Red Shirt Chairwoman Thida: No Need For Experts In Constitution Drafting Assembly

[webfact]

No need for experts in CDA: Thida

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- The chairwoman of the red-shirt movement yesterday proposed a constitution drafting assembly (CDA) consisting of 100 elected members, and called for a new constitution that represents the interests of all political groups.

Thida Thawornseth said the red shirts wanted all 100 members of the CDA to be elected "to ensure that the new constitution belongs to the people". She added that there was no need for experts to take part in drafting the charter. "Experts are not more important than people," she said. "We have to see this constitution as one that belongs to all political colours. It is an important step for sustainable reconciliation. We must give the most rights to the people and should not treat one group better than others when it involves rights and liberties."

She was among representatives of civil groups that submitted separate bills on constitutional amendment. Their bills were not deliberated by Parliament, which recently approved three other amendment bills sponsored by the Cabinet, the ruling Pheu Thai Party and the coalition Chart Thai Pattana Party. The bills seek to amend Article 291 of the charter to allow establishment of a 99-member CDA to draft a new constitution, with 77 elected members - one for each province - and the remaining 22 being experts in law, political science and public administration appointed by Parliament.

Thida and other representatives from civil society groups yesterday presented their ideas to the ad-hoc parliamentary committee vetting constitutional amendment drafts.

Gothom Arya, from Mahidol University's Institute of Human Rights and Peace Studies, yesterday represented academic institutions in proposing ideas about the CDA.

He said recent civil forums agreed that all CDA members should be elected according to the size of the population, ranging from 175 to 225. Gothom suggested that the CDA's drafting panel should consist of 30 members - 15 elected members, five law experts, five experts in public administration and five former constitution drafters. At least one-third of the members should be women.

Gothom said the CDA should be given 365 days to draft a new charter, and 90 days in which to hold a public referendum.

Pheu Thai MP Samart Kaewmee-chai, chairman of the ad-hoc parliamentary committee vetting constitutional amendment drafts, said after more than three hours of hearings that yesterday's session for representatives from civil society would save the panel time when it came to gathering viewpoints from the people.

-- The Nation 2012-03-23

[BookMan]

Electing all 100 members seems a bit much. Too many agendas. You might up end up with nothing but a bun fight with no coherent outcome.

The 99 member CDA , with 77 elected and the remainder being experts, seems better. Still might be a bun fight of course.

Edited March 22, 2012 by BookMan

[theblether]

It's just a nonsense........an absolute nonsense. You need some semblance of independence and expert opinion to balance out the competing agendas of the politicians. This would make you despair for Thailand.

[Insight]

This place is going to shit.

[jonclark]

Sorry, but why should a constitution represent the interests of political groups? Surely a constitution should represent what is right and proper for the people and the country, not politicos and their agendas. A constitution isn't a tool of politics it should be an ethos that represents the values and principles on which the country will be built. As always Thida shows (lamentably) that she and her followers don't have anything sensible to say so they just talk nonsense to keep them self recent and in the media

[Thai at Heart]

Just copy one from somewhere else. Of course what would a pooyai do if judged by his peers of farmers and noodle stand owners instead of a friendly bendable judge.

[geriatrickid]

This place is going to shit.

Going? Some would say, the train left the station long ago.

[nurofiend]

This place is going to shit.

Going? Some would say, the train left the station long ago.

full of balloons

[mrtoad]

Why need experts, the changes have already been decided in Dubai.

[Valentine]

Elections in this country are compromised by many groups who resort to all sorts of trickery to get their favoured one elected. The 1997 constitution was devised by a group of sincere people & if the spirit of that constitution had been adhered to I doubt there would be this great impasse which Thailand is facing today. However, all the loopholes were subverted & twisted to suit the ends of those in power. Here we are now going through a convoluted mechanism on which no one can agree so IMO there is little hope for genuine reconciliation. The corruption of power & greed continue to rule the day as long as the plebs can get their daily crumbs from the sumptuous banquet which is rapidly heading down the Greek road.

[pimay11]

"Experts are not more important than people," she said.

She does have a way with words. I suppose all experts are non-people. We don't need no education.

[Thai at Heart]

Elections in this country are compromised by many groups who resort to all sorts of trickery to get their favoured one elected. The 1997 constitution was devised by a group of sincere people & if the spirit of that constitution had been adhered to I doubt there would be this great impasse which Thailand is facing today. However, all the loopholes were subverted & twisted to suit the ends of those in power. Here we are now going through a convoluted mechanism on which no one can agree so IMO there is little hope for genuine reconciliation. The corruption of power & greed continue to rule the day as long as the plebs can get their daily crumbs from the sumptuous banquet which is rapidly heading down the Greek road.

Even the experts wrote the 1997 version. The courts are too weak here and swing with the day. There is a crying need for tort reform and a move to precedent law to solidify judgements on a day by day basis. But dont tell me that that is accidental. Those with the most to lose if these changes happened are those at the top and the judges themselves.

[Joeb]

"She added that there was no need for experts to take part in drafting the charter."

That statement by its self is why they need experts.

Quote jonclark - "The 1997 constitution was devised by a group of sincere people & if the spirit of that constitution had been adhered to I doubt there would be this great impasse which Thailand is facing today. However, all the loopholes were subverted & twisted to suit the ends of those in power."

This is why experts are needed. The best intentioned people may create a document which meets the spirit of the law but it requires experts to prepare a document that retains the spirit but plugs the loopholes.

[Valentine]

"She added that there was no need for experts to take part in drafting the charter."

That statement by its self is why they need experts.

Quote jonclark - "The 1997 constitution was devised by a group of sincere people & if the spirit of that constitution had been adhered to I doubt there would be this great impasse which Thailand is facing today. However, all the loopholes were subverted & twisted to suit the ends of those in power."

This is why experts are needed. The best intentioned people may create a document which meets the spirit of the law but it requires experts to prepare a document that retains the spirit but plugs the loopholes.

It goes back to the ongoing problem of how to find a group of impartial experts.

[whybother]

Even the experts wrote the 1997 version. The courts are too weak here and swing with the day. There is a crying need for tort reform and a move to precedent law to solidify judgements on a day by day basis. But dont tell me that that is accidental. Those with the most to lose if these changes happened are those at the top and the judges themselves.

"Precedent Law"

"The precedent is I was paid 1 million baht for that judgement".

[theanimaster]

Spoken like a true red shirt. "We don't need those stupid experts who make a lot of money and keep the country running well financially."

[pipo1000]

Why need experts, the changes have already been decided in Dubai.

You're wrong about that,Chalerm completed them between lunch and dinner,and probably had a bottle of booze at the same time.

[GentlemanJim]

If I was not concerned so much for the future of my children and family It would all be an amazing thing to watch.

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see the agenda being played out in front of us. It seems most farang are vocal about it and most Thais, despite their disagreements with it are accepting of it. It is amazing that in the 21 century we are seeing a nation being divided and prepared for an effective communist dictatorship whilst the world sits back and watches. If ever sanctions were needed the UN should be slapping them all over this country until Thailand can sort out free and fair elections and rid itself of corruption. That menace in Dubai and his self serving family are being allowed to rape and pillage this nation right under the noses of it's people, and the embedded culture here predisposes the people to accept and be damned.

It is no wonder the Thai education system does not encourage or permit children to ask questions. If anyone were to start questioning now it could scuttle the 'Presidents' plan.

An example of how submissive and non-questioning these people are :- two weeks ago a close friend of the family went in for a cesarian operation. Her baby was due and her waters had broken, no great shakes! The Doc takes the woman in and butchers her on the table (screws up and kills her by human error), killing her but saving the baby. The family sat in the waiting room are distraught, the husband now left on his own with 3 children and a baby. The Doc comes out and tells the Husband and family "sorry, when her waters broke, some of the water got in to the blood of the mother and it killed her" !!!! <deleted>! No post-mortem, get her buried and cremated quick! The family now just keep repeating the accepted boll*x that the mother died because some of her waters got in to her blood!

With such a degree of acceptance for perceived authority in this country, I believe it is damned. I really really hope I can think of a few realistic alternative options in the future. Of course should the 'President' come home then within a short space of time all of we Farangs are buggered, especially as these anonymous boards are not anonymous.

Edited March 23, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Thai at Heart]

Even the experts wrote the 1997 version. The courts are too weak here and swing with the day. There is a crying need for tort reform and a move to precedent law to solidify judgements on a day by day basis. But dont tell me that that is accidental. Those with the most to lose if these changes happened are those at the top and the judges themselves.

"Precedent Law"

"The precedent is I was paid 1 million baht for that judgement".

well at leasy everyone could avail themselves of the precedent

[WackySomchai]

"Experts are not more important than people," she said.

She does have a way with words. I suppose all experts are non-people. We don't need no education.

We only need redshirt village education on cheap communist tablets.

[Nickymaster]

^{Khun Thida,}

^{The issue is not who is more important, the issue is who is more capable.}

^{Stop telling your Red followers that they are not important.}

^{I smell propaganda...}

[animatic]

"Experts are not more important than people,"

Experts are peopler also. Would you have people just build a bridge by committee,

or have an expert architect and engineer design and supervise what the people do building it?

This comment is pure ignorance and political pandering to her base,

common sense has nothing to do with it.

The '97 "Peoples Constitution", seemed like a great document at the times,

but contained so many loopholes that it, with Thaksin's help,

is the primary force that has brought us to the impasse we are at today.

Not PAD, Army actions, or Red Shirts, they are all symptoms of the '97's failure.

As noted above a constitution should be the 'hard to change' framework

from which society can BUILD an equitable life for most all citizens,

and not harm greviously the minority that doesn't get their wishes met.

It can't be a document to please all political groups with their competing agendas,

but most moderate ALL AGENDAS for the best interests of ALL.

Experts in constitutional law are mandatory if anything with teeth, compassion,

and closed loopholes is to be drawn up and implemented, and in such a way that

the next political power can't just blithely change it to suit their wishes for it's

increased power and control of graft allocations.

Right now I dispair for such an outcome.

Edited March 23, 2012 by animatic

[animatic]

"Experts are not more important than people," she said.

She does have a way with words. I suppose all experts are non-people. We don't need no education.

We only need redshirt village education on cheap communist tablets.

Yes, bets on whether there is a 'Red Education app' snuck in there?

[bigbamboo]

Another pearl of Thai political wisdom, "Experts are not more important than people". That was the thinking applied in Mao's Great Leap Forward too, one of history's greatest sociopolitical disasters.

Edited March 23, 2012 by bigbamboo

[GentlemanJim]

Another pearl of Thai political wisdom, "Experts are not more important than people". That was the thinking applied in Mao's Great Leap Forward too, one history's greatest social disasters.

Quite! Not also forgetting that Pol Pot was very fond of getting rid of experts.

[Siripon]

Next time a patient turns up at her husband, Dr Weng's, clinic, Thida should recommend the patient goes for treatment to the nearest noodle seller as 'experts are not more important than people'.

[ThaiKiwi]

Elections in this country are compromised by many groups who resort to all sorts of trickery to get their favoured one elected. The 1997 constitution was devised by a group of sincere people & if the spirit of that constitution had been adhered to I doubt there would be this great impasse which Thailand is facing today. However, all the loopholes were subverted & twisted to suit the ends of those in power. Here we are now going through a convoluted mechanism on which no one can agree so IMO there is little hope for genuine reconciliation. The corruption of power & greed continue to rule the day as long as the plebs can get their daily crumbs from the sumptuous banquet which is rapidly heading down the Greek road.

Even the experts wrote the 1997 version. The courts are too weak here and swing with the day. There is a crying need for tort reform and a move to precedent law to solidify judgements on a day by day basis. But dont tell me that that is accidental. Those with the most to lose if these changes happened are those at the top and the judges themselves.

We don't want to forget that the US President will nominate new Supreme Court Judges...

[hellodolly]

Sorry, but why should a constitution represent the interests of political groups? Surely a constitution should represent what is right and proper for the people and the country, not politicos and their agendas. A constitution isn't a tool of politics it should be an ethos that represents the values and principles on which the country will be built. As always Thida shows (lamentably) that she and her followers don't have anything sensible to say so they just talk nonsense to keep them self recent and in the media

Agreed

With the money her boss has they would just buy the vote's and quicker than the blink of a eye Thaksin would be back with all his money returned to him with interest. And all Charges dismissed.

[scorecard]

Elections in this country are compromised by many groups who resort to all sorts of trickery to get their favoured one elected. The 1997 constitution was devised by a group of sincere people & if the spirit of that constitution had been adhered to I doubt there would be this great impasse which Thailand is facing today. However, all the loopholes were subverted & twisted to suit the ends of those in power. Here we are now going through a convoluted mechanism on which no one can agree so IMO there is little hope for genuine reconciliation. The corruption of power & greed continue to rule the day as long as the plebs can get their daily crumbs from the sumptuous banquet which is rapidly heading down the Greek road.

Agree, with emphasis on the 2007 charter, which intended to try to put some serious brakes, and punishment, on vote buying, which is one of the major obstacles to genuine elections, therefore a major obstacle to building something much closer to real democracy which would benefit and respect all Thais.

In fact IMHO, the 2007 punishments set out for vote buying should have been much more severe. Talk to some Thais who are learned of this point and you will quickly gain comments indicating that, unfortunately, the 2007 version didn't go into enough detail of this point and in the last election many parties easily found ways to buy votes.

Also agree, talk which focuses on what would be good for politicians and political parties will take the whole situation backwards. And if the vote buying aspects of the charter are returned to the earlier picture (just one point), then it will be long time before the circumstances will be right to push for any further amendments to stop / to punish vote buying. Additionally, the public at large will become / has become tired of rewrites of the charter, not helpful.

It also seems to me that any amendments put forward now will (deliberately) get little organized and open public discussion. Again, very worrying.

[WhizBang]

Why need experts, the changes have already been decided in Dubai.

You're wrong about that,Chalerm completed them between lunch and dinner,and probably had a bottle of booze at the same time.

Yes, but he was on the phone with Dubai at the time. He simply wrote down what he was told.