UK pensions

[evadgib]

As soon as I posted the last link I rang HMRC about the forms mentioned yesterday. The call lasted almost 15 mins, 11.30 of which was call-waiting...

After explaining what I wanted the best they could offer was to snail-mail a copy from Newcastle!

I might as well have a go at 'forgery' after all!

Edited July 21, 2016 by evadgib

[sandyf]

The HMRC are getting more efficient every year. Did my tax return on 18th July and got notice of refund yesterday.

[Oxx]

The HMRC are getting more efficient every year. Did my tax return on 18th July and got notice of refund yesterday.

Just a pity they can't be bothered to put the "residence" pages online. For those of us who need to fill them in, we're stuck with pen and paper plus interminable delays.

[evadgib]

The HMRC are getting more efficient every year. Did my tax return on 18th July and got notice of refund yesterday.

A question in my covering letter to HMRC sent today asks how to register on the Govt gateway without a UK mob number if self assessment is necessary.

Up until now I haven't needed to bother & have been out of the country since before it came about.

Is it easy & straightforward for the serially dyslexic?

Edited July 22, 2016 by evadgib

[Oxx]

A question in my covering letter to HMRC sent today asks how to register on the Govt gateway without a UK mob number if self assessment is necessary.

Up until now I haven't needed to bother & have been out of the country since before it came about.

If you are non-resident you can't legitimately use the HMRC online system since it doesn't include the non-resident pages. (Yes people do, but they are breaking the rules, and I hope Hector comes back to bite them on the bum.)

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

To bring us back on topic I should point out that one of the ex servicemen in my locality spent his career on Nuclear Submarines and will join the ranks of frozen pensioners in due course

Probably the result of his service during the cold war

[billd766]

A question in my covering letter to HMRC sent today asks how to register on the Govt gateway without a UK mob number if self assessment is necessary.

Up until now I haven't needed to bother & have been out of the country since before it came about.

If you are non-resident you can't legitimately use the HMRC online system since it doesn't include the non-resident pages. (Yes people do, but they are breaking the rules, and I hope Hector comes back to bite them on the bum.)

I have been registered on the HMRC online system for years. They know I am in Thailand and have no address, bank account or UK phone number and they have yet to inform me if I am breaking any rules.

[JetsetBkk]

Published a few mins ago:

Telephony in DWP and HMRC: an update

If you can do a tax return via the Internet by signing in to https://online.inlandrevenue.etc with a ridiculous username like A8NBUUM3V2B and password like 675345897 and give your NI Number, why the h*** can't you do everything that way, including voting?

Morons at the ministry, that's why.

[Oxx]

I have been registered on the HMRC online system for years. They know I am in Thailand and have no address, bank account or UK phone number and they have yet to inform me if I am breaking any rules.

They are not responsible if you make an incorrect tax return - you are. They have no obligation to inform you you're not following the rules.

SA100 page TR2 makes it absolutely clear with Question #8 that non-residents need to fill in the Residence pages:

8 Residence, remittance basis etc

Were you, for all or part of the year to 5 April 2016,

one or more of the following:

• not resident

I believe the on-line system (though I haven't attempted to use it for a few years) provides a similar warning for non-residents.

So, for years you've been making a fraudulent tax return. Let's hope, for your sake, Hector doesn't catch up with your misdemeanour.

Of course, the real time this comes back to cause problems is post mortem. If you've submitted tax returns claiming you're UK resident over the years, your heirs have virtually zero chance of claiming you're non-residents in the UK, so they'll be stung for Inheritance Tax.

[partington]

I have been registered on the HMRC online system for years. They know I am in Thailand and have no address, bank account or UK phone number and they have yet to inform me if I am breaking any rules.

They are not responsible if you make an incorrect tax return - you are. They have no obligation to inform you you're not following the rules.

SA100 page TR2 makes it absolutely clear with Question #8 that non-residents need to fill in the Residence pages:

8 Residence, remittance basis etc

Were you, for all or part of the year to 5 April 2016,

one or more of the following:

• not resident

I believe the on-line system (though I haven't attempted to use it for a few years) provides a similar warning for non-residents.

So, for years you've been making a fraudulent tax return. Let's hope, for your sake, Hector doesn't catch up with your misdemeanour.

Of course, the real time this comes back to cause problems is post mortem. If you've submitted tax returns claiming you're UK resident over the years, your heirs have virtually zero chance of claiming you're non-residents in the UK, so they'll be stung for Inheritance Tax.

Just to add, for people who need or want to do legitimate UK tax returns online from abroad, there are a number of apps you can buy and download that allow you to do this, and are not expensive.

One I bought, (but in the end didn't need to use, so can't verify how well the online submission works) is from taxcalc.com and cost £27.

It includes all the non-residence pages.

[topt]

The HMRC are getting more efficient every year. Did my tax return on 18th July and got notice of refund yesterday.

A question in my covering letter to HMRC sent today asks how to register on the Govt gateway without a UK mob number if self assessment is necessary.

Up until now I haven't needed to bother & have been out of the country since before it came about.

Is it easy & straightforward for the serially dyslexic?

Even though I already had online access and a UTR no etc I recently tried to get a pension quote for which I had to add a mobile number for verification. The process was very straight forward except they could not get a message sent to the Thai mobile number I used. They seemed now to have solved this problem (it took a while but to be fair emailed me to keep me informed when they were working on it) so go ahead and use your Thai number.

Edit - pension quote was a complete waste of time as even I knew it was way overstated......

Edited July 22, 2016 by topt

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Anyone who wants to check their NI record can now do it on the HMRC personal account. A full list of years back to 1975 is shown and a summary for years pre 75, I cut off the list.

Information they provided to me some years ago indicated I would have the 44 full years, but looks like it was 48. Year 2012 is incomplete as that is the year I started the state pension.

1. Account home

2. State Pension

Your UK National Insurance record

Summary

You have:

· 48 years of full contributions

· 1 year when you did not contribute enough

All years.

View gaps only

2011-12

Year is not full

View 2011-12details

2010-11

Full year

My record is similar. I have 48 complete years and an incomplete year for which I have a right to make a payment of £ 28:20 in order to render the year complete. Given that I have over 44 years, the extra payment could not increase my state pension. There are however vague and inexplicit references to the effect of an incomplete record on bereavement benefits, although I have not been able to ascertain whether this really means an incomplete record of less than 44 years. It seems curious to me that you have the right conferred upon you to can make an additional payment for which you can receive no benefit.

Interestingly , the letter advising my right to make this additional payment is no less than 8 pages long.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

They are all Ministers, a Secretary of State will be top of the pecking order and will normally be in The Cabinet. An Under Secretary will, as the name implies, be subordinate to the Secretary of State, though some still attend Cabinet Meetings.

The pecking order is: Secretary of State, Minister of State then Under Secretary, though it is possible for an Under Secretary to be directly responsible to a Secretary of State The previous incumbent was a Minister of State The new incumbent is an Under Secretary. So effectively it's the pensions department itself which has been demoted ( there is no longer a Minister Of State for Pensions). We should be suspicious that this is an attempt to downgrade the importance of pensions generally.

[billd766]

I have been registered on the HMRC online system for years. They know I am in Thailand and have no address, bank account or UK phone number and they have yet to inform me if I am breaking any rules.

They are not responsible if you make an incorrect tax return - you are. They have no obligation to inform you you're not following the rules.

SA100 page TR2 makes it absolutely clear with Question #8 that non-residents need to fill in the Residence pages:

8 Residence, remittance basis etc

Were you, for all or part of the year to 5 April 2016,

one or more of the following:

• not resident

I believe the on-line system (though I haven't attempted to use it for a few years) provides a similar warning for non-residents.

So, for years you've been making a fraudulent tax return. Let's hope, for your sake, Hector doesn't catch up with your misdemeanour.

Of course, the real time this comes back to cause problems is post mortem. If you've submitted tax returns claiming you're UK resident over the years, your heirs have virtually zero chance of claiming you're non-residents in the UK, so they'll be stung for Inheritance Tax.

How strange that you should say that.

For the last 15 years I have been doing my self assessment tax online and each year I contact their hotline and they help me out where and when necessary. I have even gone through some errors with them online that went back 5 or 6 years and they sorted that out for me.

I have had several tax refunds as well.

Now far be it from me to disagree with you BUT having dealt with HMRC over those 15 years I would rather believe them than I would believe you.

If you think that I am in the wrong then I suggest that you get your facts correct before telling me that I am wrong. HMRC are professionals and actually DO know what they are doing and what they are talking about. Do you know what you are talking about and are you a professional tax collector at HMRC?

According to HMRC I am a resident of the UK for tax purposes, even though I have not lived there for years, have no UK address or phone number and all my HMRC mail is sent to my address in Thailand as my pensions income was all derived from the UK.

Edited July 22, 2016 by billd766

[sandyf]

I have been registered on the HMRC online system for years. They know I am in Thailand and have no address, bank account or UK phone number and they have yet to inform me if I am breaking any rules.

They are not responsible if you make an incorrect tax return - you are. They have no obligation to inform you you're not following the rules.

SA100 page TR2 makes it absolutely clear with Question #8 that non-residents need to fill in the Residence pages:

8 Residence, remittance basis etc

Were you, for all or part of the year to 5 April 2016,

one or more of the following:

• not resident

I believe the on-line system (though I haven't attempted to use it for a few years) provides a similar warning for non-residents.

So, for years you've been making a fraudulent tax return. Let's hope, for your sake, Hector doesn't catch up with your misdemeanour.

Of course, the real time this comes back to cause problems is post mortem. If you've submitted tax returns claiming you're UK resident over the years, your heirs have virtually zero chance of claiming you're non-residents in the UK, so they'll be stung for Inheritance Tax.

How strange that you should say that.

For the last 15 years I have been doing my self assessment tax online and each year I contact their hotline and they help me out where and when necessary. I have even gone through some errors with them online that went back 5 or 6 years and they sorted that out for me.

I have had several tax refunds as well.

Now far be it from me to disagree with you BUT having dealt with HMRC over those 15 years I would rather believe them than I would believe you.

If you think that I am in the wrong then I suggest that you get your facts correct before telling me that I am wrong. HMRC are professionals and actually DO know what they are doing and what they are talking about. Do you know what you are talking about and are you a professional tax collector at HMRC?

According to HMRC I am a resident of the UK for tax purposes, even though I have not lived there for years, have no UK address or phone number and all my HMRC mail is sent to my address in Thailand as my pensions income was all derived from the UK.

From what you have said Bill I think your experience is similar to mine and would agree. I have also received mail from them here in Thailand.

Unfortunately there is always someone that thinks they know better. Personal income tax is exactly that, personal, and personal circumstances vary.

[sandyf]

I have been registered on the HMRC online system for years. They know I am in Thailand and have no address, bank account or UK phone number and they have yet to inform me if I am breaking any rules.

They are not responsible if you make an incorrect tax return - you are. They have no obligation to inform you you're not following the rules.

SA100 page TR2 makes it absolutely clear with Question #8 that non-residents need to fill in the Residence pages:

8 Residence, remittance basis etc

Were you, for all or part of the year to 5 April 2016,

one or more of the following:

• not resident

I believe the on-line system (though I haven't attempted to use it for a few years) provides a similar warning for non-residents.

So, for years you've been making a fraudulent tax return. Let's hope, for your sake, Hector doesn't catch up with your misdemeanour.

Of course, the real time this comes back to cause problems is post mortem. If you've submitted tax returns claiming you're UK resident over the years, your heirs have virtually zero chance of claiming you're non-residents in the UK, so they'll be stung for Inheritance Tax.

That is opinion based and uncalled for, and I would suggest in breach of the forum rules.

[nontabury]

I have been registered on the HMRC online system for years. They know I am in Thailand and have no address, bank account or UK phone number and they have yet to inform me if I am breaking any rules.

They are not responsible if you make an incorrect tax return - you are. They have no obligation to inform you you're not following the rules.

SA100 page TR2 makes it absolutely clear with Question #8 that non-residents need to fill in the Residence pages:

8 Residence, remittance basis etc

Were you, for all or part of the year to 5 April 2016,

one or more of the following:

not resident

I believe the on-line system (though I haven't attempted to use it for a few years) provides a similar warning for non-residents.

So, for years you've been making a fraudulent tax return. Let's hope, for your sake, Hector doesn't catch up with your misdemeanour.

Of course, the real time this comes back to cause problems is post mortem. If you've submitted tax returns claiming you're UK resident over the years, your heirs have virtually zero chance of claiming you're non-residents in the UK, so they'll be stung for Inheritance Tax.

Inheritance tax, no problem,make sure your figures are below their number,shift everything off-shore.

[billd766]

As for pensions and the Forex.

This month, July the actual exchange rate that I get at KBank which is my Thai bank and therefore MY reference point, for my 3 pensions were as follows;

12 July 47.467

21 July 45.763

22 July 26.130

Compared to June

14 June 52.550

20 June 50.099

22 June 51.534

And January

18 Jan 51.208

22 Jan 51.382

Jan 26 53.561

The GBP has been on a downward trend since September 2015 when it peaked at 55.181, long before Brexit.

If you use a different bank then the rates may change a little, if you transfer large amounts the rates may also change a little.

[JB300]

^^^Hope the 22 July number was a typo!!!

Edited July 23, 2016 by JB300

[billd766]

^^^Hope the 22 July number was a typo!!!

My apologies and well done for spotting it.

There were actually 2 errors.

The first was a typo and it should have read 46.130.

The other was entirely my fault for not triple checking my post.

As Captain Mainwaring was prone to say;

"You Stupid Boy, Pike"

[ignis]

The HMRC are getting more efficient every year. Did my tax return on 18th July and got notice of refund yesterday.

Wow lucky you. of course when you get the refund is another matter.

Did mine on 5th September 2015, as yet still waiting, [did get a snail letter saying it will be paid December 2015.. but as yet nothing]

So did it this year just before April, yep still waiting... They did sent a snail letter saying it would be paid around 12th May 2016.. as of today nothing..

No idea why, cannot find a phone number to ask in person so just snail mail.... + send off the form from my private Pension supplier

[billd766]

The HMRC are getting more efficient every year. Did my tax return on 18th July and got notice of refund yesterday.

Wow lucky you. of course when you get the refund is another matter.

Did mine on 5th September 2015, as yet still waiting, [did get a snail letter saying it will be paid December 2015.. but as yet nothing]

So did it this year just before April, yep still waiting... They did sent a snail letter saying it would be paid around 12th May 2016.. as of today nothing..

No idea why, cannot find a phone number to ask in person so just snail mail.... + send off the form from my private Pension supplier

Perhaps this may help you.

Non-UK residents: Income Tax and Capital Gains

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-and-capital-gains-tax-enquiries-for-non-uk-residents

Beta This part of GOV.UK is being rebuilt – find out what this means

Online forms

• Send an Income Tax or Capital Gains enquiry

• Send a Self Assessment enquiry

• Send an enquiry about UK allowances or Double Taxation Agreements

• Send a general residence enquiry

• Send an enquiry if you are a Crown employee or a Crown pensioner

Your message using this form is secure. If HMRC reply by email the information is not secure. If they need to contact you about anything confidential, they will reply by post or telephone.

Phone

• Telephone: 0300 200 3300

• Outside UK: +44 135 535 9022

Find out about call charges

Opening times:

8am to 8pm, Monday to Friday

8am to 4pm, Saturday

Closed Sundays and bank holidays

Complain to HM Revenue and Customs.doc

[sandyf]

The HMRC are getting more efficient every year. Did my tax return on 18th July and got notice of refund yesterday.

Wow lucky you. of course when you get the refund is another matter.

Did mine on 5th September 2015, as yet still waiting, [did get a snail letter saying it will be paid December 2015.. but as yet nothing]

So did it this year just before April, yep still waiting... They did sent a snail letter saying it would be paid around 12th May 2016.. as of today nothing..

No idea why, cannot find a phone number to ask in person so just snail mail.... + send off the form from my private Pension supplier

I didn't realise it at the time as I hadn't checked my account, but the money was already in my account when I made the post.

Submitted the return Monday afternoon, notice of refund Thursday afternoon and funds credited to account Friday morning.

[ignis]

The HMRC are getting more efficient every year. Did my tax return on 18th July and got notice of refund yesterday.

Wow lucky you. of course when you get the refund is another matter.

Did mine on 5th September 2015, as yet still waiting, [did get a snail letter saying it will be paid December 2015.. but as yet nothing]

So did it this year just before April, yep still waiting... They did sent a snail letter saying it would be paid around 12th May 2016.. as of today nothing..

No idea why, cannot find a phone number to ask in person so just snail mail.... + send off the form from my private Pension supplier

Perhaps this may help you.

Non-UK residents: Income Tax and Capital Gains

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-and-capital-gains-tax-enquiries-for-non-uk-residents

Beta This part of GOV.UK is being rebuilt – find out what this means

Online forms

• Send an Income Tax or Capital Gains enquiry

• Send a Self Assessment enquiry

• Send an enquiry about UK allowances or Double Taxation Agreements

• Send a general residence enquiry

• Send an enquiry if you are a Crown employee or a Crown pensioner

Your message using this form is secure. If HMRC reply by email the information is not secure. If they need to contact you about anything confidential, they will reply by post or telephone.

Phone

• Telephone: 0300 200 3300

• Outside UK: +44 135 535 9022

Find out about call charges

Opening times:

8am to 8pm, Monday to Friday

8am to 4pm, Saturday

Closed Sundays and bank holidays

Complain to HM Revenue and Customs.doc

Many thanks.....

As letters take about 28 days to arrive from them [re the post mark stamp] will wait longer as send recorded mail yet again 5 weeks ago.. not sure how long it takes to get there ? and for them to read, file and replies sent..

[orientalist]

I've been outside the UK for decades and am currently applying for my pension. Other than a partial state pension, I have a very small paid-up pension. Since non-residents don't get a personal allowance, it looks as though I'll have to pay 20% tax on the PUP. Is there any way I can avoid this or claim something that will offset it?

[Oxx]

Since non-residents don't get a personal allowance, it looks as though I'll have to pay 20% tax on the PUP.

You are wrong. Non-residents (assuming you're British) get the full personal allowance. You will have to make a tax return, though, to reclaim any tax deducted at source.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Oxx

[Ricardo]

I've been outside the UK for decades and am currently applying for my pension. Other than a partial state pension, I have a very small paid-up pension. Since non-residents don't get a personal allowance, it looks as though I'll have to pay 20% tax on the PUP. Is there any way I can avoid this or claim something that will offset it?

I think you'll find that non-residents do still get a personal-allowance, at present at least, so you'll only be liable to Income-Tax on that part of your UK-arising income, which exceeds the allowance ?

However the tax might be deducted-at-source, by the private-pension provider acting under instructions of HMRC, and need to be reclaimed by completing an annual-return at the year-end.

[Jip99]

I've been outside the UK for decades and am currently applying for my pension. Other than a partial state pension, I have a very small paid-up pension. Since non-residents don't get a personal allowance, it looks as though I'll have to pay 20% tax on the PUP. Is there any way I can avoid this or claim something that will offset it?

What makes you think you will not get the full allowance - you will.

Anyone liable to tax is entitled to an allowance.

This should be resolved during the application process - I suggest you write a covering letter explaining your circumstances (if it is not obvious in the application process)

[Oxx]

Anyone liable to tax is entitled to an allowance.

Really not true. If you check the notes for form SA109 boxes 15 and 16 you'll see (amongst others) that youre not entitled to personal allowances if:

(1) You're a resident of Kenya, Mauritius or Zambia;

(2) You're a resident but not a citizen, of Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg, Portugal, Sweden or Switzerland and your income consists solely of dividends, interest and royalties (or a combination of both).

There are lots of other circumstances, but for present purposes those two examples suffice.

As a non-resident the key points for getting an allowance are that you're either a British citizen, or your country has an appropriate DTA with the UK.

[Jip99]

Anyone liable to tax is entitled to an allowance.

Really not true. If you check the notes for form SA109 boxes 15 and 16 you'll see (amongst others) that youre not entitled to personal allowances if:

(1) You're a resident of Kenya, Mauritius or Zambia;

(2) You're a resident but not a citizen, of Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg, Portugal, Sweden or Switzerland and your income consists solely of dividends, interest and royalties (or a combination of both).

There are lots of other circumstances, but for present purposes those two examples suffice.

As a non-resident the key points for getting an allowance are that you're either a British citizen, or your country has an appropriate DTA with the UK.

Indeed.

As this is a Thailand forum you will understand the assumption that you were resident in Thailand.

Certainly, I would not be asking for advice on a Thai forum if I were not resident here!!