Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[mauGR1]

Let us not forget the guys own words where he admits he did wrong and there was nothing he said that even hinted at anything happening before the incident that we already suspect happened (he displayed his anger about not being allowed to pass with the balloons and he got hit with what amounted to a weapon) with of course details missing.

No scenario you mention or has he, in my mind, can excuse his behavior of forcing his way into a public transportation facility after being told not to enter and then going on to assault staff who clearly are not posing him any current threat. Even if all the staff he is trying to attack in the video had hit him for no reason at all prior to the tape rolling and not because he got defiant and refused to adhere to rules, I still could not excuse his behavior. Being mad doesn't give you the right to act this way. Being struck by somebody doesn't entitle you to seek revenge this way. Sorry but it is simply inexcusable and more so because he is behaving this way with his child in tow. But I cannot stress that his behavior in anyway negates any wrongs done to him just as I cannot excuse any wrongs done to him because of his wrong doings.

I am not saying this guy deserves to be shot or deserved to get hit but what I am saying is his actions are not acceptable and there is no excuse for acting the way he did. He was wrong but that by no means indicates other(s) were not also just as wrong and possibly more wrong and we may see that on the tapes.

well i disagree, if you feel you were unjustly walloped on the head by staff in front of your little girl on what was a special day for her and seeing the blood trickle down over your eye... i think it you'd need to be buddha himself to not act aggressively in the aftermath.

a whack on the head like that would send your adrenaline sky-high... what would you have done, just relaxed and smiled at the staff, laughed it all off maybe and ran off into the sunset?.. being so in control of your emotions as you must be.

What i don't understand is his stubborness to bring in the balloons..

And if the balloons were so important, he could have then hired a taxi..My ex wife, very sweet woman, would have me crucified for put the children in danger !.

But, if i try to speculate really hard, and put myself in John's shoes..Well , maybe, being hit from behind would probably make me very very upset.

Just speculating eh..

[nurofiend]

Let us not forget the guys own words where he admits he did wrong and there was nothing he said that even hinted at anything happening before the incident that we already suspect happened (he displayed his anger about not being allowed to pass with the balloons and he got hit with what amounted to a weapon) with of course details missing.

No scenario you mention or has he, in my mind, can excuse his behavior of forcing his way into a public transportation facility after being told not to enter and then going on to assault staff who clearly are not posing him any current threat. Even if all the staff he is trying to attack in the video had hit him for no reason at all prior to the tape rolling and not because he got defiant and refused to adhere to rules, I still could not excuse his behavior. Being mad doesn't give you the right to act this way. Being struck by somebody doesn't entitle you to seek revenge this way. Sorry but it is simply inexcusable and more so because he is behaving this way with his child in tow. But I cannot stress that his behavior in anyway negates any wrongs done to him just as I cannot excuse any wrongs done to him because of his wrong doings.

I am not saying this guy deserves to be shot or deserved to get hit but what I am saying is his actions are not acceptable and there is no excuse for acting the way he did. He was wrong but that by no means indicates other(s) were not also just as wrong and possibly more wrong and we may see that on the tapes.

well i disagree, if you feel you were unjustly walloped on the head by staff in front of your little girl on what was a special day for her and seeing the blood trickle down over your eye... i think it you'd need to be buddha himself to not act aggressively in the aftermath.

a whack on the head like that would send your adrenaline sky-high... what would you have done, just relaxed and smiled at the staff, laughed it all off maybe and ran off into the sunset?.. being so in control of your emotions as you must be.

What i don't understand is his stubborness to bring in the balloons..

And if the balloons were so important, he could have then hired a taxi..My ex wife, very sweet woman, would have me crucified for put the children in danger !.

But, if i try to speculate really hard, and put myself in John's shoes..Well , maybe, being hit from behind would probably make me very very upset.

Just speculating eh..

yes, it's all just speculating atm, without the most important part of the evidence that is.. which is what is annoying me most about people passing harsh judgement on the man

and you don't know the extent of his stubborness tbf until you know all the facts..

nor do i, which is why i'm neither judging him positively or negatively as yet.

tho i can understand that if you had been going through security throughout the day with an item with absolutely no problem and then all of a sudden a different security has a problem with said item, you would be thinking <deleted>? and let the person know your dissatisfaction of this...

add to that it was an item that belonged to your little girl, of sentimental value and on a special day for her.. of course you're going to try and argue a case, considering it wasn't any problem up until then... maybe he thought the security guy was wrong because he had no problems whatsoever with other security in the exact same situation on the same day.

i'd say he got heated about it yes, but ultimately i think the blame on how much the situation 'blew up' lies with whoever committed the first serious assault.. and that we'll have to wait and see about.

because if there was no assault none of us would be typing about it now.

if ye read for instance a headline like "angry farang shouts at staff and kicks over bin for not being allowed on train with balloons, subsequently detained by police"

i don't think there would be much interest, a few puns in a 2 page thread maybe.

[katana]

A witness account from the Burmese lady who was seen in the mobile phone footage helping the daughter, has been appended to the original article.

Starts at "Breaking News - March 26 2012..."

http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=529

[Nisa]

Do you think it is worth saving the video to show your 7 year old children or grandchildren as a teaching tool to show how they should act if they ever get hit or somebody tries to tell them they can't take their balloons on a plane or other public transportation?

Having understanding for the guy being upset is one thing, condoning his behavior is entirely different. And I am far from a Bhudda and got in many fights when I was young and dumb but when I had children I learned to set an example, control my temper and avoid conflict ... now that my children have grown, I've also found this is a much much happier way to live. One way gets you home with the balloons via a taxi and the other gets you sent to the hospital with your little girl witnessing some horrible behavior including having the little girl walk over to the station staff (I believe terminal manager) and hand him her balloons as if to be an adult then only to see her dad throw a kick at the guys chest. It doesn't take Bhudda to behave in sociably & legally acceptable ways. The overwhelming majority of people on the planet do it every day including those who have crimes committed against them.

Do you think it is worth saving the video to show your 7 year old children or grandchildren as a teaching tool to show how they should act if they ever get hit or somebody tries to tell them they can't take their balloons on a plane or other public transportation?

yeah... that's precisely what i think....

what i think is that when you get a severe blow to your head, you're not thinking clearly about the pro's on con's of your following actions.

stating that you've been in fights when you were younger should show that you understand things tend to become a blur.

It doesn't take Bhudda to behave in sociably & legally acceptable ways

no, i never said it does.. what i was getting at is that it would take someone of an extreme calmness, not to act out after a blow like that to the head.

Well if you think there is a possibility he received some temporary sort of brain injury that made him not understand right or wrong (until he got hit in the head again on the platform) and put him in a violent rage but allowed him all his motor skills then it would be excusable but the chance of this being the case is as close to zero as you can come. On the other hand, the guy flying into a rage and seeing red because he was hit is back to being inexcusable in my book. But I think we are very different too because I really don't think I would get into a rage if I was hit with a weapon with my child in tow, when it stopped, I would remove myself and my daughter from the situation where I might encounter more possible deadly force. Anger might come later but as a parent my first instinct would be protecting my child, I just wouldn't lose this instinct as a parent. Even when my kids were not present, I avoided such conflict because I wanted them to have a father around who was capable of raising them.

I could be wrong but I think you have understandable empathy for this guy but I just can't believe you actually condone his behavior that we see on the tape. I think you want to try to help us understand it but that is different than excusing it. There were just too many opportunities where he could have walked away in that 3 or so minutes ... I would have to go back and look at the tape but I think his daughter's safety was the last thing he had in mind. I don't recall him even looking at her or concerned where she was. I think the women at a couple points tried to get the daughter away from the father as his friend restrained him as he continued trying to go after staff. The guy lost it, and I am sure there are times most of us have lost it, but it doesn't make it excusable.

[Nisa]

A witness account from the Burmese lady who was seen in the mobile phone footage helping the daughter, has been appended to the original article.

Starts at "Breaking News - March 26 2012..."

http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=529

If her account is accurate it is going to make one disturbing video. Sickened my stomach to read that. I cannot stop thinking about that little girl being forced to be part of all this. But kind of a shame we don't get to hear her own words (not paraphrased) to what happened in the actual beginning .. for some reason these are not quotes. Also a bit odd that what the video shows isn't really described at all, it goes right from 3 or 4 guards abusing him to his friend taking him up the stairs ... also no mention of his going through the ticketing turn style. Can't help but wonder if some of her statements are missing or if the abuse of the guy was so extreme it left her only seeing one side.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Nisa

[nurofiend]

Well if you think there is a possibility he received some temporary sort of brain injury that made him not understand right or wrong (until he got hit in the head again on the platform) and put him in a violent rage but allowed him all his motor skills then it would be excusable but the chance of this being the case is as close to zero as you can come. On the other hand, the guy flying into a rage and seeing red because he was hit is back to being inexcusable in my book. But I think we are very different too because I really don't think I would get into a rage if I was hit with a weapon with my child in tow, when it stopped, I would remove myself and my daughter from the situation where I might encounter more possible deadly force. Anger might come later but as a parent my first instinct would be protecting my child, I just wouldn't lose this instinct as a parent. Even when my kids were not present, I avoided such conflict because I wanted them to have a father around who was capable of raising them.

I could be wrong but I think you have understandable empathy for this guy but I just can't believe you actually condone his behavior that we see on the tape. I think you want to try to help us understand it but that is different than excusing it. There were just too many opportunities where he could have walked away in that 3 or so minutes ... I would have to go back and look at the tape but I think his daughter's safety was the last thing he had in mind. I don't recall him even looking at her or concerned where she was. I think the women at a couple points tried to get the daughter away from the father as his friend restrained him as he continued trying to go after staff. The guy lost it, and I am sure there are times most of us have lost it, but it doesn't make it excusable.

Well if you think there is a possibility he received some temporary sort of brain injury that made him not understand right or wrong

you know full well that's not what i'm suggesting.

you said there was no excuse for losing it and i think getting such a blow to the head that you are cut open in that circumstance is a pretty good excuse for losing it and seeing red.

but i applaud your clear confidence of knowing that you have the (to me) quite amazing ability to stay nice and calm in that situation.

Edited March 26, 2012 by nurofiend

[Nisa]

Well if you think there is a possibility he received some temporary sort of brain injury that made him not understand right or wrong (until he got hit in the head again on the platform) and put him in a violent rage but allowed him all his motor skills then it would be excusable but the chance of this being the case is as close to zero as you can come. On the other hand, the guy flying into a rage and seeing red because he was hit is back to being inexcusable in my book. But I think we are very different too because I really don't think I would get into a rage if I was hit with a weapon with my child in tow, when it stopped, I would remove myself and my daughter from the situation where I might encounter more possible deadly force. Anger might come later but as a parent my first instinct would be protecting my child, I just wouldn't lose this instinct as a parent. Even when my kids were not present, I avoided such conflict because I wanted them to have a father around who was capable of raising them.

I could be wrong but I think you have understandable empathy for this guy but I just can't believe you actually condone his behavior that we see on the tape. I think you want to try to help us understand it but that is different than excusing it. There were just too many opportunities where he could have walked away in that 3 or so minutes ... I would have to go back and look at the tape but I think his daughter's safety was the last thing he had in mind. I don't recall him even looking at her or concerned where she was. I think the women at a couple points tried to get the daughter away from the father as his friend restrained him as he continued trying to go after staff. The guy lost it, and I am sure there are times most of us have lost it, but it doesn't make it excusable.

Well if you think there is a possibility he received some temporary sort of brain injury that made him not understand right or wrong

you know full well that's not what i'm suggesting.

you said there was no excuse for losing it and i think getting such a blow to the head that you are cut open in that circumstance is a pretty good excuse for losing it and seeing red.

but i applaud your clear confidence of knowing that you have the (to me) quite amazing ability to stay nice and calm in that situation.

I guess the point really isn't what I would do or should do but what he did. He says he acted wrong and I agree with him. Again, this doesn't take away from any wrong doing that happened to him.

[TAWP]

From the vid I looked at, where you see the incident from the beginning, the guard did nothing wrong:

http://multimedia.as...0322-14044.html

The irish guy was really aggressive and acted violently first.. He probably thought he could act like an immature spoilt brat and a thug because he is a foreigner and get away with it..

The sad thing is the security guard has now lost his job.

If this idiot get 'a visit from someone' at his door as a result then it will be a perfect opportunity for him to show whether he is a real man or a little spoilt brat...

That slide-show is from the same incident captured and shown in the thread here and others already - which means you have not seen the incident from the beginning.

[TAWP]

From what I see in the beginning of the video the teacher was denied entrance to the BTS station , but then he forces himself inside with the balloons and the security guards around him warns him he can not do that.

And his friend also try to calm him down but the irishman will not listen to him or the guards.

Thanks to him a guard lost his job , just because of some silly balloons. No sympathy from me.

That isn't the beginning of the incident.

[nurofiend]

Well if you think there is a possibility he received some temporary sort of brain injury that made him not understand right or wrong (until he got hit in the head again on the platform) and put him in a violent rage but allowed him all his motor skills then it would be excusable but the chance of this being the case is as close to zero as you can come. On the other hand, the guy flying into a rage and seeing red because he was hit is back to being inexcusable in my book. But I think we are very different too because I really don't think I would get into a rage if I was hit with a weapon with my child in tow, when it stopped, I would remove myself and my daughter from the situation where I might encounter more possible deadly force. Anger might come later but as a parent my first instinct would be protecting my child, I just wouldn't lose this instinct as a parent. Even when my kids were not present, I avoided such conflict because I wanted them to have a father around who was capable of raising them.

I could be wrong but I think you have understandable empathy for this guy but I just can't believe you actually condone his behavior that we see on the tape. I think you want to try to help us understand it but that is different than excusing it. There were just too many opportunities where he could have walked away in that 3 or so minutes ... I would have to go back and look at the tape but I think his daughter's safety was the last thing he had in mind. I don't recall him even looking at her or concerned where she was. I think the women at a couple points tried to get the daughter away from the father as his friend restrained him as he continued trying to go after staff. The guy lost it, and I am sure there are times most of us have lost it, but it doesn't make it excusable.

Well if you think there is a possibility he received some temporary sort of brain injury that made him not understand right or wrong

you know full well that's not what i'm suggesting.

you said there was no excuse for losing it and i think getting such a blow to the head that you are cut open in that circumstance is a pretty good excuse for losing it and seeing red.

but i applaud your clear confidence of knowing that you have the (to me) quite amazing ability to stay nice and calm in that situation.

I guess the point really isn't what I would do or should do but what he did. He says he acted wrong and I agree with him. Again, this doesn't take away from any wrong doing that happened to him.

he did react wrong, i'm not saying he didn't react wrong... i just think if you are reasonable you could excuse his ill-tempered reaction and understand it due to the mitigating circumstances... if it is proven that the assault on him was way overboard in the context of the altercation.

if i hear about someone arguing and having an altercation on the street and they get assaulted with a weapon in the exact same way, i would excuse them if they see red... wouldn't you?

and if you would, then this must boil to down to you thinking that the security had the right to bust his face? otherwise he would also have an excuse to see red.

it's very easy to say from the outside looking in, oh he shouldn't have acted like that... he should have just walked away after he got his eye busted open.

Edited March 26, 2012 by nurofiend

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Drummond website reports cited above are pretty one-sided in their writing and accounts, hardly anything remotely resembling an objective or neutral reporting of the case. So I'd give them about as much credence as the paper they're NOT printed on.

You'd almost think from reading those accounts that the BTS staff simply decided to wallop the teacher for no reason and with no provocation....which I seriously doubt anyone really could believe to be the case.

Convenient too that one of the supposed witnesses recounted in Drummond's report now seems to have left the country.

Maybe the teacher won't need to worry about hiring a PR agent now... He seems to have found one already.

[F4UCorsair]

flyingsporran, on Today, 02:00 , said:

But give the old boy some credit on his 'very one sided blog.' The only independent witnesses to this incident to have gone public have gone to Andrew Drummond, not Thaivisa, not pantip plaza , not sanook, not the Bangkok Post or Nation, That way perhaps their words will not be twisted. They wont be put through the wringer or have their integrity questioned by armchair critics and internet warriors. And the right people read the site. The witnesses of course are Gee Gee a Thai and Pho Cho Phyu the Burmese woman featured heavily in the video....and what more they both think excessive violence was used.

I quote John McEnroe, YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!!

That way perhaps their words will not be twisted. They wont be put through the wringer or have their integrity questioned by armchair critics and internet warriors.

You're right, their words won't be twisted or have their integrity questioned. You will take the sensationalist line, believe them implicitly, ask no searching questions, and print, in emotive terms, what they say as fact.

[canuckamuck]

Well that witness account really messes with the order of events the way they were coming together in my mind. I think that there was a lot more activity that set this off than I had realized. John protested too much for sure.

One thing that comes clear here is that the security guards either have no training, or they never paid attention to the training they got. It seems to me they have no skills in restraining someone and they are way too inclined to start throwing blows. And who are the two boys that run out and Punch John at the beginning? One of them cutting John'd eye because he punched him with a bracelet, and then running back to the counter. Opportunistic and cowardly thuggery at its best.

Keep yourselves safe out there people, if you get mad all hell can come down on you; and it might be from those who are there to protect you.

Edited March 27, 2012 by canuckamuck

[flyingsporran]

The Drummond website reports cited above are pretty one-sided in their writing and accounts, hardly anything remotely resembling an objective or neutral reporting of the case. So I'd give them about as much credence as the paper they're NOT printed on.

You'd almost think from reading those accounts that the BTS staff simply decided to wallop the teacher for no reason and with no provocation....which I seriously doubt anyone really could believe to be the case.

Convenient too that one of the supposed witnesses recounted in Drummond's report now seems to have left the country.

Maybe the teacher won't need to worry about hiring a PR agent now... He seems to have found one already.

I would have thought it was quite obvious why she made the statement one day before leaving the country. (I am in contact and she will be back. Myanmar is only 40 minutes away). That way she wont need to stick around for the insults of the little gaulieters here. There is very little editing on her statement and nothing has been removed which could be seen as detrimental to Mr. Behan.

The fact is that neither of these two witnesses have seen what Behan did as serious enough to put him on 'the wrong side' here or draw serious criticism from them when looking at the attacks themselves. And in any case Behan has admitted himself that he took the wrong course - and any physical action he took himself was after he had been attacked once, twice, three or four times. Little reference has been made to the video because quite obviously in the great scheme of things this was nothing compared to what had been done and would later be done to Mr.Behan.

The witnesses can see the big picture and must be wondering why scores of people are looking at the video trying to determine whether a kick of Behan made contact or not etc instead of looking at the context in which it was presented.

Having been presented with the only witnesses to come forward who were at the scene, crabbity readers here resort to their last final fallback and say the statements must have been doctored or the witnesses were mistaken or disturbed. Well lets wait and see if any of the witnesses go public elsewhere to support the view of some really nasty posters here and complain they have been misrepresented.

You have also falsely reported what has been said on my site. The last witness clearly states that Behan raised his voice and used the 'F' word together with balloons. That was the initial provocation

Edited March 27, 2012 by flyingsporran

[flyingsporran]

A witness account from the Burmese lady who was seen in the mobile phone footage helping the daughter, has been appended to the original article.

Starts at "Breaking News - March 26 2012..."

http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=529

If her account is accurate it is going to make one disturbing video. Sickened my stomach to read that. I cannot stop thinking about that little girl being forced to be part of all this. But kind of a shame we don't get to hear her own words (not paraphrased) to what happened in the actual beginning .. for some reason these are not quotes. Also a bit odd that what the video shows isn't really described at all, it goes right from 3 or 4 guards abusing him to his friend taking him up the stairs ... also no mention of his going through the ticketing turn style. Can't help but wonder if some of her statements are missing or if the abuse of the guy was so extreme it left her only seeing one side.

Your last sentence may be closer to the truth. None of her statement is missing although a very small bit has been paraphrased. And it seems that while many of those who witnessed the incident, she says, were of the same opinion and shouted at the guards to stop, most of those on internet web sites, take an opposing view. That's why one has to take comments on forums with large doses of salt.

[flyingsporran]

It seems the idea to "reveal the brutality of BTS security personnel" by putting this video online thoroughly backfired. Now those who think that "farangs" in Thailand cannot behave decently have a nice little movie to prove it. And it is highly unlikely the public will see any security cam footage that might put the whole affair into another perspective.

Mr. Behan will have to go a long way to settle this affair. Wherever he may be teaching in the future, he can be sure at least one student has his one-man-show on his smartphone - "Teacher fighting for the "Right to Bear Balloons"...

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Sadly, I don't think even posting the full videos of every person in the station with a camera phone and all the BTS cameras are going to change that many people's minds about anything despite what is on the tapes or what is not.

Me personally, I can't imagine anything that could be on the tapes that can excuse this guys behavior in this 1 video but there likely may be something on the tapes that would make me feel just or possible more disgusted with other(s) behavior.

I feel a bit bad for just about anybody though (even if I am also appalled) by video that goes viral showing, what I'd like to believe, are likely somebody's worst few minutes in life.

Me personally, I can't imagine anything that could be on the tapes that can excuse this guys behavior in this 1 video

well try and stretch that imagination then,

can you not imagine that the guy got clobbered, splitting his brow, in front of hist child for trying to keep his child's balloons.

none of us know what happened first, yet, but you said you can't even imagine anything that could excuse his behaviour!

would that not excuse anger and lashing out?

i say unless he struck any security personal first, he has every right to be that angry, and more, in the vid that we've seen.

until we see what happened first, people judging him based on half evidence, should put a sock in it.

if he kicked a bin as some rumour it, then they should have called the police.

unless a staff member was assaulted by him first, and by that i mean punched or kicked.. then he had every right to go crazy for getting his face busted open... considering his little girl was watching it all.

i'll reserve my judgement on this man until we see all the evidence

and may god help anyone that faces a court where posters from this thread get called for jury duty... (yes, i don't mean in thailand)

Behan, say witnesses, did NOT make the first assault.

[whybother]

The Drummond website reports cited above are pretty one-sided in their writing and accounts, hardly anything remotely resembling an objective or neutral reporting of the case. So I'd give them about as much credence as the paper they're NOT printed on.

You'd almost think from reading those accounts that the BTS staff simply decided to wallop the teacher for no reason and with no provocation....which I seriously doubt anyone really could believe to be the case.

Convenient too that one of the supposed witnesses recounted in Drummond's report now seems to have left the country.

Maybe the teacher won't need to worry about hiring a PR agent now... He seems to have found one already.

I would have thought it was quite obvious why she made the statement one day before leaving the country. (I am in contact and she will be back. Myanmar is only 40 minutes away). That way she wont need to stick around for the insults of the little gaulieters here. There is very little editing on her statement and nothing has been removed which could be seen as detrimental to Mr. Behan.

The fact is that neither of these two witnesses have seen what Behan did as serious enough to put him on 'the wrong side' here or draw serious criticism from them when looking at the attacks themselves. And in any case Behan has admitted himself that he took the wrong course - and any physical action he took himself was after he had been attacked once, twice, three or four times. Little reference has been made to the video because quite obviously in the great scheme of things this was nothing compared to what had been done and would later be done to Mr.Behan.

The witnesses can see the big picture and must be wondering why scores of people are looking at the video trying to determine whether a kick of Behan made contact or not etc instead of looking at the context in which it was presented.

Having been presented with the only witnesses to come forward who were at the scene, crabbity readers here resort to their last final fallback and say the statements must have been doctored or the witnesses were mistaken or disturbed. Well lets wait and see if any of the witnesses go public elsewhere to support the view of some really nasty posters here and complain they have been misrepresented.

You have also falsely reported what has been said on my site. The last witness clearly states that Behan raised his voice and used the 'F' word together with balloons. That was the initial provocation

Was Behan attacked four times outside the turnstyles before the video started?

[geriatrickid]

Behan, say witnesses, did NOT make the first assault.

Witness accounts are often inaccurate. For example, in the case of the Brazilian shot in the London subway, witnesses were adaman that the brazilian had jumped the turnstile and was being pursued. the Brazilian had in fact used his transit card and it was a security officer that jumped the turnstile. Witnesses also reported the man was wearing a bulky coat when in fact he was not.

Witness statements must be verified. There is a strong likelihood that many witnesses did not see the entire incident, nor hear the full discussion between the guard(s) and Behan. Also, statements made several days after the event may now be tainted because of the influence of the ongoing discussions.

Please note, that I am not criticizing your reports, only pointing out that witness statements supporting or against Mr. Behan must be vetted.

Edited March 27, 2012 by geriatrickid

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I made no comment on the veracity of the supposed witnesses recited on the Drummond website. Though I do wonder if the Myanmar witness in the latest report deigned to share her statement with the Thai police.

I did, however, make a lot of comment on the one-sided, clearly partisan reporting and recounting of events by the website's author.

Any meaningful comment from the BTS there or even attempt to contact them? Nope. Any comment or even mention of any attempt to contact the security guards or the company that employs them? Nope. Any comment from the police? Nope.

But LOTS of comment from the teacher whose actions instigated the entire mess. Great public relations for him. Lousy journalism for the readers and public, though.

I feel so reassured learning from Andrew that the teacher who threw the expletive and trash can kicking tantrum at the BTS station over balloons is, in fact, "a personable young man" and that he "loves Thai people and Thailand."

Will he also be nominated by Andrew as Thailand's ex-pat of the year in the next and upcoming installment?

Edited March 27, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Ulysses G.]

Guards, not even un/semi-trained Group 4 Thai security guards, don't launch into unprovoked attacks on people in a public place. It is just not reality.

I have to agree with this. It seems to me that the guards certainly over-reacted, but John Behan does bear much of the responsibility for what happened. We would have to see the CCTV footage oursleves to be certain.

[luckyluke]

Assume it was a police officer and not a security guard who told Mr.Behan not to take balloons on the BTS, will he have reacted the same way?

Of course we will never know.

We have all be confronted with those security guards with fancy uniforms full of ornaments, and mostly we not pay very much attention to what they tell us because we know they have no any kind of authority, on the other side when a policeman with a fancy uniform full of ornaments tell us to do something we mostly hurry to do so, at least most of us I assume.

[richard_smith237]

I have steered clear of commenting on this topic (and the other two on the same subject) as there appears to be a lack of information and an overload of opinion, much of it unfair.

This thread is about his family being threatened. The rights or wrong of the incident at the BTS station by no means condone a cold threat after the event. The people who made this threat are animals and need to be dealt with swiftly by the law. I hope they are found and this aspect of this controversial issue is dealt with.

Main Topic: The full tape would put an end to much of the debate. I am unsure why this has not been release but have to assume it is with the police and being used for evidence when charges are made.

Based on discussions, I suspect that the Westerner over reacted verbally. The security guard with ideas above his station reacted violently and was backed up by his colleagues. A dirty situation which could most likely have been avoided with communication and started as a result of an indignant and perhaps disrespectful attitude on the part of the Westerner and exacerbated with a lack of training on the part of the Security guards. He was with his daughter, he should have known better, but who would not be able to respond with aggression in kind?

I suspect with many of us the news might be different. I suspect the situation might never have escalated beyond "You Balloon, cannot" ... "Oh, Bugger, OK, mai-pen-rai"... However, had it had escalated to being attacked by a couple of security guards I gather some forum members are 'useful' and young and fit enough to be effective when defending themselves....

Edited March 27, 2012 by richard_smith237

[flyingsporran]

I made no comment on the veracity of the supposed witnesses recited on the Drummond website. Though I do wonder if the Myanmar witness in the latest report deigned to share her statement with the Thai police.

I did, however, make a lot of comment on the one-sided, clearly partisan reporting and recounting of events by the website's author.

Any meaningful comment from the BTS there or even attempt to contact them? Nope. Any comment or even mention of any attempt to contact the security guards or the company that employs them? Nope. Any comment from the police? Nope.

But LOTS of comment from the teacher whose actions instigated the entire mess. Great public relations for him. Lousy journalism for the readers and public, though.

I feel so reassured learning from Andrew that the teacher who threw the expletive and trash can kicking tantrum at the BTS station over balloons is, in fact, "a personable young man" and that he "loves Thai people and Thailand."

Will he also be nominated by Andrew as Thailand's ex-pat of the year in the next and upcoming installment?

The last piece on my site states quite clearly 'Comment' Tall guy. I repeat. You know have two independent people who have come forward who clearly say the attack was excessive and that the guards initiated the violence. The BTS have made several comments, some contradictory. Following police action they are not commenting at all.

How long have you been here? Do you really think police are going to pursue this case?

If the comments of the witnesses make your statements look rather stupid, you have only yourself to blame. Send me your cv, name nationality etc. and I will put you in for next year's Flying Sporran 'Globes'

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's certainly the case that the teacher's self-serving account of events, at least as recounted by Drummond, fits very well with a recurring theme of Drummond's news reporting here -- innocent farangs who are victimized by Thais for absolutely no reason and after having done nothing wrong -- at least if you are to believe his telling of the stories.

Of course, indeed there are innocent farangs who are wronged by Thais, just as there is the reverse as well... But Drummond's reporting always seems to paint things as entirely black and white...good and evil... never shades of gray and degrees of fault or blame. Unfortunately, the real world usually isn't black and white and all good vs all evil...

But then Drummond's reporting isn't reflecting the real world, is it...

[stander]

What is a real shame is that they way that Drummond has handled this sorry saga has taken the shine of his excellent work in exposing The Grey Man.

I just hope he can now see sense and extract himself from this and get back on track with less subjective and emotive reporting.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The last piece on my site states quite clearly 'Comment' Tall guy. I repeat.

Ahh, I see... Under the screaming news headline about pack attack, you have the little one word of "comment."

So that's meant to tell the readers they should disregard all that follows as a legitimate news report and instead treat it as a long Andrew Drummond commentary...thus released from any obligation to be fair, balanced, impartial or objective.

How convenient and helpful for the teacher!!!

[p_brownstone]

1) Personally I believe it more than likely that these 2 "eyewitnesses" approached your site rather than Forums like this because they were confident their stories would receive uncritical, wide eyed acceptance and belief.

2) You claim to be an investigative reporter, however to date you have done no investigation at all, simply printed whatever stories people have approached you with. Here's a free idea for you - trace and publish a full interview with the Farang prominently seen on the Video attempting to restrain Behan. He was obviously present throughout the incident - from start to finish. Surely any unbiased "investigative reporter" would have realised that was an essential component in getting the full story? Additionally, as I already pointed out, it is somewhat telling that he has not come forward to voluntarily give his account - and defend his friend if he was not in fact the initiator of this confrontation; again surely something any diligent reporter should have seized upon and investigated?

Patrick

Patrick

[flyingsporran]

Considering what Behan had been put through here and elsewhere I can totally understand why his friend has not come forward nor would I ask him to. He was also attacked according to the Burmese witness and he had done nothing wrong at all.

[thaihome]

In no way do I condone the violence perpetuated against Mr. Behan by the G4S guards. It seems to be way over the top and they should be punished for it.

It is actually a training issue, as security guards in Thailand are not trained on how to properly react to a defiance of authority that is so common in the West but is pretty much non-existent here. The entire incident was so out of their experience, the guards and BTS staff was absolutely mystified at what to do. Watch the faces of the staff on video that has been released. They cannot believe what is happening and have no idea what to do.

But for me, the main issue of the whole incident is why Mr. Behan, when told he cannot take the balloons on the train, did not either discard the balloons or turn around and walk away.

Would Mr. Behan have acted out in a similar fashion at an airport security check point? Highly doubtful and the reasons why are the crux of the race issue that is being raised by some. Mr. Behan, when confronted with a lower class Thai male, decided he did not have to follow his instructions. That is the real race issue, not a Thai male using this as an excuse to beat on a Farang.

The entire incident lies at feet of Mr. Behan; he was the first person of all those involved who made the decision to escalate the episode to what was the final outcome. It always comes down to why did he not just walk away.

TH

[animatic]

A witness account from the Burmese lady who was seen in the mobile phone footage helping the daughter, has been appended to the original article.

Starts at "Breaking News - March 26 2012..."

http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=529

If her account is accurate it is going to make one disturbing video. Sickened my stomach to read that. I cannot stop thinking about that little girl being forced to be part of all this. But kind of a shame we don't get to hear her own words (not paraphrased) to what happened in the actual beginning .. for some reason these are not quotes. Also a bit odd that what the video shows isn't really described at all, it goes right from 3 or 4 guards abusing him to his friend taking him up the stairs ... also no mention of his going through the ticketing turn style. Can't help but wonder if some of her statements are missing or if the abuse of the guy was so extreme it left her only seeing one side.

As I know one of Behan's old friends, this matches the report I got.

He has been here many years and knows how it works,

his mistake is minor compared to the guards actions.

Way, way, way over the top violent reaction from the guards.

In particular the gang beating on the upper platform.

Organized not accidental, and that might explain the death threats.

This is bad enough for the security company to lose the BTS contract,

and certainly ' security company face' is on the dumpster totally.

Security services staff are supposed to maintain order,

not create massive disorder because they feel slighted or want revenge for one of their own.

Despicable conduct.

Edited March 27, 2012 by animatic