-on for this video don't you...

Are you really that ignorant of how brakes work and how to brake effectively?

On the road ANY brake pad should be able to lock a wheel at ANY speed and on ANY surface. If you can't lock your wheels then there is something seriously wrong with your brakes.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining the finer nuances or braking techniques to you, but I suggest you look up and try to grasp such concepts as brake modulation, threshhold braking, trail braking, cadence braking and braking on low friction surfaces.

Edited February 16, 2012 by BigBikeBKK

[wana]

if your brakes are good enough to lock the wheels then you need better tyres

That's one of the stupidest things I've read in a while...

if the brakes can lock the wheels .what more can you ask of them ?

the stopping distance comes down to the rubber in contact with the road

are we taking lessons on stupidity now from the guy who thought motorcycles can drive under water ?

Good lord are you really that ignorant of how brakes work and how to brake effectively?

ANY brake pad should be able to lock a wheel at ANY speed and on ANY surface. If you can't lock your wheels then there is something seriously wrong with your brakes.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining the finer nuances or braking techniques to you, but I suggest you look up and try to grasp such concepts as threshhold braking, trail braking, cadence braking and braking on low friction surfaces.

your completely missing the point as usual ,your braking distance is increased or decreased by the friction/traction of your tyres in contact with the road

you cant lock up a wheel more than when its already locked up but nice sticky tyres make a world of differnce to coming to an abrupt halt

[BigBikeBKK]

your completely missing the point as usual ,your braking distance is increased or decreased by the friction/traction of your tyres in contact with the road

you cant lock up a wheel more than when its already locked up but nice sticky tyres make a world of differnce to coming to an abrupt halt

A lot of good sticky tires and race pads will do you when you find yourself faced with sand, gravel, oil, diesel, etc etc.

That's when you'll wished you had taken the time to understand, practice and develop some braking skills.

Seems your definition of "good brakes" is anything that can lock up the wheels when in fact locking up the wheels is about the worst thing you can do.

You have much to learn grasshopper

[wana]

im not talking about sand ,oil or diesel

i was talking about reducing stopping distance in a straight line and good tires make a big differnce had you bothered to read instead of your usual antics

of course if your wheels are on ice ,oil ,diesel or sand then its not going to help

i an well aware of not locking the wheels up as that does nothing to help control of the bike in an emergency braking situation

[smedly]

a racing tyre on a racing bike with racing brakes ,on a track will throw you over the bars before locking up the front wheel, (and lockup I mean lose traction perhaps the reason for confusion on this subject as you can lockup but not lose traction in which case as mentioned above you'll be over the bars) so a test of how you want your brakes on a road going bike is not how they will lock up the wheel, it's a balance between grip and traction and weight and suspension and road surface and the latter being the variable

of course bikes now have ABS which probably negates the need for this discussion but I personally prefer to be braking extremely hard before any kind of lockup occurs - lockup means you're going down - simple

Edited February 16, 2012 by smedly

[BigBikeBKK]

im not talking about sand ,oil or diesel

i was talking about reducing stopping distance in a straight line and good tires make a big differnce had you bothered to read instead of your usual antics

of course if your wheels are on ice ,oil ,diesel or sand then its not going to help

i an well aware of not locking the wheels up as that does nothing to help control of the bike in an emergency braking situation

Then perhaps you should say so instead of making a silly nonsensical comment like:

if your brakes are good enough to lock the wheels then you need better tyres

[Dakling]

Rather than engage in the pissing contest, here are some more things I like to do....

Lead with my shoulder. I don't hang off the bike on public roads because I like to keep that in reserve for when I need to change my line unexpectedly, but I do drop the shoulder on the side I am turning towards. Many of you likely do this unconsciously already. what it does in effect is it counter-steers you into the turn because you will push the inside arm out to start the turn. It also gets you weight transferred to the inside but not dramatically so.

Keep the bike at a mid to high RPM range at all times. I don't like lugging the bike around when in town, I like to keep it somewhere in the power band at all times so if I need to escape a situation I don't need to take the second or so required to downshift. I don't mean that you need to roar along at 12,000 rpm in first gear everywhere but don't tool along at 40km/hr in 5th gear either.

Wear gloves.....common omission but if I am tooling around town, I would rather ride with no jeans or boots than no gloves. granted I don't I recommend the no helmet thing either. Modern gloves with mesh backs are not to warm and provide pretty good protection.

Buy the best tires your budget will allow. A proper sport tire will astound you in how much better it will perform than the IRC OEM crap that comes on most bikes in Thailand.

When riding on a sport bike of even a psuedo sport bike like the Kawi 650s and the 250s on offer locally, always keep something in reserve. Never ride to the limit of your ability when off the track, unexpected shit does happen. Despite 25 years of riding I had 4 accidents in one year in BKK mostly because I was in a hurry and did stupid shit on OEM tires.

My turn to take us off topic now..........Speaking of sport bikes, I really wish they hadn't used the CBR and Ninja designations on the 250 and 650 bikes available in Thailand. I think they should have used CB250, GPz250 and GPz 650 for the CBR and Ninja respectively to differentiate from the "proper" inline 4 cylinder models. Granted most folks wouldn't recognize the GPz tag but maybe they coulda just used the Z like the Z1000. In fact I always though the Ninja was a stupid name anyhow, better to stick with ZXr or something. Anyone else remember back in the mid 80's when Honda had adds out about "even the Ninja hides from a Hurricane". Thank god Honda stopped using the hurricane name.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Dakling

[BigBikeBKK]

My turn to take us off topic now..........Speaking of sport bikes, I really wish they hadn't used the CBR and Ninja designations on the 250 and 650 bikes available in Thailand. I think they should have used CB250, GPz250 and GPz 650 for the CBR and Ninja respectively to differentiate from the "proper" inline 4 cylinder models. Granted most folks wouldn't recognize the GPz tag but maybe they coulda just used the Z like the Z1000. In fact I always though the Ninja was a stupid name anyhow, better to stick with ZXr or something. Anyone else remember back in the mid 80's when Honda had adds out about "even the Ninja hides from a Hurricane". Thank god Honda stopped using the hurricane name.

Lolz! Yeah, the whole misuse of the the CBR and Ninja names is pretty annoying, but at least you can tell a real Ninja from a wanna-be from the ZX vs EX vehicle code.

My first road bike a gazillion years ago was a GPz 550 and I wish the internet had existed back then and I'd read a thread like this as it might have saved me from a lot of noob mistakes.

Great first bike though- nigh on indestructible! Good memories!

Edited February 16, 2012 by BigBikeBKK

[Dakling]

My turn to take us off topic now..........Speaking of sport bikes, I really wish they hadn't used the CBR and Ninja designations on the 250 and 650 bikes available in Thailand. I think they should have used CB250, GPz250 and GPz 650 for the CBR and Ninja respectively to differentiate from the "proper" inline 4 cylinder models. Granted most folks wouldn't recognize the GPz tag but maybe they coulda just used the Z like the Z1000. In fact I always though the Ninja was a stupid name anyhow, better to stick with ZXr or something. Anyone else remember back in the mid 80's when Honda had adds out about "even the Ninja hides from a Hurricane". Thank god Honda stopped using the hurricane name.

Lolz! Yeah, the whole misuse of the the CBR and Ninja names is pretty annoying, but at least you can tell a real Ninja from a wanna-be from the ZX vs EX vehicle code.

My first road bike a gazillion years ago was a GPz 550 and I wish the internet had existed back then and I'd read a thread like this as it might have saved me from a lot of noob mistakes.

Good memories!

Nice photo, my first bike sport bike was a 1985 VFR500, my riding mate had a GPz750 turbo. My bike was sweet his was a #%$@ing monster. Wicked turbo lag, tons of power and crap suspension.....Ahhhh the bad ole' days.

[submaniac]

You two are making me feel like an old man. Yup I remember the "Even the Ninja hides from the Hurricane" ads. My friend had a VFR too, and I remember the GPZ.

[smedly]

jesus you guys are old lol

two of my favs

Suzuki 750GT triple (water bucket as it was nicknamed) water cooled beautiful note http://www.suzukicyc...ies/GT750.shtml

and the Kawasaki 750 H2 another triple

god when you see pictures of them now - not so cool lol

of course I'm going way back to the 70's

Edited February 16, 2012 by smedly

[engrin]

Good thread. Any advice on an instructional vid (or vids) to watch that is available on the nets?

[BigBikeBKK]

Good thread. Any advice on an instructional vid (or vids) to watch that is available on the nets?

Not sure if it was in this thread or another one where we started talking about the Keith Code Twist of the Wrist videos- I think they're great and certainly more fun than reading a book

This is a short version of the first video-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pocXYyHCuw

[smedly]

go back to the first few posts hint hint

[BigBikeBKK]

Twist of the Wrist 2 further refines the concepts taught in the first book/video-

[monty1412]

I t-boned a guy on a scooter suddenly emerging between stopped vehicles before me. He was crossing a 6 lane road and I guess couldn't be bothered with the intersection a few meters ahead. I was passing stopped traffic on the right and .. boom. I wasn't slow enough to come to a stop but slow enough nothing much happened - I guess he was fine as he took off, and I just barely kept the bike from falling over - I hit him with the front wheel so no damage. Now I know: Stopped cars = scooters coming out in-between them.

Another time I was passing a Vigo pick up on the right when a slow scooter suddenly emerged before me - he'd was apparently crossing over inches in front of the Vigo. Surprise!

And then there's the u-turn scooters - a pain in the city, hit one of these guys once with the ER-6, I was going at speed and this guy apparently didn't look in his mirrors, and just crossed over all the way from the left hand side to the right, at a pretty low forward speed, but rather abrupt side movement. Bang. My bike had minimal damage & didn't drop it, I could have just kept going but stopped of course as he'd fallen off his bike... Now I know to look out for these suicide u-turners.

This is a constant menace in Bangkok and led me to revise my opinion on the whole "Loud pipes save lives" debate.

Before moving to Thailand I thought the whole "Loud pipes save lives" slogan of the hogfats was a crock of &lt;deleted&gt;, seeing as how most motorists back home drive around in sound proof cars, blissfully ignorant of everything going on around them.

But here in Thailand most motorists and particularly scooter riders definitely DO listen to what's going on around them. If they hear a loud bike coming they will usually yield. If they don't hear you coming, they'll charge ahead and it's on you to try and avoid them.

In National Parks ???? Tony how could you.....we should start a thread on this ha

But agree with this. The Fazer has an Akrapovic that has nice deep rumble and scooters know im a coming.. One thing i do at intersections is avoid fast getaway.. let the scooter go first and make sure no &lt;deleted&gt; is running the lights or doing U turn from intersecting road.. seen two times scooters race off while light is just turning green and get T boned or swiped by Somcahi who has decided to run the red in order to get to his next destination 0.1 second earleir. Of course no problems on the Fazer catching them all after that but just allow the scooter brigade to act as the carsh dummies.

[smedly]

I do exactly the same thing and like you been glad I take this approach on quite a number of occasions and it's not always Thais that jump the lights seen quite a few farangs do this wishing they hadn't

[nikster]

I do exactly the same thing and like you been glad I take this approach on quite a number of occasions and it's not always Thais that jump the lights seen quite a few farangs do this wishing they hadn't

Sure, absolutely, you never, ever want to be the first into the intersection, or if you are, only after very carefully looking in all directions.... in general never be hurried around intersections. Only way to survive Chiang Mai

[BigBikeBKK]

I do exactly the same thing and like you been glad I take this approach on quite a number of occasions and it's not always Thais that jump the lights seen quite a few farangs do this wishing they hadn't

Sure, absolutely, you never, ever want to be the first into the intersection, or if you are, only after very carefully looking in all directions.... in general never be hurried around intersections. Only way to survive Chiang Mai

dam_n good advice, but it applies not only in Thailand!

[thaicbr]

Well having watched the video 'twist of the wrist 2' twice now and after a bit of practice. I can say that I have been riding wrong for all these years. I have been trying to body steer rather than counter steer (explains Petchabun).

but as they say in the video. I think I've got it.

just going to practice more of the things in the video and hopefully will get it. So any newbies out there download the video.

[monty1412]

I do exactly the same thing and like you been glad I take this approach on quite a number of occasions and it's not always Thais that jump the lights seen quite a few farangs do this wishing they hadn't

Sure, absolutely, you never, ever want to be the first into the intersection, or if you are, only after very carefully looking in all directions.... in general never be hurried around intersections. Only way to survive Chiang Mai

dam_n good advice, but it applies not only in Thailand!

Love the one at 1:30.. you couldnt hope to choerograph that could you.

[monty1412]

Well having watched the video 'twist of the wrist 2' twice now and after a bit of practice. I can say that I have been riding wrong for all these years. I have been trying to body steer rather than counter steer (explains Petchabun).

but as they say in the video. I think I've got it.

just going to practice more of the things in the video and hopefully will get it. So any newbies out there download the video.

Hi Thacbr, where di you download from.. was there a lnk in these threads or just the video clips.. didnt see it ( the link)