Smoke, Smog, Dust 2012 Chiang Mai

[orang37]

I do the same to protect the area behind our house on a rocky slope full of bushes, bamboo, big trees in brief, full of nature. In the dry season the ground is piled with dry leaves and limbs. When the hill tribes start their fires and it is creeping to “our hill” I take my shovel and kill it like you.

I'd just like to say I really admire what folks like you and Petey do to directly improve your local environment.

Thanks for the beautiful pictures ! I have never seen a Pangolin in nature, or a zoo.

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 21, 2012 by orang37

[puck2]

Are the haze experts victim of statistics ?

Let me start with a provoking joke. But please hold in mind I don’t want to harm anybody.

When I take my gun, shoot at you and miss your left ear by 1 cm with the first bullet and miss your right ear by the same distance of 1 cm with the second

bullet, then you are dead, as dead as a dodo … to evaluate it statistically.

Yes… actually you have been killed 2 times ;-( … statistically!

In my life I have learnt to watch statistics with a lot of mistrust and scepticism. They can be useful if the basics are solid and well explained. On the other hand they can be used to manipulate and make you believe something what isn’t true.

Therefore, for using statistic,s you should be informed about important details. Using Thai statistics is a double danger to be manipulated.

Now my questions:

- how many measurement stations have been there and where located?

- who supervised them?

- who publicised the results?

Priceless wrote

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Third a table of monthly and yearly averages in CM for the last ten years (N/A means that >25% of observations for that year/month are missing). Note that the burning (or at least the pollution) does not start earlier and earlier for each year:

Fourth a graph showing moving twelve-month average levels since mid-2004 and, maybe more interestingly, a trend line for that time. Note that the trend has fallen from 56 in mid 2004 to 35 at the end of 2011, i.e. a decrease by more than a third. Quite an amazing improvement in such a relatively short period of time. (Maybe one should not be too quick in saying that the Thais don't do anything about the problem.):

From this graph you can also see that the worst of the year in CM is normally the latter part of February (where we are now) and most or all of March.

..............................

/ Priceless

This is the result of comparing (dubious ???) numbers. But remember my joke. There are facts and relationships you cannot compare or express simply by numbers. Fact is, last year the rainy season started about 1 ½ month earlier than usual. Here in our MHS area exactly on 1st of March. The rain averted the fires. Therefore March and April 2011 showed consequentially reduced pollution results compared to the years before. To conclude now, the pollution trend goes downwards, that’s not real and not true, that’s tricky.

This year (2012) the numbers will skyrocket again. The people here and in CM are afraid the rainy season might start as early as in last year. Yesterday the fires here around have been worse then ever within the last 6 years. A positive trend? Not at all. Fire and pollution depend only on the weather and the mind of the people. That means 8 months rainy season like in 2011 reduce the pollution. 4 months rainy season like in 2010 is responsible for a higher pollution.

I’m even not sure if our yesterday’s fires are shown in the map under your point 4.

The yellow line in graph Nr.4. - based on “results” in Nr.3 - shows a declining average pollution line. For 2012 it will get a sharp bend upwards so that the yellow line (average) will be very flat. Therefore it seems not to be an “amazing movement”. Again, I wouldn’t like to rely on these measurements until I know the conditions of measuring.

You believe the Thais did something against the pollution because of the declining yellow line, whereas I think the weather did it alone. Even if less pollution, for me it’s the same as less pregnant. It’s still too much.

BTW, we don’t need the CM pollution dates. When my partner has problems with her eyes and her nose and we cannot see the mountains in the background, then it doesn’t matter if there are 91, 125 or 250 nano-particles per m³ in the air. Then we know its very unhealthy now. For example when the sky looks like this at 9 am ->

and not like ->

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You talk about statistics using the following logic: "because some people don't use statistics correctly, data can never be trusted."

Note that it's not statistics so much that you mistrust, but the actual raw data that is collected all over Thailand every day. As the numbers are clearly observable just looking out a window that has somewhat of a view, it would be very hard to meddle with them without this being easily noticed.

Like Priceless said, if you don't trust the numbers then we're having a different discussion.

Anyway, the good thing about this climate in the North is that you can only burn something once. So even if it happens a little earlier this year, that hopefully means for a larger spread, and avoiding a large peak in March. And as I've said countless times, you will see several peaks of varying intensity and duration until it subsides end March / first week of April.

Currently we're back to 'normal' for this time of the year. I say that not only because I trust the numbers from the government agency in charge of analyzing and mitigating pollution, but also because I can see just see it looking at the mountain. Or look 45 degrees up and see blue.

Edited February 22, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Thailand]

I think we will see even more burning this year as there appears to be another planting of rice that won't be harvested for 2 or 3 months and then the stubble burnt as per normal so probably running in to May unless those beautiful rains come early again and mitigate the problem as last year.

[Mapguy]

Thanks to the Chiang Mai Mail:

As winds cleared the haze and reduced PM10 levels of 180 micrograms per cubic meter, which was dangerously high to recent readings of 81 mcg, the city and police increased efforts to reduce current and future pollution in the city with smog checks of vehicles on the road and fire trucks sprayed water in the air to reduce the dust. The city has instituted pickups of leaves and plant material on Saturdays and Sundays. Please call 053259117, 085 7179196 to collect leaves. The government has set up hotlines for members of the public to call if they see fires. Inside the city please call 053 234444, 234193. The number for fires in the Province and outside Chiang Mai city is 05 340 9345.

[Tywais]

It's back. Woke up this morning with a thick smog haze out my backdoor and my house smelling like it was in the middle of a forest fire and my eyes burning. A friend said he could see fires on the side of Doi Suthep last night.

[jonwilly]

Visibility is not as good today Thursday, as it was Mon, Tue, Wed.

john

and Statistics can be tortured to confess to anything.

[Thailand]

It's back. Woke up this morning with a thick smog haze out my backdoor and my house smelling like it was in the middle of a forest fire and my eyes burning. A friend said he could see fires on the side of Doi Suthep last night.

Yep, could smell it as soon I went to shower this early morning.

And almost required a respirator playing golf at Hang Dong,disgusting and a disgrace, the local authorites should be ashamed but I guess they won't have noticed!

[eyecatcher]

I dont get it...whinging complaining farangs again. how many thais have made negative comments on this topic? ..any?

We have a choice, we can live anywhere in the world but we chose to live here.

We know the smog comes for a month or so each year, we know driving on the roads is dangerous, we know we will be charged slightly more for everything, we know our businesses are opportunities for officials to make money....and so on

Live with it or go somewhere else.

For me it beats polluted metropolis like Bkk,London, LA etc etc

Remember these people are doing this generally to prepare for a new season of crop growing, cleaning and fertilising at the same time, they dont have machinery, chemicals and the like to farm with- at least its natural smoke pollution not factory pollution.

Just think about where you are, we are guests, visitors, tourists-if you dont like it live somewhere else.

and for me i only noticed it for 2 days, last couple days been clear again.

[chiang mai]

I dont get it...whinging complaining farangs again. how many thais have made negative comments on this topic? ..any?

We have a choice, we can live anywhere in the world but we chose to live here.

We know the smog comes for a month or so each year, we know driving on the roads is dangerous, we know we will be charged slightly more for everything, we know our businesses are opportunities for officials to make money....and so on

Live with it or go somewhere else.

For me it beats polluted metropolis like Bkk,London, LA etc etc

Remember these people are doing this generally to prepare for a new season of crop growing, cleaning and fertilising at the same time, they dont have machinery, chemicals and the like to farm with- at least its natural smoke pollution not factory pollution.

Just think about where you are, we are guests, visitors, tourists-if you dont like it live somewhere else.

and for me i only noticed it for 2 days, last couple days been clear again.

Good grief, more whinging farangs whinging about more whinging farangs, will it never cease!

Edited February 23, 2012 by chiang mai

[Tywais]

I dont get it...whinging complaining farangs again. how many thais have made negative comments on this topic? ..any?

Possibly because there are not many as TV members in CM. My post above about the fires - that was a 'Thai' friend. Others where I work have also commented on it - guess you think Thais can't whine either. Even the governor is whining if you read the news.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think it is whinging.

When people manage words like "disgusting and a disgrace, the local authorites should be ashamed but I guess they won't have noticed!" and they write this right below a post that clearly states:

"The city has instituted pickups of leaves and plant material on Saturdays and Sundays. Please call 053259117, 085 7179196 to collect leaves. The government has set up hotlines for members of the public to call if they see fires. Inside the city please call 053 234444, 234193. The number for fires in the Province and outside Chiang Mai city is 05 340 9345."

..then that's whinging. Or ranting, by a guest at their hosts.

Crucially: not all 'discussion of an issue' is whinging; on this topic there is a lot of legitimate, interesting dicussion going on, even on this forum. And then there is whinging.

Edited February 23, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Tywais]

I think it is whinging.

Depends on if you are American or British though from what I've seen the British seem to do it more.

Whine : to complain with or as if with a whine <always whining about the weather> <kidding guys>

[Thailand]

I think it is whinging.

When people manage words like "disgusting and a disgrace, the local authorites should be ashamed but I guess they won't have noticed!" and they write this right below a post that clearly states:

"The city has instituted pickups of leaves and plant material on Saturdays and Sundays. Please call 053259117, 085 7179196 to collect leaves. The government has set up hotlines for members of the public to call if they see fires. Inside the city please call 053 234444, 234193. The number for fires in the Province and outside Chiang Mai city is 05 340 9345."

..then that's whinging. Or ranting, by a guest at their hosts.

Crucially: not all 'discussion of an issue' is whinging; on this topic there is a lot of legitimate, interesting dicussion going on, even on this forum. And then there is whinging.

I do believe you are whinging abiout my whinging.

This is my home and has been for some years and I feel I am entitled to whinge,complain,state my opinion,or whatever within reason on an open forum.

I missed the post relating to the efforts being put in by the local authorites which I applaud but if my post had been prior to that it would have been spot on.

I reiterate,it is "disgusting and a disgrace, the local authorites should be ashamed" addendum: but pleased to see they have finally noticed and are taking action.

[Mapguy]

Also take a look at the interesting survey/data on the links at Post 198 regarding Thailand's profile and standing worldwide on many measures of environmental sustainability.

[Tomhill]

Actually... Thais have been burning rice fields and forests for --what?-- seven hundred years now? So how come the problems hit us in such a huge way only now? The reason, folks, is the same why islands off Western Japan -- no industry and no cars -- experience dense smog -- it's the Asian Brown Cloud aka Giant Brown Cloud (I'm unable to post a link, but just google the term).

What can you do? Only one thing, it seems: get out.

[Tywais]

Smog problem worsened in Lampang

Smog problem clearly worsened on Wednesday in Lampang as the local airport turned on lights on its runway during the day to aid the safe landing of aircraft.

"Visibility has been dropping fast," Lampang weather bureau's chief Tiwan Phanmaisee said.

He believed the amount of small dust particles, those sized no more than PM10, might have soared past the safe limit of 120 micrograms per cubic metre of air.

In the nearby province of Lamphun, airquality monitoring devices showed readings of 122.29 micrograms per cubic metre of air.

"The situation is worrying," Lamphun Governor Surachai Khanarsa said.

He said the smoke problem would harm not just people's health but the province's tourism and appeal as an investment destination.

Surachai instructed authorities to strictly enforce measures to prevent forest fires.

Meanwhile Agriculture Minister Theera Wongsamut said the premier set up a committee chaired by Deputy PM's Yongyuth Wichaidit chairs this committee to address the smoke problem from forest fires and fires ignited to burn agricultural waste or clear farmland.

-- The Nation 23 February 2012

[MESmith]

Just before dark this evening, the view to the south & west from our place was a layer of smoke at about 1st floor level stretching from due south to due west, about a km away. If the authorities want to clamp down on the burning, it's pointless waiting by their "hotline" - send patrols out. It's very easy to find the smoke. follow it back to source. No doubt they're satisfied they've made there pronouncements.........

[jamesbrock]

I can't help but wonder what they're doing with the leaves they're collecting...

Rode up to Buphing Palace today, and rode over the top towards a few villages (didn't make it much past the Doi Pui campground, but that's another story). We stopped to try to look at the view, but there was none. Must come back later in the year.

[cloudhopper]

"He believed the amount of small dust particles, those sized no more than PM10, might have soared past the safe limit of 120 micrograms per cubic metre of air.

In the nearby province of Lamphun, airquality monitoring devices showed readings of 122.29 micrograms per cubic metre of air."

Very convenient for them not to have any monitoring gear in Lampang, the site of an anthracite-burning power station.

The governor appears to be more concerned with the effects on tourism and investment than the health of the people.

Edited February 24, 2012 by cloudhopper

[MESmith]

"He believed the amount of small dust particles, those sized no more than PM10, might have soared past the safe limit of 120 micrograms per cubic metre of air.

In the nearby province of Lamphun, airquality monitoring devices showed readings of 122.29 micrograms per cubic metre of air."

Very convenient for them not to have any monitoring gear in Lampang, the site of an anthracite-burning power station.

The agriculture minister appears to be more concerned with the effects on tourism and investment than the health of the people.

They do. a37 is in Lampang city, a40 is at Mae Moh, If you click on any site you are redirected to a googlemap showing the location. Zoom out & pan around to find the other monitoring stations.

[cloudhopper]

Thanks I guess the governor doesn't know about that one either, or prefers to use the Lamphun figures...

[MESmith]

Thanks I guess the governor doesn't know about that one either, or prefers to use the Lamphun figures...

There pretty bad, too

[Tywais]

This morning - Smog in Chiang mai is worse today than yesterday. http://twitpic.com/8ntpj8

[chiang mai]

If anyone hasn't already seen it, it's worth while looking at the fire map to see the extent of the problem:

http://firefly.geog.umd.edu/firemap/

[Ned]

I've lived in a village for the last ten years and honestly I haven't heard anyone this year complaining about the air quality. It doesn't seem to bother them even if it makes them cough and have sore eyes. It's beyond their control like everything else.

[Gonzo the Face]

Here on the river [N E side f the city] the visable pollution seems to be getting worse by the hour. Just looking down the street is like looking into a fog/smog bank.

Really much more noticeable in the past hour or two.

G

[chiangmaiexpat]

I can't help but wonder what they're doing with the leaves they're collecting...

My neighbour is burning them. He has just raked up a handsome pile which he used as fuel to burn some larger logs. The surrounding air doesn't seem to bother him in the least. I never stop wondering why some people are that dense.

Cheers, CMX

[WinnieTheKhwai]

They may even see some positives:

* Beautiful sunsets! Chiang Mai city, with mountains to the West, typically doesn't get nice sunsets because the sun disappears behind the mountains while still relatively bright. These days though, it's very pretty.

* Cooler. It's notably less hot on hazy days.

* Avoid dark skin; it's like having a free, city-wide layer of SPF-25 above our heads!

[chiang mai]

They may even see some positives:

* Avoid dark skin; it's like having a free, city-wide layer of SPF-25 above our heads!

The "dark" simply moves to the lungs at such times!