Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[chrisinth]

I made no comment on the veracity of the supposed witnesses recited on the Drummond website. Though I do wonder if the Myanmar witness in the latest report deigned to share her statement with the Thai police.

I did, however, make a lot of comment on the one-sided, clearly partisan reporting and recounting of events by the website's author.

Any meaningful comment from the BTS there or even attempt to contact them? Nope. Any comment or even mention of any attempt to contact the security guards or the company that employs them? Nope. Any comment from the police? Nope.

But LOTS of comment from the teacher whose actions instigated the entire mess. Great public relations for him. Lousy journalism for the readers and public, though.

I feel so reassured learning from Andrew that the teacher who threw the expletive and trash can kicking tantrum at the BTS station over balloons is, in fact, "a personable young man" and that he "loves Thai people and Thailand."

Will he also be nominated by Andrew as Thailand's ex-pat of the year in the next and upcoming installment?

The last piece on my site states quite clearly 'Comment' Tall guy. I repeat. You know have two independent people who have come forward who clearly say the attack was excessive and that the guards initiated the violence. The BTS have made several comments, some contradictory. Following police action they are not commenting at all.

How long have you been here? Do you really think police are going to pursue this case?

If the comments of the witnesses make your statements look rather stupid, you have only yourself to blame. Send me your cv, name nationality etc. and I will put you in for next year's Flying Sporran 'Globes'

"According to Anat, Behan argued heatedly with the security guards, pushing one in the chest and kicking the chief of the station. In self-defence, a security guard hit the passenger with a scanner."

The above is an extract from the topic released on the 23rd March. Irregardless of when this was stated, the facts should not change. Seems to conflict with what is now being said.................

[Nisa]

I made no comment on the veracity of the supposed witnesses recited on the Drummond website. Though I do wonder if the Myanmar witness in the latest report deigned to share her statement with the Thai police.

I did, however, make a lot of comment on the one-sided, clearly partisan reporting and recounting of events by the website's author.

Any meaningful comment from the BTS there or even attempt to contact them? Nope. Any comment or even mention of any attempt to contact the security guards or the company that employs them? Nope. Any comment from the police? Nope.

But LOTS of comment from the teacher whose actions instigated the entire mess. Great public relations for him. Lousy journalism for the readers and public, though.

I feel so reassured learning from Andrew that the teacher who threw the expletive and trash can kicking tantrum at the BTS station over balloons is, in fact, "a personable young man" and that he "loves Thai people and Thailand."

Will he also be nominated by Andrew as Thailand's ex-pat of the year in the next and upcoming installment?

The last piece on my site states quite clearly 'Comment' Tall guy. I repeat. You know have two independent people who have come forward who clearly say the attack was excessive and that the guards initiated the violence. The BTS have made several comments, some contradictory. Following police action they are not commenting at all.

How long have you been here? Do you really think police are going to pursue this case?

If the comments of the witnesses make your statements look rather stupid, you have only yourself to blame. Send me your cv, name nationality etc. and I will put you in for next year's Flying Sporran 'Globes'

"According to Anat, Behan argued heatedly with the security guards, pushing one in the chest and kicking the chief of the station. In self-defence, a security guard hit the passenger with a scanner."

The above is an extract from the topic released on the 23rd March. Irregardless of when this was stated, the facts should not change. Seems to conflict with what is now being said.................

That was kind of my only point I was making earlier and that is simply to consider the source. With that along with yours and others observations, hopefully people will take fair warning.

[Lite Beer]

A number of posts have been deleted for the reasons of Defamation, being off topic and petty bickering.

Replies to them have also been removed.

[Curt1591]

I made no comment on the veracity of the supposed witnesses recited on the Drummond website. Though I do wonder if the Myanmar witness in the latest report deigned to share her statement with the Thai police.

I did, however, make a lot of comment on the one-sided, clearly partisan reporting and recounting of events by the website's author.

Any meaningful comment from the BTS there or even attempt to contact them? Nope. Any comment or even mention of any attempt to contact the security guards or the company that employs them? Nope. Any comment from the police? Nope.

But LOTS of comment from the teacher whose actions instigated the entire mess. Great public relations for him. Lousy journalism for the readers and public, though.

I feel so reassured learning from Andrew that the teacher who threw the expletive and trash can kicking tantrum at the BTS station over balloons is, in fact, "a personable young man" and that he "loves Thai people and Thailand."

Will he also be nominated by Andrew as Thailand's ex-pat of the year in the next and upcoming installment?

The last piece on my site states quite clearly 'Comment' Tall guy. I repeat. You know have two independent people who have come forward who clearly say the attack was excessive and that the guards initiated the violence. The BTS have made several comments, some contradictory. Following police action they are not commenting at all.

How long have you been here? Do you really think police are going to pursue this case?

If the comments of the witnesses make your statements look rather stupid, you have only yourself to blame. Send me your cv, name nationality etc. and I will put you in for next year's Flying Sporran 'Globes'

"According to Anat, Behan argued heatedly with the security guards, pushing one in the chest and kicking the chief of the station. In self-defence, a security guard hit the passenger with a scanner."

The above is an extract from the topic released on the 23rd March. Irregardless of when this was stated, the facts should not change. Seems to conflict with what is now being said.................

Why don't they release the CCTV ?

[Thaddeus]

I made no comment on the veracity of the supposed witnesses recited on the Drummond website. Though I do wonder if the Myanmar witness in the latest report deigned to share her statement with the Thai police.

I did, however, make a lot of comment on the one-sided, clearly partisan reporting and recounting of events by the website's author.

Any meaningful comment from the BTS there or even attempt to contact them? Nope. Any comment or even mention of any attempt to contact the security guards or the company that employs them? Nope. Any comment from the police? Nope.

But LOTS of comment from the teacher whose actions instigated the entire mess. Great public relations for him. Lousy journalism for the readers and public, though.

I feel so reassured learning from Andrew that the teacher who threw the expletive and trash can kicking tantrum at the BTS station over balloons is, in fact, "a personable young man" and that he "loves Thai people and Thailand."

Will he also be nominated by Andrew as Thailand's ex-pat of the year in the next and upcoming installment?

The last piece on my site states quite clearly 'Comment' Tall guy. I repeat. You know have two independent people who have come forward who clearly say the attack was excessive and that the guards initiated the violence. The BTS have made several comments, some contradictory. Following police action they are not commenting at all.

How long have you been here? Do you really think police are going to pursue this case?

If the comments of the witnesses make your statements look rather stupid, you have only yourself to blame. Send me your cv, name nationality etc. and I will put you in for next year's Flying Sporran 'Globes'

"According to Anat, Behan argued heatedly with the security guards, pushing one in the chest and kicking the chief of the station. In self-defence, a security guard hit the passenger with a scanner."

The above is an extract from the topic released on the 23rd March. Irregardless of when this was stated, the facts should not change. Seems to conflict with what is now being said.................

Why don't they release the CCTV ?

Errr .... because it would shine a bad light on the Thai staff, the BTS and Thailand in general .... just a thought.

Silence in this case is not golden.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Thaddeus

[MikeOboe57]

[...]

We have all be confronted with those security guards with fancy uniforms full of ornaments, and mostly we not pay very much attention to what they tell us because we know they have no any kind of authority, [...]

If Mr. Behan displayed the same sensible attitude, then this might explain the escalation.

You are not doing anyone a favour by condoning this kind of behaviour.

[flying]

New York and he probably would have been shot...

Not to mention being put on the TSA no fly/travel ban list

He would be in taxi's & Tuk-Tuk's the rest of his days.

After being released form jail that is................

Edited March 27, 2012 by flying

[EyesWideOpen]

Perhaps it is not important to Mr. Behan, but he seems to be taking a secondary " beating" here on TV by the rose colored glasses brigade. Gotta love the logic, " if the farang was roughed up, he must have deserved it. " Anyway all this drama can be cleared up by a single act, which is for the police to release the tapes. Am getting tired of this - he said she said - nonsense. The tapes will show either:

1. An out of control farang with anger issues who deserved a beating.

2. Crazed with power moronic security guards grabbing a chance to beat up a farang.

Since the tapes are not being released, and I have been here a long time, I am going with option number 2. Since his family is now being threatened, if I was him I would start court action to force the police to release the tapes. I suspect if the shoes were reversed, and there was a pack of farangs who beat up a Thai, the tape would be released within the hour...... :-)

[balo]

I find it very strange that the witnesses right after the incident went running to Andrew Drummond.

How could they know about him?

[thaihome]

Perhaps it is not important to Mr. Behan, but he seems to be taking a secondary " beating" here on TV by the rose colored glasses brigade. Gotta love the logic, " if the farang was roughed up, he must have deserved it. " Anyway all this drama can be cleared up by a single act, which is for the police to release the tapes. Am getting tired of this - he said she said - nonsense. The tapes will show either:

1. An out of control farang with anger issues who deserved a beating.

2. Crazed with power moronic security guards grabbing a chance to beat up a farang.

Since the tapes are not being released, and I have been here a long time, I am going with option number 2. Since his family is now being threatened, if I was him I would start court action to force the police to release the tapes. I suspect if the shoes were reversed, and there was a pack of farangs who beat up a Thai, the tape would be released within the hour...... :-)

Your attempt to simplify this into a young Thai male versus a Farang race issue misses the real point and I suspect this is deliberate on your part.

The real issue is why did Mr. Behan continue to insist on taking the balloons past the checkpoint? Would he have behaved similarly at an airport security check point? I believe the real race issue is that Mr. Behan strongly felt that he did not have take instructions from the young Thai male BTS security guard. When confronted with such instructions, he reacted aggressively and it escalated from there.

Mr. Behan is the only person that could have stopped the entire incident from escalating and he chose not to. As the BTS staff were going to follow the letter of the rules and rightly not allow the balloons on the train under any circumstances, it was not up to them to stop the escalation. They were reacting to Mr. Behan’s actions.

TH

[richard_smith237]

Perhaps it is not important to Mr. Behan, but he seems to be taking a secondary " beating" here on TV by the rose colored glasses brigade. Gotta love the logic, " if the farang was roughed up, he must have deserved it. " Anyway all this drama can be cleared up by a single act, which is for the police to release the tapes. Am getting tired of this - he said she said - nonsense. The tapes will show either:

1. An out of control farang with anger issues who deserved a beating.

2. Crazed with power moronic security guards grabbing a chance to beat up a farang.

Since the tapes are not being released, and I have been here a long time, I am going with option number 2. Since his family is now being threatened, if I was him I would start court action to force the police to release the tapes. I suspect if the shoes were reversed, and there was a pack of farangs who beat up a Thai, the tape would be released within the hour...... :-)

Your attempt to simplify this into a young Thai male versus a Farang race issue misses the real point and I suspect this is deliberate on your part.

The real issue is why did Mr. Behan continue to insist on taking the balloons past the checkpoint? Would he have behaved similarly at an airport security check point? I believe the real race issue is that Mr. Behan strongly felt that he did not have take instructions from the young Thai male BTS security guard. When confronted with such instructions, he reacted aggressively and it escalated from there.

Mr. Behan is the only person that could have stopped the entire incident from escalating and he chose not to. As the BTS staff were going to follow the letter of the rules and rightly not allow the balloons on the train under any circumstances, it was not up to them to stop the escalation. They were reacting to Mr. Behan’s actions.

TH

But, I suspect at the time that Mr. Behan was not aware of the regulation that he was not allowed to take the balloons on the skytrain. Some culpability also lies with the training or lack thereoff the Group4 security staff as Mr. Behan had used the sky train on a number of occasions already that day with the Balloons and was not stopped.

Training of staff in Thailand is very poor - We can see this at the number of Banks where people are refused opening accounts, when in fact is it perfectly legal for a Tourist to hold a savings account with a debit card. I write this not to digress but to show a point where a little persistence often works in a favor. The "CANNOT" is often not a black and white area, very often if we push things and show a little resistance things will go our way, the trick here is to learn when and where we can and can't do this. For anyone who's been here any length of time we learn that the cannot often means "I don't know"..

I suspect the phrase "he reacted aggressively and it escalated from there" is a little excessive, I would choose to suggest that "he reacted assertively, questioned the decision of the guard who responded aggressively" (could that also be the case ?).

We wont know until we see the full tapes. I do agree that other situations people behave differently when considering the implications of even the smallest comments or reluctance to respond positively to the Airport Security, in some countries more so than others - however, the guidelines here are fixed and upheld with significantly more consistency than on a whim.

It is true that in many cases, give a guy a uniform and they behave with untrained with an unfailingly uncompromising attitude of an army general. I was once driving down a very narrow one way soi, I needed to 3 point turn but it wasn't wide enough and asked a guard if he could slide the gate across to an apartment so I could make my turn. He refused. So, I got out and moved the gate myself, then made my turn. He understood, he just decided to make an unhelpful decision. No big deal, but this was an a example of someone untrained in a uniform, with an ego being somewhat unhelpful. This guard could have handled things in a very different way. AND, so could have the Security Guard at the Sky train station...

Picture this: "Sorry Sir, Please wait for a moment" .... returns with a list, on it is shown a list of prohibited items including balloons. Mr. Behan indicates that he was allowed to take the balloons down from Siam station... the response "Very Sorry Sir, that shouldn't have happened, we will have to review the tapes and see which guard failed to do his job correctly, this is a violation of BTS safety protocol, would you like to make a complaint, we'll get a form for you"...... "We will assist you with getting a Taxi, but we apologize that for the safety of your child and other users we cannot permit you to take the balloons on the train"... OF course this didn't happen, instead I'm quite sure all Mr. Behan would have been told is "YOU, YOU, CANNOT"... most foreigners in Thailand are likely to respond somewhat 'assertively' to this response... i.e. "Cannot what?..... and the situation kicks off... BUT, at this stage even if frustrations are shown, violence is not warranted...

[thaihome]

Perhaps it is not important to Mr. Behan, but he seems to be taking a secondary " beating" here on TV by the rose colored glasses brigade. Gotta love the logic, " if the farang was roughed up, he must have deserved it. " Anyway all this drama can be cleared up by a single act, which is for the police to release the tapes. Am getting tired of this - he said she said - nonsense. The tapes will show either:

1. An out of control farang with anger issues who deserved a beating.

2. Crazed with power moronic security guards grabbing a chance to beat up a farang.

Since the tapes are not being released, and I have been here a long time, I am going with option number 2. Since his family is now being threatened, if I was him I would start court action to force the police to release the tapes. I suspect if the shoes were reversed, and there was a pack of farangs who beat up a Thai, the tape would be released within the hour...... :-)

Your attempt to simplify this into a young Thai male versus a Farang race issue misses the real point and I suspect this is deliberate on your part.

The real issue is why did Mr. Behan continue to insist on taking the balloons past the checkpoint? Would he have behaved similarly at an airport security check point? I believe the real race issue is that Mr. Behan strongly felt that he did not have take instructions from the young Thai male BTS security guard. When confronted with such instructions, he reacted aggressively and it escalated from there.

Mr. Behan is the only person that could have stopped the entire incident from escalating and he chose not to. As the BTS staff were going to follow the letter of the rules and rightly not allow the balloons on the train under any circumstances, it was not up to them to stop the escalation. They were reacting to Mr. Behan’s actions.

TH

But, I suspect at the time that Mr. Behan was not aware of the regulation that he was not allowed to take the balloons on the skytrain. Some culpability also lies with the training or lack thereoff the Group4 security staff as Mr. Behan had used the sky train on a number of occasions already that day with the Balloons and was not stopped.

Training of staff in Thailand is very poor - We can see this at the number of Banks where people are refused opening accounts, when in fact is it perfectly legal for a Tourist to hold a savings account with a debit card. I write this not to digress but to show a point where a little persistence often works in a favor. The "CANNOT" is often not a black and white area, very often if we push things and show a little resistance things will go our way, the trick here is to learn when and where we can and can't do this. For anyone who's been here any length of time we learn that the cannot often means "I don't know"..

I suspect the phrase "he reacted aggressively and it escalated from there" is a little excessive, I would choose to suggest that "he reacted assertively, questioned the decision of the guard who responded aggressively" (could that also be the case ?).

We wont know until we see the full tapes. I do agree that other situations people behave differently when considering the implications of even the smallest comments or reluctance to respond positively to the Airport Security, in some countries more so than others - however, the guidelines here are fixed and upheld with significantly more consistency than on a whim.

It is true that in many cases, give a guy a uniform and they behave with untrained with an unfailingly uncompromising attitude of an army general. I was once driving down a very narrow one way soi, I needed to 3 point turn but it wasn't wide enough and asked a guard if he could slide the gate across to an apartment so I could make my turn. He refused. So, I got out and moved the gate myself, then made my turn. He understood, he just decided to make an unhelpful decision. No big deal, but this was an a example of someone untrained in a uniform, with an ego being somewhat unhelpful. This guard could have handled things in a very different way. AND, so could have the Security Guard at the Sky train station...

Picture this: "Sorry Sir, Please wait for a moment" .... returns with a list, on it is shown a list of prohibited items including balloons. Mr. Behan indicates that he was allowed to take the balloons down from Siam station... the response "Very Sorry Sir, that shouldn't have happened, we will have to review the tapes and see which guard failed to do his job correctly, this is a violation of BTS safety protocol, would you like to make a complaint, we'll get a form for you"...... "We will assist you with getting a Taxi, but we apologize that for the safety of your child and other users we cannot permit you to take the balloons on the train"... OF course this didn't happen, instead I'm quite sure all Mr. Behan would have been told is "YOU, YOU, CANNOT"... most foreigners in Thailand are likely to respond somewhat 'assertively' to this response... i.e. "Cannot what?..... and the situation kicks off... BUT, at this stage even if frustrations are shown, violence is not warranted...

Your bank analogy is very good. It sounds like what you are saying that when a farang, is refused to be allowed to open a bank account, he is fully justified to get into a shoving match with the teller because the teller is not trained correctly. Is that right?

Though your entire alternate scenario sounds very good, it is dependent on a level of English skills that BTS staff and the security contractors are likely not to posses.

How about another alternative scenario. Mr. Behan walks toward the turnstile, a guard approaches and say “cannot, cannot” and points toward the balloons. Mr. Behan, knowing his daughter speaks Thai, asks her what is he trying to say?

She engages the guard in conversation and relays to Mr. Behan that they cannot take the balloons on the train. He replies, “but we just did that a few stations up the line”. The daughter replies,” he says that makes no difference, we cannot take them inside”.

Mr. Behan, then says, Ok, darling, don’t worry about it, the man is just trying to his job. Let’s go downstairs and grab a taxi to go home.

Now I understand the first part, right up to after the daughter talking to guard actually happened, it is only after that the situation deteriorated.

Basic, simple question. Who is at fault? Who was not acting in rational, civilized, sane manner and is now trying to portray himself as a victim?

TH

[midasthailand]

Perhaps it is not important to Mr. Behan, but he seems to be taking a secondary " beating" here on TV by the rose colored glasses brigade. Gotta love the logic, " if the farang was roughed up, he must have deserved it. " Anyway all this drama can be cleared up by a single act, which is for the police to release the tapes. Am getting tired of this - he said she said - nonsense. The tapes will show either:

1. An out of control farang with anger issues who deserved a beating.

2. Crazed with power moronic security guards grabbing a chance to beat up a farang.

Since the tapes are not being released, and I have been here a long time, I am going with option number 2. Since his family is now being threatened, if I was him I would start court action to force the police to release the tapes. I suspect if the shoes were reversed, and there was a pack of farangs who beat up a Thai, the tape would be released within the hour...... :-)

No grey areas for you are there? I would opt for a balance between the two extremes you have articulated above. A little fault on both sides. For my part I cannot imagine a scenario where the security guard would assault a larger foreign male with no provocation, nor can I imagine Mr Behan, a respected IT teacher at an International school, going on a rampage for no reason.

I do agree that the release of all visual media would clear up a lot of the speculation currently rampant on TV and other on line fora.

[TheWalkingMan]

I find it very strange that the witnesses right after the incident went running to Andrew Drummond.

How could they know about him?

Here is a secret, but don't tell anyone... Lots of people use the internet.

[Ulysses G.]

How about another alternative scenario. Mr. Behan walks toward the turnstile, a guard approaches and say “cannot, cannot” and points toward the balloons. Mr. Behan, knowing his daughter speaks Thai, asks her what is he trying to say?

She engages the guard in conversation and relays to Mr. Behan that they cannot take the balloons on the train. He replies, “but we just did that a few stations up the line”. The daughter replies,” he says that makes no difference, we cannot take them inside”.

Mr. Behan, then says, Ok, darling, don’t worry about it, the man is just trying to his job. Let’s go downstairs and grab a taxi to go home.

Now I understand the first part, right up to after the daughter talking to guard actually happened, it is only after that the situation deteriorated.

Basic, simple question. Who is at fault? Who was not acting in rational, civilized, sane manner and is now trying to portray himself as a victim?

TH

After waiting for two hours to see an immigration officlal, I got charged 2,000 baht today for missing the date for my 90 day report. I felt like going on a rampage, but I didn't.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[flying]

After waiting for two hours to see an immigration officlal, I got charged 2,000 baht today for missing the date for my 90 day report. I felt like going on a rampage, but I didn't.

Yes but were you carrying balloons?

[thaihome]

After waiting for two hours to see an immigration officlal, I got charged 2,000 baht today for missing the date for my 90 day report. I felt like going on a rampage, but I didn't.

You can pay someone 1,000 baht to do the report for you. They will also call you up to remind you every 90 days and pick your passport up and deliver it back.

TH

[richard_smith237]

But, I suspect at the time that Mr. Behan was not aware of the regulation that he was not allowed to take the balloons on the skytrain. Some culpability also lies with the training or lack thereoff the Group4 security staff as Mr. Behan had used the sky train on a number of occasions already that day with the Balloons and was not stopped.

Training of staff in Thailand is very poor - We can see this at the number of Banks where people are refused opening accounts, when in fact is it perfectly legal for a Tourist to hold a savings account with a debit card. I write this not to digress but to show a point where a little persistence often works in a favor. The "CANNOT" is often not a black and white area, very often if we push things and show a little resistance things will go our way, the trick here is to learn when and where we can and can't do this. For anyone who's been here any length of time we learn that the cannot often means "I don't know"..

I suspect the phrase "he reacted aggressively and it escalated from there" is a little excessive, I would choose to suggest that "he reacted assertively, questioned the decision of the guard who responded aggressively" (could that also be the case ?).

We wont know until we see the full tapes. I do agree that other situations people behave differently when considering the implications of even the smallest comments or reluctance to respond positively to the Airport Security, in some countries more so than others - however, the guidelines here are fixed and upheld with significantly more consistency than on a whim.

It is true that in many cases, give a guy a uniform and they behave with untrained with an unfailingly uncompromising attitude of an army general. I was once driving down a very narrow one way soi, I needed to 3 point turn but it wasn't wide enough and asked a guard if he could slide the gate across to an apartment so I could make my turn. He refused. So, I got out and moved the gate myself, then made my turn. He understood, he just decided to make an unhelpful decision. No big deal, but this was an a example of someone untrained in a uniform, with an ego being somewhat unhelpful. This guard could have handled things in a very different way. AND, so could have the Security Guard at the Sky train station...

Picture this: "Sorry Sir, Please wait for a moment" .... returns with a list, on it is shown a list of prohibited items including balloons. Mr. Behan indicates that he was allowed to take the balloons down from Siam station... the response "Very Sorry Sir, that shouldn't have happened, we will have to review the tapes and see which guard failed to do his job correctly, this is a violation of BTS safety protocol, would you like to make a complaint, we'll get a form for you"...... "We will assist you with getting a Taxi, but we apologize that for the safety of your child and other users we cannot permit you to take the balloons on the train"... OF course this didn't happen, instead I'm quite sure all Mr. Behan would have been told is "YOU, YOU, CANNOT"... most foreigners in Thailand are likely to respond somewhat 'assertively' to this response... i.e. "Cannot what?..... and the situation kicks off... BUT, at this stage even if frustrations are shown, violence is not warranted...

Your bank analogy is very good. It sounds like what you are saying that when a farang, is refused to be allowed to open a bank account, he is fully justified to get into a shoving match with the teller because the teller is not trained correctly. Is that right?

No. You are deliberately misinterpreting the context of my comments: IF the bank refuses you to Open an account, I believe one would be well within their rights to question the judgement of the Bank Teller. In the very similar manner, when in thailand we are told many times 'Cannot' its often because someone simply 'doesn't know' so it would be normal for us to question why. There is no reason for violence in any of the situations even if emotions begin to run high.

Though your entire alternate scenario sounds very good, it is dependent on a level of English skills that BTS staff and the security contractors are likely not to posses.

How about another alternative scenario. Mr. Behan walks toward the turnstile, a guard approaches and say “cannot, cannot” and points toward the balloons. Mr. Behan, knowing his daughter speaks Thai, asks her what is he trying to say?

She engages the guard in conversation and relays to Mr. Behan that they cannot take the balloons on the train. He replies, “but we just did that a few stations up the line”. The daughter replies,” he says that makes no difference, we cannot take them inside”.

Mr. Behan, then says, Ok, darling, don’t worry about it, the man is just trying to his job. Let’s go downstairs and grab a taxi to go home.

A much better scenario... and with the benefit of hind sight, one which should have applied.

Now I understand the first part, right up to after the daughter talking to guard actually happened, it is only after that the situation deteriorated.

Basic, simple question. Who is at fault? Who was not acting in rational, civilized, sane manner and is now trying to portray himself as a victim?

TH

I think its clear - Both are at fault. Both failed to act in a rational, civilized sane manner. The Guard for escalating a situation to violence. The Westerner for not respecting someone who was attempting to do his job and getting verbally irate.

Both parties are to blame - I do not agree with those posters to say the Teacher was solely to blame. Yes, he could have avoided a situation, but so could the guard by handling a random member of the public in a more respectful manner.

Sometimes - the guards can be dicks. I've been on the platform, when from 2 meters away the guard blows the whistle, scares the crap out of me and points out that my toes have touched the line... In this case I want to tell him to where to go and what to do when he gets there, instead I step back and ignore him. It would be easier and more polite for the guard to say, excuses me, just wave their hand to get me to step back, I could then apologies and do so... Some of them become Nazi's in uniform... I see this quite often, I've seen it with the guards at my condo until it was dealt with. Now, I fully support people doing their jobs well, but part of doing their job well is doing it courteously, and what I see in Thailand is that once someone places on a Uniform their humanity and manners are lost and their indignant arrogance is inflated... Perhaps more issues are generated than solved by the Uniform....

Edited March 28, 2012 by richard_smith237

[katana]

...Sometimes - the guards can be dicks. I've been on the platform, when from 2 meters away the guard blows the whistle, scares the crap out of me and points out that my toes have touched the line... In this case I want to tell him to where to go and what to do when he gets there, instead I step back and ignore him. It would be easier and more polite for the guard to say, excuses me, just wave their hand to get me to step back, I could then apologies and do so... Some of them become Nazi's in uniform... I see this quite often, I've seen it with the guards at my condo until it was dealt with. Now, I fully support people doing their jobs well, but part of doing their job well is doing it courteously, and what I see in Thailand is that once someone places on a Uniform their humanity and manners are lost and their indignant arrogance is inflated... Perhaps more issues are generated than solved by the Uniform....

I've had that happen to me before too on the skytrain and felt similar.

I find it very strange that the witnesses right after the incident went running to Andrew Drummond.

How could they know about him?

The incident received a lot of coverage in the Thai news and media. If you type 'john' 'Behan' and 'skytrain' into eg Google, Andrew Drummond's site comes out top. It's also where the video was initially posted.

Edited March 28, 2012 by katana

[F1fanatic]

...Sometimes - the guards can be dicks. I've been on the platform, when from 2 meters away the guard blows the whistle, scares the crap out of me and points out that my toes have touched the line... In this case I want to tell him to where to go and what to do when he gets there, instead I step back and ignore him. It would be easier and more polite for the guard to say, excuses me, just wave their hand to get me to step back, I could then apologies and do so... Some of them become Nazi's in uniform... I see this quite often, I've seen it with the guards at my condo until it was dealt with. Now, I fully support people doing their jobs well, but part of doing their job well is doing it courteously, and what I see in Thailand is that once someone places on a Uniform their humanity and manners are lost and their indignant arrogance is inflated... Perhaps more issues are generated than solved by the Uniform....

I've had that happen to me before too on the skytrain and felt similar.

I find it very strange that the witnesses right after the incident went running to Andrew Drummond.

How could they know about him?

The incident received a lot of coverage in the Thai news and media. If you type 'john' 'Behan' and 'skytrain' into eg Google, Andrew Drummond's site comes out top. It's also where the video was initially posted.

I could well be wrong, but as far as I can make out this only turned into a newsworthy issue after the video was posted on youtube by Drummond?

[flyingsporran]

...Sometimes - the guards can be dicks. I've been on the platform, when from 2 meters away the guard blows the whistle, scares the crap out of me and points out that my toes have touched the line... In this case I want to tell him to where to go and what to do when he gets there, instead I step back and ignore him. It would be easier and more polite for the guard to say, excuses me, just wave their hand to get me to step back, I could then apologies and do so... Some of them become Nazi's in uniform... I see this quite often, I've seen it with the guards at my condo until it was dealt with. Now, I fully support people doing their jobs well, but part of doing their job well is doing it courteously, and what I see in Thailand is that once someone places on a Uniform their humanity and manners are lost and their indignant arrogance is inflated... Perhaps more issues are generated than solved by the Uniform....

I've had that happen to me before too on the skytrain and felt similar.

I find it very strange that the witnesses right after the incident went running to Andrew Drummond.

How could they know about him?

The incident received a lot of coverage in the Thai news and media. If you type 'john' 'Behan' and 'skytrain' into eg Google, Andrew Drummond's site comes out top. It's also where the video was initially posted.

That's odd. Thaivisa had had many more hits on their threads.

[F1fanatic]

...Sometimes - the guards can be dicks. I've been on the platform, when from 2 meters away the guard blows the whistle, scares the crap out of me and points out that my toes have touched the line... In this case I want to tell him to where to go and what to do when he gets there, instead I step back and ignore him. It would be easier and more polite for the guard to say, excuses me, just wave their hand to get me to step back, I could then apologies and do so... Some of them become Nazi's in uniform... I see this quite often, I've seen it with the guards at my condo until it was dealt with. Now, I fully support people doing their jobs well, but part of doing their job well is doing it courteously, and what I see in Thailand is that once someone places on a Uniform their humanity and manners are lost and their indignant arrogance is inflated... Perhaps more issues are generated than solved by the Uniform....

I've had that happen to me before too on the skytrain and felt similar.

I find it very strange that the witnesses right after the incident went running to Andrew Drummond.

How could they know about him?

The incident received a lot of coverage in the Thai news and media. If you type 'john' 'Behan' and 'skytrain' into eg Google, Andrew Drummond's site comes out top. It's also where the video was initially posted.

That's odd. Thaivisa had had many more hits on their threads.

I'm sorry Andrew, as I've said before I enjoy many of your posts on your website, but you need to accept that the 'nastiness' would never have happened if you didn't post the youtube video.

Stick to Westerners being killed (sorry, committing suicide). Far more important and worthy of news-time.

Edited March 28, 2012 by F1fanatic

[flyingsporran]

I'm sorry Andrew, as I've said before I enjoy many of your posts on your website, but you need to accept that the 'nastiness' would never have happened if you didn't post the youtube video.

Stick to Westerners being killed (sorry, committing suicide). Far more important and worthy of news-time.

As a rule I do not cover suicides. F1. Nastiness is a product of the person not the news. Hard to find a thread on TV news without it.

[thaihome]

...Both parties are to blame - I do not agree with those posters to say the Teacher was solely to blame. Yes, he could have avoided a situation, but so could the guard by handling a random member of the public in a more respectful manner.

Sometimes - the guards can be dicks. I've been on the platform, when from 2 meters away the guard blows the whistle, scares the crap out of me and points out that my toes have touched the line... In this case I want to tell him to where to go and what to do when he gets there, instead I step back and ignore him. It would be easier and more polite for the guard to say, excuses me, just wave their hand to get me to step back, I could then apologies and do so... Some of them become Nazi's in uniform... I see this quite often, I've seen it with the guards at my condo until it was dealt with. Now, I fully support people doing their jobs well, but part of doing their job well is doing it courteously, and what I see in Thailand is that once someone places on a Uniform their humanity and manners are lost and their indignant arrogance is inflated... Perhaps more issues are generated than solved by the Uniform....

I find it amazing that you place equal blame on both parties. The guard’s very likely rude enforcement of the rules is not on the same level as insisting on taking the balloons through the turnstiles and up the platform to the point of the violence the ensued.

That just appears to me to be trying to make excuses and justifying his subsequent actions.

Now, don't get me wrong, Mr. Behan did not deserve the beating he took. But he certainly brought it on himself and the fact that it was as bad as it was is only due to his decision not to discard the balloons or walk away. Something he was free to do at anytime.

If after the first blow outside the turnstile he had discarded the balloons or walked away, he would have a very good case and I would likely have a much different opinion. But the events after that were under his control and chose to keep going. That fact cannot be disputed and colors the entire situation in his disfavor.

TH

Edited March 28, 2012 by thaihome

[flyingsporran]

...Both parties are to blame - I do not agree with those posters to say the Teacher was solely to blame. Yes, he could have avoided a situation, but so could the guard by handling a random member of the public in a more respectful manner.

Sometimes - the guards can be dicks. I've been on the platform, when from 2 meters away the guard blows the whistle, scares the crap out of me and points out that my toes have touched the line... In this case I want to tell him to where to go and what to do when he gets there, instead I step back and ignore him. It would be easier and more polite for the guard to say, excuses me, just wave their hand to get me to step back, I could then apologies and do so... Some of them become Nazi's in uniform... I see this quite often, I've seen it with the guards at my condo until it was dealt with. Now, I fully support people doing their jobs well, but part of doing their job well is doing it courteously, and what I see in Thailand is that once someone places on a Uniform their humanity and manners are lost and their indignant arrogance is inflated... Perhaps more issues are generated than solved by the Uniform....

I find it amazing that you place equal blame on both parties. The guard’s very likely rude enforcement of the rules is not on the same level as insisting on taking the balloons through the turnstiles and up the platform to the point of the violence the ensued.

That just appears to me to be trying to make excuses and justifying his subsequent actions.

Now, don't get me wrong, Mr. Behan did not deserve the beating he took. But he certainly brought it on himself and the fact that it was as bad as it was is only due to his decision not to discard the balloons or walk away. Something he was free to do at anytime.

If after the first blow outside the turnstile he had discarded the balloons or walked away, he would have a very good case and I would likely have a much different opinion. But the events after that were under his control and chose to keep going. That fact cannot be disputed and colors the entire situation in his disfavor.

TH

I think u will find that during the first beating he had the balloons. Possibly the second. But the video clearly showed ballons handed over and he had his one 'allowable' balloon with which he ascended the stairs after which he was trounced by a pack of guards on the platform according to the last witness.

Edited March 28, 2012 by flyingsporran

[katana]

I could well be wrong, but as far as I can make out this only turned into a newsworthy issue after the video was posted on youtube by Drummond?

I could be wrong too, but the female Burmese witness and the witness called Dave appear to have contacted the site around 26/03/12, almost 10 days after the incident so presumably they could have found Andrew's site by Googling the story.

That's odd. Thaivisa had had many more hits on their threads.

Well, I'm sure the rankings change from day to day, but at present your site still comes out top for those search terms. Of course, there may be some other way the witnesses found their way to you.

[flyingsporran]

I could well be wrong, but as far as I can make out this only turned into a newsworthy issue after the video was posted on youtube by Drummond?

I could be wrong too, but the female Burmese witness and the witness called Dave appear to have contacted the site around 26/03/12, almost 10 days after the incident so presumably they could have found Andrew's site by Googling the story.

That's odd. Thaivisa had had many more hits on their threads.

Well, I'm sure the rankings change from day to day, but at present your site still comes out top for those search terms. Of course, there may be some other way the witnesses found their way to you.

Somebody tells me that Google also goes by other criteria than just hits.

[sparebox2]

the Thai guard have no right to threatened the life and family of the Irish.

[F4UCorsair]

I'd really like to see the 'mythical' witnesses come forward, but I guess they won't be doing that for to do so would be in fear of their lives. That is why they are, and why they will remain, mythical.

If these 'eye witnesses' were so outraged, a site can be found to vent their fury within ten minutes. This sounds more like somebody with a website has the information passed second, third, fourth hand, and then his 'investigative' reporter' skills are put to use, but key witnesses NOT interviewed, and 'comments' made.

The fact that 'comments' are made that are inflammatory and sensational, and the public don't know the significance of 'comments', makes the whole thing more than a little unsavoury in my eyes. If readers are to understand the difference between the factual report and comments, the investigative reporter should qualify it with a statement such as, "The following are my comments, and are intended to sensationalize and inflame the situation, and to confuse the reader about the actual occurrence."

In response to a post further back about the investigative reporter's skills being more the subject of this thread than the family being targeted, that is because the investigative reporter has been found wanting, with selective, inflammatory and sensational reporting, key witness/es not being interviewed, witnesses disappearing to other countries (and not one coming forward to be identified) personal comments made, etc. Do you now see why the reputation of the investigative reporter is being called into question?

Edited March 28, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[thaihome]

I think u will find that during the first beating he had the balloons. Possibly the second. But the video clearly showed ballons handed over and he had his one 'allowable' balloon with which he ascended the stairs after which he was trounced by a pack of guards on the platform according to the last witness.

You are correct, after Mr. Behan after going through the turnstile with the balloons (after being told he cannot) pushes past the guard who grabs the balloons out of his hand and they fall to floor. The daughter picks them up and hands them over at the 1:46 mark of the video. At about 1:50+ Mr. Behan then attempts the kick the guard holding the balloons. That guard is then restrained by the female guard.

It appears that the security staff is attempting to direct Mr. Behan away from the stairs and towards the BTS offices that are to the left in that station. He is refusing to do so and is insisting on going up the stairs.

I would assume that the confrontation on the platform was another attempt (apparently successful) to get Mr. Behan to go to the offices. Considering all that had happened to that point, it was not unreasonable for the BTS staff to want to have Mr. Behan go to the offices to discuss the incident.

Let me say, I am in no way condoning the actions of individual BTS security staff and it is obvious they are not trained on how to deal with people that are refusing to obey instructions. But that does not take away from the fact the Mr. Behan was refusing to follow what were lawful directives given by security staff of a public transportation organization.

What I suggest Mr. Drummond, is the next time you fly, why don’t you do the same thing Mr. Behan did and insist on taking a bottle of shampoo that is bigger then what is allowed. Argue with the staff telling you that you cannot take it, kick a trash can, push past, take a kick at one of them and attempt to go on and get on the plane. See what happens. Be sure to have somebody there to video tape it. Let me know when are going to do this, I will organize a fund to come up with your bail and lawyer fees.

If the BTS does not press charges against Mr. Behan, he should consider himself very lucky. Those charges would have nothing to do with any action Mr. Behan wishes to take against specific BTS staff for their actions in trying to enforce the rules that Mr. Behan was refusing to follow. It is obvious that Mr. Behan did not think the BTS security rules being enforced by a young Thai male (and later a female) applied to him.

TH