Fire On 7th Floor Of FICO Building, Asoke Area: Bangkok

[animatic]

Lets hope the structure is up to the job!

5555555 That's a good one! Thai's don't have any building codes and any they do have are so poor that they have no benefit to safety.

Just had a house built and they installed ground wire in the receptacles, BUT, no earth ground. So effectively there isn't any ground in the receptacles. Heck this is a country where they think it is acceptable for 70 Million people to wipe their butts and then just put the dirty tissue in a waste basket. And later some Thai will come get the waste basket and dump it on the side of the road because the concept of waste management hasn't really been addressed in this country.

Not so, there are building codes, but some people buy their way around them.

There is a 1992 code for tall buildings, but ones prior have been partly exempt or ignored,

Fico is on such example. Though this fire may cause a reappraisal of said exemptions.

Well at least some are talking of one.

[samsiam]

Fico owns Nana Plaza right ??

Hope not a sign of things to come.

[whybother]

Once again, Bangkok firefighters are well trained and disciplined. The last thing you need at a fire is a charge by an untrained, undisciplined rabble.

Your post above makes no sense... The issue was whether the BKK firefighters dispatched to the building should have done what they did...which was stand around and wait outside... or should have forced their way into the building to more quickly and directly battle the fire.

I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to "an untrained, undisciplined rabble."

I've worked with professional firefighters in the U.S. for many years. When there's a fire and/or lives are in danger, they find a way to do their jobs, even if it means causing some incidental structural damage in order to prevent a fire from burning through a potentially occupied building.

If you're driving a friend's car, get into a serious traffic accident and are trapped inside the car, do you think the firefighters are going to stand around waiting until they can contact the car's owner for permission to get you out? Or are they going to get out the "jaws of life" and cut you out of the car, if that's what is required.

There's effectively no functioning civil justice system in Thailand anyway... But even in the West, when was the last time you heard about a Fire Department getting sued for cutting someone out of a crashed car or forcing their way into a locked building in order to fight a fire?

You're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.

It doesn't matter how well trained the firefighters in Thailand are. If they don't have the authority to break down doors, then they have to wait for permission, no matter how stupid it sounds.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In practice, who said they didn't have the authority...if they choose to exercise it, Toto???

Since when do the Thai police, by way of analogy, ever worry about what they have the authority to do or not do... They're wearing uniforms, so they do what they please. Government work has its privileges.

[whybother]

In practice, who said they didn't have the authority...if they choose to exercise it, Toto???

Since when do the Thai police, by way of analogy, ever worry about what they have the authority to do or not do... They're wearing uniforms, so they do what they please. Government work has its privileges.

They're not the police, and if they had the authority they wouldn't have had to wait for permission.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[rice555]

Hello All, didn't they have the guy that sleeps in the box?

You know, a watchman, or do they do runners like truck/bus/van

drivers after an accident?

rice555

[webfact]

UPDATE

Hot spots inside burnt high-rise hosed down

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Hot white fumes broke out yesterday on three floors of Fico Place building which had already caught fire, prompting firemen to spray water to wet the areas and prevent them from developing into fires.

The fumes poured from 9th, 10th and 11th floors at around 7.30 am, before firemen, now stationed inside the 13storey building, sprayed the entire floors with water to cool them down.

Firemen from two stations are now manned in the building to keep watching for possible secondary fires, after they initially had problems putting out the blaze when the fire broke out Saturday afternoon, because the first fire engines arriving at the scene have not had high enough ladder.

Before those with high ladders and water jettison boom reaching higher floors arrived, the first was spreading to three floors above the 7 th floor.

Noentry orders are posted around the first floor of the building, located off Soi Sukhumvit 12, in Thai and English languages to notify tenants working for 30 companies which rented the Fico Place building.

The Noentry order remains effective until a thorough inspection by fire safety officials, which begins today, is completed at a date not scheduled, said Sajja Khongtrong, director of Vadhana district office, whose jurisdiction covers the building.

"The building’s structure has not been much affected," said Deputy Bangkok governor Theerachon Manomaiphibool after inspecting the building yesterday. The 7th floor, which is the source of the fire, has not been much damaged, he said.

"There are burn marks from a desk with a computer on," he said. "The fire possibly spreaded to 8th to 11th floors through glasses window with tints, which were inflamable and fed the fire, he added.

Police will soon interview tenants and workers who rent the office space in the building about electrical devices or damage to their properties.

Relying on crime scene investigation results, police will later determine what caused the fires, and if it stemmed from human errors, police would identify the persons responsible, a police source said.

Theerachon said owners of tall buildings in Bangkok built before 1992, before a current law governing tall buildings and construction is in effect, would be encouraged to install sprinklers, which is a requirement imposed by this law.

A survey will be carried out to check how many buidlings were constructed before 1992, and lowcost installation of sprinklers would be offerred and incentivised by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), he added.

-- The Nation 2012-03-05

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A survey will be carried out to check how many buidlings were constructed before 1992, and lowcost installation of sprinklers would be offerred and incentivised by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), he added.

Are they just thinking about this notion now in the wake of the FICO fire.... Or, they've had that kind of program in place for all these past years, but never actually done anything with it?

Since they're having to do such a survey now of presumably older high-rise buildings that lack sprinklers, it would be interesting to see if they said exactly the same thing after all the other past fires in high-rise buildings that didn't have any sprinklers.

Ten years from now, the authorities probably will be saying the same thing when another one of these fires occurs.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[haveaniceday]

Nice Inspected Sprinkler system.

[samsiam]

Or, they've had that kind of program in place for all these past years, but never actually done anything with it?

how dare you be so cynical....there are threads about just this elsewhere you know.

Of course something was done with it.....someone was paid to do nothing about it.

[mtnthai]

i have not posted here in ages, and one reason is i grew tierd the the ranting back and forth about who should stay and who should leave, and who really understands and loves this country and its people. also the moralizing about what kind of farng one may be, or where they choose to live in TH having some sort of connotation good or bad. that said, i still come here to TVF toget the news and most inportantly, opinions, hopefully from learned board membes with knowlege, experience and expertise.

so .... here are my opinons and views and also some "hearsay" i have been told over the years.

DISCLAIMER: if i am wrong about some of the issues i mention please simply enlighten me to the truth of the matter and dopn't bash me as i am already telling you this is what i have heard and may not be accurate. i am seeking clarification.

i was told long ago (been here since 1988) that much of the fire department is made up of guys who wanted to be policemen but they flunked that exam and were offerred jobs as fire fighters. if so, what does that say about the intelligence level of those entrusted to operate this important service?

second, i was also under the impression that the fire department is a part of the police department and in many respects they are empowered to do what's necessary.

third, i was also told by other long-term expats, and quite a few Thai people, that many times the fire department shows up and will not start to work until given a "tip" to do so.

fourth, it is already stated by the TH authorities in charge that there were no sprinkler heads although the rest of the sytem seems to be there. law or not, this is a serious flaw that speaks volumes.

final point, and not a conspiracy theory just mentioning it as a possibility as all things are possible: if the owners wanted the old builidng down then a Saturday when it is closed would have been the perfect time to do that. and, IF THAT WERE THE CASE, they would have most likely availed themselves of the "local system" and called ahead and asked them to delay arrival, of course for a "tip". NOT LIKELY, BUT ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN ANY COUNTRY, AND REGARDLESS OF THE NATIONALITY OF THE OWNERS, but we have seen crazier things happen here in the past.

sooooooooooooooo, can anyone address these points and either confirm or repudiate them for me please?

thanks.

[EyesWideOpen]

Interesting thought about paying the fire department to put out fires... It is well known here that you have to pay the police to solve crimes, so it sort of makes sense you would have to pay the fire department before they did anything at your building in flames. Hey wait a minute !!! Maybe that is what the firemen were waiting for when they first showed up at the building. .... Nah, that is too bitter even for me... :-)

There must be a lot of nervous farangs in Bangkok now living in high rise condo buildings, wondering if their building has an operational sprinkler system.

[Roj]

i have not posted here in ages, and one reason is i grew tierd the the ranting back and forth about who should stay and who should leave, and who really understands and loves this country and its people. also the moralizing about what kind of farng one may be, or where they choose to live in TH having some sort of connotation good or bad. that said, i still come here to TVF toget the news and most inportantly, opinions, hopefully from learned board membes with knowlege, experience and expertise.

so .... here are my opinons and views and also some "hearsay" i have been told over the years.

DISCLAIMER: if i am wrong about some of the issues i mention please simply enlighten me to the truth of the matter and dopn't bash me as i am already telling you this is what i have heard and may not be accurate. i am seeking clarification.

i was told long ago (been here since 1988) that much of the fire department is made up of guys who wanted to be policemen but they flunked that exam and were offerred jobs as fire fighters. if so, what does that say about the intelligence level of those entrusted to operate this important service?

second, i was also under the impression that the fire department is a part of the police department and in many respects they are empowered to do what's necessary.

third, i was also told by other long-term expats, and quite a few Thai people, that many times the fire department shows up and will not start to work until given a "tip" to do so.

fourth, it is already stated by the TH authorities in charge that there were no sprinkler heads although the rest of the sytem seems to be there. law or not, this is a serious flaw that speaks volumes.

final point, and not a conspiracy theory just mentioning it as a possibility as all things are possible: if the owners wanted the old builidng down then a Saturday when it is closed would have been the perfect time to do that. and, IF THAT WERE THE CASE, they would have most likely availed themselves of the "local system" and called ahead and asked them to delay arrival, of course for a "tip". NOT LIKELY, BUT ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN ANY COUNTRY, AND REGARDLESS OF THE NATIONALITY OF THE OWNERS, but we have seen crazier things happen here in the past.

sooooooooooooooo, can anyone address these points and either confirm or repudiate them for me please?

thanks.

Not intelligent enough to get in the police? Nonsense. Demanding a tip before starting work? Nonsense. You question the intelligence of the firefighters but it`s those know all expats who you refer to who, perhaps, need an IQ check. You only have to read through this thread to see someone desperately looking for anything that they can use to spout disreputable rubbish about the professional Bangkok firemen. For some expats it`s become a hobby to criticise everything Thai. There are lots of things in Thailand that can irritate Westerners but that`s the way the Thais live in their own country. If you live here life is easier if you learn to accept their ways - it`s a different culture, as you know, having been here for so long. Why not visit a fire station in Bangkok and tell them you are interested in their work? You will be welcomed and given a tour. You can then make your own mind up about these men.

[Roj]

Once again, Bangkok firefighters are well trained and disciplined. The last thing you need at a fire is a charge by an untrained, undisciplined rabble.

Your post above makes no sense... The issue was whether the BKK firefighters dispatched to the building should have done what they did...which was stand around and wait outside... or should have forced their way into the building to more quickly and directly battle the fire.

I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to "an untrained, undisciplined rabble."

I've worked with professional firefighters in the U.S. for many years. When there's a fire and/or lives are in danger, they find a way to do their jobs, even if it means causing some incidental structural damage in order to prevent a fire from burning through a potentially occupied building.

If you're driving a friend's car, get into a serious traffic accident and are trapped inside the car, do you think the firefighters are going to stand around waiting until they can contact the car's owner for permission to get you out? Or are they going to get out the "jaws of life" and cut you out of the car, if that's what is required.

There's effectively no functioning civil justice system in Thailand anyway... But even in the West, when was the last time you heard about a Fire Department getting sued for cutting someone out of a crashed car or forcing their way into a locked building in order to fight a fire?

I WAS a professional firefighter for many years at one of London`s busiest fire stations! I can assure you there have been instances of firemen being sued in the course of their duties. One at my own station, a driver, was sued and also prosecuted when he collided with a car on the way to a fire. He drove through a red traffic light and was charged with dangerous driving. In the nanny state UK a risk assessment is supposed to be made at some types of incident. This is how the story of the man who drowned in 3 feet of water because the police and fire service weren`t allowed to enter the lake came to light. What happens in the States has absolutely no bearing on the way other countries conduct their own business. Cutting someone out of a car? Of course you don`t need permission, stop being pedantic. People TRAPPED inside a burning building? Don`t be daft, of course the firemen will go in. Firemen in Bangkok and indeed London fight fires from INSIDE a building if at all possible. Firemen operate as a team and know their jobs better than you do. No offence intended.

[MEL1]

Once again, Bangkok firefighters are well trained and disciplined. The last thing you need at a fire is a charge by an untrained, undisciplined rabble.

... But even in the West, when was the last time you heard about a Fire Department getting sued for cutting someone out of a crashed car or forcing their way into a locked building in order to fight a fire?

You just gave me a great idea!

-mel.

[belg]

and i always tought public place should have sprinklers, the type that actually works, not the ones just for show

[webfact]

INSURANCE

Fico Place insured for Bt230mn

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Fico Place, the office building on Asoke Road which caught fire on Saturday, was insured for a sum of Bt230 million by Generali Thailand, according to the Office of Insurance Commission.

OIC Secretary-General Pravej Ong-artsithikul said on Monday that the office has contacted tenants for other insurance policies and rushed for the main insurance firm’s site inspection, for loss evaluation and compensation payment.

He added that the fire was unfortunate, but the insurance coverage should ensure that some losses would be covered.

-- The Nation 2012-03-05

[webfact]

Engineering institute confirms Fico Place building structure still sound and renovations should take 60 days /TANN

[MEL1]

It was a set up! I know the owner of the building, and I know the owner of several businesses within the building.

Maybe they came to a concensus, or maybe the rent payer got pissed off.

I CAN tell you this much though - IT WASN'T AN ACCIDENT!

So where would one go from here, with an investigation? 20,000 or 40,000 baht? laughing smilie!

-mel.

[witsawakorn]

Isn't it amazing that so many comments already criticise Thai standards.

If you don't like it, here's an idea: go home.

Have some sense and compassion.

Quite!

However, commenting on safety regulations or the lack of same might eventually mean that same would be revised.

Telling someone to stop commenting and advising to go home is not really the way.

Have some sense and compassion?

Indeed for the victims compassion, but definitely not for those who think that having safety regulations is just hindering the making of money.

And about sense, ah........

Fair comment but it seems clear to me that the people commenting on safety regs have no idea what they are and just make assumptions without any knowledge of the subject. For example Power Plant in Thailand are built to NFPA standards ( NFPA 850 to be precise) I somehow doubt that many posters would assume that The age of the building is relevant too since it can only be built to standards in force at the time of construction. Surely we should wait to find out the cause and final damage before commenting on lack of standards or don't the facts matter?

If you don't it here, go home. ZZZzzzzzzzz. Wish I had one baht for every time a farang living in an upcountry country village posted that..... :-)

But back to the topic at hand. Watch all the news media carefully. There will never be a follow up story about this fire, why it happened, and whether or not there were sprinklers... It will all quietly fade away, so no one will lose face. It is the nature of news here, which someone referred to as like a brushfire. Lots of fire, smoke and action at the time of the event, and then afterwards nothing... Follow up stories with more information would be able to pinpoint blame. But that is not accepted here.

The problem with trying to make predictions about Thailand by applying overly simplistic stereotypes is that they have a habit of proving to be wrong.That's why I was able to learn from one the English language papers today that:

1) The building was built before the law requiring sprinkler systems in high rises was brought in in 1992

2) The floor that caught fire first had recently been rewired.

3) The fire spread quickly due to the plastic UV block film that was applied on the glass on the inside.

Who really wants to know more given that nobody was killed or hurt?

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[SteeleJoe]

...i was told long ago (been here since 1988) that much of the fire department is made up of guys who wanted to be policemen but they flunked that exam and were offerred jobs as fire fighters. if so, what does that say about the intelligence level of those entrusted to operate this important service?

second, i was also under the impression that the fire department is a part of the police department and in many respects they are empowered to do what's necessary.

third, i was also told by other long-term expats, and quite a few Thai people, that many times the fire department shows up and will not start to work until given a "tip" to do so....

thanks.

All of this used to be (allegedly) so. The story was that the fire department wound up with guys who wanted to be cops but couldn't, and because many who want to be cops want to be so in part (if not primarily or even exclusively) because of the opportunity to enrich oneself, they were disgruntled at not having the moneymaking opportunities of their brethren in brown ad were frequently not motivated by what one would hope would motivate a firefighter.

In other words, it is/was unlike say the US, where many, perhaps most, Firefighters are doing it because they (altruistically) want to serve and or (egotistically) want to be heroes or a (most often) combination of both (I speak as one who has/had relatives in the FDNY)...

I have heard this from Thai cops back in the day and I have sen it written about by Thai journalists. However it is my understanding that the Fire Department is no longer part of the Royal Thai Police...how or if that changed things I can't say...

[webfact]

related topic

Damaged Bangkok FICO Place building covered by Bt230m fire insurance policy

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....surance-policy/