Thai Democrats Dump Sonthi On Doubts Over His Actions

[backtonormal]

Maybe someone should look into Sonthi's finances and see if any Thaksin derived 'Unusual Wealth' is evident?

It seems a rather abrupt and inverse about face to be pluggin for Thaksin all of a sudden.

Everyone seems to have their price in Thailand, I wonder if his has been reached?

Many on here must have crowed about Sondti couping TRT and now they hate. How is it that the general once took orders from somebody above him(not yet proved but not many above him) and now hes kissing Thaksins butt. The question we should be asking is " How powerful and influential is this man called Thaksin if he can get a coup maker to flip flop and roll over to support him" . Just think off who he has turned his back on to be Thaksins playmate. Its pretty dam frightening. Maybe the general has seen the writing on the wall and as expected the Amataya will be everyman for himself when the time comes so hes getting his feet under the table now. I wish those who supported his coup could see the writing on the wall. From where I type its pretty damm frightening. Bring it on and bring them down.

[tlansford]

looks like some eggs are being broken to make the omlette

[h90]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

??? They could form a government because they had a majority together with the coalition partners. While the democrat lead government wasn't impressive it was far less corrupt than the TRT, PPP, PTP governments before and after.

And of course it wasn't the first time and not the last the Democrats formed the government (if you learn a bit about Thailands history).

The Dems could form a government and appoint Abhisit its leader because most of their opposition had been removed either by the army or the courts, this left them with a house majority and the legal right to form a government. However, and as was made clear in the next general election, they never had a public mandate to govern.

Most governments formed under such circumstance would have immediately held a general election to confirm such a mandate, Abhisit did not and this directly led to the Red riots and deaths.

The Dems were legally correct but morally wrong, most Thais understand this.

No get your facts right.

When and how did the Army remove any of their opposition?

The court removed some because of vote buying/fraud etc. but in that areas were elections hold for replacement.

PTP+the small parties would have had a majority all the time. The small parties could have reelected Samak if they would have liked.

Such things happened in many countries, also in Thailand before. Nothing special. Also in most other countries than the Opposition calls for new elections while the new ruling party don't want.

But I agree early elections would have been morally much better. Instead they decided that they need time to fill their pockets.

That Thaksin paid for red riots is another thing, but had nothing to do with moral.....The way they handled it, made Abhisit and Suthep look like idiots. That for sure made them loose some votes.

It showed they aren't good enough.....and lost.

I don't understand why the democrats stick to Abhisit and don't find any stronger person???

[h90]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

What did Sonthi have to do with the Democrats forming government?

There were two coups, the first a military one led by Sonthi. This led to a constitution being ripped up and replaced by a new one. The new one placed overwhelming power into the hands of the Judiciary. This power coupled with a compliant EC paved the way for the dissolution of political parties at will. Commonly known as the Judicial Coup. Parties fell, one party emerged out of the dust and the rest is history. Well for them it is, luckily.

Yes indeed unfair to dissolve parties, just because they do vote buying and electional fraud. The courts shouldn't have the power to do something against that. Fraud and vote buying is the best thing we can think of. Taking it away and demanding clean elections is an evil "Judicial Coup".

[backtonormal]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

What did Sonthi have to do with the Democrats forming government?

Meeting in an army barracks ring any bells. Who was it that joined with PT that said he went with Abhisit because he had an offer he could not refuse. And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money. Selective memory loss me thinks

[jayboy]

I don't understand why the democrats stick to Abhisit and don't find any stronger person???

Any suggestions in mind?

Actually the problem with Abhisit is not that he is weak but that, despite all his qualities, he is a poor politician and as it turns a rather mean spirited one..At one time the Democrats were a truly national party.I would have thought the challenge would be to adopt well thought out policies (not just facile populism) which had wide support with leadership that appealed to a wide cross section of Thais.

As to Sonthi he is as thick as cold custard, difficult for anyone with any sense to take seriously.And yet there are those who criticise him now (including a comment by Animatic which is probably actionable) who were salivating at the time of criminal coup that he launched.The slightly farcical aspect is that despite the shame and disgrace the coupsters and their not so anonymous backers brought on the country, there are still apparently those who believe the country's political and social difficultues would be cured by military intervention.Worked so well last time.Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain.

[phiphidon]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

What did Sonthi have to do with the Democrats forming government?

There were two coups, the first a military one led by Sonthi. This led to a constitution being ripped up and replaced by a new one. The new one placed overwhelming power into the hands of the Judiciary. This power coupled with a compliant EC paved the way for the dissolution of political parties at will. Commonly known as the Judicial Coup. Parties fell, one party emerged out of the dust and the rest is history. Well for them it is, luckily.

Yes indeed unfair to dissolve parties, just because they do vote buying and electional fraud. The courts shouldn't have the power to do something against that. Fraud and vote buying is the best thing we can think of. Taking it away and demanding clean elections is an evil "Judicial Coup".

Unfortunately that is the way of Thai politics and you're naive at the very least if you think that the democrats have not engaged in vote buying, electoral fraud, populist policies or any other of the accusations thrown at Thaksins parties in all their forms.

The difference is each time a Thaksin Party has been toppled by a coup, or dissolved or had the election disallowed they have come back each time and won the election at the ballot box.

And still the democrats cannot beat them by that most democratic of means, the election. The last time that happened was in 1992 and they have never had an outright parliamentary majority, a p.p.poor record for the oldest political party in Thailand.

[DP25]

And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money.

That's the only reason any of them were with Thaksin to begin. Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people.

[whybother]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

What did Sonthi have to do with the Democrats forming government?

Meeting in an army barracks ring any bells. Who was it that joined with PT that said he went with Abhisit because he had an offer he could not refuse. And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money. Selective memory loss me thinks

Wasn't it Anupong that was in charge then? Sonthi wasn't involved in that.

[koosdeboer]

And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money.

That's the only reason any of them were with Thaksin to begin. Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people.

Who can argue against this? Only the ones blinded by devotion.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[jayboy]

Who can argue against this?

Every serious political analyst and historian.

[h90]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

What did Sonthi have to do with the Democrats forming government?

Meeting in an army barracks ring any bells. Who was it that joined with PT that said he went with Abhisit because he had an offer he could not refuse. And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money. Selective memory loss me thinks

Sonthi??? Sonthi was long retired at that time

[longway]

Who can argue against this?

Every serious political analyst and historian.

For example?

[h90]

Unfortunately that is the way of Thai politics and you're naive at the very least if you think that the democrats have not engaged in vote buying, electoral fraud, populist policies or any other of the accusations thrown at Thaksins parties in all their forms.

The difference is each time a Thaksin Party has been toppled by a coup, or dissolved or had the election disallowed they have come back each time and won the election at the ballot box.

And still the democrats cannot beat them by that most democratic of means, the election. The last time that happened was in 1992 and they have never had an outright parliamentary majority, a p.p.poor record for the oldest political party in Thailand.

Democrats had minor problems with vote buying. No one, not even the red blame the Democrats for full scale vote buying.

And yes it is the way politic runs in Thailand, but not out of unfortune. It is because Thaksin and his buddies are doing it again and again.

My question is, if the people love them that much, why they need to spend billions every time again to secure their elections??

[tlansford]

Who can argue against this?

Every serious political analyst and historian.

For example?

Baker

[h90]

I don't understand why the democrats stick to Abhisit and don't find any stronger person???

Any suggestions in mind?

Actually the problem with Abhisit is not that he is weak but that, despite all his qualities, he is a poor politician and as it turns a rather mean spirited one..At one time the Democrats were a truly national party.I would have thought the challenge would be to adopt well thought out policies (not just facile populism) which had wide support with leadership that appealed to a wide cross section of Thais.

As to Sonthi he is as thick as cold custard, difficult for anyone with any sense to take seriously.And yet there are those who criticise him now (including a comment by Animatic which is probably actionable) who were salivating at the time of criminal coup that he launched.The slightly farcical aspect is that despite the shame and disgrace the coupsters and their not so anonymous backers brought on the country, there are still apparently those who believe the country's political and social difficultues would be cured by military intervention.Worked so well last time.Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain.

No one in mind.....I agree with you assessment of Abhisit. With weak I meant his non-actions with the red shirts and let things escalate.

Clear the demonstrations much earlier

Step back

promise early elections

or anything else...

from all possible solutions he picked the worst one....doing nothing till it is too late.

[smedly]

and the next fugetive on the run in Montanegro is ...................

[jayboy]

Chris Baker is one authority but let's be quite clear.The outlandish view of Thai politics and history set out by DP25 and I quote:

" Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people."

- has no support in any quarter other than the tinfoil hat community.The key error is to suppose that there were no issues in Thai society that Thaksin was able to exploit.The argument can certainly be made that Thaksin acted cynically and through self interest.However if there had not been a groundswell throught the country against the elite's greed, patronising contempt and lack of fairness Thaksion would never have gained traction.That's why his parties win election after election despite the coup and the "directed" judicial system.

[volk666]

if there had not been a groundswell throught the country against the elite's greed, patronising contempt and lack of fairness Thaksion would never have gained traction.

There was no groundswell of any kind when TRT won in 2001 and 2005, what are you talking about?

And with the current "groundswell" pro-Thaksin parties still can't match their 2005 results.

[longway]

Chris Baker is one authority but let's be quite clear.The outlandish view of Thai politics and history set out by DP25 and I quote:

" Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people."

- has no support in any quarter other than the tinfoil hat community.The key error is to suppose that there were no issues in Thai society that Thaksin was able to exploit.The argument can certainly be made that Thaksin acted cynically and through self interest.However if there had not been a groundswell throught the country against the elite's greed, patronising contempt and lack of fairness Thaksion would never have gained traction.That's why his parties win election after election despite the coup and the "directed" judicial system.

Are the 2 views completely incompatible? DP25 may have left out quite alot, there is certainly more than a grain of truth in what he says. Thaksin used his money to bring existing political local and regional power structures to his side, especially during the initial rise of the TRT. Thats the impression I got from reading Chris Baker's books anyway.

Later, the party brand of Thaksin and TRT and their policies helped ensure continued loyalty from them and the electorate, and as you say long standing social and economic issues played a part in his rise and his continued popularity.

However it doesn't mean DP25 is not making an observation without any truth whatsoever.

Edited March 27, 2012 by longway

[dominique355]

This guy Sonthi should be put in prison for high treason. He swore an oath to protect the Constitution but he broke his oath. In military terms he is a treator and should be court martialled. Perhaps the constitution should be amended to allow this.

How can anyone half wit elect such a guy in a parliament when all his previous life suggest that he has no respect for democracy, rule of law and freedom?

But not enough, they even make him the chairman of the reconciliation commission! And still, he makes his little show about who is behind the coup. HE is the reason for all the mess in today's politics in Thailand.

[DP25]

And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money.

That's the only reason any of them were with Thaksin to begin. Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people.

Who can argue against this? Only the ones blinded by devotion.

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Those ignorant of what is happening, and those who seek to ensure that people remain in this state.

Red shirts continually try to proclaim that their gaggle of wealthy, corrupt, dynastic political families represent some kind 'change' and revolt against the elite. The primary 'change' that occurred, was that Thaksin was the first person rich enough to buy these corrupt politicians en masse. The people at the local level are voting for the same people and families they always have. They are simply a giant political coalition that has been purchased by Thaksin, made up traditional local elites that now masquerade as agents of change, all while working to further their own interests at the expense of the people.

[jayboy]

However it doesn't mean DP25 is not making an observation without any truth whatsoever.

I agree but when all reference to perhaps the most salient issue is omitted the narrative becomes suspect or even useless.

[geriatrickid]

Ahh I see. Now that the Democrats disagree and Mr. Abhisit is showing a bit of fear for his day of reckoning...

I thought they called it "reconciliation".

I don't know what has happened to Sonthi, he is largely irrelevant now, but PTP is testing the waters again against all the warnings from both local and international concerned parties - do not provoke another round of conflicts.

Now it's hard to disagree with Democrats that PTP's real agenda is Thaksin's well-being, not the country's. Yingluck was given a chance but she seems largely irrelevant, too.

Perhaps it's a banned 111 plan to destabilize the country and the government so that they can force new elections and resume all political powers.

Good luck with that.

Day of reckoning because as the truth comes out Mr. Abhisit will be shown to be a petty opportunist that did not speak out when the military dismissed the elected government. I expect that the next election will see Mr. Abhisit further humiliated at the ballot box.

If General Sonthi is irrelevant as you claim, why then are the frothers getting their knickers in a knot? The Democrats didn't think he was irrelevant when he was given the position and fell over themselves offering praise.

Why do you use the term "force" elections? The PM can call for an election any time.

Edited March 27, 2012 by geriatrickid

[whybother]

This guy Sonthi should be put in prison for high treason. He swore an oath to protect the Constitution but he broke his oath. In military terms he is a treator and should be court martialled. Perhaps the constitution should be amended to allow this.

How can anyone half wit elect such a guy in a parliament when all his previous life suggest that he has no respect for democracy, rule of law and freedom?

But not enough, they even make him the chairman of the reconciliation commission! And still, he makes his little show about who is behind the coup. HE is the reason for all the mess in today's politics in Thailand.

I think his oath was to the King, not the constitution.

He was elected partly because people believe that he was protecting democracy by removing Thaksin.

[tlansford]

Chris Baker is one authority but let's be quite clear.The outlandish view of Thai politics and history set out by DP25 and I quote:

" Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people."

- has no support in any quarter other than the tinfoil hat community.The key error is to suppose that there were no issues in Thai society that Thaksin was able to exploit.The argument can certainly be made that Thaksin acted cynically and through self interest.However if there had not been a groundswell throught the country against the elite's greed, patronising contempt and lack of fairness Thaksion would never have gained traction.That's why his parties win election after election despite the coup and the "directed" judicial system.

Jayboy - agree with you. Baker was the first to come to mind in response to demands for a name... a question most anyone could have answered for themselves.

[volk666]

Day of reckoning because as the truth comes out Mr. Abhisit will be shown to be a petty opportunist that did not speak out when the military dismissed the elected government. I expect that the next election will see Mr. Abhisit further humiliated at the ballot box.

If it is indeed a day or reckoning then they should not mention the word "reconciliation", no one in Democrat's camps believes them anyway, it's all a show to help Thaksin.

If General Sonthi is irrelevant as you claim, why then are the frothers getting their knickers in a knot? The Democrats didn't think he was irrelevant when he was given the position and fell over themselves offering praise.

When Democrats praised him a couple of months ago they certainly didn't expect him to fully support PTP side and cut them off. Now that he did it he lost all his value, he acts just like another PTP stooge, they've got hundreds of those already.

Why do you use the term "force" elections? The PM can call for an election any time.

I was thinking about ambitions of those banned 111 who want to come back but have no power to call elections at will so they need a government crisis. They would probably reinstall Yingluck again, so whether she wants to call elections or not is irrelevant, it's not for her, she can keep smiling.

[volk666]

This guy Sonthi should be put in prison for high treason. He swore an oath to protect the Constitution but he broke his oath. In military terms he is a treator and should be court martialled. Perhaps the constitution should be amended to allow this.

How can anyone half wit elect such a guy in a parliament when all his previous life suggest that he has no respect for democracy, rule of law and freedom?

But not enough, they even make him the chairman of the reconciliation commission! And still, he makes his little show about who is behind the coup. HE is the reason for all the mess in today's politics in Thailand.

But Sonthi is now Jatuporn's best friend now! It's all good, you can put your outrage away. Reds will probably present him with a complimentary t-shirt soon.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

There were two coups, the first a military one led by Sonthi. This led to a constitution being ripped up and replaced by a new one. The new one placed overwhelming power into the hands of the Judiciary. This power coupled with a compliant EC paved the way for the dissolution of political parties at will. Commonly known as the Judicial Coup. Parties fell, one party emerged out of the dust and the rest is history. Well for them it is, luckily.

Yes indeed unfair to dissolve parties, just because they do vote buying and electional fraud. The courts shouldn't have the power to do something against that. Fraud and vote buying is the best thing we can think of. Taking it away and demanding clean elections is an evil "Judicial Coup".

It is completely counterproductive to dissolve an entire party because some of its members are corrupt. Especially when every party in every election buys votes - it is completely normal and accepted here, not a big deal at all.

[volk666]

It is completely counterproductive to dissolve an entire party because some of its members are corrupt. Especially when every party in every election buys votes - it is completely normal and accepted here, not a big deal at all.

Not because some its members are corrupt, because its executive members are corrupt and encourage electoral fraud among ordinary politicians.

For some people electoral fraud IS a big deal and they want their country to have clean elections and cleaner politics.

Also there's little evidence that banning executives and dissolving parties had only negative effect on Thai politics. We have hundreds of new politicians, for example, and in the last elections no one dared to cheap openly, they are apparently learning something, and people are much more aware of at least some explicit forms of vote buying an it is not as effective as it used to be.