Racism Against Farangs

[edwardandtubs]

Please advise us on two issues.

Where do you live? (town, province)

Do you communicate mainly in Thai or English?

After we have the answers to these questions we will all be in a much better position to comment

(If you have alreadyanswered the above, then I apologise).

I live in Onnut Bangkok.

My thai is minimal, but judging of the tone of comments I hear about the "farang" on the bus I prefer not to know more

All your troubles you're bringing on yourself. Why should you be treated with any respect when you can't even be bothered to learn the language? You complain about racism yet by your own account you don't even want to understand what people are saying to you. They could be saying 'look at that dirty stinking loser over there. He doesn't look like your average farang' but all you hear is "farang" and get upset.

It's fine if someone doesn't want to learn Thai but you can't expect to use local services at local prices if you don't speak the local language.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[Mobi]

OK, you live in the heart of a big city, and like big cities all over the world, they can be lonely, unfriendly and cruel places.

I know Onnut quite well as one my ex wives used to have a hair salon there. It might have changed since last spent time there, but during my days I never ever experienced any racism or rude behaviour, but I admit that I did not take the buses. But I did spend a fair amount of time amongst Thais there, and like everywhere I have been in Thailand I found them, on the whole friendlier and more willing to help than most people from my home country.

But like any big city, most people were more concerned with their own personal affairs than worrying about some farang in their midst.

I now live some 20 kms east of central Pattaya, and even here the difference in the attitude by Thais towards me,as compared to down-town Pattaya, is chalk to cheese.

If you want to know what Thais are really like, the further you get away from big city environments the better, but even here, the Thais are great - most of them are better than the general class of farangs who have recently moved into the area.

They're polite, deferential when the occasion demands it, (i.e when I am a customer), usually very friendly and often offer to help when needed.

I can honestly say that after coming to Thailand since the early 70's and living here all told for almost 20 years, off and on, I have never detected any outright racism towards me and no Thai has ever insulted me or given me a hard time to my face. Neither have I ever been attacked, robbed or in any way been a victim of bad Thai behaviour. And trust me, I have been in some pretty unsavoury places at pretty unsavoury times, in a pretty unsavoury state. In fact, in my worst drinking days, when I have been in a really bad state, it has always been Thais who have come to my rescue and taken care of me.

I was talking about this very subject with a friend the other day, who has lived here even longer than me, and has also had a very similar, good experience of Thais. I think it is all down to how you behave, and how you react with Thais. The obvious behaviour 'pointers' are: never to stare at strangers; if you do make eye contact, always smile, and generally behave in a soft, polite manner, much as you might expect them to behave towards you.

But it is more than this, it is more instinctive, and if, deep down you don't really feel very friendly, the Thais will sense it.

Of course it goes without saying that the more Thai you can speak, the more you will be both respected and accepted. It never fails to astonish me how farangs can live here half their lives yet can barely speak a dozen words in very bad Thai.

If you were in England and a Thai who had lived there for 20 years spoke to you in such bad English that you couldn't understand a word he was saying, how would you feel about him?

Now I'm not suggesting that everyone should run to school and learn Thai in order to make the Thais more friendly, but I am suggesting that anyone who wants to interact in any meaningful level with the average 'Thai in the street' should at least make an effort to speak a bit of basic Thai, and more important than the extent of your vocabulary, is the clarity with which you speak it. The clearer your Thai, the more you will be respected. Go learn from another Thai - not from a school. Immerse yourself in Thai for a few weeks. And never, ever learn Thai from a dictionary with phonetic spelling - it will screw you up forever. Learn by listening.

These days, I speak pretty good Thai, (all learned from 'immersion'), but there was a time when my Thai was minimal. But what I did know, I spoke very clearly, and it never failed to impress any Thai person who I spoke to.

Frankly, as soon as a Thai hears you speak Thai reasonably clearly, their whole attitude changes and they accept you as part of the Thai community. It is almost as though by speaking Thai, you are considered knowledgeable on all aspects of Thai culture and thinking. This isn't necessary the case, but many seem to think it is.

Of course, there are many farangs who have no desire to learn Thai and they also have no desire to interact with Thais at 'street level. I knew a German, a retired banker, who, when I asked , wouldn't it be nice to hold a conversation with the street noodle seller when you buy a bowl of noodles, answered: 'I never have any desire to eat noodles or any other Thai food and I have no desire to communicate with anyone here. I have everything I need in my house and my driver and wife do all the shopping.'

Farangs are guests in an alien country with a culture so far removed from their own. It is screamingly obvious that it is the farang who should be the one who should make the effort to fit in and be accepted, rather than the other way round.

Thais are as good and as bad as any other race of people and the have their likes, dislikes and prejudices, just like the rest of us. I personally happen to believe they are actually better than most races, but that it just my opinion. But if you are having many problems fitting in and think that all Thais are racists, then with respect, I suggest it is you, and not them who is at fault as many other farangs do not experience similar problems.

Maybe you are simply not cut out to live in Thailand and maybe you would be happier somewhere else.

[JSixpack]

Donate that B20,000 to a Royal project or a Buddhist temple or even an orphanage and THEN you're a good citizen.

...and make a big show of it all of course, just so every one knows...

YES!!!

[HeavyDrinker]

OK, bear in mind that food vendors, who actually prepare the food on the spot are famous for appearing "ignorant" or "deaf" to our eyes especially if they are busy, however they often do take in your order and you'll get it in time.

Personally speaking, I've been told countless times (by my fellow Westerners) that they are surprised how "liked" I am in my area and they ask me what I do to earn such friendliness.

The truth is that I couldn't say. I simply apply the old adage of treating others (no matter who they are) as I would like to be treated myself and it has held me in good stead.

At times it can be worth putting yourself in other people's shoes no matter how bad a day you may have had.

Some small act of kindness like a few beers for your local motorbike lads or a bottle of red bull and a pack of smokes for your security guards or an occasional 50B tip for your favourite waitress can go a long way.

Stop and think to yourself for a moment that some of the everyday people you come across may well spend the rest of their lives flogging 20B noodles in the baking heat or selling vegetables for a few hundred baht they've spent all day harvesting themselves or they have to serve thankless customers all day who's culture doesn't include tipping, for a pittance of a wage...and so on and so forth.

The above is a part (and only a part) of what the Thais call "Kreng Jai" which loosely translates as empathy or sympathy (it runs much deeper but I'm trying to nutshell this for you) and is a concept worth learning if you want to succeed here.

Whilst I applaud you for showing kindness to these poor unfortunate dogs, if maybe you concentrated on the people around you every day a little more, you may find yourself appreciated a lot more in return.

[aneliane]

Please advise us on two issues.

Where do you live? (town, province)

Do you communicate mainly in Thai or English?

After we have the answers to these questions we will all be in a much better position to comment

(If you have alreadyanswered the above, then I apologise).

I live in Onnut Bangkok.

My thai is minimal, but judging of the tone of comments I hear about the "farang" on the bus I prefer not to know more

All your troubles you're bringing on yourself. Why should you be treated with any respect when you can't even be bothered to learn the language? You complain about racism yet by your own account you don't even want to understand what people are saying to you. They could be saying 'look at that dirty stinking loser over there. He doesn't look like your average farang' but all you hear is "farang" and get upset.

It's fine if someone doesn't want to learn Thai but you can't expect to use local services at local prices if you don't speak the local language.

I said my Thai was minimum, I did not say I was not learning

I am learning the language give me a break I am trying

By the way I have a friend who speak quite good Thai and no English at all and people are rude to him too

[aneliane]

OK, you live in the heart of a big city, and like big cities all over the world, they can be lonely, unfriendly and cruel places.

I know Onnut quite well as one my ex wives used to have a hair salon there. It might have changed since last spent time there, but during my days I never ever experienced any racism or rude behaviour, but I admit that I did not take the buses. But I did spend a fair amount of time amongst Thais there, and like everywhere I have been in Thailand I found them, on the whole friendlier and more willing to help than most people from my home country.

But like any big city, most people were more concerned with their own personal affairs than worrying about some farang in their midst.

I now live some 20 kms east of central Pattaya, and even here the difference in the attitude by Thais towards me,as compared to down-town Pattaya, is chalk to cheese.

If you want to know what Thais are really like, the further you get away from big city environments the better, but even here, the Thais are great - most of them are better than the general class of farangs who have recently moved into the area.

They're polite, deferential when the occasion demands it, (i.e when I am a customer), usually very friendly and often offer to help when needed.

I can honestly say that after coming to Thailand since the early 70's and living here all told for almost 20 years, off and on, I have never detected any outright racism towards me and no Thai has ever insulted me or given me a hard time to my face. Neither have I ever been attacked, robbed or in any way been a victim of bad Thai behaviour. And trust me, I have been in some pretty unsavoury places at pretty unsavoury times, in a pretty unsavoury state. In fact, in my worst drinking days, when I have been in a really bad state, it has always been Thais who have come to my rescue and taken care of me.

I was talking about this very subject with a friend the other day, who has lived here even longer than me, and has also had a very similar, good experience of Thais. I think it is all down to how you behave, and how you react with Thais. The obvious behaviour 'pointers' are: never to stare at strangers; if you do make eye contact, always smile, and generally behave in a soft, polite manner, much as you might expect them to behave towards you.

But it is more than this, it is more instinctive, and if, deep down you don't really feel very friendly, the Thais will sense it.

Of course it goes without saying that the more Thai you can speak, the more you will be both respected and accepted. It never fails to astonish me how farangs can live here half their lives yet can barely speak a dozen words in very bad Thai.

If you were in England and a Thai who had lived there for 20 years spoke to you in such bad English that you couldn't understand a word he was saying, how would you feel about him?

Now I'm not suggesting that everyone should run to school and learn Thai in order to make the Thais more friendly, but I am suggesting that anyone who wants to interact in any meaningful level with the average 'Thai in the street' should at least make an effort to speak a bit of basic Thai, and more important than the extent of your vocabulary, is the clarity with which you speak it. The clearer your Thai, the more you will be respected. Go learn from another Thai - not from a school. Immerse yourself in Thai for a few weeks. And never, ever learn Thai from a dictionary with phonetic spelling - it will screw you up forever. Learn by listening.

These days, I speak pretty good Thai, (all learned from 'immersion'), but there was a time when my Thai was minimal. But what I did know, I spoke very clearly, and it never failed to impress any Thai person who I spoke to.

Frankly, as soon as a Thai hears you speak Thai reasonably clearly, their whole attitude changes and they accept you as part of the Thai community. It is almost as though by speaking Thai, you are considered knowledgeable on all aspects of Thai culture and thinking. This isn't necessary the case, but many seem to think it is.

Of course, there are many farangs who have no desire to learn Thai and they also have no desire to interact with Thais at 'street level. I knew a German, a retired banker, who, when I asked , wouldn't it be nice to hold a conversation with the street noodle seller when you buy a bowl of noodles, answered: 'I never have any desire to eat noodles or any other Thai food and I have no desire to communicate with anyone here. I have everything I need in my house and my driver and wife do all the shopping.'

Farangs are guests in an alien country with a culture so far removed from their own. It is screamingly obvious that it is the farang who should be the one who should make the effort to fit in and be accepted, rather than the other way round.

Thais are as good and as bad as any other race of people and the have their likes, dislikes and prejudices, just like the rest of us. I personally happen to believe they are actually better than most races, but that it just my opinion. But if you are having many problems fitting in and think that all Thais are racists, then with respect, I suggest it is you, and not them who is at fault as many other farangs do not experience similar problems.

Maybe you are simply not cut out to live in Thailand and maybe you would be happier somewhere else.

Sorry I might not have been clear : My question was "how to deal with racism" not "I am unhappy here please help"

[theblether]

Please advise us on two issues.

Where do you live? (town, province)

Do you communicate mainly in Thai or English?

After we have the answers to these questions we will all be in a much better position to comment

(If you have alreadyanswered the above, then I apologise).

I live in Onnut Bangkok.

My thai is minimal, but judging of the tone of comments I hear about the "farang" on the bus I prefer not to know more

All your troubles you're bringing on yourself. Why should you be treated with any respect when you can't even be bothered to learn the language? You complain about racism yet by your own account you don't even want to understand what people are saying to you. They could be saying 'look at that dirty stinking loser over there. He doesn't look like your average farang' but all you hear is "farang" and get upset.

It's fine if someone doesn't want to learn Thai but you can't expect to use local services at local prices if you don't speak the local language.

I said my Thai was minimum, I did not say I was not learning

I am learning the language give me a break I am trying

By the way I have a friend who speak quite good Thai and no English at all and people are rude to him too

I must say I'm surprised you are staying in BKK, I had pictured you being out of the city somewhere. I have not been to a capital city anywhere in the world which did not feel unfriendly at times. Maybe you are more suited temperamentally to a smaller community.

It's a numbers game, you don't know what experience people in your area have had with farangs, you don't know if the lady you mentioned is sick of being abused by farangs. Maybe you would be better getting into an area where people can see the real you more.

[StreetCowboy]

Please advise us on two issues.

Where do you live? (town, province)

Do you communicate mainly in Thai or English?

After we have the answers to these questions we will all be in a much better position to comment

(If you have alreadyanswered the above, then I apologise).

I live in Onnut Bangkok.

My thai is minimal, but judging of the tone of comments I hear about the "farang" on the bus I prefer not to know more

All your troubles you're bringing on yourself. Why should you be treated with any respect when you can't even be bothered to learn the language? You complain about racism yet by your own account you don't even want to understand what people are saying to you. They could be saying 'look at that dirty stinking loser over there. He doesn't look like your average farang' but all you hear is "farang" and get upset.

It's fine if someone doesn't want to learn Thai but you can't expect to use local services at local prices if you don't speak the local language.

I said my Thai was minimum, I did not say I was not learning

I am learning the language give me a break I am trying

By the way I have a friend who speak quite good Thai and no English at all and people are rude to him too

I think to some extent you make a rod for your own back trying to live 'like a local' without adopting their values. I reckon that if you were Thai, and lived on your own, people would ignore you and think of you as a sad, lonely loser for the first five or ten or twenty years, until they got used to you. Not because you were sad, or lonely, or a loser, but because you were an outsider. You are perhaps lucky that they can so readily ascribe your uniqueness to your being farang.

I am lucky that I was always willing to fit into my expected place in the hierarchy, and in my relationship with my neighbours, my staff, my clients, staff in the pub and in restaurants, and other people that I interacted with. Perhaops if I had done better at fitting into that role, tried a little harder, I might have kept my job... but trying to live a different life from that expected of you by those around you will always make things difficult. Some people thrive on such challenges. I was delighted to have the opportunity to start again elsewhere, rather than hanging on by my fingernails and flogging a dead horse

SC

[arthurwait]

Aneliane,

Have you possibly done something - albeit inadvertently - which may have upset the locals?

I find the whole situation odder now as you live in On Nut which while not exactly a Westerner "hotbed", certainly isn't bereft of them.

I give you one example :

At a food counter in a food court:

The lady and older one, is going back and forth behind the counter.

I stand there ignored trying to make eye contact and smile

I try a "Sawadika"

No answer

After 5 minutes of being ignored the guy from the next counter, a friendly younger guy I just bought something a few minutes before, comes to my rescue and say : " I will serve you instead of her"

And he apologized about her behaviour, and take my order. she still did not look at me, it was as if I was transparent.

I said "maipenrai, I get it all the time" and thanked him profusely for his nice gesture.

I know she was being racist, I have never seen her before and nor did she.

The other friendly guy knew it too, that's why he was embarrassed about the situation, gesturing to me that her attitude was not right.

But that's the way it goes here.

I say the guy being extra nice balance out the horrible old lady, and makes it alright, but not always ... I mean sometimes there is no nicer person to come to my rescue ...

Both examples you have given are older women, but younger guys came to your rescue.

Two things with older, how old though, Thai women:

1 You'll find many are too shy to talk to farangs even look at them.

2 Someone posted you are a women, many older Thai women don't think much of the way western women dress even what is considered very conservative in the west , any one or all of ; clevage, short skirts, bra straps showing, hot pants, low arm holed tops, tatoos. etc.These women also have no sex before marriage etc beliefs and brand women displaying the above as well you can guess.

The "I'm here to help" line in the OP most Thais will just find patronizing. If you display this attitude people will just think idiot.

The only Thais that work with farangs will get rich bit shows you have little understanding of Thailand. The majority of middle class and up in this country are Thai- Chinese and have little to do with farangs. It's mostly about land to get rich in this country. Farangs have nothing to do with that.

If your Thai is limited like you say it is than you will struggle to comunicate and when you learn to read Thai you will find lots, if not most words you thought were correct no matter how many times you checked were wrong and just sound like a tourist with a guide book.

[aneliane]

Aneliane,

Have you possibly done something - albeit inadvertently - which may have upset the locals?

I find the whole situation odder now as you live in On Nut which while not exactly a Westerner "hotbed", certainly isn't bereft of them.

I travel all over Bangkok.

I don't interact much in Onnut as such apart with a couple of ladies who are very nice and do my laundry.

I do my shopping in bang kapi, and Big C Onnut, and work in Bangna, Nichada, Phrom pong, Asoke & Thonglor,

But Sirindom ER in onnut is the place they refused to give me emergency medical care

[StreetCowboy]

OK, you live in the heart of a big city, and like big cities all over the world, they can be lonely, unfriendly and cruel places.

I know Onnut quite well as one my ex wives used to have a hair salon there. It might have changed since last spent time there, but during my days I never ever experienced any racism or rude behaviour, but I admit that I did not take the buses. But I did spend a fair amount of time amongst Thais there, and like everywhere I have been in Thailand I found them, on the whole friendlier and more willing to help than most people from my home country.

But like any big city, most people were more concerned with their own personal affairs than worrying about some farang in their midst.

I now live some 20 kms east of central Pattaya, and even here the difference in the attitude by Thais towards me,as compared to down-town Pattaya, is chalk to cheese.

If you want to know what Thais are really like, the further you get away from big city environments the better, but even here, the Thais are great - most of them are better than the general class of farangs who have recently moved into the area.

They're polite, deferential when the occasion demands it, (i.e when I am a customer), usually very friendly and often offer to help when needed.

I can honestly say that after coming to Thailand since the early 70's and living here all told for almost 20 years, off and on, I have never detected any outright racism towards me and no Thai has ever insulted me or given me a hard time to my face. Neither have I ever been attacked, robbed or in any way been a victim of bad Thai behaviour. And trust me, I have been in some pretty unsavoury places at pretty unsavoury times, in a pretty unsavoury state. In fact, in my worst drinking days, when I have been in a really bad state, it has always been Thais who have come to my rescue and taken care of me.

I was talking about this very subject with a friend the other day, who has lived here even longer than me, and has also had a very similar, good experience of Thais. I think it is all down to how you behave, and how you react with Thais. The obvious behaviour 'pointers' are: never to stare at strangers; if you do make eye contact, always smile, and generally behave in a soft, polite manner, much as you might expect them to behave towards you.

But it is more than this, it is more instinctive, and if, deep down you don't really feel very friendly, the Thais will sense it.

Of course it goes without saying that the more Thai you can speak, the more you will be both respected and accepted. It never fails to astonish me how farangs can live here half their lives yet can barely speak a dozen words in very bad Thai.

If you were in England and a Thai who had lived there for 20 years spoke to you in such bad English that you couldn't understand a word he was saying, how would you feel about him?

Now I'm not suggesting that everyone should run to school and learn Thai in order to make the Thais more friendly, but I am suggesting that anyone who wants to interact in any meaningful level with the average 'Thai in the street' should at least make an effort to speak a bit of basic Thai, and more important than the extent of your vocabulary, is the clarity with which you speak it. The clearer your Thai, the more you will be respected. Go learn from another Thai - not from a school. Immerse yourself in Thai for a few weeks. And never, ever learn Thai from a dictionary with phonetic spelling - it will screw you up forever. Learn by listening.

These days, I speak pretty good Thai, (all learned from 'immersion'), but there was a time when my Thai was minimal. But what I did know, I spoke very clearly, and it never failed to impress any Thai person who I spoke to.

Frankly, as soon as a Thai hears you speak Thai reasonably clearly, their whole attitude changes and they accept you as part of the Thai community. It is almost as though by speaking Thai, you are considered knowledgeable on all aspects of Thai culture and thinking. This isn't necessary the case, but many seem to think it is.

Of course, there are many farangs who have no desire to learn Thai and they also have no desire to interact with Thais at 'street level. I knew a German, a retired banker, who, when I asked , wouldn't it be nice to hold a conversation with the street noodle seller when you buy a bowl of noodles, answered: 'I never have any desire to eat noodles or any other Thai food and I have no desire to communicate with anyone here. I have everything I need in my house and my driver and wife do all the shopping.'

Farangs are guests in an alien country with a culture so far removed from their own. It is screamingly obvious that it is the farang who should be the one who should make the effort to fit in and be accepted, rather than the other way round.

Thais are as good and as bad as any other race of people and the have their likes, dislikes and prejudices, just like the rest of us. I personally happen to believe they are actually better than most races, but that it just my opinion. But if you are having many problems fitting in and think that all Thais are racists, then with respect, I suggest it is you, and not them who is at fault as many other farangs do not experience similar problems.

Maybe you are simply not cut out to live in Thailand and maybe you would be happier somewhere else.

Sorry I might not have been clear : My question was "how to deal with racism" not "I am unhappy here please help"

Perhaps you could to learn the words for 'deaf' and 'blind'; it won't help you much, but it might raise a laugh from bystanders...

Of course, then the other person will lose face, and hate you for ever... sometimes ignorance is bliss...

One of the difficulties with posting threads like this is that our readership is predominantly male, and they treat everything as a problem to be solved - sometimes as a challenge. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that no-one has told you to 'man up', grow a pear and resort to physical violence.

SC

[JSixpack]

Aneliane,

Have you possibly done something - albeit inadvertently - which may have upset the locals?

I find the whole situation odder now as you live in On Nut which while not exactly a Westerner "hotbed", certainly isn't bereft of them.

I give you one example :

At a food counter in a food court:

The lady and older one, is going back and forth behind the counter.

I stand there ignored trying to make eye contact and smile

You can't stand around waiting. Thais can be SO lazy that they'll ignore you just to avoid working if they see you'll accept being ignored. The lady at the counter may well not be the owner of the shop and isn't working on commission. (Try approaching one of the ladies working a booth selling condos in a project--notice the vast difference!)

You have get that smile and "Sawatdee" out there assertively, even peremptorily, soon as you approach the counter. If that's ignored, do it again insistently, maybe joke about being "hiu" (hungry) till you get attention.

This is just par for the course. You have to laugh.

Now, as everywhere, some can be just vile. That fat, tough ol' dyke pumping gas today I encountered at my local gas station when I went to fill up--very unfriendly. But what do you expect, really. What boring jobs these people have, no pay, bottom of every scale, and here YOU are to cause possible complications. WHO do you think you are?

I agree w/ what Mobi said above. Thoughful, well put, and correct.

[Mobi]

Sorry I might not have been clear : My question was "how to deal with racism" not "I am unhappy here please help"

aneliane,

Listen to Dr Mobi...

You are clearly unhappy, or you wouldn't have posted the way you did.

Nobody can tell you how to deal with racism, any more than we could tell someone how to deal with 'flying pink elephants' they see in the sky.

We have to go to the root cause of your perceived racialism if we are to deal with it.

Don't you see? you tell us about 'leuk kreungs' who are badly treated, which nobody has ever heard of before, as the opposite is usually the case; you tell us of friends who speak good Thai who also suffer from rudeness.

In everyone else's experience, this is all simply not possible, unless you are behaving in such a way as to cause it to happen. It seems to be all in your mind, and with respect, maybe you should spend your dog money on a good therapist.

Think well on this and the replies you have received on this thread. The answer is here - you have to find it.

Good luck,

Mobi

[aneliane]

OK, you live in the heart of a big city, and like big cities all over the world, they can be lonely, unfriendly and cruel places.

I know Onnut quite well as one my ex wives used to have a hair salon there. It might have changed since last spent time there, but during my days I never ever experienced any racism or rude behaviour, but I admit that I did not take the buses. But I did spend a fair amount of time amongst Thais there, and like everywhere I have been in Thailand I found them, on the whole friendlier and more willing to help than most people from my home country.

But like any big city, most people were more concerned with their own personal affairs than worrying about some farang in their midst.

I now live some 20 kms east of central Pattaya, and even here the difference in the attitude by Thais towards me,as compared to down-town Pattaya, is chalk to cheese.

If you want to know what Thais are really like, the further you get away from big city environments the better, but even here, the Thais are great - most of them are better than the general class of farangs who have recently moved into the area.

They're polite, deferential when the occasion demands it, (i.e when I am a customer), usually very friendly and often offer to help when needed.

I can honestly say that after coming to Thailand since the early 70's and living here all told for almost 20 years, off and on, I have never detected any outright racism towards me and no Thai has ever insulted me or given me a hard time to my face. Neither have I ever been attacked, robbed or in any way been a victim of bad Thai behaviour. And trust me, I have been in some pretty unsavoury places at pretty unsavoury times, in a pretty unsavoury state. In fact, in my worst drinking days, when I have been in a really bad state, it has always been Thais who have come to my rescue and taken care of me.

I was talking about this very subject with a friend the other day, who has lived here even longer than me, and has also had a very similar, good experience of Thais. I think it is all down to how you behave, and how you react with Thais. The obvious behaviour 'pointers' are: never to stare at strangers; if you do make eye contact, always smile, and generally behave in a soft, polite manner, much as you might expect them to behave towards you.

But it is more than this, it is more instinctive, and if, deep down you don't really feel very friendly, the Thais will sense it.

Of course it goes without saying that the more Thai you can speak, the more you will be both respected and accepted. It never fails to astonish me how farangs can live here half their lives yet can barely speak a dozen words in very bad Thai.

If you were in England and a Thai who had lived there for 20 years spoke to you in such bad English that you couldn't understand a word he was saying, how would you feel about him?

Now I'm not suggesting that everyone should run to school and learn Thai in order to make the Thais more friendly, but I am suggesting that anyone who wants to interact in any meaningful level with the average 'Thai in the street' should at least make an effort to speak a bit of basic Thai, and more important than the extent of your vocabulary, is the clarity with which you speak it. The clearer your Thai, the more you will be respected. Go learn from another Thai - not from a school. Immerse yourself in Thai for a few weeks. And never, ever learn Thai from a dictionary with phonetic spelling - it will screw you up forever. Learn by listening.

These days, I speak pretty good Thai, (all learned from 'immersion'), but there was a time when my Thai was minimal. But what I did know, I spoke very clearly, and it never failed to impress any Thai person who I spoke to.

Frankly, as soon as a Thai hears you speak Thai reasonably clearly, their whole attitude changes and they accept you as part of the Thai community. It is almost as though by speaking Thai, you are considered knowledgeable on all aspects of Thai culture and thinking. This isn't necessary the case, but many seem to think it is.

Of course, there are many farangs who have no desire to learn Thai and they also have no desire to interact with Thais at 'street level. I knew a German, a retired banker, who, when I asked , wouldn't it be nice to hold a conversation with the street noodle seller when you buy a bowl of noodles, answered: 'I never have any desire to eat noodles or any other Thai food and I have no desire to communicate with anyone here. I have everything I need in my house and my driver and wife do all the shopping.'

Farangs are guests in an alien country with a culture so far removed from their own. It is screamingly obvious that it is the farang who should be the one who should make the effort to fit in and be accepted, rather than the other way round.

Thais are as good and as bad as any other race of people and the have their likes, dislikes and prejudices, just like the rest of us. I personally happen to believe they are actually better than most races, but that it just my opinion. But if you are having many problems fitting in and think that all Thais are racists, then with respect, I suggest it is you, and not them who is at fault as many other farangs do not experience similar problems.

Maybe you are simply not cut out to live in Thailand and maybe you would be happier somewhere else.

Sorry I might not have been clear : My question was "how to deal with racism" not "I am unhappy here please help"

Perhaps you could to learn the words for 'deaf' and 'blind'; it won't help you much, but it might raise a laugh from bystanders...

Of course, then the other person will lose face, and hate you for ever... sometimes ignorance is bliss...

One of the difficulties with posting threads like this is that our readership is predominantly male, and they treat everything as a problem to be solved - sometimes as a challenge. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that no-one has told you to 'man up', grow a pear and resort to physical violence.

SC

Correct I just been called a "he" by Edward

After being named a hippy that should return to Camden, I think I have read all the clichés possibles )

[aneliane]

Sorry I might not have been clear : My question was "how to deal with racism" not "I am unhappy here please help"

aneliane,

Listen to Dr Mobi...

You are clearly unhappy, or you wouldn't have posted the way you did.

Nobody can tell you how to deal with racism, any more than we could tell someone how to deal with 'flying pink elephants' they see in the sky.

We have to go to the root cause of your perceived racialism if we are to deal with it.

Don't you see? you tell us about 'leuk kreungs' who are badly treated, which nobody has ever heard of before, as the opposite is usually the case; you tell us of friends who speak good Thai who also suffer from rudeness.

In everyone else's experience, this is all simply not possible, unless you are behaving in such a way as to cause it to happen. It seems to be all in your mind, and with respect, maybe you should spend your dog money on a good therapist.

Think well on this and the replies you have received on this thread. The answer is here - you have to find it.

Good luck,

Mobi

I say I was thinking exactly like you before living on the cheap/thai way here.

Carry on living like farangs do and you will never encounter racism.

Thank you for your psychology session, but I AM happy here. And no racist in the world is not going to change this.

[h90]

I am since 10 years in Bangkok, on different places.

I don't speak Thai.

I have always been treated friendly.....Sure maybe there were some idiots somewhere. But less than when I was in Vienna.

Only thing I have seen is a positive racism. When I send my guy in the office with a broken HD to the shop, the shop tells him he is doing something wrong. If I go there they believe that I am smart enough and replace it.

[StreetCowboy]

Sorry I might not have been clear : My question was "how to deal with racism" not "I am unhappy here please help"

aneliane,

Listen to Dr Mobi...

You are clearly unhappy, or you wouldn't have posted the way you did.

Nobody can tell you how to deal with racism, any more than we could tell someone how to deal with 'flying pink elephants' they see in the sky.

We have to go to the root cause of your perceived racialism if we are to deal with it.

Don't you see? you tell us about 'leuk kreungs' who are badly treated, which nobody has ever heard of before, as the opposite is usually the case; you tell us of friends who speak good Thai who also suffer from rudeness.

In everyone else's experience, this is all simply not possible, unless you are behaving in such a way as to cause it to happen. It seems to be all in your mind, and with respect, maybe you should spend your dog money on a good therapist.

Think well on this and the replies you have received on this thread. The answer is here - you have to find it.

Good luck,

Mobi

You might need to read back over her previous posts to see whether she is happy or not.

I can't comment on the treatment of luk kreung, but I can confirm experience of some of the 'racist' behaviour that she has commented upon. For me, it is water off a duck's back, because I am not trying to get by on THB 200 a day or whatever, I have no qualms about going down to Sizzler for a family meal, and if I can't get a hair cut at one of the local salons, I can go to Sukhumvit Road and get Subway sandwiches for the kids while I'm there. Aneliane has chosen to eschew those options, but does not have a Thai wife / girlfriend to help her, and does not have the friendship that her patronage would engender if, like you or I, she was to squander thousands of baht down the town.

I think it is worth making the effort to empathise with our fellows when they put forward their angst, if only to remind ourselves why we don't do what they have done. There is little point in criticising our fellows for having different values to ourselves. "Why don't you just go home after four or five pints?". We have to accept that some people's lives are very different, and the worlds in which they live are very different, even if they live next door. There;s no point in arguing about which world is which.

SC

[GentlemanJim]

To be honest having read some of the replies you have given to people in the last 45 mins, considering that some people have taken a long time to try and help you, I am afraid you are making yourself almost undeserved of help. There is a lot of stuff going on on TV and people are spending time trying to help YOU, and your response is not encouraging.

Good luck.

[aneliane]

I am since 10 years in Bangkok, on different places.

I don't speak Thai.

I have always been treated friendly.....Sure maybe there were some idiots somewhere. But less than when I was in Vienna.

Only thing I have seen is a positive racism. When I send my guy in the office with a broken HD to the shop, the shop tells him he is doing something wrong. If I go there they believe that I am smart enough and replace it.

Yup I was thinking exactly like you when I was living like a farang.

People were actually treating me better than Thais most of the time.

I recall finding Thai most lovely and friendly people I have encountered

Try living "on the cheap" for a year, you will have a whole different perspective

[StreetCowboy]

I am since 10 years in Bangkok, on different places.

I don't speak Thai.

I have always been treated friendly.....Sure maybe there were some idiots somewhere. But less than when I was in Vienna.

Only thing I have seen is a positive racism. When I send my guy in the office with a broken HD to the shop, the shop tells him he is doing something wrong. If I go there they believe that I am smart enough and replace it.

Yup I was thinking exactly like you when I was living like a farang.

People were actually treating me better than Thais most of the time.

I recall finding Thai most lovely and friendly people I have encountered

Try living "on the cheap" for a year, you will have a whole different perspective

If you fit into your alloted place in society, you will find life pleasant and easy.

If you try to make a new place for yourself, or take someone else's place, it will always be a struggle.

You might find that struggle tiresome.

SC

[aneliane]

Sorry I might not have been clear : My question was "how to deal with racism" not "I am unhappy here please help"

aneliane,

Listen to Dr Mobi...

You are clearly unhappy, or you wouldn't have posted the way you did.

Nobody can tell you how to deal with racism, any more than we could tell someone how to deal with 'flying pink elephants' they see in the sky.

We have to go to the root cause of your perceived racialism if we are to deal with it.

Don't you see? you tell us about 'leuk kreungs' who are badly treated, which nobody has ever heard of before, as the opposite is usually the case; you tell us of friends who speak good Thai who also suffer from rudeness.

In everyone else's experience, this is all simply not possible, unless you are behaving in such a way as to cause it to happen. It seems to be all in your mind, and with respect, maybe you should spend your dog money on a good therapist.

Think well on this and the replies you have received on this thread. The answer is here - you have to find it.

Good luck,

Mobi

You might need to read back over her previous posts to see whether she is happy or not.

I can't comment on the treatment of luk kreung, but I can confirm experience of some of the 'racist' behaviour that she has commented upon. For me, it is water off a duck's back, because I am not trying to get by on THB 200 a day or whatever, I have no qualms about going down to Sizzler for a family meal, and if I can't get a hair cut at one of the local salons, I can go to Sukhumvit Road and get Subway sandwiches for the kids while I'm there. Aneliane has chosen to eschew those options, but does not have a Thai wife / girlfriend to help her, and does not have the friendship that her patronage would engender if, like you or I, she was to squander thousands of baht down the town.

I think it is worth making the effort to empathise with our fellows when they put forward their angst, if only to remind ourselves why we don't do what they have done. There is little point in criticising our fellows for having different values to ourselves. "Why don't you just go home after four or five pints?". We have to accept that some people's lives are very different, and the worlds in which they live are very different, even if they live next door. There;s no point in arguing about which world is which.

SC

Thank you for summing up my situation in such accurate manner.

And thank you for your support

[robblok]

Must say i got better treatment from the police then my wife did a few weeks ago.

We both made the same traffic error and the police was checking on the same spot. She was in the car got onto a lane from a spot that was not made for it (only for exitting the lane). Most cars do the same here because a bit later its dangerous to get on that road. She was caught had to pay 400 bt.

Yesterday i was caught on the bike and pretended not to speak any Thai and the just waved me through after a short while.

There are times that im treated worse.. but i must say all in all i think im treated pretty good here. With of course some problems but we all have those.

[StreetCowboy]

Sorry I might not have been clear : My question was "how to deal with racism" not "I am unhappy here please help"

aneliane,

Listen to Dr Mobi...

You are clearly unhappy, or you wouldn't have posted the way you did.

Nobody can tell you how to deal with racism, any more than we could tell someone how to deal with 'flying pink elephants' they see in the sky.

We have to go to the root cause of your perceived racialism if we are to deal with it.

Don't you see? you tell us about 'leuk kreungs' who are badly treated, which nobody has ever heard of before, as the opposite is usually the case; you tell us of friends who speak good Thai who also suffer from rudeness.

In everyone else's experience, this is all simply not possible, unless you are behaving in such a way as to cause it to happen. It seems to be all in your mind, and with respect, maybe you should spend your dog money on a good therapist.

Think well on this and the replies you have received on this thread. The answer is here - you have to find it.

Good luck,

Mobi

You might need to read back over her previous posts to see whether she is happy or not.

I can't comment on the treatment of luk kreung, but I can confirm experience of some of the 'racist' behaviour that she has commented upon. For me, it is water off a duck's back, because I am not trying to get by on THB 200 a day or whatever, I have no qualms about going down to Sizzler for a family meal, and if I can't get a hair cut at one of the local salons, I can go to Sukhumvit Road and get Subway sandwiches for the kids while I'm there. Aneliane has chosen to eschew those options, but does not have a Thai wife / girlfriend to help her, and does not have the friendship that her patronage would engender if, like you or I, she was to squander thousands of baht down the town.

I think it is worth making the effort to empathise with our fellows when they put forward their angst, if only to remind ourselves why we don't do what they have done. There is little point in criticising our fellows for having different values to ourselves. "Why don't you just go home after four or five pints?". We have to accept that some people's lives are very different, and the worlds in which they live are very different, even if they live next door. There;s no point in arguing about which world is which.

SC

Thank you for summing up my situation in such accurate manner.

And thank you for your support

There doesn't seem many on this forum willing to stand up for people like you, or fat, bald, sweaty sex tourists. Now I'm losing my hair, I need all the friends I can get....

[aneliane]

I am since 10 years in Bangkok, on different places.

I don't speak Thai.

I have always been treated friendly.....Sure maybe there were some idiots somewhere. But less than when I was in Vienna.

Only thing I have seen is a positive racism. When I send my guy in the office with a broken HD to the shop, the shop tells him he is doing something wrong. If I go there they believe that I am smart enough and replace it.

Yup I was thinking exactly like you when I was living like a farang.

People were actually treating me better than Thais most of the time.

I recall finding Thai most lovely and friendly people I have encountered

Try living "on the cheap" for a year, you will have a whole different perspective

If you fit into your alloted place in society, you will find life pleasant and easy.

If you try to make a new place for yourself, or take someone else's place, it will always be a struggle.

You might find that struggle tiresome.

SC

Easy does not satisfies me.

What I think is "right" does.

I don't complain

I don't moan

Sorry if some of you think I am unhappy, thats not what I wanted to come accross like

I just wanted to know if some of you have experienced the same things

I had some people telling me they did.

More saying they never had that experience, but it does not makes me a nutcase or delusional.

I just have a different life from you, and that's my choice, even if it is harder sometimes.

Anyhow thank you for your answers all of you and good night !

Edited March 28, 2012 by aneliane

[GentlemanJim]

Please don't judge me

I won't judge you, if you don't ignore me and my efforts (and others). You have almost started an agony Aunt thread, so each response to you deserves an answer.

[StreetCowboy]

Please don't judge me

I won't judge you, if you don't ignore me and my efforts (and others). You have almost started an agony Aunt thread, so each response to you deserves an answer.

Sadly (or fortunately, in my case) we rarely get what we deserve.

We can only be grateful for what we did get (or in my case, did not...)

SC

[jayjayjayjay]

No I wash only once a year to save water lol

Well, there's your answer . . .

Seriously, it's hard to give you insights because it's not an experience I've come up against.

OK let's take another example, one of my student is english-thai, he's 16 and has to do military service for 3 years every weekend during hols.

He gets and I quote here "treated like shit because I'm farang". They call him all sort of names, his superiors make him sit in the sun for 2 hours, and all sort of craps like this, he gets it twice harder as a regular Thai.

There is an institutional racism in Thailand : from early school were your are taught Thai are a superior race and the other race therefore "inferior" to all governmental institutions: army, hospitals, public transports resent foreigners like any other country does.

If you are protected enough either by only going private (taxi/private hospitals ...) or if you have a gf dealing with institutional for you, you don't have to deal with it

If not, tough shit basically

"There is an institutional racism in Thailand : from early school were your are taught Thai are a superior race"

What absolute rubbish!

I don't believe you now. After reading this you are obviously a bitter bitter person with no friends who projects an unwelcome unhappy attitude towards those you meet. Your going to be hated in most places you go. Until you change yourself your never going to fit in anywhere... Simple

Well I came to Thailand thinking Thai people were very kind and smiled a lot.

I just report what I hear from other people and my own experience, sorry to break your bubble

You ain't broken no bubble of mine. I've been hear longer than you ten fold and that number will only increase because you need to leave. I would say if you can not get on with Thai's your in need of serious medication. Go back to your Utopia western country wherever it may be and get the attetion your head needs..

[aneliane]

Please don't judge me

I won't judge you, if you don't ignore me and my efforts (and others). You have almost started an agony Aunt thread, so each response to you deserves an answer.

I don't know what an agony Aunt thread is, sorry, but it sound like I'm just moaning and again I'm sorry if I came accross like this.

My idea was to get other people's experience, it got distracted, I got distracted as always here.

I should have known better.

If you don't have this experience, it's cool to say it, but not so cool to call me barmy imagining stuffs.

I know of other foreigners who do get it too.

Some just don't like to admit it, or are in denial, it kinda spoil the paradise image they try to convey about their lifestyle here. Most are just living in such protected lifestyle that they won't get it.

It's a shame I though it could be an interesting debate.

Duck's back is a recurring suggestion and I obviously use it a lot too, although not always an option and can be expensive to change hospital/restaurant/shop every time u encounter racism.

Being unable to understand insults is quite nice too, hence my thai learning a bit slow ??

[theblether]

Please don't judge me

I won't judge you, if you don't ignore me and my efforts (and others). You have almost started an agony Aunt thread, so each response to you deserves an answer.

I don't know what an agony Aunt thread is, sorry, but it sound like I'm just moaning and again I'm sorry if I came accross like this.

My idea was to get other people's experience, it got distracted, I got distracted as always here.

I should have known better.

If you don't have this experience, it's cool to say it, but not so cool to call me barmy imagining stuffs.

I know of other foreigners who do get it too.

Some just don't like to admit it, or are in denial, it kinda spoil the paradise image they try to convey about their lifestyle here. Most are just living in such protected lifestyle that they won't get it.

It's a shame I though it could be an interesting debate.

Duck's back is a recurring suggestion and I obviously use it a lot too, although not always an option and can be expensive to change hospital/restaurant/shop every time u encounter racism.

Being unable to understand insults is quite nice too, hence my thai learning a bit slow ??

You have had a lot of excellent advice on this thread, you seem to be unable to see it. I suggest you stand down for the night and read it again tomorrow. I refer in particular to Mobi, SC and Gentleman Jim, they have been supportive of you, amongst many others.

I think you can't see the wood from the trees.