Self-Defense Within Your Home

[inthepink]

This is a visual comparison between the United Kingdom, the United States, and the State of Texas

What you deem to be a pithy comment is a result of me legitimately not knowing exactly the difference between Great Britain, the United Kingdom, and Britain. It was a result of YOU making the foregoing comment:

(I was talking about Great Britain, not the UK but I still don't see how those stats support your argument)

There have been alot of previous comments on other threads to the effect of "I'm not British...I'm Welsh"..."I'm not British...I'm Scottish"...Apparently England, Scotland, and Wales are deemed to be different "countries", and frankly for those of us who do not live there, do not understand the purported difference in the administration of your various "countries". The entire land mass of the UK is smaller than the State of Texas, or California, and the "countries" of England, Wales, and Scotland are smaller in land mass than counties (no "r") in the United States. The city of Los Angeles has a larger population either than the country of Wales or Scotland. So pardon me for not really understanding the differences between Great Britain and the U.K., Scotland vs. Britain vs. Wales vs. Ireland, and what "home office" statistics are for which countries.

I'd also like to to add, that you seem to be implying that prior to the 1997 Firearms Act, the laws concerning gun ownership in the UK and the USA were similar, which as I am sure you already know they were not. If you want to have a rational discussion then please don't bend the facts to suit your agenda. If you are truly interested in the effects of gun control laws on homicide rates with guns, you need to take into account the 1920, 1937 and 1968 Firearm Acts as well as various other pieces of legislation.

The statistics that I cited previously, go back to 1857. http://scienceblogs....ional-00028.php I did not list all the years due to the size it would take up in the post. The homicide rate in 1857 was 1.26 per 100k.

The 1968 Firearms Act was in 1968. In 1987 The "Hungerford" Massacres occurred in which Michael Ryan armed with an Chinese variant AK pattern rifle, an M1 carbine, and a Beretta handgun killed 17 people. In 1988, the firearms act was amended to ban ALL semi automatic, centerfire rifles. In 1996, Thomas Hamilton armed with 4 handguns killed 18 people in the "Dunblane" massacre. In 1997 the firearms act was changed making handguns illegal.

If you look at the home office statistics, the outlawing of firearms had, statistically, no effect whatsoever on the overall homicide rate. Per your own statistics, the homicide rate in Great Britain involving firearms is 0.105 people, while the homicide rate is still (per your claims) 1.1 per 100k people...which gets back to my point, even without firearms people will find alternative means to kill each other.

Beat the government in a fair fight . . . groups of 30-odd semi-literate rednecks against the most powerful army in history . . .

See "Randy Weaver" and "Ruby Ridge". 1 man with 1 rifle managed to hold back several hundred of the United State's finest for 10 days.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Randy_Weaver

The only reason I pointed out that I was referring to Great Britain rather than the UK was because gun ownership has always been higher in Northern Ireland and I therefore wanted to make it clear that this area was excluded in the figures I was quoting. Whilst connda may believe that you are simply putting across an alternate viewpoint to my own and I am sad for calling you names, I'm not sure this is true. (I did not expect you to know the difference, but I should think you know how to use google - it would only take a few seconds to find out for yourself, IF you were actually interested)

I apologise for calling you an ignoramus but your comparison of the geographical size of Great Britain to that of Texas makes you sound a little stupid to be honest, as it is plainly irrelevant and ridiculous. I am sure you are aware of the historical significance of the country to which we are referring, you do after all speak English. Are you honestly saying that you only learn about large land masses in American schools and skip those that you consider too small to bother about?

Lastly, you are not putting across an alternate point of view to mine, because I don't have one (apart from my belief that armed police on the streets is not necessarily a good thing but you don't seem to want to discuss that).

Edited March 19, 2012 by inthepink

[onionluke]

Here's one for SC and le blether . It only works if you have a lisp .

Randy Reaver of Ruby Ridge had a repeating rifle , and a reserve revolver .

[rgs2001uk]

Here's one for SC and le blether . It only works if you have a lisp .

Randy Reaver of Ruby Ridge had a repeating rifle , and a reserve revolver .

Didnt know either of them were from Surin.

Landy Leaver of Luby Lidge had a lepeating lifen and a leserf levolva.

[onionluke]

Here's one for SC and le blether . It only works if you have a lisp .

Randy Reaver of Ruby Ridge had a repeating rifle , and a reserve revolver .

Didnt know either of them were from Surin.

Landy Leaver of Luby Lidge had a lepeating lifen and a leserf levolva.

Awound wi wagged wock wi wugged wascle wan . Back in the days of black and white science fiction television , being capable of repeating that flawlessly over and over proved one to be of sound mind and not bonkers .

[onionluke]

Here's one for SC and le blether . It only works if you have a lisp .

Randy Reaver of Ruby Ridge had a repeating rifle , and a reserve revolver .

Didnt know either of them were from Surin.

Landy Leaver of Luby Lidge had a lepeating lifen and a leserf levolva.

Awound wi wagged wock wi wugged wascle wan . Back in the days of black and white science fiction television , being capable of repeating that flawlessly over and over proved one to be of sound mind and not bonkers .

Edit ; And therefore fit to own a sharp machete .

[connda]

To all the posters, thank you for explaining the rather complicated and convoluted British system to me.

Next step is explaining the rules of cricket to you . . .

So what you're saying is that the US has a higher homicide rate because of guns? Yes? No?

Of course - and to dispute that would be to fly in the face of logic and reason.

It's time to fly in the face of logic.

Reseach by Daly, et.al, show a significant correlation between "income inequality" and homicide rates. (Daly, Martin; Wilson, Margo and Vasdev, Shawn. (2001) "Income Inequality and Homicide Rates in Canada and the United States" Canadian Journal of Criminology 43: pp.219-36)

This chart will not size correctly, but you can find image at http://www.equalityt...s/figure-1.png.

If you look at this graph you'll notice that the Canadian and American data points are grouped in a manner that show Canada with a lower homicide rate and America with a higher homicide rate. The X axis on this chart is income inequality within the general population. Canada has lower income inequality than American; Canada has a lower homicide rate than America.

You Brits have been postulating that the stats show that "guns" are the factor driving the higher homicide rates. This study indicates it is a totally unrelated set of factors.

Using the statistics published by your "Home Office", there is no significant decrease in the homicide rate as a result of banning guy ownership. It would be nice to have data points from the "Home Office" or another source from 1993 through to the present, but based on the one data point of 2002 = 1.05, the data looks uniform:1978 = 1.09; 1981 = 1.12; 1983 = 1.11. Guns were outlaws in 1997 and effectively did not alter the overall homicide rate.

So essentially homicides increase as income inequality increases. Take guns out of the equation and homicides stay uniform. This indicates that those people prone to violence change their weapons of choice to that which is readily available, then they continue killing. So instead of getting shot, you get bludgeoned to death or stabbed.

Taking guns away for the general populace simply disarms the "law abiding" citizens who may wish to protect themselves.

We'll probably see if this research is valid over the next 5 to 10 years. Income inequality seem to be accelerating world-wide. The rich get richer -- the middle class and lower class take the brunt of austerity. Crime accelerates. Will homicides?

Edited March 19, 2012 by connda

[Sing_Sling]

You Brits

OI! Enough of the name-calling, let's keep the discussion civil.

Fly, mate. Fly.

I'll give you one scenario . . . let's just make this one up as it would never happen.

Location; a post-office.

Nah, too mundane. Umm, a school. A high school. Two kids come to school and kill 13 kids, wounding 23 others and then kill themselves . . . with baseball bats.

Nah . . with a knife.

Nah . . two knives

Nah . . . a fork (isn't that a favourite example of the pro-gun lobby?)

Two duvets and a eider down pillow?

[connda]

You Brits

OI! Enough of the name-calling, let's keep the discussion civil.

Fly, mate. Fly.

I'll give you one scenario . . . let's just make this one up as it would never happen.

Location; a post-office.

Nah, too mundane. Umm, a school. A high school. Two kids come to school and kill 13 kids, wounding 23 others and then kill themselves . . . with baseball bats.

Nah . . with a knife.

Nah . . two knives

Nah . . . a fork (isn't that a favourite example of the pro-gun lobby?)

Two duvets and a eider down pillow?

"Brit" is a disparaging term? I use Brit to refer to all my British friends. Never had one tell me that was in insult. You crack me up dude! Ha ha ha! Your pulling my leg. That was good!

But anyway, what do you think about the study. Interesting stuff, huh? I need to take a look at the Thai homicide rates and see if they also correlate.

Edited March 19, 2012 by connda

[endure]

"Brit" is a disparaging term? I use Brit to refer to all my British friends. Never had one tell me that was in insult. You crack me up dude! Ha ha ha! Your pulling my leg. That was good!

It's like 'farang'. Depends how you use it...

[IanForbes]

We've sure wandered a long way off the topic of self defense within your home in Thailand. However, I always did enjoy that simple explanation for the rules of cricket.

You're still not going to stop crime wherever you choose to live. Having an expensive high life style in an area where poverty is rampant is a sure way to make yourself a target. As already pointed out on this topic there is a direct correlation between poverty and crime. Add guns into the mix and the crimes are likely to become more serious.

[connda]

We've sure wandered a long way off the topic of self defense within your home in Thailand. However, I always did enjoy that simple explanation for the rules of cricket.

You're still not going to stop crime wherever you choose to live. Having an expensive high life style in an area where poverty is rampant is a sure way to make yourself a target. As already pointed out on this topic there is a direct correlation between poverty and crime. Add guns into the mix and the crimes are likely to become more serious.

Nicely put!

Edited March 19, 2012 by connda

[nickmanchester2]

stickman suggested a bottle of petrol in the fridge to throw on the intruder!

I used to have a spear gun for fishing - a loaded on one these is a good weapon out of water as well - i am pretty sure its legal to own - I used to drive around with it on my bike on the way to fishing in the ocean with no problems from the police when they saw me - you can buy them in plenty of fishing shops, looks a bit more threatening than a catapult!

[submaniac]

stickman suggested a bottle of petrol in the fridge to throw on the intruder!

Uh...don't follow Stickman suggestions.

[Sing_Sling]

stickman suggested a bottle of petrol in the fridge to throw on the intruder!

Uh...don't follow Stickman suggestions.

stickman suggested a bottle of petrol in the fridge to throw on the intruder!

Uh...don't follow Stickman suggestions.

Any? Why not?

[autan]

You have got to be kidding me. Did someone actually suggest taking on an intruder with a catapult ?

So let me get this straight, an intruder comes into your home, looking to rob and/or kill you and you fire an object at him from a little catapult.

Well good luck with that one. Your gonna get battered senseless, not killed he wont be able to stop laughing at you to kill you.

<deleted> Catapult. Whatever next.

[necronx99]

You have got to be kidding me. Did someone actually suggest taking on an intruder with a catapult ?

So let me get this straight, an intruder comes into your home, looking to rob and/or kill you and you fire an object at him from a little catapult.

Well good luck with that one. Your gonna get battered senseless, not killed he wont be able to stop laughing at you to kill you.

<deleted> Catapult. Whatever next.

Think he means one of these,which will put a ball bearing straight through you. People hunt with them.

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Hunting_SlingShots_s/213.htm

But given the choice I would take my Mossberg pump of course.

[submaniac]

I love the Brits...refreshingly absurd.

The Yanks? Would use a gun. If not possible to obtain gun, probably use an baseball bat, a knife...you know stuff that would get things done.

The Brits? Catapults (slingshots), bottles of petrol in the fridge.

As for the catapult (slingshot), yes a well placed shot could possibly kill a person, if it is a well placed shot (maybe). If you are unable to immediately kill the intruder, all you're going to be left with is a very irritated intruder who've you just shot with a slingshot.

The petrol in the fridge idea concerns me. First off, I don't like the idea of having essentially a Molotov cocktail in my fridge. Secondly, if you've ever ran out of gas and had to fill up a plastic gas can, you'll realize that no matter how careful you are, the surrounding area will stink of gasoline. Thirdly, you do realize that the plastic used in a plastic gas can is a special type of plastic that is designed not to be dissolved by gasoline (so a soda bottle probably wouldn't work). Fourthly, petrol in a small bottle may be good for throwing on one person, but if there's two, you may have a problem. Fifthly, there is a good chance in an emergency, throwing the gasoline on someone would probably result on gasoline being spilled on yourself. (Go try it. Fill a bottle with water and try to effectively douse someone with it; I just don't think it would work.)

Edited March 20, 2012 by submaniac

[wana]

You have got to be kidding me. Did someone actually suggest taking on an intruder with a catapult ?

So let me get this straight, an intruder comes into your home, looking to rob and/or kill you and you fire an object at him from a little catapult.

Well good luck with that one. Your gonna get battered senseless, not killed he wont be able to stop laughing at you to kill you.

<deleted> Catapult. Whatever next.

catapult no , 6" flat head screwdriver through the gut ,YES !

petrol in the fridge ,no - skull split open with a claw hammer ,YES !

[flying]

The petrol in the fridge idea concerns me.

Having read many posts over the years here on TV & guessing many

of the writers are drunk when they post... I would be more concerned they might accidentally drink

it one night while on a binge

[ShodomonRules]

Connda:

1 hole; 1 bag of lime; 1 week.

[Sing_Sling]

stickman suggested a bottle of petrol in the fridge to throw on the intruder!

Uh...don't follow Stickman suggestions.

Well? An en gros statement like that . . . Why not follow his suggestions, providing they don't include keeping petrol in the fridge, of course.

"Brit" is a disparaging term? I use Brit to refer to all my British friends. Never had one tell me that was in insult. You crack me up dude! Ha ha ha! Your pulling my leg. That was good!

It's like 'farang'. Depends how you use it...

An insult? Absolutely . . . Never call an Aussie a Brit . . .

Edited March 20, 2012 by Sing_Sling

[submaniac]

An insult? Absolutely . . . Never call an Aussie a Brit . . .

Yes, I guess that would be an insult to an Aussie.

[necronx99]

An insult? Absolutely . . . Never call an Aussie a Brit . . .

Yes, I guess that would be an insult to an Aussie.

Fightin' words for sure.

But then we do call Yanks "Septics"....

[chrisinth]

You have got to be kidding me. Did someone actually suggest taking on an intruder with a catapult ?

So let me get this straight, an intruder comes into your home, looking to rob and/or kill you and you fire an object at him from a little catapult.

Well good luck with that one. Your gonna get battered senseless, not killed he wont be able to stop laughing at you to kill you.

<deleted> Catapult. Whatever next.

If I have one in my hand, don't come visiting unanounced in the wee hours! The link below is the first one I opened, but I have known and used the black widows for many years, and would not like to be on the end of them. The ones displayed don't seem to have the arm support; these are lethal weapons.

Drawback, only one shot, make it count!

http://www.abarchery...w-catapult.html

EDIT: Just look at the coke can at the end of the clip (this isn't tampered with, this is the power of the black widow)

Edited March 20, 2012 by chrisinth

[submaniac]

But then we do call Yanks "Septics"....

Because of the un-Aussie like penchant for hygiene?

And how can you have a mossberg from OZ? I thought they were banned there too.

[necronx99]

But then we do call Yanks "Septics"....

Because of the un-Aussie like penchant for hygiene?

And how can you have a mossberg from OZ? I thought they were banned there too.

Yanks = Septic Tanks , rhyming slang was popular.

As for the mossberg, what they don't know won't hurt them. Well it might in this case.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Sing_Sling]

We aren't known as 'soap-dodgers' . . . well, I guess that 's to be expected from a nation whose inhabitants find it difficult to fins their own country on a globe . . . just like Thais!

[Semper]

i heard a thai can legally own a gun for self defense and if necessary shoot a burglar and that is legal

of course ,if a farang shoots a thai burglar ,everything might be completely differnt

check this with a laywer before you shoot anyone though !

Tip. Aim on the lower parts of the body (legs)

[necronx99]

i heard a thai can legally own a gun for self defense and if necessary shoot a burglar and that is legal

of course ,if a farang shoots a thai burglar ,everything might be completely differnt

check this with a laywer before you shoot anyone though !

Tip. Aim on the lower parts of the body (legs)

Better tip, don't leave anyone to testify.

Never shoot to wound.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[submaniac]

^^

Yes. If you don't kill them, the intruder will just sue you.

And Sing_Sling, it's not the education system at fault...it's just that both Americans and Thais share the same view, there is no rest of the world outside of the respective country.