Red Shirts And Multicolored Shirts To Rally For And Against Charter Change

[webfact]

CHARTER REVIEW

Political rivals to rally today for and against change

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Constitutional amendment seems likely to bring the political conflict back to the boil, with supporters and detractors of the move expected to gather today when Parliament begins its deliberation of the bills seeking changes to a charter clause to allow the formation of a Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA).

The red shirts, who are key supporters of the ruling Pheu Thai Party, and the multicoloured-shirts group, which opposes attempts to change the charter for personal benefit, plan to gather separately in front of Parliament.

Meanwhile, the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), after its long political seclusion, yesterday issued a statement opposing the ruling coalition's attempt to rewrite the Constitution in a way to allow "parliamentary dictatorship by evil political capitalism".

The PAD called on its supporters from around the world to join a rally to call for "big political reform" on March 10, with the location to be specified later.

Parliament is today set to begin its two-day deliberation of three separate amendment drafts proposed by the Cabinet, the ruling Pheu Thai Party and the coalition Chart Thai Pattana Party.

Udomdej Ratanasathien, the chief government whip, said both the supporters and detractors of constitutional amendment had the right to hold peaceful gatherings.

"We [parliamentarians] have our duty to do, and we do not get involved with anything that is beyond the control of Parliament," he said.

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva expressed support for a proposal by the Law Reform Commission that parliamentary consideration of the charter changes should be postponed, so as to wait for the amendment drafts proposed by civic groups, including the red shirts.

A lengthy period is required for verification of the identities of the several thousand proponents of the civic groups' drafts.

Abhisit, who is also the Democrat Party leader, said no political figures had explained why the amendment process should be expedited.

A group of 50 senators - including Surajit Chiravet, Somjet Boonthanom, Kamnoon Sitthisamarn and Rosana Tositrakul - yesterday called a news conference voicing their opposition to the establishment of a CDA.

They said that allowing such a body to rewrite the charter freely would be tantamount to overthrowing the 2007 Constitution, drawn up after the 2006 coup.

The senators said the unstated goals of the charter changes were to weaken the existing independent organisations and the judiciary, which together serve as a checks-and-balances mechanism against the administrative branch of government.

Surajit said his group called for all three drafts to be withdrawn to allow greater participation from the public in the political reform efforts.

Rosana said the constitutional amendment was an attempt by certain politicians to influence all three branches of government - the legislature, the administration and the judiciary - and to whitewash the wrongdoing of a certain former prime minister.

Meanwhile, PAD leaders met yesterday morning and later called a news conference about their response to the constitutional-amendment efforts.

PAD spokesman Panthep Puapongpan, reading out a statement of the group, said the drafts by government politicians were aimed at replacing the entire Constitution with a new one that would "allow Thailand to come under the grip of parliamentary dictatorship by evil political capitalism".

The two main goals are to "whitewash the wrongdoings of the political-party owners and their cohorts, and to strengthen their power grip for total control of the country", the statement said.

The PAD said the group viewed the ruling coalition's amendment as an attempt to overthrow the charter, which is an illegal act against the Constitution.

In a related development, the Sayam Prachapiwat (Siam Reformation) group yesterday called for establishment of a committee to reform the administrative and judicial systems to ensure reconciliation and a sustainable solution to the political conflict.

-- The Nation 2012-02-23

[Buchholz]

Red Shirts And Multicolored Shirts To Rally For And Against Charter Change

A positive indication of the effectiveness of Yingluck's reconciliation efforts.

.

[CalgaryII]

"Political rivals to rally.........", #1^

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva expressed support for a proposal by the Law Reform Commission that parliamentary consideration of the charter changes should be postponed, so as to wait for the amendment drafts proposed by civic groups, including the red shirts.

The Red Shirts a "civic group"?

Another oppositional ploy to diminish their Opponents.

Another media publication also insists on calling the Red Shirts "a group"

Wishful thinking of the highest order.

They are up against the most cohesive, organized and largest Political organization this country has probably ever seen. A Movement largely responsible for Ms. Y's electoral victory.

Constitutional Reform is a 'red line' for them, and any attempt to derail it, shows how much in La La land they live.

Even if Ms. Y was passionately opposed to Constitutional reform, which she is not, she has no choice.

Ya don't do Constitutional Reform, and soon, ya not going to survive politically.

A powerful message all Politicians understand.

So all these groups the Opposition is creating through whom to launder their agenda, is just 'pissin' into the wind'.

Constitutional Reform is going to happen. The voters in the last election ain't gonna be denied.

[sparebox2]

QUOTE ABOVE "The PAD called on its supporters from around the world to join a rally to call for "big political reform" on March 10, with the location to be specified later."

I don't thing you want a real BIG reform. Everyone will end in jail just for suggesting it.

[monkfish]

A group of 50 senators - including Surajit Chiravet, Somjet Boonthanom, Kamnoon Sitthisamarn and Rosana Tositrakul - yesterday called a news conference voicing their opposition to the establishment of a CDA.

They said that allowing such a body to rewrite the charter freely would be tantamount to overthrowing the 2007 Constitution, drawn up after the 2006 coup.

The senators said the unstated goals of the charter changes were to weaken the existing independent organisations and the judiciary, which together serve as a checks-and-balances mechanism against the administrative branch of government.

Would be interested to know if the 50 Senators were elected or selected?

suppose a quick google search on those names would provide the answer

from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia....ate_of_Thailand

"The 1997 Constitution saw a return to a fully elected Senate. That constitution was abrogated after the 2006 coup, and replaced with one calling for a half-elected/half-appointed Senate."

Now who would appose reversing an undemocraticly apointed senate?

Interesting to note the powers the Thai Senate have on the wikipedia,

Yep a lot of bigwigs will not like this at all so could be trouble.

[blows]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

[animatic]

And ... They're OFF!

Just in time for the Songkran Riot Season.

Where was the ballot question in the last election that says rewriting the charter is the voters choice.

Oh, right, there wasn't one. But because PTP said they might do this then that makes it ok... not.

Charter rewrites are too big as thing to be based solely on one parties campaign plank.

Edited February 23, 2012 by animatic

[sparebox2]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

Or a coup.

Edited February 23, 2012 by sparebox2

[animatic]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

Absolutely the correct and logical position,

but TIT.

[animatic]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

Or a coup.

Or unilaterally taking back the PM job you have resigned from,

and then representing the country in the UN as if you were still the legal PM.

Edited February 23, 2012 by animatic

[airconsult]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

But that is not what the 2007 constitution says..... The government is following the rules laid down in it for constitutional amendment.

In fact "so as to wait for the amendment drafts proposed by civic groups, including the red shirts." I'm curious why the Law reform commission states this, as the constitution sec 291(1) specifically states that amendments can only be proposed by the Council of State or MPs satisfying certain conditions.

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html#C15

Section 291. An amendment of the Constitution may be made only under the rules and procedure as follows:

(1) a motion for amendment must be proposed either by the Council of Ministers or members of the House of Representatives of not less than one-fifth of the total number of the existing members of the House of Representatives or members of both Houses of not less than one-fifth of the total number of the existing members thereof or persons having the right to votes of not less than fifty thousand in number under the law on the public submission of a bill;

A motion for amendment which has the effect of changing the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State or changing the form of State shall be prohibited;

[Buchholz]

Now who would appose reversing an undemocraticly apointed senate?

Those that were familiar with the previous "non-partisan" partisan Senate, which was under the control of a despot.

.

[bigbamboo]

Red Shirts And Multicolored Shirts To Rally For And Against Charter Change

A positive indication of the effectiveness of Yingluck's reconciliation efforts.

.

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

[Buchholz]

Poll: Public Against Charter Overhaul

The National Institute of Development Administration or NIDA conducted an survey of 1,258 people across the country about the charter amendment.

The NIDA survey showed that 58.4 percent of respondents disagree with rewriting the entire constitution.

They say only certain provisions should be modified, and they are convinced the move aims to favor a certain group of people.

About 54 percent of those surveyed suggested that the amendment take into account the nation's best interests, while 45.1 percent highlighted the importance of public participation.

Meanwhile, 42.7 percent of respondents expect the revised constitution would respect the basic rights of the people and promote equality, while 27.5 percent expect the new charter would receive a wide consensus from various sects of society.

-- Tan Network 2012-02-23

[CalgaryII]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

But coup-ists are OK

They are very good at constitutional reform, thereby protecting and justifying themselves.

[Buchholz]

Poll: Public Against Charter Overhaul

Charter Change Debate to Begin Today

The Parliament will consider various versions of the new constitution proposed by the cabinet, the Pheu Thai Party, and the coalition Chart Thai Pattana Party in the charter debate beginning today.

Government Deputy Spokesman Anusorn Eiamsa-ard said the PM's Office Minister, Worawat Ua-apinyakul, clarified to the Cabinet that Parliament is scheduled to consider three versions of the constitution amendment drafts, today, and tomorrow.

The three drafts include those proposed by the Cabinet, the Pheu Thai Party, and the coalition Chart Thai Pattana Party.

The government, the opposition party, and the senators will all be allocated eight hours for the debate.

At least 325 votes are required to pass the draft. As of now, the government possesses 300 votes. It needs an additional 25 votes from the senators.

In addition, the Cabinet assigned Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung to be a head of a work team at Parliament, while Justice Minister Pracha Promnok is assigned as his assistant.

Moreover, Tourism and Sports Minister Chumpol Silparcha asked about voting methods. Worawat said there would be a roll-call vote.

In addition, Chalerm said the Cabinet would spend less than 10 minutes to clarify its draft before the Parliament. He reaffirmed that the Cabinet will not explain the details in-depth, except where questions are raised.

-- Tan Network 2012-02-23

[bigbamboo]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

But coup-ists are OK

They are very good at constitutional reform, thereby protecting and justifying themselves.

The last charter WAS voted for by the people in a referendum.

[CalgaryII]

Poll: public against charter overhaul, #14^

For starters, NIDA Polls are Oppositional agenda laundering mechanisms. Getting other people to say what the Opposition want, thereby creating the illusion that the public agrees with the Opposition.

This is such an illusion.

"

They say only certain provisions should be modified, and they are convinced the move aims to favor a certain group of people"

An example of above-noted laundering.

The Opposition really doesn't want the currently elected Government messing with the coup constitution they so carefully and self-servingly crafted.

So they have so-called independent research respondents voice that agenda.

They especially like to promote the fact Const. reform benefits certain people, and voila, a Poll confirms it.

Whether the Opposition launders there stuff through these kind of polls, through various groups or their favorite term, 'networks', it is all the same technique.

[CalgaryII]

And ... They're OFF!

Just in time for the Songkran Riot Season.

Where was the ballot question in the last election that says rewriting the charter is the voters choice.

Oh, right, there wasn't one. But because PTP said they might do this then that makes it ok... not.

Charter rewrites are too big as thing to be based solely on one parties campaign plank.

It was a major plank in the PTP party electoral platform.

The voters knew this and voted accordingly.

Besides, who in their right mind expects a coup-constitution to survive after an election. Never happenes.

Charter rewrites are too big for coupists, not for parties elected on the promise they will do it.

One is invalid, the other is not.

Not complicated.

[CalgaryII]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

Absolutely the correct and logical position,

but TIT.

Votes will ensue, once the electoral promise of Const. reform give voters the end-product.

[CalgaryII]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

Or a coup.

Or unilaterally taking back the PM job you have resigned from,

and then representing the country in the UN as if you were still the legal PM.

Torturing history to justify a coup is seen for what it is.

[CalgaryII]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

But coup-ists are OK

They are very good at constitutional reform, thereby protecting and justifying themselves.

The last charter WAS voted for by the people in a referendum.

Not legitimate as it occurred under the administration of a coup Government.

That is why the Nitarat proposals recommend all actions of the coup Govt. be repealed and re-considered under a Government representative of the voting public.

Edited February 23, 2012 by CalgaryII

[sparebox2]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

But coup-ists are OK

They are very good at constitutional reform, thereby protecting and justifying themselves.

The last charter WAS voted for by the people in a referendum.

Not legitimate as it occurred under the administration of a coup Government.

That is why the Nitarat proposals recommend all actions of the coup Govt. be repealed and re-considered under a Government representative of the voting public.

But Nitarat will likely be in jail for 112 soon.

[pimay11]

Red Shirts And Multicolored Shirts To Rally For And Against Charter Change

A positive indication of the effectiveness of Yingluck's reconciliation efforts.

.

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

For sure there are more pressing issues. Education, flood prevention, debt restructure to name a few. But these are all down the list. It is evident that the ruling party will put the Thai populace at risk of more violence and even worse in order to absolve Thaksin of his jail sentence and return his ill gotten gains. Sad but true.

[CalgaryII]

sparebox2, 323

But Nitarat will likely be in jail for 112 soon.

Nitirat is gospel for the UDD/RS rank and file.

Messing with them, is messing with the UDD/RS big time.

[CalgaryII]

Red Shirts And Multicolored Shirts To Rally For And Against Charter Change

A positive indication of the effectiveness of Yingluck's reconciliation efforts.

.

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

For sure there are more pressing issues. Education, flood prevention, debt restructure to name a few. But these are all down the list. It is evident that the ruling party will put the Thai populace at risk of more violence and even worse in order to absolve Thaksin of his jail sentence and return his ill gotten gains. Sad but true.

'Motherhood" is another pressing issue, but will not prevent Const. reform.

The current coup constitution is an existential threat to the Government, as it was designed to be by coup perps.

Efforts to reform it is not one-person focussed, as it was for the coup perps when they revised the constitution.

The rationale is quite clear and self-evident:

The present constitution does not support political parties but undermines them.

Under the constitution, procedures to create independent organisations and select their members lack public participation and go against the principle of democracy.

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

Moreover, the constitution is undemocratic as it resulted from the 2006 military coup.

The charter creates divisions among the public, which necessitates drawing up a new and a more democratic constitution.

Edited February 23, 2012 by CalgaryII

[Buchholz]

250 policemen deployed to keep security at Parliament

The Metropolitan Police deployed 250 police to keep security at Parliament Thursday when MPs and senators began deliberating three charter amendment bills.

A company of policemen or 150 officers were deployed to keep security outside Parliament to prevent possible clashes between red-shirt and multicolored shirt demonstrators.

The red-shirt people rally beside the Dusit Zoo in support of charter amendments while the multicolored group rally on the Uthong Nai Road to oppose the amendment.

And 100 other police officers were deployed to keep security inside the Parliament's compound.

-- The Nation 2012-02-23

[CalgaryII]

250 policemen deployed to keep security at parliament, #27^

With probably a national ratio of 100 - 1 (100 Red Shirts to 1 PAD....err multi-coloured) those PADites better be careful protesting in proximity of the Red Shirts.

Plus given the violent prone Red Shirts, as the R'song coupists would have you believe, even more trouble for the PADites.

Gulp!

[pimay11]

Red Shirts And Multicolored Shirts To Rally For And Against Charter Change

A positive indication of the effectiveness of Yingluck's reconciliation efforts.

.

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

For sure there are more pressing issues. Education, flood prevention, debt restructure to name a few. But these are all down the list. It is evident that the ruling party will put the Thai populace at risk of more violence and even worse in order to absolve Thaksin of his jail sentence and return his ill gotten gains. Sad but true.

RT@Aim_NT: Chalerm: I'm straightforward. I will bring Thaksin home. It depends on open chances and pol situation. I'll propose reconciliation bill soon

I rest my case!

[tlansford]

Food for thought on charter changes. A thorough survey of the Thai opinion done in 2009. Covers many issues.

http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/ThaiConstitutionReportenglish.pdf