Self-Defense Within Your Home

[necronx99]

^^

Yes. If you don't kill them, the intruder will just sue you.

And Sing_Sling, it's not the education system at fault...it's just that both Americans and Thais share the same view, there is no rest of the world outside of the respective country.

I think he was referring to your guess that Aussies have a hygiene problem. Everybody knows it's the Poms and Frogs who are allergic to bathing.

I'm going to sum this thread up.

In Thailand;

Weapons in public of any sort are not allowed, use of a weapon in a fight will get you in the shit.

In your home, yes you can have a gun (Thai or Farang) you just need a permit. Farangs CAN get a permit.

In your home you may use any reasonable force required to defend your life or property.

This includes shooting a Trespasser/Thief/Assailant.

If you think your life or the life of your family is in danger then thinking about the legality of your actions is silly. You can get out of jail, you can't get out of dead.

Think deterence before defense.

Fences, locks, yappy or bitey dogs, sensor lights, alarms. Make your home a harder, less atractive target then your neighbors.

If you do not think you can defend yourself physically, a saferoom or a running away plan is your best option.

If that fails, the best home defensive weapon is a shotgun, then a handgun.

My preference for the latter is the Taurus Judge which is both.

If you can't get or don't like guns, a hunting slingshot is not a bad range weapon but it requires skill.

Wasp spray, Bear spray or mace can be useful.

Now we are down to melee weapons, best is a spear or solid staff, then you are into swords, machete's, bats, knifes, stun guns. All of which are last resort because you need to be in proximity to your attacker. If you lack skill running away may be prefereable to all these options.

[David48]

I'm going to sum this thread up ...

necronx99 ... you've got a knack of doing that and a great job to boot!

Well done and saved me going through the umdeenth pages to get to your summary.

In the Future, could you please be more proactive and post your summary (of the posts that will be written) in the first reply post ... that would save me a lot of time.

[submaniac]

Yes, Necron did a very good job summarizing the on topic points of the thread.

Submaniac will summarize the remainder of the 8 pages of off-topic discussion in which we have learned

1. Americans really really really like guns.

2.The British and the French don't like soap.

3. The Australians do not like being mistaken for British.

4. The rules of cricket.

5. "Catapult" in British English means "Slingshot" in American English.

6. Do not keep bottles of petrol in your fridge.

7. Great Britain is the Island, and the United Kingdom is the island plus Northern Ireland.

8. There's different "countries" in Great Britain, but you don't need a passport and visa to move around in Great Britain.

9. The Americans are nicknamed after septic tanks.

I also found it refreshing that we could have a legitimate civilized discussion without getting into a heated flame war. I note that not a single post was deleted. And I would thank the moderators for indulging our "off topic" discussions.

[endure]

8. There's different "countries" in Great Britain, but you don't need a passport and visa to move around in Great Britain.

99% - there's different countries (as in different legal entities) in Great Britain. Your quote marks make them appear as though they're fluffy and ephemeral. They aren't - lots of people died to establish them.

[submaniac]

The objections by the British representative are duly noted. I stand corrected. Number 8 shall be revised:

8. There's different countries in Great Britain, but you don't need a passport and visa to move around in Great Britain.

I note that the British take exception to the use of quotation in regards to the use of the word countries. I also note that there has not been a denial of the Australian allegations of "soap dodging" or aversion to bathing. Interesting.

Edited March 21, 2012 by submaniac

[Sing_Sling]

The objections by the British representative are duly noted. I stand corrected. Number 8 shall be revised:

8. There's different countries in Great Britain, but you don't need a passport and visa to move around in Great Britain.

I note that the British take exception to the use of quotation in regards to the use of the word countries. I also note that there has not been a denial of the Australian allegations of "soap dodging" or aversion to bathing. Interesting.

The objections by the British representative are duly noted. I stand corrected. Number 8 shall be revised:

8. There's different countries in Great Britain, but you don't need a passport and visa to move around in Great Britain.

I note that the British take exception to the use of quotation in regards to the use of the word countries. I also note that there has not been a denial of the Australian allegations of "soap dodging" or aversion to bathing. Interesting.

Soap-Dodging is a national sport in England . . . hence the cropping up of jokes like fungus under an Englshman's armpits:

What is the best place to hide money from an Englishman, aka Pom or Pommy bastard, . . . . under the soap

Carry on . . .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Keep in mind that "the law" in Thailand is much more abstract and theoretical, and often pertains only tangentially to practical reality. Given that, it is true here as in most places that you have the right to defend yourself, and the concept of "your home is your castle" is just as true here as it is back home. In usual practice (Thai on Thai) as long as there is evidence of forced entry and no suspicious personal connection, the homeowner will usually get away with murder, IMO much more than most western countries (except some bizarrely permissive places like Texas and Florida).

However, in practice, I think it would be very rare for a farang killing a Thai to be treated objectively, just due to the natural tendency to give "us" benefit of the doubt and be more suspicious of "them" outsiders.

In my opinion, many many cases where farang die in mysterious circumstances are due to them either threatening the local police/mafia activities, or being a pure victim of their schemes. In which case there is little chance of any laws being relevant to the practical outcome.

Where a low-level (non-"connected") criminal Thai is victimizing a completely innocent farang, then I think the odds are pretty good the law will be applied as it would be for a Thai-on-Thai scenario. Especially if you're perceived as a decent, law-abiding, reasonably wealthy farang, and most especially if you're willing to spread a little money around to "facilitate a proper investigation".

Except in areas where there are a lot of westerners, like Pattaya or Phuket, where the odds of this would IMO be much lower and/or the price for justice much higher.

Of course if you go to the trouble of building good relationships with powerful people in advance, then the lack of objectivity will work in your favor. If you're truly good friends or a valuable business partner with a high-up in the local power structure, you can probably kill insignificant people with impunity just like them.

In my opinion it's best to just live your life so you don't present much of a target - live as though you don't have much money. And take all reasonable precautions to protect yourself. And of course don't engage in activities where you're competing with powerful people, doubly true for illegal stuff.

If you follow these guidelines, IMO you're much safer here than you are living in the US or even the UK. Not so much compared to say northern Europe or Singapore.

In any case I would advise against owning a gun, even if you can do so legally.

[ollyKS]

^^

Yes. If you don't kill them, the intruder will just sue you.

And Sing_Sling, it's not the education system at fault...it's just that both Americans and Thais share the same view, there is no rest of the world outside of the respective country.

This is not just in Thailand and America. It is pretty much everywhere but north-west Europe and the old colonies. I have had conversations with very educated Janese people who can speak fluent English that are entirely baffled as to why anyone would want to leave their home country, let alone go and live somewhere else.

-OKS

[connda]

^^

Yes. If you don't kill them, the intruder will just sue you.

And Sing_Sling, it's not the education system at fault...it's just that both Americans and Thais share the same view, there is no rest of the world outside of the respective country.

I think he was referring to your guess that Aussies have a hygiene problem. Everybody knows it's the Poms and Frogs who are allergic to bathing.

I'm going to sum this thread up.

In Thailand;

Weapons in public of any sort are not allowed, use of a weapon in a fight will get you in the shit.

In your home, yes you can have a gun (Thai or Farang) you just need a permit. Farangs CAN get a permit.

In your home you may use any reasonable force required to defend your life or property.

This includes shooting a Trespasser/Thief/Assailant.

If you think your life or the life of your family is in danger then thinking about the legality of your actions is silly. You can get out of jail, you can't get out of dead.

Think deterence before defense.

Fences, locks, yappy or bitey dogs, sensor lights, alarms. Make your home a harder, less atractive target then your neighbors.

If you do not think you can defend yourself physically, a saferoom or a running away plan is your best option.

If that fails, the best home defensive weapon is a shotgun, then a handgun.

My preference for the latter is the Taurus Judge which is both.

If you can't get or don't like guns, a hunting slingshot is not a bad range weapon but it requires skill.

Wasp spray, Bear spray or mace can be useful.

Now we are down to melee weapons, best is a spear or solid staff, then you are into swords, machete's, bats, knifes, stun guns. All of which are last resort because you need to be in proximity to your attacker. If you lack skill running away may be prefereable to all these options.

+1 Nice summary!

[necronx99]

In any case I would advise against owning a gun, even if you can do so legally.

In some cases having a gun adds to your security burden as the weapon itself can be a target.

Threatening someone with a gun will induce flight or fight, in the wrong situation it can escalate a bad situation to a worse one.

Then there is your own personal ability to use it effectively in the right situation.

In most cases you will live out your entire life never being in a life threatening situation where a gun would save your life or where the reward for wielding one would be worth the potential for negative consequences.

The one time you do need one however, the lack will cost your life.

It's a risk reward thing.

Don't get one if you are not sure that you can pull the trigger if you point it at someone, never point it at someone if you don't have the will to kill them.

If you have one keep it secret, don't pull it out as a show'n'tell item every time someone visits.

And don't get one until you also have all the other deterrents in place, it should always be the last resort of a layered security system.

Edited March 21, 2012 by necronx99

[wana]

i heard a thai can legally own a gun for self defense and if necessary shoot a burglar and that is legal

of course ,if a farang shoots a thai burglar ,everything might be completely differnt

check this with a laywer before you shoot anyone though !

Tip. Aim on the lower parts of the body (legs)

does that mean you cant legally shoot a burglar in the testicles ?

[Sing_Sling]

i heard a thai can legally own a gun for self defense and if necessary shoot a burglar and that is legal

of course ,if a farang shoots a thai burglar ,everything might be completely differnt

check this with a laywer before you shoot anyone though !

Tip. Aim on the lower parts of the body (legs)

does that mean you cant legally shoot a burglar in the testicles ?

Depends on how low they're hanging, perhaps

[endure]

The objections by the British representative are duly noted. I stand corrected. Number 8 shall be revised:

8. There's different countries in Great Britain, but you don't need a passport and visa to move around in Great Britain.

I note that the British take exception to the use of quotation in regards to the use of the word countries. I also note that there has not been a denial of the Australian allegations of "soap dodging" or aversion to bathing. Interesting.

It's a British journalese practice to use quotes marks when trying to pass off the dubious as fact. As far as the soap dodging is concerned I bathe every week whether I need to or not!

[PingManDan]

We have a Glock 9mm in wife's name and in case of an intruder in the house I will not hesitate to use it.

Sounds about like my same thoughts, about using my S&W 9mm. One shot, one kill, mop up blood, body in bag, take in country, dig shallow grave, dump ass_hole in it, and cover.

Edited March 22, 2012 by PingManDan

[endure]

We have a Glock 9mm in wife's name and in case of an intruder in the house I will not hesitate to use it.

Sounds about like my same thoughts, about using my S&W 9mm. One shot, one kill, mop up blood, body in bag, take in country, dig shallow grave, dump ass_hole in it, and cover.

And what if it's the next door neighbour who's pissed and stumbles into your unlocked back door by mistake?

[flying]

Sounds about like my same thoughts, about using my S&W 9mm. One shot, one kill,

Ping your confusing a 9mm with a 45ACP

[Sing_Sling]

I'm amazed by all the well 'ard men on here . . . just shoot the bastards, cut 'em up and get rid of the body . . . then sit down for a full English or grits.

Well 'ard . . . the world's retired special forces all living in Thailand

[inthepink]

Move to Thailand and reinvent yourself.

[IanForbes]

I'm amazed by all the well 'ard men on here . . . just shoot the bastards, cut 'em up and get rid of the body . . . then sit down for a full English or grits.

Well 'ard . . . the world's retired special forces all living in Thailand

Well, considering all the special forces that were here during the Vietnam war it wouldn't surprise me if Thailand had a fair number still around. When I first came to Thailand 15 years ago there were some pretty hard characters living well out in the sticks and away from most city life. The guys were lean, brown and muscled. None of them said too much and didn't want to talk about the past, and I sure wouldn't want to mess with any of them.

[inthepink]

I'm amazed by all the well 'ard men on here . . . just shoot the bastards, cut 'em up and get rid of the body . . . then sit down for a full English or grits.

Well 'ard . . . the world's retired special forces all living in Thailand

Well, considering all the special forces that were here during the Vietnam war it wouldn't surprise me if Thailand had a fair number still around. When I first came to Thailand 15 years ago there were some pretty hard characters living well out in the sticks and away from most city life. The guys were lean, brown and muscled. None of them said too much and didn't want to talk about the past, and I sure wouldn't want to mess with any of them.

I think the key point in your post is that, "none of them said too much". I doubt many of them used to talk about the size of their semi-automatic pistols in public. (ooh-err missus)

[Sing_Sling]

I'm amazed by all the well 'ard men on here . . . just shoot the bastards, cut 'em up and get rid of the body . . . then sit down for a full English or grits.

Well 'ard . . . the world's retired special forces all living in Thailand

Well, considering all the special forces that were here during the Vietnam war it wouldn't surprise me if Thailand had a fair number still around. When I first came to Thailand 15 years ago there were some pretty hard characters living well out in the sticks and away from most city life. The guys were lean, brown and muscled. None of them said too much and didn't want to talk about the past, and I sure wouldn't want to mess with any of them.

I'm amazed by all the well 'ard men on here . . . just shoot the bastards, cut 'em up and get rid of the body . . . then sit down for a full English or grits.

Well 'ard . . . the world's retired special forces all living in Thailand

Well, considering all the special forces that were here during the Vietnam war it wouldn't surprise me if Thailand had a fair number still around. When I first came to Thailand 15 years ago there were some pretty hard characters living well out in the sticks and away from most city life. The guys were lean, brown and muscled. None of them said too much and didn't want to talk about the past, and I sure wouldn't want to mess with any of them.

As inthepink already mentioned - those that are/were have no need to advertise the fact because there is always someone bigger, stronger and better than you who would like nothing more than to prove himself.

When I was in the navy - admittedly only for two years and then out as an Lt and 80% of that in Brussels - we had, at times, some special forces guys, mainly frogmen/demolition people . . . the last thing they ever wanted was to fight . . . anyone.

Nah, what we have here are a collection of life-long Nigels; public servants in HM Postal Service, carpenters who just got divorced from their wife and can now be 'men', retired sales assistants at Woolworth/Tesco/Coles from the soft furnishings department.

[cheeryble]

I recall a few years back a foreigner chased and drowned a Thai after a nasty attempt to break into a house. There's an old thread about it somewhere on the forum. If my failing memory serves me right the police didn't charge him as it was self defence.

I think in that case the Thai wife was shot and very seriously injured at the front gate. Her husband, the foreigner was also shot as he grappled with the shooter and drowned him in a drain next to the house. As far as I know he was never charged with anything.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Would be fascinated to get a link to that.....

[klikster]

Way back when, there was a former SAS guy on here who claimed that he beat up a couple of burglars that were in his house and ended up getting charged for it.

Did he live Pattaya by any chances and some of his closest associates were ex-navy seals, CIA and ninja's

Of course he did, just go to any bar in Pattaya, you will surely find several ex SAS and ex Navy Seals.

Just be a bit careful about taking the p*ss toward them -- some are the real deal.

[wana]

Way back when, there was a former SAS guy on here who claimed that he beat up a couple of burglars that were in his house and ended up getting charged for it.

Did he live Pattaya by any chances and some of his closest associates were ex-navy seals, CIA and ninja's

Of course he did, just go to any bar in Pattaya, you will surely find several ex SAS and ex Navy Seals.

Just be a bit careful about taking the p*ss toward them -- some are the real deal.

so what ? they are not navy seals anymore and have no more rights than a tuk tuk driver over here

[chrisinth]

If anyone is still interested in home security, there is a BTS security guard just lost his job at Prompong Station. 45 kg soaking wet, doesn't take up much space and improvises well.

Attack word is apperantly "balloons".

Not recommended if you have small children or Irishmen frequenting your property.

[inthepink]

Way back when, there was a former SAS guy on here who claimed that he beat up a couple of burglars that were in his house and ended up getting charged for it.

Did he live Pattaya by any chances and some of his closest associates were ex-navy seals, CIA and ninja's

Of course he did, just go to any bar in Pattaya, you will surely find several ex SAS and ex Navy Seals.

Just be a bit careful about taking the p*ss toward them -- some are the real deal.

I don't know about Navy Seals but anybody who tells you they were in "the SAS", wasn't.

[pastitche]

I hope the TV anti-gun lobby don’t roll in and destroy this thread as they did another recently.

as arnold once said in "red heat " about liberal policiticians : Shoot them First !

What are the chances of this kind of home invasion happening? I'm so macho I will kill anyone who breaks into my house and I'll use a bigger gun than yours......

[wana]

the amount of "bodyguards for royalty " "sas" ,"Navy Seals ","Special

Forces " and martial artist former world champions i meet in bars in thaialnd

is astronomical,the drunker they get they higher their rank was

thailand must be the mecca for these people to come over when their special missions

and world championship title defenses are completed

[pastitche]

^^ Yes. The law and procedure has been discussed before in Thaivisa. I should not have said "Thais & Falang" and should have said "Thai nationals and non-Thai nationals".

And Sing-Sling, I guess I was wrong about you being a part of the anti-gun lobby. Let's say you break out yer ol' .30-06 and a we go a huntin' in the backwoods for some grub. Yeeeeeeeehhaaaaaaw.

You proclaim your Thai nationality but admit to your US upbringing where the pro gun lobby is far more powerful than elsewhere. Please accept that there are members on here who do not accept that gun ownership is a worthwhile social value or constitutional right. Multiple murders by legal gun owners are far more common in the US than in countries where possession of such lethal weapons is more strictly controlled.

Whilst there is an emotional response to "what can I do if burglars break into my home, when my wife and children are sleeping?" , the chances of that are small. Most break-ins take place when there is no-one in the house and a gun is just another valuable item to steal

[inthepink]

A gun in your home, under lock and key - Yes.

A gun in a holster, under your jacket - No.

Just my opinion.