Learning English Language In Thailand: Hype Or Necessity?

[nurofiend]

screw english, i'm learning mandarin

Very intelligent and perceoptive. And everyone in China is learning.............. English!

i already know that one though...

[Beetlejuice]

I think the need to speak and understand English is simple. English is but a tool to

make you a global person, both in business and knowledge. It broadens opportunities

in a large way. If you have a narrow perspective of your future and a rich dad you

don't need to learn English. There are many rural schools outside of Bangkok where

the school doesn't take English seriously. I am not sure how set the curriculum is, so

that there is a flow from one grade to the next. When I taught in Bangkok a few years

ago there wasn't much input into what was taught in the current year from what was taught

the previous year. What was being taught was not orientated to who was being taught>

Absolutely spot on.

If Thais want to increase their prospects of being able to work abroad or careers within the International community, than they need to learn English language or at least another mainstream language in order to extend the employment opportunities open to them.

It`s that simple.

[jerrysteve]

The minister of education in this country needs to set up a pilot program with the Embassy of England, The American Embassy, The Australian Embassy, The Embassy of Canada, and the Embassy of Singapore to put children in the homes of English speaking parents who have children whos native language is English.

The pilot progam would allow native Thai children a dramatic learning experience in speaking English. Children do infact learn quicker in an environment where there are other children of a similar age group.

That would help to reach to very important goals. 1. Give children a hands of approach to speaking english and the ability to pick up the nuances

of the language, and help to reduce the amount of prejudice between two culltures.

Based on language research, the learning curve to learn another language is from the time a baby is in the womb until age 7. After the age of 7, the learning curve begins to drop dramatically.Think of bilingual children who ability to speak 2 or several different languages comes from parents who speak 2 or more languages in the home.

The other crucial point is that children in such a pilot program would have the opportunity to speak English everyday and not limited to a 1 hour classroom. After class now, children go back to their native Thai language and forget about the rest. Also, it would help to o reduce the natural shyness

they have with trying to speak English outside the classroom to begin with.

Thailands approach to learning English or another foreign language is completly butt backwards.

We all learn to speak our natisve language in the Home where ALL native languages are spoken.

We certainly do not learn to read or write first do we. Wle Learn To Speak First..What could possibily be more logical or natural than that. Who would pay for this you might ask. Well that would be a joint financial effort on the part of the Embassies involved and the Thai Ministry of Education.

[Ijustwannateach]

This raise an interesting question, how come Thai is so hard to learn for English speakers? Is it caused by the writing/reading system or is it actually the language itself that I personally consider more simple than English. And how come it seemes that Thai's have easier to learn English!

I studied french from schratch and came to a higher level in 1 month than I have done with Thai in 6 months, and I hear a lot of similar comments.

I beleive that we need a global way of communicate and why invent the wheel again? We have a language and a sign system used all over the world and most important used by the new global media like facebook and equals.

There is some evidence that a genetic inheritance may greatly improve your ability to hear tonal languages (such as Thai) and people from European countries haven't had the inheritance of that material as reinforced as those who speak tonal languages as a mother tongue. That's one proposal, anyway.

[Sing_Sling]

This raise an interesting question, how come Thai is so hard to learn for English speakers? Is it caused by the writing/reading system or is it actually the language itself that I personally consider more simple than English. And how come it seemes that Thai's have easier to learn English!

I studied french from schratch and came to a higher level in 1 month than I have done with Thai in 6 months, and I hear a lot of similar comments.

I beleive that we need a global way of communicate and why invent the wheel again? We have a language and a sign system used all over the world and most important used by the new global media like facebook and equals.

There is some evidence that a genetic inheritance may greatly improve your ability to hear tonal languages (such as Thai) and people from European countries haven't had the inheritance of that material as reinforced as those who speak tonal languages as a mother tongue. That's one proposal, anyway.

You're still hammering away at this nonsense? Genetic inheritance? You quoted one study that set up a hypothesis, nothing more. No proof . . . NO EVIDENCE. Why do you feel the need to perpetuate this misconception?

The minister of education in this country needs to set up a pilot program with the Embassy of England, The American Embassy, The Australian Embassy, The Embassy of Canada, and the Embassy of Singapore to put children in the homes of English speaking parents who have children whos native language is English.

The pilot progam would allow native Thai children a dramatic learning experience in speaking English. Children do infact learn quicker in an environment where there are other children of a similar age group.

That would help to reach to very important goals. 1. Give children a hands of approach to speaking english and the ability to pick up the nuances

of the language, and help to reduce the amount of prejudice between two culltures.

Based on language research, the learning curve to learn another language is from the time a baby is in the womb until age 7. After the age of 7, the learning curve begins to drop dramatically.Think of bilingual children who ability to speak 2 or several different languages comes from parents who speak 2 or more languages in the home.

The other crucial point is that children in such a pilot program would have the opportunity to speak English everyday and not limited to a 1 hour classroom. After class now, children go back to their native Thai language and forget about the rest. Also, it would help to o reduce the natural shyness

they have with trying to speak English outside the classroom to begin with.

Thailands approach to learning English or another foreign language is completly butt backwards.

We all learn to speak our natisve language in the Home where ALL native languages are spoken.

We certainly do not learn to read or write first do we. Wle Learn To Speak First..What could possibily be more logical or natural than that. Who would pay for this you might ask. Well that would be a joint financial effort on the part of the Embassies involved and the Thai Ministry of Education.

Aside from the fact that there is no English embassy you make some very good points. I believe there are already organisations that do similar things, like the Goethe Institut, the Alliance Francaise etc...

I remember spending several months in France as an exchange student when I was younger - learned better French then than at school . . . also because no-one spoke English.

[Thai at Heart]

Watching my two bilingual kids going through both languages, it is patently obvious that the grammatical structure of the two languages is like oil and water when written (aside from the obvious alphabet issues). Then add in the way in which languages are taught, and it is obvious that the way Thai is taught relies an awful lot on rote learning with very little emphasis on creative writing, reading or other mind opening escapades. It really is absorption through repetition, which I don't know is the best or worst way if experience has shown that this is the only way it can be learnt.

Thus, I wonder if it is a possibility that the way in which Thai is being taught that makes it difficult to add a second language into the mix. I don't know how other Asian/tonal languages are taught but it seems to me that learning Chinese doesn't seem to be that much of an obstacle to learning other languages (just look at Singapore for example) so is it a problem peculiar to the Thai language, or is it the overall quality of teaching that is the issue?

I once heard a teacher relate to me that the average level of English proficiency of a 7 year old in the Uk is equivalent to a nine or 10 year old learning Thai as a first language because the language is that hard to learn. That maybe a copout, but it seems to me that an inordinate amount of time is set aside in the curriculum for the basic learning of Thai in comparison with my memory of study in the UK vis a vis English language study. Maybe it is time for the long awaited reform of the Thai language because if it takes up a disproportionate amount of time in the curriculum it must be stealing time from other subjects.

As I said earlier, this isn't necessarily about producing students with absolutely flawless English, it is about being able to communicate, read basic articles and produce something intelligible in an email or essay. There is no getting around the fact that English is a vital language in so many lines of study and research be it engineering, medicine, electronics or daily business life. I have a niece who is studying vetinary science, and nearly all of her text books and research papers are written in English. She has had to brush up her English whilst studying (even though they had a minimum score to get on the course) but she wishes of course she had spent more time studying English.

I notice in the other paper that Macbeth has been banned because it may cause instability in the country. Ironically, it was funded by the culture ministry as a Thai production. So back to soap operas it is for the people. My heart sighs for the stupidity I see in the country sometimes.

[scorecard]

screw english, i'm learning mandarin

Very intelligent and perceoptive. And everyone in China is learning.............. English!

i already know that one though...

Worth sharing .... about 4 or 5 years ago Time magazine did a big monthly issue based mostly on China.

I'm not quick to believe the accuracy of surveys and statistics however I assume that Time would be fairly careful in any statistics that they include in their publication.

To the point - Time quoted that the total number of Chinese people currently learning to speak English (primary, secondary schools, universities, governmet and private language institutes) was greater than the total number of people, in the rest of the world who currently speak English.

I worked on numerous projects in China over nearly two decades and I did notice the change in English conversation ability, but more especially in the bigger citties (Beijing, Shanghai and the new industiral cities of Shenzen, Quangjo, and more). A simple example, you walk into a Starbucks or similar, lots of new modern restaurants etc., 90% of the staff have no hesitation to engage in a detailed English conversation.

Another simple example - There's a chain of Thai restaurants in many Chinese cities (owned by Chinese). It's called 'Simply Thai', all of their staff speak excellent English and can easily engage in detailed discussion about wines, food, and more.

Edited April 4, 2012 by scorecard

[scorecard]

I had to snicker a little reading the position of the writer. He is a Fulbright fellow, yet he has been relegated to working with Assumption University- well known among foreign educators in Bangkok as one of the stingiest employers, with some of the dullest students (on average with many exceptions I'm sure). No wonder he's frustrated about the state of education.

Seriously, the problem is economics. They either can't or don't want to be able to afford more 'usual' foreign language teachers, and they take advantage of their reputation as a 'vacationland' to pay peanuts to those willing to accept them (or the retired, who do it for beer money and the visa).

There are OTHER alternatives here for real teachers and educators, but they are difficult to find and not always extremely transparent. And they usually don't help the normal, average people who are presumably more in need of support in learning English.

English *is* an economic issue- if for no other reason, the need to communicate within the regional sphere among people who don't have another common language. However, I don't see Thailand as being willing to make the painful decision to open itself up entirely to the kind of competition which will expose its relative weaknesses in order to toughen up. Too much loss of face.

Another point - Students at assumption are taught in English, The vast majority have strong listening and comprehension skills for English language but they are not required to speak English.

I work with two of their graduates, they are perfect examples, they totally understand everything they hear in English but both of they cannot repsond at all in English.

All a bit silly.

[Thai at Heart]

I had to snicker a little reading the position of the writer. He is a Fulbright fellow, yet he has been relegated to working with Assumption University- well known among foreign educators in Bangkok as one of the stingiest employers, with some of the dullest students (on average with many exceptions I'm sure). No wonder he's frustrated about the state of education.

Seriously, the problem is economics. They either can't or don't want to be able to afford more 'usual' foreign language teachers, and they take advantage of their reputation as a 'vacationland' to pay peanuts to those willing to accept them (or the retired, who do it for beer money and the visa).

There are OTHER alternatives here for real teachers and educators, but they are difficult to find and not always extremely transparent. And they usually don't help the normal, average people who are presumably more in need of support in learning English.

English *is* an economic issue- if for no other reason, the need to communicate within the regional sphere among people who don't have another common language. However, I don't see Thailand as being willing to make the painful decision to open itself up entirely to the kind of competition which will expose its relative weaknesses in order to toughen up. Too much loss of face.

Another point - Students at assumption are taught in English, The vast majority have strong listening and comprehension skills for English language but they are not required to speak English.

I work with two of their graduates, they are perfect examples, they totally understand everything they hear in English but both of they cannot repsond at all in English.

All a bit silly.

I have had this issue related to me 1000 times, and it is astonishing that it seems impossible for the Thai curriculum to set up a system of speaking English for 20 minutes a day during the school day.

[scorecard]

The minister of education in this country needs to set up a pilot program with the Embassy of England, The American Embassy, The Australian Embassy, The Embassy of Canada, and the Embassy of Singapore to put children in the homes of English speaking parents who have children whos native language is English.

The pilot progam would allow native Thai children a dramatic learning experience in speaking English. Children do infact learn quicker in an environment where there are other children of a similar age group.

That would help to reach to very important goals. 1. Give children a hands of approach to speaking english and the ability to pick up the nuances

of the language, and help to reduce the amount of prejudice between two culltures.

Based on language research, the learning curve to learn another language is from the time a baby is in the womb until age 7. After the age of 7, the learning curve begins to drop dramatically.Think of bilingual children who ability to speak 2 or several different languages comes from parents who speak 2 or more languages in the home.

The other crucial point is that children in such a pilot program would have the opportunity to speak English everyday and not limited to a 1 hour classroom. After class now, children go back to their native Thai language and forget about the rest. Also, it would help to o reduce the natural shyness

they have with trying to speak English outside the classroom to begin with.

Thailands approach to learning English or another foreign language is completly butt backwards.

We all learn to speak our natisve language in the Home where ALL native languages are spoken.

We certainly do not learn to read or write first do we. Wle Learn To Speak First..What could possibily be more logical or natural than that. Who would pay for this you might ask. Well that would be a joint financial effort on the part of the Embassies involved and the Thai Ministry of Education.

Well putting Thai children in the offshore homes of families who have English as their main language is a nice idea, but impossible to accomodate all Thai children. Imagine the jockeying for places and guess who would win the places - those with influence. Again the poor and middle class lose out.

Plus, I just can't imagine that embassies would ever put up such funds, and certainly not on a long term basis, plus the stubbornness of Thais to accept foreign help would kill such a scheme before it got started. (intervention in Thailands' business would be the way the Education and other ministries would see it).

The broad answer, benefitting all Thai children / all Thais is to commence strong immersion in English at an early age, perhaps Kinder 2, and into Primary school as part of the standard school curriculum in all schools (Thai langauge must of course also be in the curriculum)..

As I've already said, this is how kids learn English in the Phillipines and many other counties. It works, the results are good, it's painless and costs are minimal - in fact the normal teachers do this teaching. The bulk of the needed materials are already well developed.

It does of course depend on the standard teachers having personal strong English ability. The Phillipines have used this approach for several decades, end result, the majority of Phillipinos speak good English (with an accent, but that's a different subject), and today's standard Phillipino teachers have been through the process, they have good listening and speaking skill, big vocabulary, etc, and they are well capable of teaching English.

The other point is young age - as already mentioned by other posters, kids up to about 7 or 8 years old (even older) have a quest for knowledge (their brains drive them to search for knowledge / to soak up knowledge, and to sort knowledge), then this quest for knowledge starts to slowly taper off, and by adulthood everybody becomes very selective of what they learn.

Also true is that young children have in inborn ability to quickly develop skills and to very quickly turn knowledge into skills, all very useful in language learning.

Edited April 4, 2012 by scorecard

[Gone]

The author of this article is a wrong.

A white hillbilly native speaker from Texas, USA without a degree in English literature can never be an inspiration for Thai students.

This is a racist remark and to tell the truth I think that a Thai kid would rather learn from a "white hillbilly native speaker from Texas" rather than a Knuckle smashing, ear pulling, sour faced, old Thai English Teacher who can't even speak English herself but is well prepared that when a poor kid makes a mistake she is ready to embarrass him in front of his class by humiliation and degradation.

It’s no wonder when these kids are asked by their Thai English teacher to answer a question that no one raises their hands to answer.

Now........in walks the "White Hillbilly native English speaker from Texas" smiling, making jokes enjoying his work day and puts on some Tom & Jerry videos and asks the students to separate into teams and after the video the team that can make the most English sentences from the video WINS !!!!!!, Now you tell me who the students WANT to learn English from, the hillbilly or the knuckle smasher?????

And do you really (the author) think that by shoving GRAMMAR down their throats that it will make them WANT to learn English? NO !!!!!!

Grammar is the least important thing they need to know to have "Conversational English."

If Thai "Culture" doesn't mean they should learn the number 1 Internationally spoken language the fine let them play "hooky" instead and then when 2015 ASEAN comes see how many countries will hire Thai's who cannot speak English compared to let's say Cambodians who CAN speak English. Thai's will remain food vendors while the rest of Asia travels around and gets good jobs as Engineers etc right?

If Thailand wants their people to learn English I have said it before, the things they need to do is:

• Drop this "Must have a degree" to get a Work Permit crap
  
• Pay a decent salary so people might stay and teach rather then get a check and move elsewhere
  
• Sell all these stupid tablets, iPads etc. and put the money towards better salaries for native speakers
  
• Drop Grammar as part of the teachings. Maybe just enough that it makes sense if needed
  
• Stop hiring Philippines to teach English just because they work cheap
  
• And last but not least: Re-train the students to have some respect for the English teachers like they did 10 years ago!!!!!!
  

The author of this article really needs to get out sometime and see what is real and also to stop being racist toward people from Texas.

[Sing_Sling]

The author of this article is a wrong.

• Drop this "Must have a degree" to get a Work Permit crap
  
• Pay a decent salary so people might stay and teach rather then get a check and move elsewhere
  
• Sell all these stupid tablets, iPads etc. and put the money towards better salaries for native speakers
  
• Drop Grammar as part of the teachings. Maybe just enough that it makes sense if needed
  
• Stop hiring Philippines to teach English just because they work cheap
  
• And last but not least: Re-train the students to have some respect for the English teachers like they did 10 years ago!!!!!!
  

The author of this article really needs to get out sometime and see what is real and also to stop being racist toward people from Texas.

You make some good points, especially in the teaching methodology vis-a-vis what keeps children's attention span . . . but you make a mistake saying that grammar is not important - especially when you then bring up 2015 and bemoan Thais' miserable English . . .

Degrees - pretty much every country has qualification prerequisites for professions - and so they should.

Salaries will always be too low . . . whether in the west or here

Tabs, iPads etc . . . it is the future and children may as well become au fait with them asap

Grammar - vital

Filipinos are more effective English teachers simply because they have a degree (if they do) - and if they are true pedagogues.

Respect . . . that went out and will never come back en gros

[Thai at Heart]

The author of this article is a wrong.

• Drop this "Must have a degree" to get a Work Permit crap
  
• Pay a decent salary so people might stay and teach rather then get a check and move elsewhere
  
• Sell all these stupid tablets, iPads etc. and put the money towards better salaries for native speakers
  
• Drop Grammar as part of the teachings. Maybe just enough that it makes sense if needed
  
• Stop hiring Philippines to teach English just because they work cheap
  
• And last but not least: Re-train the students to have some respect for the English teachers like they did 10 years ago!!!!!!
  

The author of this article really needs to get out sometime and see what is real and also to stop being racist toward people from Texas.

You make some good points, especially in the teaching methodology vis-a-vis what keeps children's attention span . . . but you make a mistake saying that grammar is not important - especially when you then bring up 2015 and bemoan Thais' miserable English . . .

Degrees - pretty much every country has qualification prerequisites for professions - and so they should.

Salaries will always be too low . . . whether in the west or here

Tabs, iPads etc . . . it is the future and children may as well become au fait with them asap

Grammar - vital

Filipinos are more effective English teachers simply because they have a degree (if they do) - and if they are true pedagogues.

Respect . . . that went out and will never come back en gros

I would disagree with the requirement for a "degree" to be able to teach English. As I wrote earlier there are many fluent English speakers, or retired teachers who can be employed to start the process of speaking English for very little. You don't need a degree to start the process of speaking English with primary school and slightly older kids.

If we have now come to the point that there are many Thai students who can understand and write grammatically correctly, but can't speak, employing well spoken retired farangs is an absolute no brainer. I would dearly love to set up an "English corner" training school come meeting place for students, but the moment I would invite well spoken friends to come and participate in reading clubs, or speech training, or essay writing, were I to give them some 'pocket money" for their time, I would essentially be breaking the law and putting them at risk.

My father is a retired dentist with plenty of training experience, and we joked about him coming over here to lend his experience to the dentistry faculty at the local university. Could you imagine how difficult that would be to put in place in terms of work permits and paperwork?

[geriatrickid]

A university diploma in Education from an accredited university is a step in the direction of ensuring that some basic standards can be met. If I was a parent, I would object to an unqualified person teaching my child. Ideally, teachers should pass exams to demonstrate a knowledge of the fundamentals. Grammar is indeed important. The reason many unqualified teachers will say it is not is attributable to their inability to master basic grammar skills. Youse guys isn't getting this right.

[Puccini]

The editorial in The Nation emphasises the importance of English for the purpose of international trade, so I thought I'd look up the statistic of Thailand's trade balance.

Why is the trade balance of Thailand positive, of the USA negative? There must be more to it than knowing the English language.

[bigbamboo]

The author of this article is a wrong.

A white hillbilly native speaker from Texas, USA without a degree in English literature can never be an inspiration for Thai students.

This is a racist remark and to tell the truth I think that a Thai kid would rather learn from a "white hillbilly native speaker from Texas" rather than a Knuckle smashing, ear pulling, sour faced, old Thai English Teacher who can't even speak English herself but is well prepared that when a poor kid makes a mistake she is ready to embarrass him in front of his class by humiliation and degradation.

It’s no wonder when these kids are asked by their Thai English teacher to answer a question that no one raises their hands to answer.

Now........in walks the "White Hillbilly native English speaker from Texas" smiling, making jokes enjoying his work day and puts on some Tom & Jerry videos and asks the students to separate into teams and after the video the team that can make the most English sentences from the video WINS !!!!!!, Now you tell me who the students WANT to learn English from, the hillbilly or the knuckle smasher?????

And do you really (the author) think that by shoving GRAMMAR down their throats that it will make them WANT to learn English? NO !!!!!!

Grammar is the least important thing they need to know to have "Conversational English."

If Thai "Culture" doesn't mean they should learn the number 1 Internationally spoken language the fine let them play "hooky" instead and then when 2015 ASEAN comes see how many countries will hire Thai's who cannot speak English compared to let's say Cambodians who CAN speak English. Thai's will remain food vendors while the rest of Asia travels around and gets good jobs as Engineers etc right?

If Thailand wants their people to learn English I have said it before, the things they need to do is:

• Drop this "Must have a degree" to get a Work Permit crap
  
• Pay a decent salary so people might stay and teach rather then get a check and move elsewhere
  
• Sell all these stupid tablets, iPads etc. and put the money towards better salaries for native speakers
  
• Drop Grammar as part of the teachings. Maybe just enough that it makes sense if needed
  
• Stop hiring Philippines to teach English just because they work cheap
  
• And last but not least: Re-train the students to have some respect for the English teachers like they did 10 years ago!!!!!!
  

The author of this article really needs to get out sometime and see what is real and also to stop being racist toward people from Texas.

Are Texans a race?...... apart from the Mexicans

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

I went to Big C (Chiang Rai) yesterday, picked up three cans of APPLE JUICE (Treetop) which was in a can. The counter clerk refused to check out the three cans and I could not understand why. She said alcohol. ALCOHOL? I said in Thai "That's Apple JUICE". Said it a number of times - three to be exact. The person ahead of me was also somewhat perplexed - and then after a moment understood what I was trying to say. The can clearly showed APPLE JUICE. But apparently, the check-out counter clerk assumed those were beer cans without even reading the label.

That's English proficiency.

No...That is just plain ignorance and stupidity...

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

The author of this article is a wrong.

• Drop this "Must have a degree" to get a Work Permit crap
  
• Pay a decent salary so people might stay and teach rather then get a check and move elsewhere
  
• Sell all these stupid tablets, iPads etc. and put the money towards better salaries for native speakers
  
• Drop Grammar as part of the teachings. Maybe just enough that it makes sense if needed
  
• Stop hiring Philippines to teach English just because they work cheap
  
• And last but not least: Re-train the students to have some respect for the English teachers like they did 10 years ago!!!!!!
  

The author of this article really needs to get out sometime and see what is real and also to stop being racist toward people from Texas.

You make some good points, especially in the teaching methodology vis-a-vis what keeps children's attention span . . . but you make a mistake saying that grammar is not important - especially when you then bring up 2015 and bemoan Thais' miserable English . . .

Degrees - pretty much every country has qualification prerequisites for professions - and so they should.

Salaries will always be too low . . . whether in the west or here

Tabs, iPads etc . . . it is the future and children may as well become au fait with them asap

Grammar - vital

Filipinos are more effective English teachers simply because they have a degree (if they do) - and if they are true pedagogues.

Respect . . . that went out and will never come back en gros

I would disagree with the requirement for a "degree" to be able to teach English. As I wrote earlier there are many fluent English speakers, or retired teachers who can be employed to start the process of speaking English for very little. You don't need a degree to start the process of speaking English with primary school and slightly older kids.

If we have now come to the point that there are many Thai students who can understand and write grammatically correctly, but can't speak, employing well spoken retired farangs is an absolute no brainer. I would dearly love to set up an "English corner" training school come meeting place for students, but the moment I would invite well spoken friends to come and participate in reading clubs, or speech training, or essay writing, were I to give them some 'pocket money" for their time, I would essentially be breaking the law and putting them at risk.

My father is a retired dentist with plenty of training experience, and we joked about him coming over here to lend his experience to the dentistry faculty at the local university. Could you imagine how difficult that would be to put in place in terms of work permits and paperwork?

Well said Thai at Heart...!

[nurofiend]

screw english, i'm learning mandarin

Very intelligent and perceoptive. And everyone in China is learning.............. English!

i already know that one though...

Worth sharing .... about 4 or 5 years ago Time magazine did a big monthly issue based mostly on China.

I'm not quick to believe the accuracy of surveys and statistics however I assume that Time would be fairly careful in any statistics that they include in their publication.

To the point - Time quoted that the total number of Chinese people currently learning to speak English (primary, secondary schools, universities, governmet and private language institutes) was greater than the total number of people, in the rest of the world who currently speak English.

I worked on numerous projects in China over nearly two decades and I did notice the change in English conversation ability, but more especially in the bigger citties (Beijing, Shanghai and the new industiral cities of Shenzen, Quangjo, and more). A simple example, you walk into a Starbucks or similar, lots of new modern restaurants etc., 90% of the staff have no hesitation to engage in a detailed English conversation.

Another simple example - There's a chain of Thai restaurants in many Chinese cities (owned by Chinese). It's called 'Simply Thai', all of their staff speak excellent English and can easily engage in detailed discussion about wines, food, and more.

i think it's that it's becoming the biggest english speaking country in the world, rather than more english speakers than all the rest of the world but i could be wrong but i've definietly read that somewhere..

anyway, i've also spent time in china myself and while you do find people with a good grasp of the language, you still find a hell of a lot who don't speak a word, even in shanghai

i spent most of my time in a city called nanchang and english speakers were few and far between.

anyway, my original comment wasn't serious... just a little joke about people's fears of china taking over the world was my intention

though, i do know some very basic mandarin and i do think it would be a great language to be fluent in, for opportunities in the future... as while i don't think the chinese will be sitting in human drawn carriages wipping us around the place in the future , they will have a huge economic takeover. worldwide

[kerryk]

A university diploma in Education from an accredited university is a step in the direction of ensuring that some basic standards can be met. If I was a parent, I would object to an unqualified person teaching my child. Ideally, teachers should pass exams to demonstrate a knowledge of the fundamentals. Grammar is indeed important. The reason many unqualified teachers will say it is not is attributable to their inability to master basic grammar skills. Youse guys isn't getting this right.

I've taught school in Thailand from kindergarten through college for a number of years. I have a number of degrees from accredited universities in the West. Almost all the Thai teachers I met had degrees. A few of the English teachers could even speak English in addition to having a degree in English. Since all the Thai teachers who teach in schools from kindergarten to college have degrees I find it hard to justify an English teacher whatever nationality not having a degree. I would give all the English teachers a copy of Elements of Style, after all it's free.

For teachers as other professions one has to draw the line someplace about education. I agree with geriatrickid, educators need degrees.

Sure the boys trying to hold on in Thailand with no money or education will insist on some makeshift short course but the reality of the matter is teachers should be held to a higher standard than a common laborer.

Could retired guys fill the gap? Sure but there are enough with degrees available to make it not a problem.

[Thai at Heart]

A university diploma in Education from an accredited university is a step in the direction of ensuring that some basic standards can be met. If I was a parent, I would object to an unqualified person teaching my child. Ideally, teachers should pass exams to demonstrate a knowledge of the fundamentals. Grammar is indeed important. The reason many unqualified teachers will say it is not is attributable to their inability to master basic grammar skills. Youse guys isn't getting this right.

I've taught school in Thailand from kindergarten through college for a number of years. I have a number of degrees from accredited universities in the West. Almost all the Thai teachers I met had degrees. A few of the English teachers could even speak English in addition to having a degree in English. Since all the Thai teachers who teach in schools from kindergarten to college have degrees I find it hard to justify an English teacher whatever nationality not having a degree. I would give all the English teachers a copy of Elements of Style, after all it's free.

For teachers as other professions one has to draw the line someplace about education. I agree with geriatrickid, educators need degrees.

Sure the boys trying to hold on in Thailand with no money or education will insist on some makeshift short course but the reality of the matter is teachers should be held to a higher standard than a common laborer.

Could retired guys fill the gap? Sure but there are enough with degrees available to make it not a problem.

I don't disagree with you, however, but it seems there is a massive lack of ability in spoken English beyond the grammatical ability to read and write. On the basis that there are many many schools with very few native speakers at all, why not make the position of "spoken English assistant"? This position wouldn't necessarily need a degree position.

I am only making this point from the perspective of knowing that there are many who would love to contribute, can contribute, but the work permit requirements are far too onerous. Of course they should try to employ as many qualified teachers as possible, but there is a very large untapped pool of people already in the country who would be more than willing to contribute too.

[sparebox2]

Thai student are excellent in their English GRAMMAR, and can score above any Farang children of their same age in a multiple choice GRAMMAR test.

However, most leave their GRAMMAR knowledge in their school when they graduate.

[kerryk]

Thai student are excellent in their English GRAMMAR, and can score above any Farang children of their same age in a multiple choice GRAMMAR test.

However, most leave their GRAMMAR knowledge in their school when they graduate.

Boy you lost me there. Could you give me an example of grammar a Thai student in 4th grade would understand?

[sparebox2]

Thai student are excellent in their English GRAMMAR, and can score above any Farang children of their same age in a multiple choice GRAMMAR test.

However, most leave their GRAMMAR knowledge in their school when they graduate.

Boy you lost me there. Could you give me an example of grammar a Thai student in 4th grade would understand?

Thai student in 4th grade would NOT understand any grammer. But they are taught how do pick the right answers in muliple choice tests. There are no muliple choice in real life speech, that's why they couldn't utter a word.

[kerryk]

Thai student are excellent in their English GRAMMAR, and can score above any Farang children of their same age in a multiple choice GRAMMAR test.

However, most leave their GRAMMAR knowledge in their school when they graduate.

Boy you lost me there. Could you give me an example of grammar a Thai student in 4th grade would understand?

Thai student in 4th grade would NOT understand any grammer. But they are taught how do pick the right answers in muliple choice tests. There are no muliple choice in real life speech, that's why they couldn't utter a word.

OK since you seem to know, how about an example of a multiple choice grammar question that the Thai students are taught how to answer? You did say, "They are taught how to pick the right answer."

[Sing_Sling]

My father is a retired dentist with plenty of training experience, and we joked about him coming over here to lend his experience to the dentistry faculty at the local university. Could you imagine how difficult that would be to put in place in terms of work permits and paperwork?

Of course there will be paperwork and permits - why on earth shouldn't there be?! As I stated previously, virtually every country has qualification requirements and the ensuing paperwork and permits to go along with it.

No disrespect to your father (despite him being a dentist. ) and I am sure he could prove to be a very valuable indeed . . . but do you really not see the need for paperwork and permits? He has the specific degree to the subject he would be lecturing in so that should make it easier, if it weren't a 'protected' profession . . . would you be as happy and willing for a Zambian or Haitian dentist to be channeled through the system without paperwork or permits?

Why is the trade balance of Thailand positive, of the USA negative? There must be more to it than knowing the English language.

You're kidding, right?

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I wouldn't want my children to be taught by someone without a degree, specifically a degree in the specified subject area . . . as one learns a heck of a lot more than just the subject matter when you have a Dip. Ed.

TEFLers are ok for adults and for conversational English but not for kids . . .

Every teacher in my kids' school has a Dip Ed, half from a local Uni and the other from their respective countries . . . which is the way it should be.

[scorecard]

Thai student are excellent in their English GRAMMAR, and can score above any Farang children of their same age in a multiple choice GRAMMAR test.

However, most leave their GRAMMAR knowledge in their school when they graduate.

Boy you lost me there. Could you give me an example of grammar a Thai student in 4th grade would understand?

Well my grandddaughter attends a 'full English' sream at her school, just starting P2 (not a govt. school).

Her 'grammar' is developing quite nicely through the well organized work of her farang *English teacher who expains then quickly gets the kids immersed in that lesson, both verbally and through repeated homework.

Simple examples - How to use:

- 'is', & 'are'

- 'This' and 'these'

and lots more. And she's doing well.

Three weeks ago she had her end of year exam for P1. Part of the English exam was multiple choice, and again I use the examples of 'is' and 'are' etc. She did well, she's second in her class for English.

I repeat, the major focus of the classroom work is on getting the kids to develop listening and speaking skills, and building their confidence to speak.

*Teacher is from Englnad, has bachelor and masters degree in education, plus specialized training in teaching young children, and has additional qualifications in teaching English to young children where English is the second language. Plus he and the school have excellent and up to date materials. And I know from from discussions with this guy he has very strong knowledge of early childhood development and he uses this knowledge well in how he approaches teaching the kids.

Edited April 5, 2012 by scorecard

[steven100]

Thais must learn english.

I have been saying this for the past 10 years and they are still dragging there feet on this issue.

The old ' thais don't need to speak english as there native language is thai which makes them unique ' doesn't hold water.

This is a load of rubbish as all nationalities need to learn english even if it's just basic english, as long as you can communicate effectively.

The world over uses english as the #1 international language through every day business dealings and general communication.

How can school leavers ever apply or even be considered for a position in another country if he or she cannot speak english ?

Tourism revenue accounts for some 80% of thai income .... so with this revenue being such a large chunk of the countries income ... wouldn't it be a priority to ensure the population and especially those working in the tourism industry can speak english ?

How can the country move forward when the younger generation cannot understand any english ?

If Thailand doe's not make english mandatory for school student and include it in the curriculum it will be left behind.

It will continue to become know for it's lack of motivation, planning and development for the young and it will continue to be 50 years behind the times.

[sparebox2]

Thais must learn english.

I have been saying this for the past 10 years and they are still dragging there feet on this issue.

The old ' thais don't need to speak english as there native language is thai which makes them unique ' doesn't hold water.

This is a load of rubbish as all nationalities need to learn english even if it's just basic english, as long as you can communicate effectively.

The world over uses english as the #1 international language through every day business dealings and general communication.

How can school leavers ever apply or even be considered for a position in another country if he or she cannot speak english ?

Tourism revenue accounts for some 80% of thai income .... so with this revenue being such a large chunk of the countries income ... wouldn't it be a priority to ensure the population and especially those working in the tourism industry can speak english ?

How can the country move forward when the younger generation cannot understand any english ?

If Thailand doe's not make english mandatory for school student and include it in the curriculum it will be left behind.

It will continue to become know for it's lack of motivation, planning and development for the young and it will continue to be 50 years behind the times.

The world over uses english as the #1 international language through every day business dealings and general communication. I agree.

However, there are more Chinese native speakers than English one.

[Sing_Sling]

The world over uses english as the #1 international language through every day business dealings and general communication. I agree.

However, there are more Chinese native speakers than English one.

Yes, but 99% of them are in China . . . there are also more native Spanish speakers but the importance isn't measured by numbers alone. Just look at this site, there was a poll a while ago about the backgrounds of the posters - 15% were from non-English-speaking ethnicities/nationalities . . . if you can find a Chinese language expat website like this for Thailand I doubt you would find many - if any - non-Chinese-ethnic posters.

There are more English-language internet pages than Chinese as well, which makes the decision quite simple in that English is the way to go. (there are many other reasons, of course, like ease of learning etc...)