UK pensions

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, sumrit said:

I was only going to be in the UK for a few weeks so it wasn't going to affect me greatly, but firstly, I was curious to see whether the comments made by various posters on here were truthful when they said we were entitled to free NHS as soon as we returned to the UK or just spouting bu****it and, secondly , to be successful as a good liar you must also have an exceptionally good memory, which most older people of my age no longer have.

 

 

What, all three different and independent offices/surgeries giving exactly the same advice when the only connection between them was that they all work for, and are advised by the NHS??????

 

Given the choice of believing an anonymous poster here or getting the information direct from the horses mouth, I know who I would rather believe.

 

It doesn't mean I'm happy with the rules though, I still think they stink! 

 

Is it possible they sussed out you were just on holiday?  You can see that I have just posted the rules directly from the UK.gov website.

Edited August 2, 2018 by mommysboy

[sumrit]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Is it possible they sussed out you were just on holiday?  You can see that I have just posted the rules directly from the UK.gov website.

The point is, I told all three I had been living abroad but was returning on a permanent basis and all three independently said three months as the qualifying period. And, strangely enough, that was also the delay my mate had been given when he applied for a council tax subsidy some six months earlier, and was in a different local authority area of the UK.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, sumrit said:

The point is, I told all three I had been living abroad but was returning on a permanent basis and all three independently said three months as the qualifying period. And, strangely enough, that was also the delay my mate had been given when he applied for a council tax subsidy some six months earlier, and was in a different local authority area of the UK.

"I told all three I had been living abroad"

 

And that was where it went wrong.

 

My ex-husband returned to the uk when he came down with a serious illness, and received free NHS care with no problems.  Presumably he never made the mistake of telling them that he had been living in Thailand for the last few years.

[mommysboy]

13 minutes ago, sumrit said:

The point is, I told all three I had been living abroad but was returning on a permanent basis and all three independently said three months as the qualifying period. And, strangely enough, that was also the delay my mate had been given when he applied for a council tax subsidy some six months earlier, and was in a different local authority area of the UK.

 

13 minutes ago, sumrit said:

The point is, I told all three I had been living abroad but was returning on a permanent basis and all three independently said three months as the qualifying period. And, strangely enough, that was also the delay my mate had been given when he applied for a council tax subsidy some six months earlier, and was in a different local authority area of the UK.

It is from day one. Even the UK.gov website states this.

 

Same with state pension uprate.  Welfare benefits may be subject to the 3 month rule.

 

Truly I think they sussed out you were on holiday.  Since this was actually the case you didn't make a fuss. But if you are/will be returning to UK on a permanent basis then put your foot down.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by mommysboy

[sumrit]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I told all three I had been living abroad"

 

And that was where it went wrong.

 

My ex-husband returned to the uk when he came down with a serious illness, and received free NHS care with no problems.  Presumably he never made the mistake of telling them that he had been living in Thailand for the last few years.

The point is that various posters on this forum insist that, as soon as you return to the UK  and declare that you are returning permanently, you are immediately entitled to free NHS care, regardless of where you have previously lived. 

 

In my experience, from three different NHS departments, that is clearly not true.

 

And you seem to have a different solution and seem to be suggesting that we LIE TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM.

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, sumrit said:

The point is that various posters on this forum insist that, as soon as you return to the UK  and declare that you are returning permanently, you are immediately entitled to free NHS care, regardless of where you have previously lived. 

 

In my experience, from three different NHS departments, that is clearly not true.

 

And you seem to have a different solution and seem to be suggesting that we LIE TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM.

 

LIE TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM.

 

Well, they are lying aren't they?  You can clearly see that now.

 

 

 

 

[ivor bigun]

The point is that various posters on this forum insist that, as soon as you return to the UK  and declare that you are returning permanently, you are immediately entitled to free NHS care, regardless of where you have previously lived. 
 
In my experience, from three different NHS departments, that is clearly not true.
 
And you seem to have a different solution and seem to be suggesting that we LIE TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM.

Why not the system has cheated us.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, sumrit said:

And you seem to have a different solution and seem to be suggesting that we LIE TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM.

 

The UK government has always lied to us, I merely return the favour.

Do I feel guilty? Not at all.

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, sumrit said:

The point is that various posters on this forum insist that, as soon as you return to the UK  and declare that you are returning permanently, you are immediately entitled to free NHS care, regardless of where you have previously lived. 

 

In my experience, from three different NHS departments, that is clearly not true.

 

And you seem to have a different solution and seem to be suggesting that we LIE TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM.

"And you seem to have a different solution and seem to be suggesting that we LIE TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM."

 

Not at all, I'm just pointing out that anyone returning to the uk as a permanent resident is asking for trouble if they (for some obscure reason ?) feel the need to declare that they have been living abroad for a few years!

 

Edit - It's pretty obvious that this is only going to result in problems, as I'm pretty sure that most NHS staff have no idea as to all the rules on this issue!

Edited August 2, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[My Thai Life]

It's only in the last month that I've looked into Uk govt pensions entitlements, having opted out of the UK (and its schemes) 20-30 years ago.

 

Can it really be true that a full UK govt pension doesn't even cover the Thai retirement criteria - ie 60k baht per month?

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

It's only in the last month that I've looked into Uk govt pensions entitlements, having opted out of the UK (and its schemes) 20-30 years ago.

 

Can it really be true that a full UK govt pension doesn't even cover the Thai retirement criteria - ie 60k baht per month?

 

Yes, miserly isn't it?

 

There are some means tested benefits too, from which expats are excluded- free travel, heating allowance.

[mommysboy]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/430967/OR_Tool__1_.pdf

 

Here is the assessment tool should it get to that stage. 

 

Basically, even if you are denied treatment, you will have to be reimbursed later, since entitlement starts from day one.  That has been established in law.

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

It's only in the last month that I've looked into Uk govt pensions entitlements, having opted out of the UK (and its schemes) 20-30 years ago.

 

Can it really be true that a full UK govt pension doesn't even cover the Thai retirement criteria - ie 60k baht per month?

But don't worry - uk MPs have a far better pension.... ☹️.

 

I've never understood why brits. aren't protesting about MPs continually coming up with ways to reduce the electorate's pensions - whilst their own remains un-changed!

Edited August 2, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[DILLIGAD]

But don't worry - uk MPs have a far better pension.... ☹️.
 
I've never understood why brits. aren't protesting about MPs continually coming up with ways to reduce the electorate's pensions - whilst their own remains un-changed!

Theirs are also not frozen when they chose to retire abroad!


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[My Thai Life]

So very roughly speaking, the full UK govt pension is about the same as the tax paid by the top Thai tax bracket.

 

Edit: recalculation shows UK govt pension about 75% of top Thai tax bracket.

Edited August 2, 2018 by My Thai Life

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

But don't worry - uk MPs have a far better pension.... ☹️.

 

I've never understood why brits. aren't protesting about MPs continually coming up with ways to reduce the electorate's pensions - whilst their own remains un-changed!

If any claim state pensions they'll be in the same boat if they chose to live in any of the 'frozen' countries. Their work pensions on the other hand...

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, DILLIGAD said:

Theirs are also not frozen when they chose to retire abroad!

See previous post.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, sumrit said:

The point is, I told all three I had been living abroad but was returning on a permanent basis and all three independently said three months as the qualifying period. And, strangely enough, that was also the delay my mate had been given when he applied for a council tax subsidy some six months earlier, and was in a different local authority area of the UK.

You were told wrong,as simple as that. Within a week of returning to the U.K. 

I presented myself to the doctors surgery, having never been there before, and told them I had been living in Thailand for 20yrs.Booked an appointment for 3 days in the future, seen by the doctor.

By the way, we were staying in a holiday cottage,that was well known by the Dr.

Edited August 2, 2018 by nontabury

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, mommysboy said:

In short: YES.

 

Sometimes you have to do things that you would otherwise prefer not to do.

What is for the goose is for the gander.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, sumrit said:

The point is that various posters on this forum insist that, as soon as you return to the UK  and declare that you are returning permanently, you are immediately entitled to free NHS care, regardless of where you have previously lived. 

 

In my experience, from three different NHS departments, that is clearly not true.

 

And you seem to have a different solution and seem to be suggesting that we LIE TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM.

So what, the MPs lie every time they open their mouth, so why shouldn't we?

[mommysboy]

I remember now it was the 'Shah ruling' that established entitlement from day one.

[sandyf]

On 8/1/2018 at 4:30 PM, nong38 said:

I was never contracted out of the State scheme. My NHS pension chum told me stay as I am, I was lucky to bump into him.  At the time I think a lot did contract out thinking they could do better than the Govt scheme, only to find that was probably not the case.

As far as I am aware all proper company pension schemes were automatically contracted out, the employee had no say in the matter. The water gets muddied where companies arranged a group pension scheme for employees which were in fact personal schemes rather than proper company schemes.

Anyone who has never contacted out would have the returns from the state additional pension schemes showing on their pension statement, which are.

Graduated Retirement Benefit - 1961 - 1975 ( No contracting out on this)

SERPS - 1978 - 1997 (This is when contracting out for company schemes started.)

SERPS2 - 1997 - 2002

Second State Pension - 2002 - 2016 (Additional pension was discontinued April 2016)

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

As far as I am aware all proper company pension schemes were automatically contracted out, the employee had no say in the matter. The water gets muddied where companies arranged a group pension scheme for employees which were in fact personal schemes rather than proper company schemes.

Anyone who has never contacted out would have the returns from the state additional pension schemes showing on their pension statement, which are.

Graduated Retirement Benefit - 1961 - 1975 ( No contracting out on this)

SERPS - 1978 - 1997 (This is when contracting out for company schemes started.)

SERPS2 - 1997 - 2002

Second State Pension - 2002 - 2016 (Additional pension was discontinued April 2016)

There were a small number of company pension schemes that were not contracted out. For these, the member paid the full NI rate contributing in full to the State Second pension as well as the company pension.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

As far as I am aware all proper company pension schemes were automatically contracted out, the employee had no say in the matter. The water gets muddied where companies arranged a group pension scheme for employees which were in fact personal schemes rather than proper company schemes.

Anyone who has never contacted out would have the returns from the state additional pension schemes showing on their pension statement, which are.

Graduated Retirement Benefit - 1961 - 1975 ( No contracting out on this)

SERPS - 1978 - 1997 (This is when contracting out for company schemes started.)

SERPS2 - 1997 - 2002

Second State Pension - 2002 - 2016 (Additional pension was discontinued April 2016)

 

Is there anywhere that I can look deeper into this?

[nong38]

9 hours ago, sandyf said:

As far as I am aware all proper company pension schemes were automatically contracted out, the employee had no say in the matter. The water gets muddied where companies arranged a group pension scheme for employees which were in fact personal schemes rather than proper company schemes.

Anyone who has never contacted out would have the returns from the state additional pension schemes showing on their pension statement, which are.

Graduated Retirement Benefit - 1961 - 1975 ( No contracting out on this)

SERPS - 1978 - 1997 (This is when contracting out for company schemes started.)

SERPS2 - 1997 - 2002

Second State Pension - 2002 - 2016 (Additional pension was discontinued April 2016)

Yes Sandy F that's what company pension shows.

[evadgib]

Heads up re bogus Mod contact:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/potential-phishing-scam-impersonating-ministry-of-defence

[KittenKong]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:23 PM, nontabury said:

You have to inform them of your return, and then when you go back.

I'm aware of what one is supposed to do. What I was asking was what specifically happened in the case of @sandyf.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Is there anywhere that I can look deeper into this?

Not that I am aware of Bill, company pension schemes is a particularly grey area. The confusion mainly stems from people thinking they are in a company scheme when it is in fact a company arranged scheme through an external pension provider.

At one point I took a job where after 6 months you had to join what was referred to as the company pension plan. It was in fact a company arranged personal plan and when I was made redundant shortly after joining I got all contributions back under inland revenue triviality rules, including the employers, gained about £800. That plan wasn't contracted out but I could have used it to contract out had I chosen to do so as it was after the change in policy regarding individuals.

Again with the state schemes it is all a bit grey, they only tell you how much under each scheme, as far as I am aware there is no way of finding out how much for any particular year. It is an almost impossible calculation trying to establish what you you should have received. All I do know is that I get a good bit more from the state than I do from a private plan that ran for nearly the same length of time.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I'm aware of what one is supposed to do. What I was asking was what specifically happened in the case of @sandyf.

You shouldn't have asked. Others have posted that they phone up and they get the payment without problem with their next pension. I have a bit of a hearing problem so reluctant to phone anyone, in particular long distance to people with strange accents.

I normally write to the DWP to make the claim, I have made 4 claims and in 3 cases it has taken further action to get paid. Last year I made a formal complaint and got £25 in compensation for their lack of response. In the other 2 cases they just said it had been delayed due to workload. It is DWP policy not to acknowledge letters so you have no idea what is going on.

[billd766]

24 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Not that I am aware of Bill, company pension schemes is a particularly grey area. The confusion mainly stems from people thinking they are in a company scheme when it is in fact a company arranged scheme through an external pension provider.

At one point I took a job where after 6 months you had to join what was referred to as the company pension plan. It was in fact a company arranged personal plan and when I was made redundant shortly after joining I got all contributions back under inland revenue triviality rules, including the employers, gained about £800. That plan wasn't contracted out but I could have used it to contract out had I chosen to do so as it was after the change in policy regarding individuals.

Again with the state schemes it is all a bit grey, they only tell you how much under each scheme, as far as I am aware there is no way of finding out how much for any particular year. It is an almost impossible calculation trying to establish what you you should have received. All I do know is that I get a good bit more from the state than I do from a private plan that ran for nearly the same length of time.

Thanks for that information.

 

When I came out of the RAF I worked for 7 months at one job then quit to work for the Home Office for 3 and a bit years. I was in the company scheme there and when I went to Vodafone the HO transferred my pension contributions there.

 

After a year I quit and went to Motorola and Vodafone transferred my contributions there and I now get a pension from Motorola.

 

My contributions stopped when I quit Motorola and went contracting. I started a pension plan there but cancelled it when I was out of a contract for a few months which in retrospect was a bit silly but my income was limited at the time.