Bangkok's Grand Park Avenue Hotel Did Not Have An 'Adequate' Sprinkler System: Fire

[webfact]

Hotel did not have an 'adequate' sprinkler system

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- In the wake of a recent deadly hotel fire, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) will complete the inspection of all big buildings in the capital by yearend.

The BMA has already set up 50 teams for the purpose and is planning to hire certified inspection firms to help as well.

On Thursday night, a blaze erupted inside the banquet hall of Grand Park Avenue Hotel on Sukhumvit Soi 22, causing one death and hospitalising more than 20 others, most of whom were foreign hotel guests. All of the victims have suffered from smoke inhalation, and at press time, at least one had slipped into a coma.

Ongoing investigation suggests that an inadequate sprinkler system might have been responsible for the blaze not being brought under control soon enough. Firemen and volunteers spent more than half an hour to put out the fire.

"There were no sprinklers where the fire broke out, though there are sprinklers in other areas. So, we suspect that the affected area might have been modified from the original plan," Deputy Bangkok Governor Thirachon Manomaipiboon said.

Thong Lor Police Station superintendent Pol Colonel Rathasak Raksalam said yesterday that police would determine the cause of the fire, though he said the BMA needed to see if the hotel had violated the 1992 Building Control Act.

The Act requires that a firesprinkler system be installed in buildings with more than seven floors.

Grand Park Avenue has operated as a highrise building and features 221 rooms.

According to Thirachon, the failure to build or keep buildings in the condition stated in approved plans is punishable by a jail term of up to three months, a oneoff fine of up to Bt60,000 plus a daily fine of up to Bt10,000 until the adjustments are made.

Bangkok City Council chairman Suttichai Weerakulsunthorn said that though the Building Control Act was applicable to buildings constructed from 1992 onwards, he would ask the owners of all other big buildings to comply with safety standards as prescribed by the Act.

Bangkok Councilor Pipat Larpprathana said that if building owners refused to cooperate, the BMA would inform the public that their facilities did not meet safety standards.

"In that case, it will be difficult for their facilities to attract tenants," Pipat said. "So, I think the private sector should be willing to cooperate."

Suttichai disclosed that the BMA might consider buying a 20seat helicopter to boost its fireextinguishing and rescue capabilities.

"A highrise building is required to have a helipad," he pointed out.

-- The Nation 2012-03-10

[Crushdepth]

What a surprise.

[laurentbkk]

if sprinklers were not "adequate", what they were there for ? decoration ? This is insane .... I hope the owner of the hotel will be send to court for obvious negligence in terms of security.

[EyesWideOpen]

Let's see. There have been two recent high rise fires, and neither one appears to have had a sprinkler system. I love the phraseology used in this case, " appears to be inadequate". I would think that sprinkler systems are like being pregnant, you either are pregnant or you are not, you either have a sprinkler system, or you do not..

Also the story hedges around whether or not this building was built before or after 1992 when the sprinkler law for high rise buildings came into effect. Maybe a hiso owner ?? This fact would seem to be integral to the story.

I am amazed that these buildings are able to get insurance. If I was an insurance company, I would not touch these buildings without sprinklers with a ten foot pole.......

[jalansanitwong]

I dont know why we bother discussing safety issues on this or any forum. Faulty swimming pool lights, faulty or no sprinklers in hotels and sharp objects protruding everywhere you walk in Thailand.

It doesnt matter. Nothing will change here because thats how Thai's like it.

[airconsult]

But when we redecorated..... the sprinklers didn't look pretty!!!!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Suttichai disclosed that the BMA might consider buying a 20seat helicopter to boost its fire extinguishing and rescue capabilities.

The BKK Fire Department doesn't have helicopters available to it??? Or operate any of its own choppers?

I'm not sure what kind of "fire extinguishing" role a Fire Department helicopter would serve in a dense urban environment like Bangkok. But a helicopter definitely can/could assist with high-rise building rescue and med-evac operations as well as help with spotting and command and control.

Edited March 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[GentlemanJim]

if sprinklers were not "adequate", what they were there for ? decoration ? This is insane .... I hope the owner of the hotel will be send to court for obvious negligence in terms of security.

My wife used to work in a resort/hotel. The owner bought sprinkler heads and had them screwed into the ceilings. They were not connected to anything, just looked good!

With all the tourists that come here, the hotels should have to have an annual certification by the fire department or a certified company,which would not only include checks on fire extinguishers and exits but also a pressure test on sprinkler systems. Fat chance.

[GentlemanJim]

Suttichai disclosed that the BMA might consider buying a 20seat helicopter to boost its fire extinguishing and rescue capabilities.

The BKK Fire Department doesn't have helicopters available to it??? Or operate any of its own choppers?

I'm not sure what kind of "fire extinguishing" role a Fire Department helicopter would serve in a dense urban environment like Bangkok. But a helicopter definitely can/could assist with high-rise building rescue and med-evac operations as well as help with spotting and command and control.

The helicopter will never happen. A heli that size would cost millions, plus the maintenance set up/pilots/crew/training/fuel/storage blah blah blah. All the military need to do in the event of a high rise fire is have an order/procedure that allows military aid to the civil emergency forces and job done, trained SAR crews, maintained helicopters and if budget books needed balancing the charge for such a service on a one by one basis would be minimal compared to establishing a dedicated service.

[daninthai]

Promises will be made and nothing will be done. There would be a lot less unnecessary confusion and wasted time if authorities would just come out and tell the truth. "Look people. We really don't care. Just accept the dangers and shut up."

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The helicopter will never happen. A heli that size would cost millions, plus the maintenance set up/pilots/crew/training/fuel/storage blah blah blah. All the military need to do in the event of a high rise fire is have an order/procedure that allows military aid to the civil emergency forces and job done, trained SAR crews, maintained helicopters and if budget books needed balancing the charge for such a service on a one by one basis would be minimal compared to establishing a dedicated service.

I was thinking along the same lines... It's not like the Thai Army is short of helicopters, and presumably they have some deployed around BKK for various reasons... No reason why there couldn't be some kind of mutual aid arrangement set up.

Though in a Fire Department use scenario, they'd have to be available pretty much on short notice around the clock... It's not like their use could be scheduled in advance, so that might be a problem. Like, Hey, we need the helicopter now.. Ooops....sorry... the chopper crew is out for the night at a karaoke pub...

The other problem, of course, is that the Army has had its own problems lately crashing quite a few of its own helicopters... Bad enough when they go down in unpopulated areas upcountry... But you really don't want one of them crashing into a urban BKK neighborhood.

On second thought, maybe they'd better stick with the water bucket brigades...

[Pib]

Suttichai disclosed that the BMA might consider buying a 20seat helicopter to boost its fireextinguishing and rescue capabilities.

"A highrise building is required to have a helipad," he pointed out.

I expect many highrises have their building air cons mounted where a helo pad should be...buy wait, air cons have big fan blades like a helicopter so the building is in compliance (kinda).

[toenail]

Some Western countries such as the USA goes overboard with accusing companies/ individuals with negligence in court (which can be a big financial payment if negligence is proven -and the pockets of lawyers become more full). But this creates the government and private sector to think about being more responsible for ones safety. --Now, I get it after living in Thaland and seeing how basic safety is ignored... not even for a community's benefit. Look at the hazards of simple things such as sidewalks (holes, electrical wires exposed),sois with speeding traffice), fire escapes (blocked), for fire sprinklers (not inspected). But then I question myself- maybe I am expecting to much; after all, Thailand is a developing country.

[GentlemanJim]

The helicopter will never happen. A heli that size would cost millions, plus the maintenance set up/pilots/crew/training/fuel/storage blah blah blah. All the military need to do in the event of a high rise fire is have an order/procedure that allows military aid to the civil emergency forces and job done, trained SAR crews, maintained helicopters and if budget books needed balancing the charge for such a service on a one by one basis would be minimal compared to establishing a dedicated service.

I was thinking along the same lines... It's not like the Thai Army is short of helicopters, and presumably they have some deployed around BKK for various reasons... No reason why there couldn't be some kind of mutual aid arrangement set up.

Though in a Fire Department use scenario, they'd have to be available pretty much on short notice around the clock... It's not like their use could be scheduled in advance, so that might be a problem. Like, Hey, we need the helicopter now.. Ooops....sorry... the chopper crew is out for the night at a karaoke pub...

The other problem, of course, is that the Army has had its own problems lately crashing quite a few of its own helicopters... Bad enough when they go down in unpopulated areas upcountry... But you really don't want one of them crashing into a urban BKK neighborhood.

On second thought, maybe they'd better stick with the water bucket brigades...

A good point but the military will have a 24/7 SAR (Search and Rescue) coverage plus a standby crew.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

We might hope/think....

[sjjmmi]

Oh really, How could this be possible in the LOS

[noitom]

Promising to hire certified inspection firms is one thing. Actually doing the inspections is another. Enforcing the findings is yet another. Finally, re-inspecting and certifying is an on-going process. This building safety issue has been an exposure in Thailand for years and years. Through corruption, graft, arrogance, and lack of legal recourse, it has extended beyond scope. This building codes and standards and regulatory inspection and enforcement along with adequate fire forces and helicopters and equipment is way beyond the scope of Thais to make happen. They need to abandon the old Thai philosophy of excluding foreign expertise, fix the corruption, enforce the law, and get the elite business class building owners to pay up for property taxes to fund all of this.

[sjjmmi]

Promising to hire certified inspection firms is one thing. Actually doing the inspections is another. Enforcing the findings is yet another. Finally, re-inspecting and certifying is an on-going process. This building safety issue has been an exposure in Thailand for years and years. Through corruption, graft, arrogance, and lack of legal recourse, it has extended beyond scope. This building codes and standards and regulatory inspection and enforcement along with adequate fire forces and helicopters and equipment is way beyond the scope of Thais to make happen. They need to abandon the old Thai philosophy of excluding foreign expertise, fix the corruption, enforce the law, and get the elite business class building owners to pay up for property taxes to fund all of this.

+1 Sir

[trainman34014]

if sprinklers were not "adequate", what they were there for ? decoration ? This is insane .... I hope the owner of the hotel will be send to court for obvious negligence in terms of security.

My wife used to work in a resort/hotel. The owner bought sprinkler heads and had them screwed into the ceilings. They were not connected to anything, just looked good!

With all the tourists that come here, the hotels should have to have an annual certification by the fire department or a certified company,which would not only include checks on fire extinguishers and exits but also a pressure test on sprinkler systems. Fat chance.

Yes; I stayed in a Hotel in the South some years back and I was laying on the bed looking at the sprinkler when I realised it was just screwed to the ceiling and not connected. I went to reception and asked why after looking at more in the corridors and finding they were the same. I was subjected to blank looks and wispish 'don't know's' from the staff and nobody cared to go and find anyone who did know. Checked out and moved on, TIT.

[chooka]

I can only assume that they had or were required by law to have public liability and fire insurance. Again I can only assume that to be fully covered, the insurance company would require that they had sufficent and adequate fire safety equipment which is inspected and maintained on a regular basis.

In Victoria, Australia by law all non domestic premises including business and industry are required to have their fire protection equipment inspected and tested every six months, this is known as Fire Equipment Maintenance (FEM). The Regulations require the owner to keep all annual essential safety measures reports, records of maintenance check, service and repair work records on the site for inspection by the Municipal Building Surveyor or Chief Officer. Fail to abide by the laws carries heavy fines and possible criminal charges not to mention your insurance will be void.

If they did not have adequate fire safety equipment how on earth would or did they get insurance? If they are found to truely have inadequate equipment surely the Owner/CEO/Management would be looking down the barrel of criminal charges such as manslaughter. Doe's Thailand actually have any regulations on Fire Equipment?

[chooka]

if sprinklers were not "adequate", what they were there for ? decoration ? This is insane .... I hope the owner of the hotel will be send to court for obvious negligence in terms of security.

My wife used to work in a resort/hotel. The owner bought sprinkler heads and had them screwed into the ceilings. They were not connected to anything, just looked good!

With all the tourists that come here, the hotels should have to have an annual certification by the fire department or a certified company,which would not only include checks on fire extinguishers and exits but also a pressure test on sprinkler systems. Fat chance.

Yes; I stayed in a Hotel in the South some years back and I was laying on the bed looking at the sprinkler when I realised it was just screwed to the ceiling and not connected. I went to reception and asked why after looking at more in the corridors and finding they were the same. I was subjected to blank looks and wispish 'don't know's' from the staff and nobody cared to go and find anyone who did know. Checked out and moved on, TIT.

They could have asked the on duty fire warden, surely he would be totally up to date on all the equipment and thier state of maintenance.

[yumidesign]

if sprinklers were not "adequate", what they were there for ? decoration ? This is insane .... I hope the owner of the hotel will be send to court for obvious negligence in terms of security.

My wife used to work in a resort/hotel. The owner bought sprinkler heads and had them screwed into the ceilings. They were not connected to anything, just looked good!

With all the tourists that come here, the hotels should have to have an annual certification by the fire department or a certified company,which would not only include checks on fire extinguishers and exits but also a pressure test on sprinkler systems. Fat chance.

love this. very Thai ! Its a faulty towers sketch right?

[arrowsdawdle]

Suttichai disclosed that the BMA might consider buying a 20seat helicopter to boost its fire extinguishing and rescue capabilities.

The BKK Fire Department doesn't have helicopters available to it??? Or operate any of its own choppers?

I'm not sure what kind of "fire extinguishing" role a Fire Department helicopter would serve in a dense urban environment like Bangkok. But a helicopter definitely can/could assist with high-rise building rescue and med-evac operations as well as help with spotting and command and control.

The helicopter will never happen. A heli that size would cost millions, plus the maintenance set up/pilots/crew/training/fuel/storage blah blah blah. All the military need to do in the event of a high rise fire is have an order/procedure that allows military aid to the civil emergency forces and job done, trained SAR crews, maintained helicopters and if budget books needed balancing the charge for such a service on a one by one basis would be minimal compared to establishing a dedicated service.

Absolutely. Military choppers should be available for civil emergencies. What other purpose would they have other than playing Cobra Gold once a year, and the odd lift up to Phu kradung?

Edited March 10, 2012 by arrowsdawdle

[arrowsdawdle]

if sprinklers were not "adequate", what they were there for ? decoration ? This is insane .... I hope the owner of the hotel will be send to court for obvious negligence in terms of security.

My wife used to work in a resort/hotel. The owner bought sprinkler heads and had them screwed into the ceilings. They were not connected to anything, just looked good!

With all the tourists that come here, the hotels should have to have an annual certification by the fire department or a certified company,which would not only include checks on fire extinguishers and exits but also a pressure test on sprinkler systems. Fat chance.

Yes; I stayed in a Hotel in the South some years back and I was laying on the bed looking at the sprinkler when I realised it was just screwed to the ceiling and not connected. I went to reception and asked why after looking at more in the corridors and finding they were the same. I was subjected to blank looks and wispish 'don't know's' from the staff and nobody cared to go and find anyone who did know. Checked out and moved on, TIT.

They could have asked the on duty fire warden, surely he would be totally up to date on all the equipment and thier state of maintenance.

[arrowsdawdle]

I can only assume that they had or were required by law to have public liability and fire insurance. Again I can only assume that to be fully covered, the insurance company would require that they had sufficent and adequate fire safety equipment which is inspected and maintained on a regular basis.

In Victoria, Australia by law all non domestic premises including business and industry are required to have their fire protection equipment inspected and tested every six months, this is known as Fire Equipment Maintenance (FEM). The Regulations require the owner to keep all annual essential safety measures reports, records of maintenance check, service and repair work records on the site for inspection by the Municipal Building Surveyor or Chief Officer. Fail to abide by the laws carries heavy fines and possible criminal charges not to mention your insurance will be void.

If they did not have adequate fire safety equipment how on earth would or did they get insurance? If they are found to truely have inadequate equipment surely the Owner/CEO/Management would be looking down the barrel of criminal charges such as manslaughter. Doe's Thailand actually have any regulations on Fire Equipment?

You're not in Kansas any more, Toto. How can you talk liability after seeing the power lines draped on flyover railings and sprigs of a bush used as a barricade in front of a hole in the road or a broken down truck? Liability would mean losing face. Now there's a serious crime, so don't do a negative restaurant review.

[richard_smith237]

The issue as I see it is that as a society Thailand is reactive rather than proactive.

This has both advantages with regards to the freedoms people enjoy, however, the negatives revolve around the fact that issues are only ever dealt with ‘after an event’. The subsequent total lack of responsibility and accountability is to blame, and also the enforcement of responsibility and accountability. The acceptability of the general populace that those higher up the pecking order can avoid responsibility further exacerbate these issues.

As someone mentioned in another thread, while Thailand is a great place to live, it has major issues, while it is a successful state, on some terms it could be classed as a failed society.

I love Thailand, it is very sad to see these issues repeated, my Thai friends also express sadness at the very same issues we on Thai visa.com often discuss.

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

Duuhhhh...

[swerver]

Suttichai disclosed that the BMA might consider buying a 20seat helicopter to boost its fire extinguishing and rescue capabilities.

The BKK Fire Department doesn't have helicopters available to it??? Or operate any of its own choppers?

I'm not sure what kind of "fire extinguishing" role a Fire Department helicopter would serve in a dense urban environment like Bangkok. But a helicopter definitely can/could assist with high-rise building rescue and med-evac operations as well as help with spotting and command and control.

Wait a minute – BKK Fire Department. What BKK Fire Department???

Bangkok has NO Fire Department.

Bangkok has Fire Fighting trucks of many kinds and sorts PARKED at Major Police Stations with Police men in case of a fire acting as Firemen, ha here we go again, if it isn’t sex its money, for which they receive extra pay in addition to their Policeman peanuts salary.

Several years ago it was given a try to build proper Fire Stations with properly trained Firemen. All this came to naught because the Policemen objected to loosing that extra money. That was the end of a metropolis like Bangkok having proper Fire Stations with properly trained Firemen.

Whenever passing On Nut Police station on Sukhumvit in BK take a look at all that late model fire fighting trucks practically stacked one against the other looking like they have been in the Battle of the Bull as filty dirty it all is. Pride, what pride, Thais have no pride in equipment they have to work with. Staying with the police look at the motor cycles of all different kind they ride around on many so filty dirty you can’t even tell the color of it.

Why in hell care, the imbecile sex tourist will still flock to the whorehouse capital of the world to play Russian roulette, at times even with more than one bullet in the cylinder. Talk about Russians, when shopping at Big C in Pattaya you would think you were in Moscow.

[KeyserSoze01]

if sprinklers were not "adequate", what they were there for ? decoration ? This is insane .... I hope the owner of the hotel will be send to court for obvious negligence in terms of security.

The question has to be asked, just how did the hotel obtain a license to operate when their sprinkler system did not meet building code.

It's a rhetorical point which needs no explanation as we know it's cheaper to pay off the inspectors than to comply with the building code.

[chrisinth]

The helicopter will never happen. A heli that size would cost millions, plus the maintenance set up/pilots/crew/training/fuel/storage blah blah blah. All the military need to do in the event of a high rise fire is have an order/procedure that allows military aid to the civil emergency forces and job done, trained SAR crews, maintained helicopters and if budget books needed balancing the charge for such a service on a one by one basis would be minimal compared to establishing a dedicated service.

I was thinking along the same lines... It's not like the Thai Army is short of helicopters, and presumably they have some deployed around BKK for various reasons... No reason why there couldn't be some kind of mutual aid arrangement set up.

Though in a Fire Department use scenario, they'd have to be available pretty much on short notice around the clock... It's not like their use could be scheduled in advance, so that might be a problem. Like, Hey, we need the helicopter now.. Ooops....sorry... the chopper crew is out for the night at a karaoke pub...

The other problem, of course, is that the Army has had its own problems lately crashing quite a few of its own helicopters... Bad enough when they go down in unpopulated areas upcountry... But you really don't want one of them crashing into a urban BKK neighborhood.

On second thought, maybe they'd better stick with the water bucket brigades...

A good point but the military will have a 24/7 SAR (Search and Rescue) coverage plus a standby crew.

On standby in Bkk? Not sure if the milatary have SAR s/b there. Sattahip yes. May well be wrong on that.............