Smoke, Smog, Dust 2012 Chiang Mai

[Mapguy]

And a surprise from the past!

A bonus illustration of London in 1952 which makes one pause to criticize. All those chimney pots and all that coal! The world not according to Mary Poppins, just to select one relatively recent romantic cinamatic image of coal-burning Britain.! But recall that the UK was an "economically REdeveloping" nation in 1952. Anyone care to share a similar photo of Los Angeles, California, once upon a time?

So, here goes!

And the UK did something about it!!

Give Thailand time, my friend! It took a LOT of time and resources in the UK ! You might recall that in that era, Brits appreciated "care packages" from abroad! The same is quite true of other more economically-developed ( (or re-developing) economies! The discussion is not pertinent here, but if you care, by PM, to share your thoughts about the current UK health care and economic policies. please do!

The notion of devolution, put into rather dramatic practice by America some several decades ago, is apparently still alive and well on the old sod!!! Hope the Scots don't start bombing in London like the Northern Irish did a few years back. Quite nerve-wracking!

Cheers!!

[siouxzen]

"siouxzen, what are your thoughts regarding the effectiveness of the C-130 military transport aircraft spraying the water into the air?"

I'm not familiar with this method. I know it's been done in Southern California during and immediately after forest fires, but honestly I have no idea what the scale of those were and how they would compare to Chiang Mai.

Without doing my research, I'd imagine it wouldn't hurt, though I'm not sure it's the most efficient use of resources to get the problem under control.

A very thoughtful and considered (tongue in cheek?) way to put your initial reaction to this notion! Hope you stay around! To repeat a blatant opinion (by an engineer) heard elsewhere today: "Like pissing into the ocean!"

Maybe the illustrious science minister, Mr Plodprasop, famed for clearing the floods with 1000 boats, will line up planes on CNX runway, to blow away the smog

Maybe if we all line up on one end of the city and blow real hard, the particulates will float away...

[nikster]

Maybe the illustrious science minister, Mr Plodprasop, famed for clearing the floods with 1000 boats, will line up planes on CNX runway, to blow away the smog

You say that in jest but in reality the only reason Mr. Plodprasop has not already suggested this is that he hasn't thought of it yet! Wait for it, it's coming....

[bobshaw]

This problem could be solved by a CONSCIOUS country wide television ad campaign informing Thais they are killing themselves, their children, grandparents, and driving tourists like me out of the country. Use graphic images to drive the message through by making a CONSCIOUS public service campaign to EDUCATE Thai people on how they are killing themselves, and then create a program in which the old rice plants and leaves are crushed and used to make fertilizer and compost which will create a second income from the rice plants for farmers making it possible for them to have more money from their harvest and be able to improve their lives, and also create another product that can be exported and profited from. Hear that?.... MONEY! The farmers could sell the old dead rice plants for ???.00 baht per ton and make a secondary income from their harvest. It could then be crushed and ground into fertilizer, compost, etc. No Thai would take a match to money which is exactly what this throw away waste could be converted into. And you save lives, create a healthier environment and won't be killing your kids.

Anyway, after two days here it is so bad today I am out of here first flight I can get. When I flew in a couple of days ago this is what it looks like from the plane... see pics.

The smoke was so thick that I am sure the pilot landed on instruments. Starting just north of Bangkok and as far as you could see there was fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire... you get it. This continued until it got to the point where you could not see the ground. The photos were taken in the middle of the country and the other one upon approach to Chiang Mai at the southern mountain range. The fires are from rice farmers, that is where the majority of the smoke comes from and the forest fires are caused by Thais setting fire to the forest to chase out animals so they can shoot them, I know this because I observed it myself and heard the gunshots.

The government needs to take a good hard look at who they are and what they are doing and what level their CONSCIOUSNESS is. People are killing themselves and nobody is doing anything to stop it. Nobody CARES and nobody is operating at a high enough level of CONSCIOUSNESS to look at what is happening, the damage being done, the lives being destroyed. Where is their human CONSCIOUSNESS and COMPASSION as they stand by and do nothing while their people suffer and die and their country is marked as an unhealthy place for a tourist to visit. Right now my eyes are burning, I am having trouble breathing to the point I had to go to a hardware store to buy a respirator with a high quality filter so I can breathe. The smoke is coming into my hotel room choking me as I type. Hopefully I can get a flight out of Thailand tomorrow.

Are any government officials listening?

[chiang mai]

And voila, the habits of several hundreds of years are transformed in an instant!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I left a few days ago to visit California. Wow I am feeling much better. Sinus, eyes, chest, Joints etc.

I just may be Chiang Mai is a 10 to 10.6 month destination. Lots of places have bad weather like snow, ice, pollen and allergies etc. Nothing wrong with bugging out for a short period to preserve one's health and happiness.

I am pretty happy with air quality the rest of the year when the rains are consistent.

[Mapguy]

Seems I have figured out the attachment posting technique. I am ecstatic, but still realize not all readers are! Nonetheless, to continue on another comment du moment: trying to suggest how farang can help out with the pollution bit.

Oh dear, didn't work! I'll try again!

Please Don't Burn Trash Card.pdf

[mcgriffith]

The view from my apt west towards CMU and Doi Suthep, taken a little while ago.

Can barely make out the trees at CM Zoo about 1 km away, and can't see any of the base of the mountain, 1st ridgelines, etc.

It goes without saying that Doi Suthep and the entire mountain is completely lost from sight.

[chiangmaiexpat]

This problem could be solved by a CONSCIOUS country wide television ad campaign informing Thais they are killing themselves, their children, grandparents, and driving tourists like me out of the country.

Yes, I agree. This is definitely the way to tackle the problem. It's all about changing public awareness. Thai people are currently not very conscious of environmental problems, which is of course quite common for NICs and developing countries, but the problem is aggravated here by the fact that those who directly cause the problem (farmers, scavengers) have the lowest degree of awareness, while those who are in charge in this country are hampered by corruption and incompetence. I have seen little change in the attitudes of people during my time here, hence, I would not count on effective action by the government within the next decade or so. For the time being, we have to work out individual coping strategies.

I have bought an air purifier with HEPA filter yesterday. It filters out particles down to 0.3 microns. Currently, we stay indoors, shut all doors and windows, and use the purifier device until the kids finish school early next month. Then we will head down to Prachuap Khiri Khan. The purchase was inspired by an American study that documented reduction of PM 2.5 inside homes where people use coal firing or open fire places. I figure that although the burning happens outside here, the effect should be the same. If it meets expectations, I will equip more rooms with HEPA filters for the burning season.

Cheers, CMX

[CMTourist]

Flew in Wednesday night from Udon and because it was dark and the plane wasn't very high I could clearly see the fires on the ground below. They were EVERYWHERE!

I can't believe this can last very long as judging by the amount burning it won't take long to have burnt everything.

And this is the worst I've ever experienced. I'm not sensitive at all to air quality, yet I've woken up with a sore throat some mornings.

I can only imagine how bad it must be for people who are sensitive

[Tywais]

Dangerous Haze in 6 Provinces

[elektrified]

I do the same to protect the area behind our house on a rocky slope full of bushes, bamboo, big trees in brief, full of nature. In the dry season the ground is piled with dry leaves and limbs. When the hill tribes start their fires and it is creeping to “our hill” I take my shovel and kill it like you.

I'd just like to say I really admire what folks like you and Petey do to directly improve your local environment.

Thanks for the beautiful pictures ! I have never seen a Pangolin in nature, or a zoo.

best, ~o:37;

+1

I too have never seen those little animals before. I was just reading about them and sadly many are smuggled out of Thailand each year headed for dinner tables in China. Seems they will eat anything!

[rebo]

Maybe the illustrious science minister, Mr Plodprasop, famed for clearing the floods with 1000 boats, will line up planes on CNX runway, to blow away the smog

This one made my day ...

[el jefe]

What about Number Crunching?

There have been some doubting Thomases posting comments about the veracity of the measurements taken by the Pollution Control Department in Thailand. As Priceless pointed out several threads ago on this topic, there is no real reason to doubt the readings or to suspect that they are tampered with. But there is a problem having to do with measurement: the paucity of reporting stations. The "best available data" for Chiang Mai come from readings at just two stations within Chiang Mai Province, one at the governmental complex north of town (at a fairly traffic-free location) and one at Yupparaj School (on a fairly busy intersection inside the moat). Neither is a location where burning takes place.

Although the point is well-taken that statistical manipulation of such limited data can be overdone, the results of sensible statistical analysis in this case basically gibe with simpler observation of air pollution be it viewed from the air, from the peak of Doi Inthanon, from your window, or on top of your dining room table. The reporting station numbers don't apply everywhere in the province, but there's no reason to think these data have been "cooked," and they are reasonably indicative of what's been experienced within the valley in which the city lies as well as useful in detecting trends.

I too was on the side of those who say you have to believe the govt's figures because if you don't then you have nothing at all. But it's really hard to believe that the current PM10 reading (an average for the past 24 hours as of 8:00pm Sunday) for City Hall is a relatively healthy 99. We wouldn't have 280+ posts if the air quality was good.

[MESmith]

I too was on the side of those who say you have to believe the govt's figures because if you don't then you have nothing at all. But it's really hard to believe that the current PM10 reading (an average for the past 24 hours as of 8:00pm Sunday) for City Hall is a relatively healthy 99. We wouldn't have 280+ posts if the air quality was good.

Yesterday, the city hall site was down for a few hours "no data". Maybe they need to clean the filters.....

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What about Number Crunching?

There have been some doubting Thomases posting comments about the veracity of the measurements taken by the Pollution Control Department in Thailand. As Priceless pointed out several threads ago on this topic, there is no real reason to doubt the readings or to suspect that they are tampered with. But there is a problem having to do with measurement: the paucity of reporting stations. The "best available data" for Chiang Mai come from readings at just two stations within Chiang Mai Province, one at the governmental complex north of town (at a fairly traffic-free location) and one at Yupparaj School (on a fairly busy intersection inside the moat). Neither is a location where burning takes place.

Although the point is well-taken that statistical manipulation of such limited data can be overdone, the results of sensible statistical analysis in this case basically gibe with simpler observation of air pollution be it viewed from the air, from the peak of Doi Inthanon, from your window, or on top of your dining room table. The reporting station numbers don't apply everywhere in the province, but there's no reason to think these data have been "cooked," and they are reasonably indicative of what's been experienced within the valley in which the city lies as well as useful in detecting trends.

I too was on the side of those who say you have to believe the govt's figures because if you don't then you have nothing at all. But it's really hard to believe that the current PM10 reading (an average for the past 24 hours as of 8:00pm Sunday) for City Hall is a relatively healthy 99. We wouldn't have 280+ posts if the air quality was good.

It seems that station experienced a problem. You can see that if you look at the graph, with an unusual dip showing. The Yupparat station didn't show any dip, of course. Overall the government pollution control department is doing an excellent job of providing data, and they even improved it for this year with the new site. But yes, any station can have an outage.

[jonwilly]

"We wouldn't have 280+ posts if the air quality was good."

Very true, totally agree.

Had lunch down town yesterday, Sunday, one of our number came in from Mae Rim and opening comment was

'Air's much cleaner here in town, then outside at my place.'

john

Oh it's bad this year.

[theoldgit]

We are spending three days in Chiang Mai next month with friends who are visiting from the UK, is it really that unbearable at the moment?

[peteinchina]

We are spending three days in Chiang Mai next month with friends who are visiting from the UK, is it really that unbearable at the moment?

Yes.

I'm gutted (an old New Zealand saying)

I've spent the last 2 years in China, most polluted and poorest air quality in the world, arguably. No problems.

I moved to Chiang Mai 5 weeks ago, after many holidays here, love it.

For the last 3 days I've found it difficult to breathe. Coughing up ummmm, stuff, sore throat, running nose.

I would go to hospital, but what would they do... I know the cause and I know the cure...

Chiang Mai is such an incredibly good place! I love the arts, the culture, the diverse mix of people here, the proximity of idyllic spots, the food..... I could go on.

But now I am looking for work elsewhere.

For me, the best place in the world, but one thing kills it. If I live here long time, I know it will shorten my life.

So sad...

[cmsally]

A number of people have commented the air is better downtown than outside town. Was talking to a policeman this morning who says Mae Rim terrible. Apparently Hang Dong/Sanpatong also terrible according to someone else. So I guess stay downtown but is c... here too. Attending 4 funerals this week, it really makes you think!

[mikewet88]

A link posted from TAT Chiang Mai about artificial Rain making to solve this smog problem: http://bit.ly/AlJ0EC (in Thai)

Start around 1.30pm today and expect to rain 3-4 later.

Edited February 27, 2012 by mikewet88

[elektrified]

I came back yesterday to CM after a short trip, and I certainly agree that the pollution level today was highly unpleasant, to say the least! (Also officially classified as "out of bounds".) Just to comment on some of what has been said earlier in this thread, however:

Good to see you on-board Priceless, have been waiting for your input.

His posts on this subject are excellent.

[cloudhopper]

A link posted from TAT Chiang Mai about artificial Rain making to solve this smog problem: http://bit.ly/AlJ0EC (in Thai)

Start around 1.30pm today and expect to rain 3-4 later.

This technique belongs in the same category as using 1,000 motor boats to speed along flood waters.

[el jefe]

What about Number Crunching?

There have been some doubting Thomases posting comments about the veracity of the measurements taken by the Pollution Control Department in Thailand. As Priceless pointed out several threads ago on this topic, there is no real reason to doubt the readings or to suspect that they are tampered with. But there is a problem having to do with measurement: the paucity of reporting stations. The "best available data" for Chiang Mai come from readings at just two stations within Chiang Mai Province, one at the governmental complex north of town (at a fairly traffic-free location) and one at Yupparaj School (on a fairly busy intersection inside the moat). Neither is a location where burning takes place.

Although the point is well-taken that statistical manipulation of such limited data can be overdone, the results of sensible statistical analysis in this case basically gibe with simpler observation of air pollution be it viewed from the air, from the peak of Doi Inthanon, from your window, or on top of your dining room table. The reporting station numbers don't apply everywhere in the province, but there's no reason to think these data have been "cooked," and they are reasonably indicative of what's been experienced within the valley in which the city lies as well as useful in detecting trends.

I too was on the side of those who say you have to believe the govt's figures because if you don't then you have nothing at all. But it's really hard to believe that the current PM10 reading (an average for the past 24 hours as of 8:00pm Sunday) for City Hall is a relatively healthy 99. We wouldn't have 280+ posts if the air quality was good.

It seems that station experienced a problem. You can see that if you look at the graph, with an unusual dip showing. The Yupparat station didn't show any dip, of course. Overall the government pollution control department is doing an excellent job of providing data, and they even improved it for this year with the new site. But yes, any station can have an outage.

I know that station was not working properly. It seems they averaged in all the "zero' readings to come up wit pollution numbers.

Unfortunately, that makes a lot of the comparable statistics that one of our members likes to use, much less meaningful.

[webfact]

Rainmaking operation kicks off to combat Chiang Mai haze

CHIANG MAI, Feb 27 – The Northern Royal Rainmaking Centre initiate its first operation to fight haze and drought in Thailand’s northern provinces on Monday afternoon by inducing moisture in the atmosphere to fall as rain, clearing the skies.

Kitti Thupsri, technical specialist at the centre said that three aircraft are set to start the artificial rainmaking operation over Chiang Mai’s provincial seat, the first targeted location to alleviate haze and suspended dust particles that have been at more that safety standard for several days.

However, he said the operation may not be fully effective due to unfavourable weather and low humidity in the air.

The rainmaking operation will continue until October to ease the haze problem and drought in the northern region, he added.

Meanwhile, in Nan, a forest fire spread to an area near 20 military houses behind the Phu Pieng district office, causing haze in several areas including Nan municipality where dust particles were measured on Monday at 134 microgrammes per cubic metre, higher than the safety standard.

Officials are working to bring the fire under control.

Nan mayor Surapol Thienrasutr asked for cooperation from residents to absolutely refrain from burning because dust particles if increasing can substantially affect health of the public.

If such fires spread to other property, legal action will be taken against violators. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-02-27

[Tywais]

Smog Threats in Northern Provinces

Smoke continues to linger over the northern provinces, while pollution levels are higher than the normal in many areas.

In Chiang Rai Province, many areas have been covered by smog, especially at Mae Sai District, which borders Burma. The area is now reeling under high pollution levels.

The PM10 level, which indicates the density of very minute dust particles in the air, is measured at 172.3 micrograms per cubic meter, whereas the PM10 level in downtown Chaing Rai measures at 151.7 micrograms per cubic meter.

The smog has caused difficulties for drivers, especially on Mai Sai's Phaholyothin Road along the entire Phayao route, passing Mai Sai, Mae Chan, Muang, Mae Lao, and Pan districts.

The visibility is low and burning activities have been ongoing around Thailand and its neighboring countries. Chiang Mai Municipality has dispatched trucks to spray water into the air around the city to improve air quality and reduce pollution levels.

Meanwhile, Chiang Mai Governor Mom Luang Panadda Disakul (ปนัดดา ดิศกุล) pointed out that the process of making artificial rain will begin next week to reduce the dust particles in the air.

Residents and tourists have been warned to wear safety masks to protect them from having respiratory problems. Safety masks are available at the Public Health Office. Likewise, in Lampang Province, forest fires and field clearing by burning has increased the smoke in the area.

Lampang Governor Booncherd Kidhen has asked residents to closely watch for combustion and violators will face disciplinary action to prevent the situation from getting worse.

In addition to the smog problems in the northern area, the Weather Department has reported that high atmospheric pressure now covers the upper part of Vietnam, and is expected to cover the northeast region of Thailand and the South China Sea soon.

This will cause thunderstorms in the upper areas of Thailand, and there will be heavy rains and wind, starting in the northeast region. The temperature will decrease by two to three degrees Celsius, and will go on to affect other regions in coming days.

-- Tan Network 27 February 2012

[cloudhopper]

"Kitti Thupsri, technical specialist at the centre said that three aircraft are set to start the artificial rainmaking operation over Chiang Mai’s provincial seat, the first targeted location to alleviate haze and suspended dust particles that have been at more that safety standard for several days.

However, he said the operation may not be fully effective due to unfavourable weather and low humidity in the air.

The rainmaking operation will continue until October to ease the haze problem and drought in the northern region, he added."

Another impressive demonstration of the great scientific prowess here. I suspect their rain making operations will be far more successful during the May-Oct period.

[bikerjoy]

leaving in three weeks...hope I survive!

[Awk]

"Kitti Thupsri, technical specialist at the centre said that three aircraft are set to start the artificial rainmaking operation over Chiang Mai’s provincial seat, the first targeted location to alleviate haze and suspended dust particles that have been at more that safety standard for several days.

However, he said the operation may not be fully effective due to unfavourable weather and low humidity in the air.

The rainmaking operation will continue until October to ease the haze problem and drought in the northern region, he added."

Another impressive demonstration of the great scientific prowess here. I suspect their rain making operations will be far more successful during the May-Oct period.

Not sure if the October reference is something lost in translation or not, but seems more likely than not.

Other than that I'm not sure what prowess you feel the specialist are lacking? One or two posters here do seem to have some education in the field, and if you are one of them I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be all ears to hear from somebody with more impressive scientific prowess.

Would be a nice change from the more or less retarded rants here, including the one wunderkind who not only complained that the new air quality report site was not (yet?) available in English, but even insinuated it might be to keep the farangs in the dark about things. Never mind we are not in an English speaking country and that people like that are indeed best kept in the dark, without any Internet available preferably.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Awk

[cloudhopper]

Other than that I'm not sure what prowess you feel the specialist are lacking?

I thought it was pretty clear that I said it was scientific.

Say I wonder what happened to the amazing locally-developed 'Disaster Warning Device' that the Ministry of Science and Technology rolled out with great fanfare a year ago? Haven't heard any more about it and it doesn't appear that it enjoyed great success predicting the floods.

Anyway enjoy the beautiful conditions there in CM later this week

edit- link to ministry announcement http://www.thailandnews.co/2011/03/thai-science-and-technology-ministry-to-unveil-disaster-warning-device/

Edited February 27, 2012 by cloudhopper