English As Your Mother Tongue?

[Sing_Sling]

!

I speak 2 languages, English and rubbish.

But you do it so well!

Compliments will get you everywhere.

Lend us a tenner then!

[robblok]

My mother tongue is Dutch, but i do speak German, English, Thai (not enough), some French. I always thought many English were lazy learning other languages. But there are a fair amount of expats that speak good Thai who are English and i don't. So i adjusted that opinion.

[onionluke]

Where is the option for Scottish?

I agree that roughing someone up for their lack of Engiish is wrong, however!

Scottish? You mean Celtic? You grew up speaking that? Excellent . . . so, it Isn't English, right?

Celtic is a dead language with few words still in usage , car being one of them . Various Gaelic languages are , on the other hand , alive and used daily by fisher folk and the like along the Atlantic coast of western Europe .

[IanForbes]

I always get a laugh out of Thais who apologize for not speaking English fluently. With a big smile on my face I tell them they are smarter than me because I can only speak a tiny bit (nig noi) of Thai. That seems to make their day. Unless you use a language constantly it is very easy to forget it. When I was in university I took French language to a point where I was having dreams in French. But, that was a long time ago and have never spoken it since. Consequently, I have to think really hard just to make a simple sentence in French. My hearing is bad ever since I was in an explosion 50 years ago, and it's only gotten worse. I have to go into a totally quiet room if I want to speak on a cell phone. Consequently, I find it very hard to hear all the subtle differences in the Thai language.

[Kilgore Trout]

English is very easy to learn to a certain level where you can communicate any thought pretty easily and comprehensibly, easier than riding a bicycle. Someone who fails at this is either very lazy or an extreme narcissist.

Any language is easy to learn in the right environment.

Its the attitude of the listener that is important. Most English speaking people are very tolerant and supportive of people struggling to speak English.

I have seen Thais, Europeans etc. openly ridicule people trying to speak their language. Most English speakers would not do this, and beyond that, they would make an effort not to laugh as to offend someone when they make a funny mistake.

[PattayaParent]

Yeh, l was forced to learn French, l wonder why. Did they think at the time that the frogs were to become dominant. Perhaps they will but l will be under ground by then.

This was in preparation for when England invaded france again and installed the British monarch as the head of the country again....you need to be able to speak to the natives old chap...even if they do smell of garlic, wear onions around their necks and have funny little hats on..

French was at one time the language of international diplomacy, and such as the Tzars spoke French at Court rather than Russian. Don't you remember when the preamble in your passport about "Her Britannic Majesty requests and requires..." was in French as well as English. But nowadays apart from bits of Africa and Canada there's hardly anywhere outside France that speaks French.

And that's what annoys the French the most, the fact that English is now the 'Lingua Franca' of the world.

[StreetCowboy]

English is very easy to learn to a certain level where you can communicate any thought pretty easily and comprehensibly, easier than riding a bicycle. Someone who fails at this is either very lazy or an extreme narcissist.

Any language is easy to learn in the right environment.

Its the attitude of the listener that is important. Most English speaking people are very tolerant and supportive of people struggling to speak English.

I have seen Thais, Europeans etc. openly ridicule people trying to speak their language. Most English speakers would not do this, and beyond that, they would make an effort not to laugh as to offend someone when they make a funny mistake.

I think English is an easy language to speak badly - meaning that you can get your meaning across even with poor pronunciation, poor grammar and limited vocabulary. Chinese, on the other hand... There are so many homonyms, and so many words separated only by their tones...

SC

[Eff1n2ret]

English is very easy to learn to a certain level where you can communicate any thought pretty easily and comprehensibly, easier than riding a bicycle. Someone who fails at this is either very lazy or an extreme narcissist.

"..to a certain level.." may be true, but also of other languages, surely. I'm sure, for example, most Germans would be sympathetic to someone who says "der Hand" instead of "die Hand", and so on. But getting past pidgin, I pity non-English-speakers who have to sort out the correct pronunciation or spelling of 'rough', 'thought', 'cough', 'lough', 'plough', 'through', 'dough'.

[Naam]

my mother tongues are French and Swiss German, my "father tongue" is German, my preferred language to communicate is English because of its simple grammar which enables a peasant like me to make less mistakes than i'd make in any other language i "master".

by the way, this is not a joke!

[Sing_Sling]

Isn't it also Muttersprache . . . or are you saying you;re one of those mixed-up Swiss who are disgustingly good at languages!!!! Oh, and Schwitzerduetsch doesn't count!!!!

But yes, English is quite simple compared

[theblether]

Where is the option for Scottish?

I agree that roughing someone up for their lack of Engiish is wrong, however!

Scottish? You mean Celtic? You grew up speaking that? Excellent . . . so, it Isn't English, right?

Please note my avatar.......I am trying my best to not spit the dummy out

[Soutpeel]

Where is the option for Scottish?

I agree that roughing someone up for their lack of Engiish is wrong, however!

Scottish? You mean Celtic? You grew up speaking that? Excellent . . . so, it Isn't English, right?

no such language as Celtic anymore ...its a football team these days, think you are talking about gaelic, similar language to the Welsh, Irish and Breton's

The original Celts spoke German anyway.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Soutpeel

[onionluke]

Where is the option for Scottish?

I agree that roughing someone up for their lack of Engiish is wrong, however!

Scottish? You mean Celtic? You grew up speaking that? Excellent . . . so, it Isn't English, right?

no such language as Celtic anymore either...its a football team, think you are talking about gaelic, similar language to the Welsh, Irish and Breton's

The original Celts spoke German anyway..

Celtic was probably mire Hindustani when it started off travelling west .

[Kan Win]

English As Your Mother Tongue?

No it is not, neither my mother nor my father spoke it so I voted NO.

Mine was Polish, now only English.

Win

[StreetCowboy]

Where is the option for Scottish?

I agree that roughing someone up for their lack of Engiish is wrong, however!

Scottish? You mean Celtic? You grew up speaking that? Excellent . . . so, it Isn't English, right?

no such language as Celtic anymore ...its a football team these days, think you are talking about gaelic, similar language to the Welsh, Irish and Breton's

The original Celts spoke German anyway.

Scots was a language similar to English, but derived predominantly from Norse, as opposed to Anglo-Saxon or Danish, as far as I know. When James VI became King of England the court decamped to London and started pretending to be posh and talking English and holding their pinkies out and everything, <deleted> doylies, the lot. So I believe.

SC

[Beechboy]

It is an interesting topic. There is a need for an "international language as an aid to everything from diplomacy to trade to travel.

Once it was French but as Britain became more and more important, eventually to be the most dominant country in the Worlld, English took over.

The emergence of the super-power that is America cemented this through everything from Hollywood to Elvis. Wars and trade and occupation contributed much.

The "pop" boom of the sixties that began in the UK, meant that young kids throughout the World hung onto every word of their favourite's English lyrics. I know one Belgian English teacher, who used the Beatles music as an aid, often playing their records in class whilst the kids in front of him sang along from a word-sheet in front of them. He called it the ideal motivation leading to sublimival learning.

It is a lucky situation for us native English language speakers who travel, although it is nothing to be proud of to state that the English themselves rate poorly on the list of countries whose inhabitants speak a second language. Worse still, many English get embarrassed trying to speak a foreign tongue and get ridiculed by their compatriots. Even worse than that there is a type of English person who goes abroad and expects everybody to speak his language, getting angry when they don't.

I suppose that I have rther simplified the whole thing in the summary above, but diplomacy, political power, trading convenience and cultural influences have led to the World Language that is English.

I would not have thought that, with all it's irregularits and complexities, it is a particularly easy language to learn, but then when you are exposed to another language in various ways from an early age, then it sinks in.

The average bar girl (and most young town-dwelling Thais) speak goodish English. Few of them were taught it in school. It wasn't acquired by root learning more from surrounding influences.

To the point, intolerance of bad expression and grammar by non-native speakers on this Board is bad, but it works two ways. If the poster's English useage is dire enough to be virtually incomprehensible, then he should resist posting until his skills improve.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Beechboy

[melvinmelvin]

Yeh, l was forced to learn French, l wonder why. Did they think at the time that the frogs were to become dominant. Perhaps they will but l will be under ground by then.

This was in preparation for when England invaded france again and installed the British monarch as the head of the country again....you need to be able to speak to the natives old chap...even if they do smell of garlic, wear onions around their necks and have funny little hats on..

French was at one time the language of international diplomacy, and such as the Tzars spoke French at Court rather than Russian. Don't you remember when the preamble in your passport about "Her Britannic Majesty requests and requires..." was in French as well as English. But nowadays apart from bits of Africa and Canada there's hardly anywhere outside France that speaks French.

rather large bits of Africa I'd say, north (the Arab states) and west Africa use French quite a lot

belgium

switzerland

the odd island in the Pacific

French is still the reference language in most UN agencies

and if you look at the number of states party to Francophon, its quite massiv

[pattayadingo]

To lambast a person who speaks English as their 2nd language is appalling. The language police on here should be ashamed of their dictatorial little selves.

Agreed...We should all spend a little time in the week educating our less fortunate TV members in the joys of the English language, I am of course referring to those members who hail from places like Scotland, US, Wales, Liverpool, Newcastle and finally those poor unfortunate soles who come from Birmingham...

Way aye man. We'd best be gannin doon the rood to school tamarra to learn this English

[theblether]

Where is the option for Scottish?

I agree that roughing someone up for their lack of Engiish is wrong, however!

Scottish? You mean Celtic? You grew up speaking that? Excellent . . . so, it Isn't English, right?

Right this time I'll answer you seriously.......it's one thing to know the words.......it's something else to know the context and culture.

Indulge me for a minute or three here........

You asked a perfectly good question but within those very short words you brought up several different issues. These issues apply to virtually every country in some way. I know it is relevant to Thailand so here goes........

The Scottish culture is Celtic in origin, we are very proud of that. The pronunciation is "Keltic". Within Scotland we have effectively three recognised languages, those being Gaelic ( which is the one you were referring to I believe), English, and one known as the Auld Scots Tongue.

In a country of a population of just over 5 million, only about 60,000 now speak Gaelic, and the majority of those have their roots in the Island communities. Naturally English is spoken by the rest of us, but there are recognized dialects such as the "Doric" from Aberdeenshire. Dialect is different from slang. I can honestly say that someone speaking Doric at full tilt can easily lose me, and I know a lot of you will be thinking I've got a cheek saying that as some of our Scots vernacular is unintelligible to you at the best of times.

The Auld Scots Tongue is a different beast altogether, most Scots will still use words from that language, however the people who used it fluently in every day life are dwindling fast. For an example of the difference between the Scots Tongue and English have a look at this work from our National Poet ( in Scots National Bard ) Robert Burns.

http://www.worldburnsclub.com/poems/translations/auld_lang_syne.htm

You can see there the differences in the language.

Anyway, going back to you saying you speak "Celtic", at this point several Scots Thaivisa members dived below their desks. Yes, I am from a Celtic culture, and I am proud of it, so in that context you are correct. However in modern Scottish culture the word Celtic has been hijacked by Celtic football club, and it has taken on a life of it's own.

Many times I have stood in bars all over the world and been asked "What are you, Celtic or Rangers?", and this question comes at me from people of all nationalities. The truthful answer for me is Motherwell. At this point your eyes are glazing over and you are thinking this guy is daft, ( Auld Scots word for stupid ). In Scottish culture, by answering that question as either Rangers or Celtic, I am pigeon holing myself as to my religious beliefs, some political beliefs and allegiances etc etc. How I identify myself can result in the perfect stranger asking me the question either taking me on as a friend or immediately regarding me with contempt I'm not getting into that the reasons why though.

So here lies the dichotomy of language and culture, we might know the words, but we don't understand the context and culture.

Let's bring that back to Thailand now, Red shirt and Yellow shirt. We know as we have knowledge of Thailand the implications of those two colours in Thailand. That is not only because we know the meaning of the words, it's also because we know the culture too. So to that extent you can never truly be fluent in a language until you are fluent in the culture.

Within Thailand there are so many dialects at play too, Isaan, Northern/Lao etc, I am no expert on this in Thai terms but I know there are people who are members of this website who have spent years trying to become expert on Thai language and culture. One of the problems we all have is that the language can grow and change so quickly, depending on TV influences, technology etc. This applies to every language. 20 years ago words such as internet, email, etc were not heard of by the majority. In fact the first time I heard the phrase email was in 1992, and I had to stop the guy who was speaking and ask him what he was talking about.

As far as the OP is concerned, I appreciate people who try to converse or write in English. It doesn't matter to me if they misspell, as long as they give me enough to get an understanding then that is fine, and if I can help without denigrating that is fine too. However there are times when the posts are comical so that is fair game, done in the right spirit.

Anyway, that's enough of that......I'm away to pick a fight with an Englishman.

[theblether]

Stay on your side of the wall...

Right you, what's that supposed to mean HUH???? HUH????

[theblether]

To lambast a person who speaks English as their 2nd language is appalling. The language police on here should be ashamed of their dictatorial little selves.

Agreed...We should all spend a little time in the week educating our less fortunate TV members in the joys of the English language, I am of course referring to those members who hail from places like Scotland, US, Wales, Liverpool, Newcastle and finally those poor unfortunate soles who come from Birmingham...

I've heard of people being like wet fish, but flatfish? Sorry, but I couldn't resist that!

You tell him......there is a beautiful Schadenfreude about someone lecturing us in the art of English and getting the spelling wrong

I bet you soutpeel is furious with himself

[StreetCowboy]

To lambast a person who speaks English as their 2nd language is appalling. The language police on here should be ashamed of their dictatorial little selves.

Agreed...We should all spend a little time in the week educating our less fortunate TV members in the joys of the English language, I am of course referring to those members who hail from places like Scotland, US, Wales, Liverpool, Newcastle and finally those poor unfortunate soles who come from Birmingham...

I've heard of people being like wet fish, but flatfish? Sorry, but I couldn't resist that!

You tell him......there is a beautiful Schadenfreude about someone lecturing us in the art of English and getting the spelling wrong

I bet you soutpeel is furious with himself

Soles come from Northampton. You guys don't know cobblers.

SC

EDIT: Though as I noted elsewhere, my last pair were of Chinese manufacture to a Street company, and your docs may be from Thailand.

[Sing_Sling]

Indulge me for a minute or three here........

You asked a perfectly good question but within those very short words you brought up several different issues. These issues apply to virtually every country in some way. I know it is relevant to Thailand so here goes........

The Scottish culture is Celtic in origin, we are very proud of that. The pronunciation is "Keltic". Within Scotland we have effectively three recognised languages, those being Gaelic ( which is the one you were referring to I believe), English, and one known as the Auld Scots Tongue.

As far as the OP is concerned, I appreciate people who try to converse or write in English. It doesn't matter to me if they misspell, as long as they give me enough to get an understanding then that is fine, and if I can help without denigrating that is fine too. However there are times when the posts are comical so that is fair game, done in the right spirit.

Anyway, that's enough of that......I'm away to pick a fight with an Englishman.

Thank you for the history lesson, greatly appreciated - one of the amazing things about language is its history. I can understand the Gaelic bit (yes, that's what I meant by Celtic and I feel a right idiot mixing up the two) but can't see why the Irish can still speak Gaelic but the Scots can't . . . is it because Ireland, as in Eire, is independent and Scotland is . . . umm . . . not? (Yet)

The one that fascinates me the most among the foggy isles languages is Welsh . . . odd, odder, oddest!

I absolutely agree that people whose mother tongue is not English and who have the confidence to post on a forum consisting of mainly (80% so far) English native speakers should be applauded, not derided for their linguistic shortcomings . . . their content/opinion yes if it is warranted, but definitely not their language - quite pathetic, really

Edited February 29, 2012 by Sing_Sling

[theblether]

Soles come from Northampton. You guys don't know cobblers.

SC

EDIT: Though as I noted elsewhere, my last pair were of Chinese manufacture to a Street company, and your docs may be from Thailand.

Your getting a bit obsessed with your footwear and country of manufacture SC............has the medication worn off?

[Soutpeel]

I bet you soutpeel is furious with himself

Yes he is....

[theblether]

Indulge me for a minute or three here........

You asked a perfectly good question but within those very short words you brought up several different issues. These issues apply to virtually every country in some way. I know it is relevant to Thailand so here goes........

The Scottish culture is Celtic in origin, we are very proud of that. The pronunciation is "Keltic". Within Scotland we have effectively three recognised languages, those being Gaelic ( which is the one you were referring to I believe), English, and one known as the Auld Scots Tongue.

As far as the OP is concerned, I appreciate people who try to converse or write in English. It doesn't matter to me if they misspell, as long as they give me enough to get an understanding then that is fine, and if I can help without denigrating that is fine too. However there are times when the posts are comical so that is fair game, done in the right spirit.

Anyway, that's enough of that......I'm away to pick a fight with an Englishman.

Thank you for the history lesson, greatly appreciated - one of the amazing things about language is its history. I can understand the Gaelic bit (yes, that's what I meant by Celtic and I feel a right idiot mixing up the two) but can't see why the Irish can still speak Gaelic but the Scots can't . . . is it because Ireland, as in Eire, is independent and Scotland is . . . umm . . . not? (Yet)

The one that fascinates me the most among the foggy isles languages is Welsh . . . odd, odder, oddest!

You know a bizarre thing ( in my opinion )......the Welsh and Irish are slavishly trying to protect the Celtic language and we Scots can't be bothered.

Why?..........Gaelic has always tended to be a Highlands and Islands language, even a thousand years ago the Lowland Scots spoke a variation of the Auld Scots Tongue. The vast majority of Scots are Lowlanders so Gaelic is alien to us.

[StreetCowboy]

Soles come from Northampton. You guys don't know cobblers.

SC

EDIT: Though as I noted elsewhere, my last pair were of Chinese manufacture to a Street company, and your docs may be from Thailand.

Your getting a bit obsessed with your footwear and country of manufacture SC............has the medication worn off?

It wasn't me that started the conversation about bits of shoes, and I thought I would share my experience and what I had learnt. I've been off the medication for more than two weeks now, partly as a cost-saving measure, to pay for the decoration. Then I'm hoping to get some tennents in my flat...

SC

[Soutpeel]

The one that fascinates me the most among the foggy isles languages is Welsh . . . odd, odder, oddest!

Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic, Welsh and Benton all have their roots in the same Germanic language.....as pointed our earlier the orginal celts were German

[StreetCowboy]

Indulge me for a minute or three here........

You asked a perfectly good question but within those very short words you brought up several different issues. These issues apply to virtually every country in some way. I know it is relevant to Thailand so here goes........

The Scottish culture is Celtic in origin, we are very proud of that. The pronunciation is "Keltic". Within Scotland we have effectively three recognised languages, those being Gaelic ( which is the one you were referring to I believe), English, and one known as the Auld Scots Tongue.

As far as the OP is concerned, I appreciate people who try to converse or write in English. It doesn't matter to me if they misspell, as long as they give me enough to get an understanding then that is fine, and if I can help without denigrating that is fine too. However there are times when the posts are comical so that is fair game, done in the right spirit.

Anyway, that's enough of that......I'm away to pick a fight with an Englishman.

Thank you for the history lesson, greatly appreciated - one of the amazing things about language is its history. I can understand the Gaelic bit (yes, that's what I meant by Celtic and I feel a right idiot mixing up the two) but can't see why the Irish can still speak Gaelic but the Scots can't . . . is it because Ireland, as in Eire, is independent and Scotland is . . . umm . . . not? (Yet)

The one that fascinates me the most among the foggy isles languages is Welsh . . . odd, odder, oddest!

You know a bizarre thing ( in my opinion )......the Welsh and Irish are slavishly trying to protect the Celtic language and we Scots can't be bothered.

Why?..........Gaelic has always tended to be a Highlands and Islands language, even a thousand years ago the Lowland Scots spoke a variation of the Auld Scots Tongue. The vast majority of Scots are Lowlanders so Gaelic is alien to us.

The Welsh only speak it when there's Englishmen in the pub.

SC

[Soutpeel]

The Welsh only speak it when there's Englishmen in the pub.

SC

Or calling their sheep for a bit of foreplay of course