Can You Obtain A Work Permit If You Have Had A 4 Year Jail Term For Fraud In The Uk

[loonodingle]

Can any one advise on the immigration law regarding disclosure of criminal convictions. I know someone who wants to work as a general manager of a property development company in Thailand. He has a previous conviction in the UK for fraud several years ago. He got 4 year's jail term. Would this hinder him getting a work permit. Does he have to declare it and what if he just kept quite. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[Soutpeel]

^{Unless your coming to work as an English teacher, there is no requirement for disclosure for the most part as regards being issued a WP, however employers may require it as part of your contractual conditions.}

^{I am going to apologise now...but cant help sniggering considering what your friend went down for and the job he is coming to do here, considering the reputation of property development companies in Thailand. If he went down for fraud one could suggest he is well qualified for a job in Thailand real estate then}

Edited April 8, 2012 by tombkk
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[loonodingle]

Hmmmm I sort off agree with you there. I did see on a website for Thai work permits they say you have to have a clean record so iwas seeing if that's correct. It seems like it isn't then . Thx

[Pseudolus]

Do us a favour though and let us know which company he works for; just so we all know which company to support (i.e., not that one)

[Colabamumbai]

Teaching and managing a hotel at different times, with different work permits, the question was never asked. Three work permits in 2 years.

[loonodingle]

Do us a favour though and let us know which company he works for; just so we all know which company to support (i.e., not that one)

Actually, The story goes that he already works for a Major Company in Pattaya. I cant reveal there name as they havent done anything wrong, however he has ripped my wife of for nearly 100,000 baht. I was hoping someone would say you cant work in Thailand if you are a convicted person and i could tip off immigration and have him hauled away.

If only we knew before he was a fraudster we would have not trusted him to sell our property (Vehicle) while we are away in the UK.

[Cuchulainn]

I'd tip them off anyway!!

[Mario2008]

Several posts containing illegal advise and replies to that have been deleted, as has a post using inapropriete language.

[Soutpeel]

Do us a favour though and let us know which company he works for; just so we all know which company to support (i.e., not that one)

Actually, The story goes that he already works for a Major Company in Pattaya. I cant reveal there name as they havent done anything wrong, however he has ripped my wife of for nearly 100,000 baht. I was hoping someone would say you cant work in Thailand if you are a convicted person and i could tip off immigration and have him hauled away.

If only we knew before he was a fraudster we would have not trusted him to sell our property (Vehicle) while we are away in the UK.

How do you know he even has a WP then ?.....Would suggest most likely not...a call to Immigration could still work ?

[Time Traveller]

Do us a favour though and let us know which company he works for; just so we all know which company to support (i.e., not that one)

Actually, The story goes that he already works for a Major Company in Pattaya. I cant reveal there name as they havent done anything wrong, however he has ripped my wife of for nearly 100,000 baht. I was hoping someone would say you cant work in Thailand if you are a convicted person and i could tip off immigration and have him hauled away.

If only we knew before he was a fraudster we would have not trusted him to sell our property (Vehicle) while we are away in the UK.

.If he has a valid visa, then why would Immigration care? Work permits are not handled by them. In any case, why would you even bother? Sounds like you are just after some self satisfying revenge. If he really did ripped your wife off for nearly 100,000 baht, don't you think the police is probably the first place you'd contact?

[loonodingle]

Revenge is quite right. Nail on the head so to speak. My point was if someone has a non disclosed criminal record are they entitled to hold a work permit. The answer appears to be yes that's fine. Unless you are a teacher. As far as police goes well you know how it is. I don't have a friendly cop and we are 6000 miles away.

[Mario2008]

[.If he has a valid visa, then why would Immigration care? Work permits are not handled by them. In any case, why would you even bother? Sounds like you are just after some self satisfying revenge. If he really did ripped your wife off for nearly 100,000 baht, don't you think the police is probably the first place you'd contact?

Immigration is tasked with keeping undesirable foreigners out of the country. Under Thai law, being sentenced and jailed almost automatically means deportation for a foreigner.

This is also immigrations business and they have a investigative division for these kind of things.

[Mario2008]

Revenge is quite right. Nail on the head so to speak. My point was if someone has a non disclosed criminal record are they entitled to hold a work permit. The answer appears to be yes that's fine. Unless you are a teacher. As far as police goes well you know how it is. I don't have a friendly cop and we are 6000 miles away.

You don't have to reveal a criminal conviction. Non the less, Thai immigration laws are there to keep undesireble persons out and a conviction can mean that if immigration becomes aware of it a person can be denied entry or expelled as being a danger to society.

Think for instance back to the case of a former popstar caught with child pornography in the UK. He wanted entry into Thailand and was denied by immigration after having troubles in Cambodia.

[Wavefloater]

^{Unless your coming to work as an English teacher, there is no requirement for disclosure for the most part as regards being issued a WP, however employers may require it as part of your contractual conditions.}

^{I am going to apologise now...but cant help sniggering considering what your friend went down for and the job he is coming to do here, considering the reputation of property development companies in Thailand. If he went down for fraud one could suggest he is well qualified for a job in Thailand real estate then}

The first thing I though was: Why would someone want to hire a person for this type of job if they've already been convicted of and served time for fraud.?

But then soutpeel reminded me that with the nature of property development in Thailand, having experience in committing fraud is probably a preferable qualification. On the other hand, the employer may want to find someone who did it better by actually getting away with it.

[Time Traveller]

Revenge is quite right. Nail on the head so to speak. My point was if someone has a non disclosed criminal record are they entitled to hold a work permit. The answer appears to be yes that's fine. Unless you are a teacher. As far as police goes well you know how it is. I don't have a friendly cop and we are 6000 miles away.

You don't have to reveal a criminal conviction. Non the less, Thai immigration laws are there to keep undesireble persons out and a conviction can mean that if immigration becomes aware of it a person can be denied entry or expelled as being a danger to society.

Think for instance back to the case of a former popstar caught with child pornography in the UK. He wanted entry into Thailand and was denied by immigration after having troubles in Cambodia.

Judging by the number of terrorists Thai immigration have let into the country recently with intentions to bomb the country, then I think you'd have a lot more success to get him thrown out if you report the guy to the Daily Sun, than if you did reporting him to Thai immigration.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Time Traveller

[visarunner]

According to the Immigration Act of Thailand B.E. 2522 (1979), foreigners who fall into any of the following categories are prohibited to enter Thailand:

(6) Having been imprisoned by judgment of the Thai Court; or by lawful injunction or judgment of the Court of a foreign country, except for when the penalty is for a petty offence, or negligence, or is provided for as an exception by the Ministerial Regulations.

[loonodingle]

^{Unless your coming to work as an English teacher, there is no requirement for disclosure for the most part as regards being issued a WP, however employers may require it as part of your contractual conditions.}

^{I am going to apologise now...but cant help sniggering considering what your friend went down for and the job he is coming to do here, considering the reputation of property development companies in Thailand. If he went down for fraud one could suggest he is well qualified for a job in Thailand real estate then}

The first thing I though was: Why would someone want to hire a person for this type of job if they've already been convicted of and served time for fraud.?

But then soutpeel reminded me that with the nature of property development in Thailand, having experience in committing fraud is probably a preferable qualification. On the other hand, the employer may want to find someone who did it better by actually getting away with it.

Thanks for your comments. We didn't know until after the event. When we told some associates who said " you know he done 4 years for fraud and told us the tale etc. I won't go over the story on here as its not the place. I just wanted to know if I could have my revenge when I found out he could be classed as an undesirable person. It's appears forma post that he can. So I shall gather my evidence and present it to immigration. Unfortunately some people only show there other side when they have your money. 6000 miles away doesnt help however the wife's just secured a good deal on Thai airways to get out there. Anyway thanks for all the advice RE the law. I will put it to good use.

[soi41]

To the OP. Put it down to a lesson learned, not that I in anyway find it acceptable, that someone cheat you of a 100k baht. But believe me, immigration will no absolutely nothing. Probably tell you to file a policerapport, which again will lead to nothing. So get on with your life and don't push the envelope to hard, which might lead to you beeing hurt more than financially. Life is cheap here, which your wife should be able to confirm

[visarunner]

To the OP. Put it down to a lesson learned, not that I in anyway find it acceptable, that someone cheat you of a 100k baht. But believe me, immigration will no absolutely nothing. Probably tell you to file a policerapport, which again will lead to nothing. So get on with your life and don't push the envelope to hard, which might lead to you beeing hurt more than financially.

To Soi41, Thai Immigration will take fast action if evidence is provided.

[loonodingle]

To the OP. Put it down to a lesson learned, not that I in anyway find it acceptable, that someone cheat you of a 100k baht. But believe me, immigration will no absolutely nothing. Probably tell you to file a policerapport, which again will lead to nothing. So get on with your life and don't push the envelope to hard, which might lead to you beeing hurt more than financially. Life is cheap here, which your wife should be able to confirm

Its not about the money m8 its the principle and after 20 years in Thailand i know how cheap life is but i am not concerned.

I had a German Property developer try to bash my brains in for sueing him for stealing a few Mill baht for a house i paid him to build, but i pursued him. I got 75% of my money back. These people rely on people like you taking that attitude. Only its only 100k and another one ohh only 100k. No balls or back bone to do anything through fear of getting done in. Thats why Pattaya's in such a state and so many people get done. Dont roll over for anyone.

I have been informed he's one of the Falang who tips the police off when the girls are doing a show or having a shorttime upstairs so i doubt if they will do anything but immigration might.

So Thx Visa Runner i shal get it all together.

[soi41]

With all your balls and backbone, why don't you confront him face to face ? To grass someone to immigration, is in my book the height of cowardness !

[loonodingle]

With all your balls and backbone, why don't you confront him face to face ? To grass someone to immigration, is in my book the height of cowardness !

Ha jails are full of people who punch peoples heads in. DNA, witnesses etc etc.

The topic is not about someones cowardice or what your standard of cowardice is I have told him i am going to have him. he is probably reading this post. you could be him :-)))).

It doesnt help that i am not in Thailand as i have just come out of hospital.

Anyway thanks for the advice.

My advice is theres more than one way to skin a cat. And a good kicking doesnt help. Real pain is a deportation. Thats lasting and far more satisfying from my point of view LOL.

[NanLaew]

... I have been informed he's one of the Falang who tips the police off when the girls are doing a show or having a shorttime upstairs so i doubt if they will do anything but immigration might. ....

If this information is correct, then the subject of your post already knows the borderline legality of any WP he may hold and furthermore, how tenuous his presence in LOS could be. By allegedly ingratiating himself with local 'law enforcement' by grassing on whores in gogo bars, he already has a certain degree of 'protection' in place. It is true that Immigration police seem to be more purposeful than their Soi 9 or Tourist counterparts but it would be up to them to decide if there's sufficient threat to Thailand's well being to go after him. If someone in the police really doesn't want him to be kicked out, then he won't be and the OP will be none the wiser, just a bit more pissed off.

If I was out of pocket for a few million baht, I would send the wife over and see what can be done. However, for 100k baht? Is it really worth it? Even if the OP's wife got a smokin' deal on the airticket, that's probably 25% of the 100k baht claimed to have been defrauded out of already spent. Just look at the much more despicable types that have been openly arrested in Pattaya for everything from producing pornography to multiple counts of real estate fraud in the order of millions of baht. Then check on how many of them actually have been prosecuted and deported. This dodgy realtor may be really low in the Pattaya pond life but I would think his resources to defend himself when being f*cked with may be more than the OP's good wife can handle.

[loonodingle]

... I have been informed he's one of the Falang who tips the police off when the girls are doing a show or having a shorttime upstairs so i doubt if they will do anything but immigration might. ....

If this information is correct, then the subject of your post already knows the borderline legality of any WP he may hold and furthermore, how tenuous his presence in LOS could be. By allegedly ingratiating himself with local 'law enforcement' by grassing on whores in gogo bars, he already has a certain degree of 'protection' in place. It is true that Immigration police seem to be more purposeful than their Soi 9 or Tourist counterparts but it would be up to them to decide if there's sufficient threat to Thailand's well being to go after him. If someone in the police really doesn't want him to be kicked out, then he won't be and the OP will be none the wiser, just a bit more pissed off.

If I was out of pocket for a few million baht, I would send the wife over and see what can be done. However, for 100k baht? Is it really worth it? Even if the OP's wife got a smokin' deal on the airticket, that's probably 25% of the 100k baht claimed to have been defrauded out of already spent. Just look at the much more despicable types that have been openly arrested in Pattaya for everything from producing pornography to multiple counts of real estate fraud in the order of millions of baht. Then check on how many of them actually have been prosecuted and deported. This dodgy realtor may be really low in the Pattaya pond life but I would think his resources to defend himself when being f*cked with may be more than the OP's good wife can handle.

The 100k is now the whole vehicle. 4 door 3year old Vigo Prerunner. 30k clicks. He's sold it and pocketed the cash. told us to take him to court. We havent signed the book over to anybody and its in my wifes name. But the cars gone. He told us to buy it back if we want it.

Found out he had his UK wife send out the proceeds of their house sale before he told her he was shacked up with a bar girl. She's now on her brothers Sofa Homeless.

Kin nightmare. They rely on the fact that you are not in Thailand and they have friends. The wifes family will sort it i think. Been a flurry of phone calls all day. Amazing Thailand.

[soi41]

More like amazing Britons ! BTW if you have any more cars for sale in that pricebracket, I am buying.

[loonodingle]

More like amazing Britons ! BTW if you have any more cars for sale in that pricebracket, I am buying.

The whole vehicle was supposed to be sold for 475,000 and he then told us he only got 375,000. Now he says he hasn't got any of the money. It's not 100k for the car.

[tombkk]

Here is my take on it. Please note this is my personal opinion, not a mod post.

The fellow committed a crime back in his country for which we was sentenced. The way I understand the OP, he has completed his sentence, and therefore received his punishment. I know other people who then come to Thailand to work an honest life, as they are prejudiced against in their home countries. Yes, the punishment (incarceration) does change people. Not everybody, but then, not everybody who was never convicted won't commit fraud.

Therefore, please give this person the benefit of the doubt. Why do you think that he will commit fraud again? Why do you think that somebody who is not convicted and in the same job will not commit fraud?

A police report showing whether you have ever been convicted is not required for a work permit. Neither it is for a visa. As long as he was officially released from prison and has completed his sentence, I don't think immigration will care. Neither should they. But I don't know Thai immigration law with regards to previous convictions, this is just my opinion.

[lopburi3]

11. According to the Immigration Act of Thailand B.E. 2522 (1979), foreigners who fall into any of the following categories are prohibited to enter Thailand:

(6) Having been imprisoned by judgment of the Thai Court; or by lawful injunction or judgment of the Court of a foreign country, except for when the penalty is for a petty offence, or negligence, or is provided for as an exception by the Ministerial Regulations.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2487

[BigJohnnyBKK]

According to the Immigration Act of Thailand B.E. 2522 (1979), foreigners who fall into any of the following categories are prohibited to enter Thailand:

(6) Having been imprisoned by judgment of the Thai Court; or by lawful injunction or judgment of the Court of a foreign country, except for when the penalty is for a petty offence, or negligence, or is provided for as an exception by the Ministerial Regulations.

I would think commercial fraud would be considered a petty offence here.

Obviously a valuable qualification for many businesses here, real estate and investment advice most of all.

[loonodingle]

Here is my take on it. Please note this is my personal opinion, not a mod post.

The fellow committed a crime back in his country for which we was sentenced. The way I understand the OP, he has completed his sentence, and therefore received his punishment. I know other people who then come to Thailand to work an honest life, as they are prejudiced against in their home countries. Yes, the punishment (incarceration) does change people. Not everybody, but then, not everybody who was never convicted won't commit fraud.

Therefore, please give this person the benefit of the doubt. Why do you think that he will commit fraud again? Why do you think that somebody who is not convicted and in the same job will not commit fraud?

A police report showing whether you have ever been convicted is not required for a work permit. Neither it is for a visa. As long as he was officially released from prison and has completed his sentence, I don't think immigration will care. Neither should they. But I don't know Thai immigration law with regards to previous convictions, this is just my opinion.

Sorry I wasnt really looking for personal opinions on someone's current state of honesty but the legal position wether any person can obtain a work permit if he has been to jail for a serious offence. According to my lawyer Fraud is a serious offence. The guy was supposed to be a friend who was looking after our vehicle for a few weeks and when we asked him to give it to the motherin law to take to bangkok to sell he then said he had someone who wanted it. We thought the price was on the low side but that's ok he needs to make a drink out of it so we agreed. We are trying to get our money and he says he hasn't got it. If you want your car go and buy it back. And f,ing this f,ing that. I am sure when my wife gets there he is going to get a big shock as he knows we are shirt of money and thinks that we can't afford the flight ticket. We have 4 kids and I have been off work and in hospital. We have uncovered a host of facts this week that he had over a bank in Harrow wield for around half a mill several years ago which he done time for and he has conned HMRC out if VAT money with 2 company's here in UK which is one of the reason he can't go back we are informed. He has also conned his wife in England to sell her house and send the money over on the promise of retirement. When she sent the money he then told he sorry we are finished as he is shackled up with a Thai bird.he has been with her for a long time so he has defrauded her. Infact his daughter ( her step daughter) told me Friday she knew what her dad was doing to his wife here. So he's one off the low lifes who are attracted to pattaya. After my wife's finished with him I would dearly love to seek my revenge. And see him booted out of Thailand and back to UK. As it is he is project manager for company in Pattaya who I won't name but when this shakes down I shall let them know the calibre of there staff.