Why Do Some People Moan About Phuket And Others Don'T?

[HongKongPhooey]

Some times threads go off topic and the inevitably off the rails, then get closed. This tends to happen just as they are getting interesting. If we have the appropriate thread title to begin with then we shouldn't have any problems with going off topic, then all we need to do is keep it grown up and petty squabble free, and the discussion should be able to continue until it's run it's course.

There was a couple of points on anther thread that made me want to start this one. I wanted to to reply to them but I had already promised not to go off topic again.

The first was this:

HKP, DO YOU DENY THIS NEGATIVE EXISTS? The question isn't whether it effects you or not. Or, what workaround or adaptations you have made to counteract it. Does it exist???? Simple question.

That's a bit like the old question, if a tree falls down and nobody's there etc etc. Do they exist for me? No they don't. Do I accept they exist for other people? Yes, of course I do. The question for me is, if these things do affect people, what do they do about it to minimise the negative effect it has, and if they were successful in minimising the affect then why do they get pleasure from constantly harping on about it on forums? Surely that can only mean they weren't successful in learning how to stop it bothering them, because if they were it would be forgotton and never mentioned.

If someone held their hands up and said 'I'm a moany old git and moaning makes me feel better' then I would say fair dos, at least their honest. It's this pathetic attempt to pretend that they are doing it for the good of the people that I find so highly tedious. Yes people can learn a lot from this forum and yes highlighting some of the negative aspects and scams can save people from making the same mistake. But if you people really think that when you are negative about Phuket in nearly every post you make on every single topic, and JJ, Tuk Tuks and scams makes its way in to every single thread you comment on, that you are doing it for the good of anyone but yourself, then you need a reality check. Just be honest and admit that you characters are that of people who like to moan & dwell on the negative.

The other was:

And all you do is pretend real issues dont exist by saying "Oh I dont go there.. I dont do that.. That wouldnt happen to me" etc.. Denial is alive and well.

That I'm afraid is not the definition of the word denial, and highlights exactly how some people get confused. If I don't go somewhere or don't do something to avoid potential issues, then that isn't denial is it. Denial is refusing to accept something exists. I know things exist but I'm not stupid enough to let them bother me or affect my life in any way. It helps you to believe that that is denial or your personal favourite of putting it down to rose coloured specs, when the truth is neither of those are true. The truth is, as hard as it is for some people to get their head around, that lots of people just love Phuket, warts and all. We live our lives in such a way that we don't allow the negative aspects to bother us. If you can't do the same then you need to move. Oh wait a minute.....

My answer to the second question in the sub title is simply this. Lots and Lots would have to change for me to not find Phuket suitable. I would need to feel That my family wasn't safe. As safe as they would be in my home country at the very least. Or I guess the easiest way to put it, is if I lost the ability to distance myself and my family from all the negative aspects of Phuket. If they started to affect our daily lives and there was nothing I could do to prevent it, then it would be time to leave.

We all know how it works. If we can't discuss a topic like this without spitting our dummies out it will get closed rapidly, so let's play nice.

[hkt83100]

TLTR (Too long to read)

[HongKongPhooey]

^ If that's the case then I don't think having discussions would be your strong point anyhow.

[Jimi007]

I kind of did this type of thread already:

Good luck with it!

[PattayaPhom]

I dont just think its Phuket, its Expats throughout Thailand...reasons I think people moan...cost of living has risen domestically and sharpley for those relying on income from certain currencies due to XE, because of this their lifestyle has had to change and this of course affects your general outlook. The obvious reason is another...GF, wife whatever has ripped them off. Thailand, especially tourist destinations have changed so much in the past 10 years....we now have to put up with traffic, noise, pollution and all the problems we faced in our home countries, so now the Thailand that attracted us to stay here has dissapeared forever....and then of course you just get the whinging idiots that would whinge no matter where they were................and the ones that dont, well they have found their karma, either that or havnt been here that long

[fiddlehead]

Reasons I would leave: civil war, oceans rising 30', the plague, or immigration laws making it impossible to stay.

Maybe if Thai women all started liking American fast food and each doubled their weight (like they have in the states).

[LivinLOS]

Had my morning cofee.. Get ready for long one..

That I'm afraid is not the definition of the word denial, and highlights exactly how some people get confused. If I don't go somewhere or don't do something to avoid potential issues, then that isn't denial is it. Denial is refusing to accept something exists.

And when these things are brought up you have a bias to deny they either exist or effect anyones lives.. Textbook denial.

Lots and Lots would have to change for me to not find Phuket suitable. I would need to feel That my family wasn't safe. As safe as they would be in my home country at the very least. Or I guess the easiest way to put it, is if I lost the ability to distance myself and my family from all the negative aspects of Phuket. If they started to affect our daily lives and there was nothing I could do to prevent it, then it would be time to leave.

That was a large part of it, we had our 3rd robbery, 2nd actual break in. But this time my wife of the time was upstairs asleep in bed. She phoned me but I didnt hear the phone. When I returned home she was in a blind panic. After that she simply hated to be alone at home, if I went out she was in real fear, locked in the house, behind multiple locked doors, locked in the bedroom. Her statements were along the lines of if someone breaks in they would rather kill a Thai lady occupant than leave a witness. So it got to the point of any time I left the house after dark I felt like I was leaving her to remain terrified until I came home, which kind of puts a downer on your lads night out if you think your partner is actually suffering. I tried covering the house in stalag 14 auto spot lights and stuff, but it was her fear, which after the multiple break ins I couldnt say wasnt real, so hard to stop someone being scared. To be honest, me I couldnt give a dam_n, I wouldnt have even fitted the lights, when they break in what do they take ?? A camera ?? a phone or two ?? The TV's too big to carry.. Its just loose stuff. I would rather lose the stuff and not care.. But the fear not the actual loss was her problem.

I can take the development. I dont think of it as a positive the way it is going now, but along with some development came better stores, better internet, better services. The overload of billboards and population was to me a net negative but it wasnt the key thing. Maybe in 3 - 5 years it will be, it sure is for many of my expat mates who left before me, its what people who visit back remark on but I could just about deal with it. For me the best times was somewhere after the turn of millennium and through to the tsunami period. Rawai / Nai Harn was still a village area, but we had west coast connecting roads, etc etc..

But related to the growth was the attitude of the locals, and by local I mean anyone Thai whether they had arrived 1 week ago or not. The fact they had come to Phuket for its economic prospects, and then got onto a hamster wheel of revolving higher costs of living, and massive business costs to pay for licenses and pitches in the corrupt system, so working hard and not perhaps finding the streets paved with gold puts them under stress and pressure. I find Thais dont handle stress that well, they are at their best and show the best side of Thai personality when sabai sabai, mai pen rai, relaxed. When pressured they can be looking to vent to release that bottled pressure and theres a huge tone of anti farang attitudes which was getting strong and stronger (seeing some of the farang behavior no wonder why). There is a certain segment of the population that is just waiting for any chance to tell you you cant park there, oi you farang move, to exert any tiny power they may have. Look at the kickings dished out by groups of Thai males at the slightest provocation.. I dont react well when not treated politely and with some basic respect (how I treat others), being shouted or barked at doesnt fly with me in any country or language. Look me in the eye, ask me nicely and I am very easy going, push me and your going to get pushed back.

That being pushed around, ordered about, jumped on.. Combined with the fact that the economic migrants chasing the streets paved with gold will try by fair means or foul to get to your cash, put me too much on the defensive. Made it too hard to be relaxed and off guard with the locals, so no longer laughing and joking with them. I like life to be a series of positive interactions, I get a kick out of laughing and joking with the people I meet, the craic (even non verbal) as the Irish in me would say. It was getting harder and harder to have that in my life on Phuket.

The reason I guess I am / was vocal about these negatives is, they are getting far stronger, and the trend is accelerating. There really wasnt this anti farang vibe (nothing like this same level) at the end of the 90s (see the Jake Needham interview recently) and even tho I had my own rose tinted specs at that time, you needed far less of a tint. Services were worse but people were better, crime was better, and the rip offs were lower. You didnt have every inch of the island claimed by some clique or group, while for sure rough justice still applied the gang mentality and protectionism had not spread into every trade and group. I understand why, everyone is fighting so hard for their tiny slice, it makes them hard, it makes them downtrodden in the bribes they must pay to those with power, so who do they see to lash out on? the farang, who they perceive as probably having no power (and usually are right). Its not a mystery, its not hard to see why it happens, but its impossible to deny that it is happening.

I also understand if you havent lived in other parts of Thailand (or only Pattaya) or only been here post tsunami, why its less of an issue, this is what you arrived too, its seen as normal. But it really wasnt like that, not to the same level, and in other parts of Thailand outside of where tourism is the sole economic driver it still isnt. People are decent, they wai you, farangs still have a small level of built in kudos and respect (we must have some wealth is part of the driver) and get a fair shake at establishing a relationship of equals. Young Thais are wanting to practive thier limited english and you get those great sh smiles as they try. To see a place you loved and lived gradually become less friendly, higher crime, more concreted over, its saddening. Its depressing. For a long time you hope it will reverse course, you hope the changes are reversible, you deny the trend. You try to minimize those issues, or wall yourself off from them but in the end you cant wall yourself for the society around you.

So lots of related issues. A higher crime and more predatory environment making it far harder to relax and relate to the locals. Not relating to the locals making it harder to integrate and be accepted. In the end if your really going to make a life here, it was important to me to integrate more, to become more accepted, to be part of the society not just an economic driver to someone elses society. Thats becoming harder and harder to do on Phuket.

Edited March 29, 2012 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

Todays news.. A couple of bombs thrown between competing drug dealers in a residential area. One wanted guy making a break for it after being injured in the attempted murder while bleeding, etc etc etc..

But hey, they are not your neighbors.. This kind of thing happens everywhere.. drug dealer bombings are nothing to worry about.. Its all good.. Etc.

[Peterocket]

Todays news.. A couple of bombs thrown between competing drug dealers in a residential area. One wanted guy making a break for it after being injured in the attempted murder while bleeding, etc etc etc..

But hey, they are not your neighbors.. This kind of thing happens everywhere.. drug dealer bombings are nothing to worry about.. Its all good.. Etc.

Read todays London, Atlanta, Sydney or New York news....dancer shot dead...disabled woman locked up...string of shootings and drugs labs....3 year old child shot dead....this is just todays news!

It happens every where like you said. For some people it's best they live like mowgli from the jungle book, that way they wont have the dangers involved with crossing the road etc.

[stevenl]

But hey, they are not your neighbors.. This kind of thing happens everywhere.. drug dealer bombings are nothing to worry about.. Its all good.. Etc.

You and NKM are completely missing the point others are making here.

And since it has been explained many, many times already but you don't understand, don't want to understand or don't bother to read I won't try to explain it yet another time.

[LivinLOS]

Read todays London, Atlanta, Sydney or New York news....

Yes inner city urban places of many millions of people.. Or tropical island with a fraction of that.

[F1fanatic]

I think its (generally) only those whose rose tinted spectacles have just worn off that "moan about everything".

Once we get beyond that stage (if we're still here), we accept the good and the bad - albeit posting about things that seriously annoy us !

I suspect you're taking every negative comment as a whinge by someone who should just "move on", rather than understanding that a negative comment about something does not necessarily equate to 'I hate everything about living here'.

[LivinLOS]

But hey, they are not your neighbors.. This kind of thing happens everywhere.. drug dealer bombings are nothing to worry about.. Its all good.. Etc.

You and NKM are completely missing the point others are making here.

And since it has been explained many, many times already but you don't understand, don't want to understand or don't bother to read I won't try to explain it yet another time.

But this is a thread for exactly that purpose.. So pretty pointless post.

And full disclosure.. I DONT have a vested business interest in being positive and talking down the problems.

[LivinLOS]

I suspect you're taking every negative comment as a whinge by someone who should just "move on", rather than understanding that a negative comment about something does not necessarily equate to 'I hate everything about living here'.

Thank you.. Precisely..

[stevenl]

And full disclosure.. I DONT have a vested business interest in being positive and talking down the problems.

Here we go again. Accusing others of not being honest in their opinions because they don't agree with you. Since you're right it must be something else, let me think 'ah, he has a vested interest so that's why he is telling lies'.

Believe it or not, but some people simply don't agree with you and hold a different view of life, people, phuket, etc.

Edited March 29, 2012 by stevenl

[LivinLOS]

Believe it or not, but some people simply don't agree with you and hold a different view of life, people, phuket, etc.

Sure but when your livelihood depends on that, its sure shapes a mindset, consciously or not.

[stevenl]

Believe it or not, but some people simply don't agree with you and hold a different view of life, people, phuket, etc.

Sure but when your livelihood depends on that, its sure shapes a mindset, consciously or not.

Not necessarily, but maybe for you. You measure my corn by your bushel.

[Peterocket]

Read todays London, Atlanta, Sydney or New York news....

Yes inner city urban places of many millions of people.. Or tropical island with a fraction of that.

PHUKET could have a population of more than one million unregistered Thais and Burmese - making its total resident population more than 1.3 million, plus 5.3 million tourists per year, Phuket Governor Tri Augkaradacha said today.

Quite a big fraction I would say.

[LivinginKata]

2 posts speculating about another board member .... removed

[NamKangMan]

I suspect you're taking every negative comment as a whinge by someone who should just "move on", rather than understanding that a negative comment about something does not necessarily equate to 'I hate everything about living here'.

Thank you.. Precisely..

I second that.

[Peterocket]

Consistently moaning in nearly every thread about everything from motorbikes, scams, road surfaces, schools, the local people, the public transport, corruption etc does equate to 'I hate everything about living here'.

Why not run us through a list of all the things you "love" about Phuket so people don't get the wrong idea from you haters eh?

[NamKangMan]

Starting a thread "moaning" about how others "moan" is really quite funny. :)

Seriously, HKP, I will make it a easy as I can for you.

If I asked you, "HKP, would you buy into timeshare here?" If you answered, "No way" and then gave a long list of your reasons for why you wouldn't, are those reasons "moaning" or "Phuket bashing" or are they just your reasons for and/or opinions for not buying into timeshare here????

If someone who DID buy into timeshare disagreed with you, and called you "negative" and that you had a "limited view" or you were a "moaner" or a "Phuket basher" and that you should move away from Phuket because the island is obviously not making you happy, what would you think of a post like that???? What would you then think about a post like that if you found it it come from someone who sold timeshare on Phuket????

I'll say something positive, but basic. "I love the Thai food on Phuket, but I don't like it too spicey." You just jump onto the "I don't like it too spicey" and then lable me a moaner or Phuket basher. What about the "I like the Thai food on Phuket" part of my post????

The thread, that lead to this thread, I said words to the effect, "Education at an ACCREDITED International School here would be fine, if you can afford it, but there are no career opportunities here when the 50/50 kids leave school." I then went on to give my reasons for my opinion. You then "went off" at the down side for you in my post and never mentioned the positive side for you in my post.

In your OP, on this thread, you said you would have more respect for people who put their hand up and admit they are a "moany old git." I will be perfectly honest and state, as I have done many times before, the lack of proper, affordable public transport here, really gives me the sh*ts. I have adapted, and have my workarounds, but it still gives me the sh*ts because it's corruption and collusion that is directly restricting my freedom of movement on the island, and "pushing" many people onto motorbikes which in turn is causing many deaths and injury. Why can't I say that? Is that "Phuket bashing" or critisizing the certain influential people that make a lot of money out of the current system, despite the death and pain and suffering they are causing? I know that critisism isn't going to change anything. It's been like it for years, and it will not change. Such is the power of a small minority here. It's just sad, and sometimes makes me angry, especially when I read about another young tourist killed on a motorbike who only wanted to go and see the other beaches along the coast and not have to pay thousands of baht for a few kilometres.

I've stated before, a "negative" to living on Phuket is the cost of wine. A $7 bottle of wine in my country is 980 baht here. Wine is taxed heavily here. Have I left because of it - no, but it is a negative for me about living here, even though I have adapted and have my workarounds for it.

Remember, the above are just examples, not an attempt to have members post about tuk-tuks and the high taxes on wine here. Please, no posts about these issues - they were just examples to get my point across. This thread is not about those issues here.

The title of your thread made me think, imagine if the Thai Governemnt closed the loopholes that allowed farang "ownership" of property here. There would be thousands of people "moaning" about it, but not me, because I do not have property here.

Imagine if the Thai Government said there would be no more work permits for farang dive instuctors, Thai's can do this job now. There's a few people on this forum that would not be happy and may have a "moan" about it, but not me, I'm not a dive instructor.

Imagine if the Thai Goverment changed visa laws and did not offer a certain class of visa that many are living here on. There would be people having a "moan" about that for sure, but perhaps not me, because I am not in that class of visa.

These are all hypotheticals, but what I am getting at is it's human nature to not care about your fellow man who has a problem, because the problem does not effect yourself. It's just a sad fact of the world today. It's also common practice in Thailand to laugh at others who have come undone here. All I can say is, "There but for the grace of God go I."

You will never hear me make a ridiculous comment like, "Phuket is sh*t." You WILL hear me make a comment to the effect of, "Phuket is sh*t for public transport" and then I will give reasons for my comment. Eg. 200 baht minimum journey, changing the price on the drunk passenger at the arrival destination etc etc. Am I not entitled to make such a comment? Are you not entitled to either agree, or disagree with it, and state your reasons?

If a newby posted, "I'm coming to Phuket for a holiday and would like to rent a jet-ski. Can anyone give me some advice?" What would your advice be? Would some of it be advising them not to? If so, are you "Phuket bashing" or advising someone of the risks involved? Would you even bother posting some advice at all?

I do like living here, however, I do agree with many of the points LivinLOS has made. The "vibe" has changed here from the way I remember it. Certainly the amount of construction has increased dramatically. The demographics of tourists here has changed as well, which leads me to another point. I like a good curry. With all the Indian tourists coming now, there will be some great Indian restaurants or curry houses opening up. That's great for me, no complaints - just a positive for me. However, if you owned a bar here, for example, and Indians are not big drinkers, you may not be so happy with the TAT targeting the Indian market and may have a "moan" about it. Such is the duplicity of life. One person's negative can be another person's positive, and one person's positive can be another person's negative. It will make some smile, while it will make others sad.

When you look at this website's forums, the majority of threads are started as a "request for information." Like I've said before, it will attract posts from those who are disgruntled after been screwed over by a bar girl to those who have just moved here and hooked up with a bar girl and think they are in heaven - and then everyone in between. Try not to take it personally.

[cdmtdm]

i think the lack of a real police service is beginning to worry people who have been directly affected by a serious crime , if you take one step back, as i have done and look at life on the island as a whole ... it has some magical places , beaches , markets , dining , the weather , sailing etc etc ... a great lifestyle ... you tend not to think about the very dangerous situation that is around us everyday and that is a police force that is controlled by the mafia ... laugh if you like !!! but when you are finished do some research and then perhaps you will realize , the phuket police have no power , no say and no desire to enforce the law , if you are Thai and you want to be a cop , 350k will get you into the force in no time flat .... regardless of education or training your in.... same with the army ..happened in the family ... young man called up for army duties , does 3months , signs over his pittance of salary to the man in charge ..free to go and do what he wants ..currently working in Patong .... so what will happen when the island has 1.5mill people or 2 mill ? Phuket has become IMO a lawless society , controlled by a dozen well to do families... so for me time to move away to the bush and look from a distance as i fear for the future of this paradise lost ......

[NamKangMan]

Consistently moaning in nearly every thread about everything from motorbikes, scams, road surfaces, schools, the local people, the public transport, corruption etc does equate to 'I hate everything about living here'.

Why not run us through a list of all the things you "love" about Phuket so people don't get the wrong idea from you haters eh?

I gather your post was aimed at me so, I like Phuket for its sun, the sea, the sand, the climate, its culturally diverse tourism, it's afforability, its great variety of restaurants/cuisines, has great seasfood, it's well serviced by airlines, has many activities, surrounded by smaller islands for day trips, has great nightlife, has reasonably good amenities such as fast internet, electricity, shopping centres etc, at this stage - is reasonably safe from violence, its a Buddhist nation, offers a range of sports, you have the ability to watch on TV a range of sports here , it has many festivals/events, it's wide range of accommodation, it's strange - yet workable visa laws. I'm sure I can think of many more, these were just off the top of my head.

For me, the good still outweighs the bad, and while that is still the case, I will continue to live here, but I know a few guys who have already moved away, and they have told me why. Their reasons were pretty much along the lines of LivinLOS's post. I agree with them, but it hasn't "got on top of me yet" but I can see the direction the island is going in and it might "get the better of me one day" and I will leave. I already have a Plan B destination and have no business, property or family ties here, so I am free to leave if/when that day comes.

It's only fair that I can now ask you "rose tinters" a question. Name some good things that have been done for tourists and expats here in recent times?

Edited March 29, 2012 by NamKangMan

[Peterocket]

Consistently moaning in nearly every thread about everything from motorbikes, scams, road surfaces, schools, the local people, the public transport, corruption etc does equate to 'I hate everything about living here'.

Why not run us through a list of all the things you "love" about Phuket so people don't get the wrong idea from you haters eh?

I gather your post was aimed at me so, I like Phuket for its sun, the sea, the sand, the climate, its culturally diverse tourism, it's afforability, its great variety of restaurants/cuisines, has great seasfood, it's well serviced by airlines, has many activities, surrounded by smaller islands for day trips, has great nightlife, has reasonably good amenities such as fast internet, electricity, shopping centres etc, at this stage - is reasonably safe from violence, its a Buddhist nation, offers a range of sports, you have the ability to watch on TV a range of sports here , it has many festivals/events, it's wide range of accommodation, it's strange - yet workable visa laws. I'm sure I can think of many more, these were just off the top of my head.

For me, the good still outweighs the bad, and while that is still the case, I will continue to live here, but I know a few guys who have already moved away, and they have told me why. Their reasons were pretty much along the lines of LivinLOS's post. I agree with them, but it hasn't "got on top of me yet" but I can see the direction the island is going in and it might "get the better of me one day" and I will leave. I already have a Plan B destination and have no business, property or family ties here, so I am free to leave if/when that day comes.

It's only fair that I can now ask you "rose tinters" a question. Name some good things that have been done for tourists and expats here in recent times?

There are too many things to list to be honest. I could name a load just done by the Or-Bor-Jor in the Bangtao-Surin-Chern Thalay area alone.

On a Phuket wide scale off the top of my head to name a few---Fiber Optic internet, 3G phone signals, the palm trees planted on the Thepkassatri, a planned 10bn baht rail link, Aphrodite and Siam nirimit shows opening, the new underpass for the Thepkassatri, new police cars, new chalong pier, new Sarassin bridge, new international schools and nurseries, an increase of routes from the airport and massive expansion plans etc etc

It was just reported that Phuket has had 67 projects approved worth about 50bn baht...I'm sure a few baht of that will benefit the moaners...then again maybe not.

[NamKangMan]

Consistently moaning in nearly every thread about everything from motorbikes, scams, road surfaces, schools, the local people, the public transport, corruption etc does equate to 'I hate everything about living here'.

Why not run us through a list of all the things you "love" about Phuket so people don't get the wrong idea from you haters eh?

I gather your post was aimed at me so, I like Phuket for its sun, the sea, the sand, the climate, its culturally diverse tourism, it's afforability, its great variety of restaurants/cuisines, has great seasfood, it's well serviced by airlines, has many activities, surrounded by smaller islands for day trips, has great nightlife, has reasonably good amenities such as fast internet, electricity, shopping centres etc, at this stage - is reasonably safe from violence, its a Buddhist nation, offers a range of sports, you have the ability to watch on TV a range of sports here , it has many festivals/events, it's wide range of accommodation, it's strange - yet workable visa laws. I'm sure I can think of many more, these were just off the top of my head.

For me, the good still outweighs the bad, and while that is still the case, I will continue to live here, but I know a few guys who have already moved away, and they have told me why. Their reasons were pretty much along the lines of LivinLOS's post. I agree with them, but it hasn't "got on top of me yet" but I can see the direction the island is going in and it might "get the better of me one day" and I will leave. I already have a Plan B destination and have no business, property or family ties here, so I am free to leave if/when that day comes.

It's only fair that I can now ask you "rose tinters" a question. Name some good things that have been done for tourists and expats here in recent times?

There are too many things to list to be honest. I could name a load just done by the Or-Bor-Jor in the Bangtao-Surin-Chern Thalay area alone.

On a Phuket wide scale off the top of my head to name a few---Fiber Optic internet, 3G phone signals, the palm trees planted on the Thepkassatri, a planned 10bn baht rail link, Aphrodite and Siam nirimit shows opening, the new underpass for the Thepkassatri, new police cars, new chalong pier, new Sarassin bridge, new international schools and nurseries, an increase of routes from the airport and massive expansion plans etc etc

It was just reported that Phuket has had 67 projects approved worth about 50bn baht...I'm sure a few baht of that will benefit the moaners...then again maybe not.

I'll ask again by saying, "have been done" not are "planned" or "budgeted for" in future projects. I agree with some of the things you have mentioned. They have been done. What benefit they have to the wider expat community and the tourist is questionable. Having said that, I think the "Welcome to Patong" sign was a great project. :) :) Seriously, I hope I will never need the services of the new police cars.

Edited March 29, 2012 by NamKangMan

[petercallen]

It seems to me a lot of people have not visited there home country for

a very long time and do not know how things have changed there and

the inflation in those countries.and crime rates etc etc.

I am always happy to return to Phuket and Thailand after visiting other

countries, and no i do not wear rose coloured glasses, i have seen whats

happening in other countries

[NamKangMan]

It seems to me a lot of people have not visited there home country for

a very long time and do not know how things have changed there and

the inflation in those countries.and crime rates etc etc.

I am always happy to return to Phuket and Thailand after visiting other

countries, and no i do not wear rose coloured glasses, i have seen whats

happening in other countries

I agree, but I have a question, "Is Phuket heading in the same direction?" If it is, when will it catch up and be the same as the "other countries" and will you leave the island if/when that day comes?

Also, if that day comes, and you leave, and post your reasons why you are leaving, how would you feel about being called a "moaner" or "Phuket basher?"

Edited March 29, 2012 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

"Wellington" has given me a laugh for the day with his new thread - "Another money making trick at Villa" - and you think I'm negative and should leave Phuket. :) :)

[HongKongPhooey]

And when these things are brought up you have a bias to deny they either exist or effect anyones lives.. Textbook denial.

I had a feeling that was going to be really painful reading but it was actually a well thought out post that made a lot of sense.

However, you let yourself down with the very first line quoted above. It's that way of thinking that I find so annoying and unintelligent. In my OP I said as clear as day 'Do they exist for me? No they don't. Do I accept they exist for other people? Yes, of course I do.' Yet in your very first response you say 'you have a bias to deny they either exist or effect anyones lives.'

Read those two statements one after the other and you will see they are a complete contradiction. This is the area that I find it so frustrating that an intelligent person just can't get their head around the difference. I read your post and I can totally accept that those issues were REAL. I totally believe that they DID affect you and totally understand why you wanted to leave. So why can't you do me the courtesy of believing me and all the others when we say we DON'T have those same issues? Why do you insist on saying that the only reason we don't have these problems is because we are in denial and wear rose tinted specs. When you say that it completely diminishes any credibility your argument may have had.

The vast majority of people haven't been burgled, haven't had fights with tuk tuk drivers (as I know you have had plenty) and they don't have partners that have a new found fear of being home alone. Most people do manage to have good relations with some Thai people, don't need or go near Tuk Tuks, don't get ripped off or scammed, and live a very normal, peaceful life. Why do you refuse point blank to except this could be the case. To me it really hurts your argument and makes your character seem flawed that you would want to try and drag people down to have the same problems you have. It seems like the classic way some people make themselves feel better about their own lives.

I also take my hat off to you as it seems you are partly at least accepting that it was disappointment and frustration that lead to most of your negative posts. How else could you explain that they stopped the second you moved somewhere you were happier. Again, if people would just admit they make these posts for those reasons and not deny that their unhappiness, disappointment, and resentment plays the main role.

You can't possibly continue to accuse me of being bias or in denial after what I have just said so please try to address the points I have made.