Russian Su30's For Chickens.

[ratcatcher]

In a recent Nation newspaper poll over 75% of people said that the "pending purchase" of Russian SU30 fighter planes was a bad choice. As we all know deep in this deal is a fat and juicy commission for some sleazebag.

However it's chicken and rice time again and Thaksinland is broke so let's make a deal. Buy Russian fighters,give them frozen chickens and low grade rice. ACM Kongsak thinks it's a good deal. What's wrong with good ol' US technology? Can the F16 F18 knock anything out of the sky? Maybe a few Top Guns on this board have an idea. Is this Russian equipment as good as Thaksin thinks?

What about the TV forum. Are you forum or against em?

Any comments?

Edited December 21, 2005 by ratcatcher

[h90]

I don't know the SU30, but in generell the russian military things are good. But I can not compare quality price.

At how many chicken for a F18, how may chicken for a SU 30.

Also there are rumours that with USA rockets you can not fight against USA, because they can tell the rocket somehow that they are not an enemy.

Also many countries don't like the US politic.....

In a recent Nation newspaper poll over 75% of people said that the "pending purchase" of Russian SU30 fighter planes was a bad choice. As we all know deep in this deal is a fat and juicy commission for some sleazebag.

However it's chicken and rice time again and Thaksinland is broke so let's make a deal. Buy Russian fighters,give them frozen chickens and low grade rice. ACM Kongsak thinks it's a good deal.  What's wrong with good ol' US technology? Can the F16 F18 knock anything out of the sky? Maybe a few Top Guns on this board have an idea. Is this Russian equipment as good as Thaksin thinks?

What about the TV forum. Are you forum or against em?

Any comments?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[ilyushin]

Bad idea for Thailand to buy the Su-30s. Not the aircraft , but the Ministry of Commerce cannot even pay for the chicken as funds are not available to repay the Agri Bank for previous transactions using the new barter trade policy.

SU-30 vs F-16C & F-18E/F

The Su-30MKI design, having retained the best features of the unsurpassed Su-27 air-superiority fighter, boasts enhanced functional capabilities. It should be noted that comparison of the Su-30MKI, a heavy-class fighter, with the F-16C Block 50, F-16C Block 60, and F-18E/F aircraft is largely theoretical, as they belong to conceptually different fighter classes and have their own, preferential areas of combat employment. For example, the F-18E/F version, owing to the F/A-18 basic design, features a more pronounced strike-mission capability, while in terms of dimensions, this aircraft is close to the Russian fighter.

The basic tactical and technical characteristics determining the capabilities of any aircraft include its flight performance and avionics and armament characteristics. Their analysis makes it possible to compare aircraft and assess the level of their technical perfection.

The Su-30MKI’s structural and aerodynamic configuration incorporates the latest research and technological achievements. It is a triplane (a combination of conventional design with foreplanes) with a lifting fuselage and developed wingroot extensions. The interaction of the foreplanes and wingroot extensions creates a controlled vortex effect similar to that of the adaptive wing. The F-16 and F-18 designs were developed in the early and mid-1970s. In terms of maximum aerodynamic efficiency, the Su-30MKI, like all Su-27-family aircraft, is unparalleled in the world and outperforms the above foreign counterparts by at least 50 to 100 percent. This is why the latest modernization programs, which gave birth to the F-16C Block 60 and F-18E/F versions, involved the increase of wing span, fuselage length and control surface areas and significantly changed the structural configuration and general layout of their basic versions.

Engines with thrust-vectoring nozzles enable the Su-30MKI to perform such maneuvers as «cobra» vertical reverse, roll in «bell» turn in «cobra» etc. In these maneuvers, an angle of attack can reach 180o. These are not purely aerobatic maneuvers: this supermaneuverability can be effectively used in combat. As for the F-16 and F-18 aircraft, their maximum angles of attack are 30o and 40o, respectively, and they cannot use armament at supercritical angles of attack.

In terms of conventional maneuverability characteristics, all these fighters are very similar. However, according to preliminary assessments, the Su-30MKI’s supermaneuverability gives it a 30-percent superiority over its competitors in close air combat. Aircraft multiple capabilities put into the forefront the problem of effective weapon employment. To solve this problem, the Su-30MKI has a copilot/operator to improve the crew’s performance, weapon employment efficiency and provide for group missions.

The role of avionics in aircraft combat employment is ever growing. A number of the Su-30MKI fighter’s subsystems (navigation and communications equipment, cockpit instruments) are being developed jointly with foreign companies. Consequently, these subsystems will be technologically on a par with the best foreign counterparts. The superiority of the Su-30MKI’s radar in terms of target detection range, scanning sectors and jamming immunity makes it highly effective in long-range air combat.

Modern Russian fighters are equipped with an advanced optronic system designed to search, detect, lock on, automatically track aerial and ground targets and destroy them by onboard weapons. An optical locating station and a helmet-mounted sight incorporated by the system provide for effective weapon employment against aerial targets. The high accuracy and jamming immunity of the system interfaced with the onboard radar make it possible to detect targets at a range of up to 50 km and engage them in good time, significantly enhancing the fighter’s overall combat capabilities. The helmet-mounted sights have only recently appeared on foreign fighters. As for optronic equipment used against ground targets, the capabilities of the F-16’s LANTIRN and F-18E/F’s ATFLIR systems are close to those of the Russian-made analog, although foreign developers maintain a priority in this field.

Compared to the F-16C Block 50, a heavy weapon load carried by the Su-30MKI significantly (by 20 percent) reduces the time required to defeat ground targets by one sortie, especially when using aerial bombs. The F-18E/F fighter is planned to have a similar combat load capacity in the future.

Notably, in terms of quantity and types of weapons, the Russian fighter considerably outclasses the F-16C Block 50 and F-16C Block 60 aircraft. Only the F-18E/F is close to the Su-30MKI in this respect.

In terms of target designation angles, maneuverability, etc., the R-73E close-range air-to-air missile in service with the Su-30MKI significantly outperforms similar foreign missiles and is rightly considered the world’s best in its class. The high energy and ballistic parameters of the Su-30MKI’s long-range air-to-air missiles, combined with the capability of its radar, allow it to deliver preventive strikes against aerial targets, including its potential rivals.

Fitted with 12 weapon stores, carrying a full complement of air-to-air missiles and featuring a multichannel target engagement capability, the Su-30MKI fighter can be effectively used to repulse a massive air raid.

The Su-30MKI has a twofold advantage over the F-16 aircraft in the number of simultaneously carried air-to-ground guided weapons, which are also more efficient. High-power guided weapons carried by the Su-30MKI enable it to defeat deeply buried, hardened and superhardened priority targets. The Su-30MKI’s medium-range guided missile can be launched at stand-off ranges. The F-18E/F fighter is expected to be armed with similar missiles in 2006. It will be also equipped with air-to-surface missiles guided by a satellite navigation system, although export deliveries of these aircraft are unlikely in the near future.

Antiradar and antiship missiles in service with the Su-30MKI fighter excel their foreign couterparts in their mean speed.The Su-30MKI’s gun features higher accuracy and better armor piercing capability against lightly armored vehicles. Owing to its unique features which favorably distinguish it from foreign counterparts, the Su-30MKI is rightly considered one of the best multirole fighters at the beginning of the 21st century.

Aircraft combat capabilities are usually assessed using complex efficiency indicators defining aircraft overall performance. According to preliminary estimates, in long-range air combat, the Su-30MKI outperforms the F-16C Block 60, F-16C Block 50 and F-18E/F aircraft by 15, 20 and 12-15 percent, respectively, owing to its radar’s greater detection range, higher jamming immunity and multichannel capability, as well as better maneuverability.

The Su-30MKI’s supermaneuverability and better air-to-air missiles give this aircraft superiority in close air combat in which it excels the F-16C Block 50 by 10-15 percent, F-16C Block 60 by 20-30 percent (as the high wing loading significantly limits its maneuverability in close-range combat), and F-18E/F by 15-20 percent.

In terms of ground strike capabilities, the Su-30MKI outperforms the F-16C Block 50 by 50 percent and the F-16C Block 60 by 100 percent owing to its better surveillance and fire control radar system, higher survivability, better maneuverability, heavier combat load and longer flight range. The F-18E/F, following its modernization which has increased its flight range, armament suite and ammunition load and upgraded its surveillance and fire control radar system, still lags behind the Su-30MKI in strike capability by 15 to 20 percent.

Another distinguishing feature of the Su-30MKI is its high versatility. It can be used as an air defense interceptor, a strike aircraft or a flying command post. It can be used as a leader aircraft of combined fighter groups (including those of light fighters), ensuring their cooperation and concentration of efforts. In addition, the SDU-10MK digital fly-by-wire control system makes it possible to use the Su-30MKI as a combat trainer.

The above comparative analysis of the Su-30MKI’s combat performance and technical characteristics demonstrate that this aircraft is capable of attaining air superiority, repulsing massive air raids, supporting combat actions of other air groups, destroying a wide range of ground and naval targets, and executing various special missions.

The Su-30MKI can operate over short ranges and also fulfill autonomous long-range missions. Unlike the F-16 and F-18 aircraft, the Su-30MKI’s short-range operation will not reveal all its capabilities, yet its advantages here are still obvious. Hopefully, the above assessment will allow potential customers to evaluate the combat capabilities of the Russian fighter and its main rivals on the Asia-Pacific aircraft market.

Su-30MKI

[v2.5][09.Jul.2005][© VayuSena]

Su-30MKI is a long-range, high-endurance, heavy-class Air Dominance Fighter with multi mission capabilities. It is currently the most advanced version of Su-27 Flanker flying anywhere in the world. The Su-27, which was first produced in the Former Soviet Union starting 1982 is counted among the world's best fighter aircraft even without any upgardes; but some of the the technology and capability that the Su-30MKI boasts has absolutely no parallels across the world's air forces. The Su-30MKI gives its operator, the Indian Air Force, a capability that will remain unmatched by all rivals for the forseeable future.

This document has been divided into the following sections:

Evolution of the Flanker

Acquisition/Production Plans

The Su-30MKI

Airframe and Aerodynamics

Cockpit

Flight Control and Other Avionics

Radar

Weapons and related Avionics

ECM/Self Defence

Engines and Fuel System

Tactics

In the News

Dimensions and Weights

Evolution of the Flanker

World aviation today cannot be conceived of without the Su-27, a legendary aircraft. The Su-27 which formed the basic platform that has spawned countless derivatives has became the core of Russia’s combat aviation and Russian arms exports today. The Su-27 is seen as a befitting response by Sukhoi to the challenge of the West - the U.S. F-15 air superiority fighter.

In the fall of 1969, Pavel Sukhoi, head of the Sukhoi Experimental Design Bureau, launched the T-10 project at his own initiative. The designers faced a most challenging task of developing an aircraft that would surpass the U.S. fighter which had overall technological superiority.

On 20-May-1977, famous test pilot Vladimir Ilyushin took the Sukhoi T-10-1 for its first flight from the test center Zhukovski. However, before the aircraft could be put into series production it had to be drastically redesigned. There were very serious reasons for that - the designers of onboard equipment and missiles exceeded weight limits. The redesign work was headed by a design team woven around Mikhail Simonov.

The original Su-27 design was rejected

The Design Bureau and cooperating enterprises were set the task to find bold, unorthodox solutions in the project, and to improve every component of the plane, its onboard equipment and armament.

The Su-27 for the first time incorporated solutions proposed for integrated supersonic designs in the 1950s by brilliant aircraft designer and scientist Robert Bartini (1897-1974). Pavel Sukhoi used Bartini’s ideas in the T-10 design. This is why the Su-27’s load-bearing airframe features high lift, low drag, air flow down-suction throughout the wingspan, and shock-free air flow in the area blending wing and it is leading-edge root extensions. The Su-27 is the world’s only fighter in which leading-edge root extensions reduce, rather than increase, drag. These solutions, combined with perfect design and minimal structural weight, provided much space for fuel and equipment, ensuring an exceptional flight range on internal fuel.

The Su-27 markedly enhanced the Soviet Air Force’s combat potential. NATO immediately saw the difference. In the previous years, the SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft often flew into Soviet airspace over the Kola Peninsula to check readiness of the Soviet Air Defense. The Su-27, with its high flight performance and perfect multichannel avionics system, sharply changed the situation, intercepting SR-71 aircraft in Soviet airspace.

The F-16 fighter is considered by many as an American aerodynamic standard. However, this effort was clearly eclipsed by the remarkable qualities of the Su-27.

The real triumph for the Su-27 came in 1989 when it made its first public appearance at the world’s largest air show Le Bourget near Paris. It was here that the now famous 'Cobra' maneuver was premiered in the West. The pilot at the controls was Victor Pugachev - hence the Cobra is often called the 'Pugachev Cobra'.

A note on the designation 'Su-30MKI': 'Su' stands for a production fighter designed by the USSR/Russia's famed Sukhoi Experimental Designed Bureau. Su-30 derived from the Su-27UB, which is the twin-seat trainer-combat version of the Su-27. Therefore all Su-30 versions are twin seat (except for Su-30KI). 'MK' is a Russian acronym for Mordernised-Commercial (not 'Multirole') while 'I' stands for Indiski(India) in the Su-30MKI, while 'K' stands for Kitei(China) in the Su-30MKK. Names apart, there are many central differences between the Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI

* The sheer number of Su-27 variants is bewildering to say the least. Many developments have been made in 'parallel' over the decades, and hence there is no single timeline for the MKI. This space is not enough for discussing the many variants, and hence only some are discussed here.

The first Su-27 variant with TVC was a Su-27UB designated "T-10-16" or the "LL-PS" (flying testbed - flat nozzle), built by by Sukhoi in 1989.

The Chief Designer for the export Su-30MK is Alexcy Knyshev. According to Knyshev, the Su-30MK is capable of performing all tactical tasks of the Su-24 Fencer deep interdiction tactical bomber and the Su-27 Flanker A/B/C air superiority fighter while having around twice the combat range and 2.5 times the combat effectiveness (Sukhoi numbers).

Russia vigourously promoted the Su-30. It has made regular airshow appearances after its debut at Paris AirShow 1999. However, initially the displayed aircrat was a Su-27UB which only carried a wide variety of air to ground misles (which it could not launch). The weapons were KAB-500KR TV guided bomb, Kh-29T and Kh-59M. At that moment there was no Su-30M nor Su-30MK, only the Su-27PUs were renamed as Su-30 (probably for marketing purposes). The real prototype of Su-30MK was converted from a Su-27PU in 1996. The modification included enlarged fins, the addtion of 2 underwing pylons (now to 8) and the carnard foreplanes similar to those of the Su-35 (or Su-27M).

The Su-30MKI combines the featurs of the Su-37 (Left) and Su-30MK (Right) and adds many more enhancements

The Unstable Longitudal Triplane configuration in a Flanker was seen in the Su-35 or Su-27M. It is in limited service with the VVS-PVO and lacks TVC. TVC was added to the Su-35 and hence the Su-37 (#711) was born. On its debut at Farnborough in 1996, it stunned the world just like the Su-27 did in 1989. So great was its influence, that it stole the show from the Eurofighter, which also made its debut there. The Pilot was Yevgeny Frolov, Hero Of Russia.

The first twin-seat flanker with TVC and canards took off for the first time on July 1, 1997 at the hands V.J. Aver'janov. This prototype '#56' was later re-numbered to T-10MK-1, which was officially the first Su-30MKI prototype. The versions that were ultimately delievered to the IAF (SB019 onwards) bear the designation T10-PMK-01.

Acquisition/Production Plans

The SU-30MKI is the first Russian aircraft designed in collaboration with a foreign customer. It was born when the IAF decided to acquire the Su-30MK and include modifications according to its needs. Its competitor was the Mirage-2000-5, an excellent multirole aircraft in its own right. It had the advantage over the Su-30 given that the IAF was extremely satisfied with the results from the Mirage-2000H. However, the SU-30MKI was found to be a lot cheaper than the Mirage-2000-5, which ultimately proved to be the deciding factor.

The induction of the Su-30 into the IAF is a bit confusing for some. This is due to the fact that three different deals where signed, delays in the program and also due the fact that IAF has been operating Su-30s (since 1997) which are not Su-30MKIs but Su-30MKs. However, since they are being operated by the IAF, they are referred to as Su-30MKIs by some. Here Su-30MKI refers to the final version of the aircraft, and not those which saw service with the IAF since 1997.

On July 24, 1994 an Indian delegation headed by the CAS of the IAF arrived in Russia to evaluate the aircraft.

Deal I (30 Nov 1996) : The IAF signed a US $1,462 million (equivalent to Rs 5122 crore) deal with Sukhoi on 30 November 1996 for the delivery of 40 Su-30 aircraft and the associated equipment from the Irkutsk plant in phased manner, spread out over four years - from 1997 to 2000. The contract provided for setting up of a Service Support Centre in India which was to undertake extended second line repair tasks of aircraft, avionics, aero-engines and aggregates to avoid the need to despatch them to the manufacturer.

Under this original contract, Su-30s would be delivered to the IAF in four batches:

The first batch (Su-30MK-I) of 8 aircraft would be delivered in 1997. These were 'standard' Su-30s (a development of the Su-27UB) and contained 100% (probably) Russian components and are primarily sir-superiority aircraft only. These fighters were first delivered to India at Lohegaon AFS in March 1997. They were inducted into the IAF on 11 June 1997 by the then Prime Minister, Inder Kumar Gujral. These planes are currently in service with IAF with serial nos SB001 to SB008 in the No. 24 Hawks squadron based at Lohegaon AFS.

The second batch (Su-30MK-IIs) of another 8 aircraft would be delivered in 1998 and would be fitted with Sextant Avionique's avionics from France, liquid crystal multi-function displays (MFDs), a new flight data recorder, a dual ring laser gyro INS (inertial navigation system) with embedded GPS (Global Positioning Satellite), EW (Electronic Warfare) equipment procured from Israel's IAI (Israeli Aircraft Industries), a new electro-optical targeting system and a RWR (Radar Warning Receiver).

The third batch (Su-30MK-IIIs) of 12 aircraft would be delivered in 1999 and would feature canard foreplanes

The fourth and final batch (Su-30MKIs) of 12 aircraft would be delivered in 2000 and would add the AL-31FP turbofans.

The first 32 aircraft already delivered would then be upgraded to the Su-30MKI variant, in a phased manner. This plan was thought of because Su-30MKI would be the world's first of its kind, and not all technologies were completely developed in other Russian designs like the Su-35 and Su-37.

Deal II (September 1998) : The IAF decided to buy 10 additional Su-30Ks for US $277.01 million (equivalent to Rs.1187 crore) and thus bring the total number of IAF Su-30s on order to 50. These 10 were originally destined for Indonesia, but due to the financial crisis there Indonesia was unable to take delivery. The first 4 units were delivered in June 1999. These have updated electronic warfare suites, PGM (Precision Guided Munitions) capability and possibly updated radar. These planes are currently in service with IAF with serial nos SB009 to SB018 in the No. 24 Hawks squadron based at Lohegaon AFS.

IAF Su-30K

IAF was to take delivery the 2nd batch of aircraft(Su-30MK-IIs) in 1998. However this was postponed due to delay specifying the requirements for the advanced avionics (French,Israeli and Indian). In March 1998 the agreements were signed with the concerned firms. The crash of the first Su-30MKI prototype T-10PMK-1 ("blue 01") at the Paris airshow did not help matters.

Later it was decided to take delivery of full-standard Su-30MKIs directly and hence doing away with the upgradation and to avoid different grades of one aircraft in service at the same time. Also, the development of the Su-30MKI was nearing completion and first buying some airframes and then upgrading them is an avoidable hassle. Hence, all future deliveries would be Su-30MKIs. The first 4 Su-30MKI arrived in India, again at Lohegaon AFS in semi-knocked-down (SKD) form on June 22, 2002. After assembly,they were test flown initially by Russian test pilots on 25-July-2002. The first flight by an Indian pilot in India happened on 14-Aug-2002. The first 18 aircraft (8 Su-30MK-I and 10 Su- 30K) will be upgraded locally by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The upgrade is to be completed by 2004-2005.

Deal III (October-December 2000) : A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) was signed allowing the license production of 140 Su-30MKIs and in December 2000, the deal was sealed in Russia at the IAPO factory. The deal combines license production with full technology transfer and hence called a 'Deep License'. For instance, HAL Koraput will also produce 920 AL-31FP engines, while the mainframe and other accessories will be manufactured at HAL's Lucknow and Hyderabad Divisions. Final integration of the aircraft and its test flight would be carried out at HAL's Ozhar (Nasik) Division. The original plans called for the first Su-30MKIs from Nasik to be delivered to the IAF in 2004-05, with production increasing to a peak of 10 aircraft per year from 2007-08 onward at this rate the production would have stretched to 2017-18. At Air Force Commander's Conference held in Oct-2002, the Air Chief Marshal Krishnaswamy, asked the HAL to complete the project in 10 years. This was confirmed by N.R.Mohanty on 12-Nov-2002 while speaking to the press (The Hindu, 13-Nov-2002). Therefore, the new schedule would mean that a maximum of 14 planes per year will be churned out by HAL and hence finishing in 2013. The original costs of Rs. 20,000 Cr remained as it is, even though such an action is expected to raise costs. According to Mohanty, HAL planned to counter the inflation by "outsourcing in low and medium type jobs while the critical items will be HAL's own."

Deal IV (May 2005?) : It was originally planned that the 24 Sqn aircraft will be upgraded to the Su-30MKI Phase-III standard once the delivery is complete. However, the latest Russian offer is to replace these aircraft with newly built airframes at $270 Million in 2007. The reasoning being that some of the aircraft have already aged quite a bit - the first ones entered service in 1997. More importantly, the upgraded airframes would not have the same capability as the new airframes. The offer has reportedly cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council, but the exact status is not known at the moment.

End Result : IAF will eventually acquire a total of 190 Su-30MKI. Out of these 50 will be made in Russia by Irkutsk Aircraft Production Association (IAPO) while the rest will be produced in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Production might be increased if necessary. HAL chairman Nalini Ranjan Mohanty has said that the Indian-built Su-30s will cost only about $22.5 million a unit against the current import price of about $37.5 million [Financial Express, 10-Dec-2001].

The first Su-30MKI were delivered by IAPO on June 22, 2002 aboard an An-124. 2 more followed in the same month. The first batch of 10 Su-30MKIs were inducted into the Indian Air Force on 27-Sep-2002 at Lohegaon AFS where the No. 20 Lightnings was constituted. The Phase-III aircraft deliveries were completed by Dec 2004, when around the same time the first HAL assembled Su-30MKIs rolled out. By 2006 it is expected that Phase I and II aircraft will be up to the latest standard.

India's Defence Minister George Fernandes laid the foundation stone of a new HAL factory at Sunabeda (20 kms from Koraput, Orissa) on Dec 15, 2002. This brand new facility is licenced to produce 1200 AL-31FPs. It is said that the manufacture of the AL-31FP engine "involved 31 new technologies required to be adopted and mastered" (Outlookindia.com).

Is the development of the Su-30MKI complete? The originally envisaged goals for the program have been achieved with the delivery of the Phase-III aircraft. However, the development is not being frozen. Future updates are planned - including the airframe and radar (read below).

The Su-30MKI in the IAF

The induction of the Su-30 was'nt without its share of problems. The average servicibility of the 10 Su-30MKs fell to 69% during 1997-1998 and further reduced to 62% 1998-1999. Similarly, the average availability of SU-30K aircraft for operations also declined from six aircraft in 1997-98 to four aircraft in 1998-99, out of total strength of eight aircraft. This happened because the MoD did not order spares for the aircraft and the IAF was using spares supplied at the time of induction - supplied back in 1997. The MoD finally signed the general spares contract in January 1999.

Problems were multiplied due to the poor poduct support from the manufacturers. Apart from delivery of eight SU-30K aircraft during 1997 the manufacturer was required to supply 72 associated equipment like tyres, brake parachutes, specialist vehicles etc. valuing US $ 347.85 million, equivalent to Rs 1252.25 crore during 1997-2000 in a phased manner. The contract explicitly stipulated that equipment to be delivered by the manufacturer would be new, unused, of current production and serviceable. However, the a large percentage of the equipment delivered by the manufacturer between 1997 and 1998 was old, used, corroded, defective and unserviceable, though full payment had been made. For example, the specialist vehicles supplied were old, corroded and inoperable and others items like parachutes were torn and damaged. Aircraft tyres were found to have cut marks during initial inspection. The IAF made 48 claims from sukhoi but only 15 were cleared as of July 1999.

Today the IAF operates 3 squadron worth of Su-30s. The original No 24 Sqn (Su-30MK/K), No. 20 Sqn (Su-30MKI) and No. 30 Sqn (Su-30MKI). The No. 20's pilots and crews were initially drawn from the first Sukhoi unit i.e. No.24 Hawks with which it shared Lohegaon AFS. It was considered to shift 24 Sqn to Chandigarh or Halwara to make space for 30 Sqn. Both Chandigarh and Halwara airbases have experience in handling the Su-30 - it is here that they are based when required to make a flypast on India's annual Republic Day (Jan 26), Air Force Day (Oct 08) and other such occasions. Ultimately 23 Sqn was housed at Bareilly.

Being the first in the service to operate the type, the No 20's task is to develop the doctrine for the MKI’s capabilities and hence is scheduled with a lot of training flights. Indeed, while the 'basic' Su-30M in itself was a a big leap for the IAF, the learning process has to start all over again with the Su-30MKI.

Camouflage Scheme The 24 Sqn airframes (both K and MK series) are all painted in a very pretty blue sky pattern. Some of these these fighters have their numeric serial applied below the cockpit, which is not the practice in the other current aircraft of the Indian Air Force, and generally has never been. Only the Gnat/Ajeet and Vampire fighter aircraft ever carried the serial printed in a large size, but near to the exhaust, nowhere near the nose. The stylized Hawks insignia was also seen in the Su-30MKs at least initially, but it seems that some no longer sport it and it was never painted on the Su-30Ks anyway. Also unusual was the word Hawks in bright red beside the Hawk logo. Only few squadrons have their nicknames written on their aircraft. Such aircraft include MiG-21s of the Ankush sqn. Some 20 Sqn aircraft have a stylized Lightnings insignia, a very welcome change on IAF aircraft in the post-matt-grey era.

At least four airframes of the Su-30MK series were temprarily dressed up in a ceremonial tri-colour scheme. The Dharma Chakra was also painted on the aircrafts' 'backs'. Originally the Su-30MK/Ks had a light grey radome, but over the years some machines have been noticed with a darker shade of grey, though not black. (Pictures)

Untill recently, the IAF never had any uniform camoflage scheme for its fleet, and it appears it was left to the units to decide how their machines looked. This is the reason for the inconsistent paint scheme throughout the IAF. However, since recent times all aircraft and even ground equipment like trucks and tractors also sport the Matt Grey livery.

Some aircraft have been applied with a black coat of paint around the canopy area, to reduce reflection. Airframes identified with this paint are; SB023, SB024, SB035, SB040 and SB102.

Airframe and Aerodynamics

The Su-30MKI is a highly integrated twin-finned aircraft. The airframe is constructed of titanium and high-strength aluminium alloys. The engine nacelles are fitted with trouser fairings to provide a continuous streamlined profile between the nacelles and the tail beams. The fins and horizontal tail consoles are attached to tail beams. The central beam section between the engine nacelles consists of the equipment compartment, fuel tank and the brake parachute container. The fuselage head is of semi-monocoque construction and includes the cockpit, radar compartments and the avionics bay. Su-30MKIs also have a high percentage of composites used in the air-frame - rumoured to be 6% by weight.

The Su-30MKI aerodynamic configuration is an unstable longitudinal triplane. The canard increases the aircraft lifting effectiveness. It deflects automatically and allows high angle-of- attack flights. The integral aerodynamic configuration combined with thrust vectoring results in practically unlimited manoeuvrability and unique taking off and landing characteristics.

Stability and control are assured by a digital FBW. The canard notably assists in controlling the aircraft at large angles of attack (AoA) and bringing it to a level flight condition. The aircraft has a newly developed wing with increased relative thickness, accommodating a larger amount of fuel. The wing will have high-lift devices featured as deflecting leading edges and flaperons acting the flaps and ailerons. At subsonic flights, the wing profile curvature is changed by a remote control system which deflects the leading edges and flaperons versus the AoA (Angles of Attack).

The Su-30MKI will have a reinforced airframe in order to accommodate a weapons load of 17,650 lb (8,000 kg) compared with half that for the Su-30K, and the maximum takeoff weight is 38,800 kg versus 34,500 kg.

The term "super-maneuverability" was coined by Dr. Wolfgang Herbst, initiator of the USA's X-31 prototype program, in defining controllability up to 60° to 70° Angle-of-Attack with transients of 120° or more.

The Su-30MKI has no AoA limitations: it can fly at even 180 degree AoA and still recover. This high super-agility allows rapid deployment of weapons in any direction as desired by the crew. The addition of another seat means that the pilot is free to concentrate on flying the aircraft while the second pilot can engage targets.

Mikhail Simonov was stung by press criticism that this machine was appearing at airshows doing tailslides and Cobras without any underwing stores. So it was promptly fitted with a representative warload consisting of (from port wingtip) - AA-11, AA-11, AA-10, Kh-31P, 6 x OFAB-100-120 bombs on a MER fitted to the port lower intake, KAB-500KR on centreline pylon, Kh-29T on lower Stbd intake, Kh-59M, RVV-AE, AA-11, AA-11 and still did its full show routine! A similar performance was witnessed at an airshow where the Landing Gear could not retracted in a Su-37, but Yevgeny Frolov still went on do perform the show routine without any changes!

Planned for incorporation into the Su-30MKI fuselage on a progressive basis from 2006 through to 2017 on 114 of the 140 HAL-built Su-30MKI Mk3s are all-composite structures like wing spars and wing boxes, air intakes, fairing skins, fairing blocks, co-cured co-bonded fin and centre-fuselage components, elevators, rudder and its all-composite torque shaft, ailerons, belly fairings, landing gear doors, ceramic thermal barrier linings, and ceramic brake-pads. Interestingly, several such structures are currently being incorporated into the IAF's MiG-29B airframes as well.

Cockpit

The SU-30MKI employs extensive use of Sextant Avionique (now Thales Avionics) components in the cockpit. A total of 6 LCDs, 5 MFD-55s and 1 MFD-66 for displaying information and accepting commands are used. The six LCDs have a wide-screen, offer image-superimposing and are shielded to make them readable even in bright sunlight. All the flight information is displayed on these four LCD displays which include one for piloting and navigation, a tactical situation indicator, and two for display systems information including operating modes and overall operation status. The cockpit also retains some traditional dial displays as standbys.

There is some confusion regarding the HUD. While reports say MKI has VEH-3000 series Holographic HUD from Sextant Avionique, photographic evidence suggests Elbit Systems' SU 967. SU 967 has been designed for large cockpit fighter/attack aircraft and features a 28 degree FOV.

The aircraft is fitted with a satellite navigation system (A-737 GPS compatible), which permits it to make flights in all weathers; day and night. The navigation complex comprises of Thales Totem Inertial Directional System (INS) and short and long range radio navigation systems. It also has a laser attitude and a heading reference system. An automatic flight control system makes all phases of its flight automatic, including the combat employment of its weapons. Once the automatic flight control system receives information from the navigation system, it solves the route flight tasks - involving a flight over the programmed waypoints, the return to the landing airfield, making a pre-landing maneuver and the approach for landing down to an altitude of 60 meters, as well as uses the data supplied from the weapons control and radio guidance command systems to direct the aircraft to the target and accomplish the attack.

The communications equipment comprises secure VHF and HF radio sets, a secured digital telecommunications system, and antenna-feeder assembly. It mounts an automatic noise-proof target data exchange system, which provides for coordination of the actions of several fighter aircraft engaged in a group air combat. The voice radio communication with ground control stations and between aircraft is possible up to a range of 1,500 km in the Su-27SK, and the Su-30MKI should equal it if not better this. The Integrated Information System (IIS) allows the performance of a ground serviceability test of the entire equipment and the location of troubles to an individual plug-in unit. In case of an in-flight failure, the indicator of the integrated information system will provide the pilot with a text message about the failure and recommendations on how to correct it or will dictate further actions. The message is also duplicated by voice.

A two-pilot crew provides higher work efficiency (thanks to distribution of the aircraft handling and armament control functions) as well as the engagement in close and long range combats and the air situation observation. Besides, the same dual control aircraft can be used as a combat and training aircraft. Additionally, the integrated air-borne equipment enables the aircraft to be used as an air command post to control the operation of other aircraft.

In practice, the front seater is the pilot and the back seater is the "Wizzo", the WSO (Weapons Systems Operator). The pilot flies the aircraft and handles air-to-air and some ATG weapons, as well as countermeasures. The WSO takes care of the detailed aspects of navigation, ground radar mapping & target designation, setting up delivery solution for ATG weapons, designating for guided bombs/missiles, ECM, and so on. There are many tasks which overlap; either pilot or WSO can do the job depending on circumstances.

The crew are provided zero-zero KD-36DM ejection seats which have a slightly modified comm/oxygen interface block compared to the Su-27. Rear seat is raised for better visibility. The cockpit will be provided with containers to store food and water reserves, a waste disposal system and increased amounts of oxygen. The KD-36DM ejection seat is inclined at 30º, to help the pilot resist aircraft accelerations in air combat.

Flight Control and Other Avionics

For flight control, reliability and survivability, the aircraft has a FBW with quadruple redundancy. Depending on the flight conditions, signals from the control stick position transmitter or the automatic FCS will be coupled to the remote control amplifiers. Upon updating, depending on the flight speed and altitude, these signals are combined with feedback signals fed by acceleration sensors and rate gyros. The resultant control signals are coupled to the high-speed electro-hydraulic actuators of the stabilizers, rudders and the canard. For greater reliability, all the computers work in parallel. The output signals are compared and, if the difference is significant, the faulty channel is disconnected.

An important part of the FBW is based on a stall warning and barrier mechanism with an individual drive of its own. It prevents development of aircraft stalls through a dramatic increase in the control stick pressure. This allows a pilot to effectively control the aircraft without running the risk of reaching the limit values of AoA and acceleration. The stall control is accomplished by the computer of a signal limiting system, depending on the configuration and loading of the aircraft. The same system sends voice and visual signals, as the aircraft nears a stall condition.

An oft criticised aspect of Russian aircraft in general is their 'poor' servicebility. This is more of a perception, and in capable hands they can return more than satisfactory performance. The Su-30MKI does add some new features regarding this, including self-diagnostic software that will indeed make life a lot easier for the airmen!

For acquiring predictive maintenance capability, the IAF and Rosoboronexport FSUE have joined forces with South Africa 's Aerospace Monitoring And Systems (Pty) Ltd (AMS). Predictive maintenance means the on- and off-board processing of aircraft sub-systems data, resulting in an accurate, conclusive indication of the health and usage status of various airborne systems. The Su-30MKI Mk3's on-board health-and-usage monitoring system (HUMS) not only monitors almost every aircraft system and sub-system, including the avionics sub-systems, it can also act as an engineering data recorder. For the Su-30MKI Mk3, AMS was contracted for providing total HUMS solutions, starting with definition of the IAF's qualitative requirements, followed by systems provision (development and implementation), integration and support phases.

Methods have since been co-developed by AMS and the IAF for the following:

fatigue loading spectra;

fatigue analysis methods;

material fatigue behaviour;

fracture mechanics;

damage tolerance analysis and testing of redundant metallic aircraft structures;

fatigue crack growth analysis;

crack growth, residual strength analyses

aircraft structural integrity programmes;

ageing aircraft issue.

Indian Contribution

The Su-30MKI contains not only Russian, French, South African and Israeli Customer Furnished Equipment (CFE), but also a substantial percentage of Indian designed and manufactured avionics. They took six years to develop from start to MKI. Advanced avionics were developed by DRDO under a project code named "Vetrivale" (a Tamil name for the victorious lance carried by the youthful Lord Karthikeya or Murugan, a son of Parvati and Shiva) in close collaboration with the PSUs and the IAF. Indian avionics have been received and acknowledged enthusiastically by the Russian principals.

The 32-bit Mission Computer performs mission-oriented computations, flight management, reconfiguration-cum-redundancy management and in-flight systems self-tests. In compliance with MIL-STD-1521 and 2167A standards, Ada language has been adopted for the mission computer's software. The other DARE-developed product, the Tarang Mk2 (Tranquil) radar warning receiver, is manufactured by state-owned BEL at its Bangalore facility.

These avionics equipment have also been certified for their airworthiness in meeting the demanding standards of Russian military aviation. The cumulative value of such indigenous avionic equipment is estimated to exceed Rs. 250 lakhs per aircraft. Since the core avionics were developed by a single agency (DRDO) - they have significant commonality of hardware and software amongst them using a modular approach to design. This obviously results in major cost and time savings in development; it also benefits the user in maintenance and spares inventories.

The DRDO has gone a step further and come out with a new design of the Core Avionics Computer (CAC) which can be used with a single module adaptation across many other aircraft platforms. Thus the CAC which is derived from the computers designed for the Su-30MKI will now be the centre piece of the avionics upgrades for the MiG-27 and Jaguar aircraft as well. The CAC was demonstrated by DRDO at the Aero India exhibition at Yelahanka and attracted a good deal of international attention. Taken together with the systems already developed indigenously for the LCA (such as the Digital Flight Control Computer and HUD), clearly Indian avionics have a significant export potential in the burgeoning global market for avionics modernisation.

The navigation/weapons systems from the various countries were integrated by Ramenskoye RPKB.

Radar

The forward facing NIIP NO11M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated radar sighting system. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar (X and L Band, NATO D and I). The N011M can function both in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneusly while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial / GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. The aircraft has an opto-electronic surveillance and targeting system which consists of a IR direction finder, laser rangefinder and helmet mounted sight system. The HMS allows the pilot to turn his head in a 90º field of view, lock on to a target and launch the much-feared R-73E missile. The Sura-K HMS for the Su-30MKI has been supplied by the Ukranian Arsenal Company (the same also makes the APK-9 datalink pod for the Kh-59M).

The N011M radar has been under flight testing since 1993, fitted to Su-27M (Su-35) prototype '712'. It employs the same level of technology as the now abandoned N014 radar which was to have equipped Mikoyan's MFI "fifth-generation" fighter and was initiated by Tamerlan Bekirbayev. The nose of the Su-30MKI was modified (compared the Su-27) to accommodate the fixed antenna array and more avionics boxes. The first improved N011M radar for the Su-30MKI was flown on 26-Nov-2000. Note that the N011M is different from the N011 "Mech" radar: the latter is mechanical scanning and equips the No 24 Sqn aircraft.

Antenna diameter is 1m, antenna gain 36dB, the main sidelobe level is -25dB, average sideobe level is -48dB, beamwidth is 2.4 deg with 12 distinct beam shapes. The antenna weighs 100kg

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of detecting Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. The radar can track 20 air targets and engage the 4 most threatening targets simultaneously (this capability was introduced in the Indian RC1 and RC2). These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. For comparison, Phazotron-NIIR’s Zhuk-MS radar has a range of 150-180km against a fighter and over 300km against a warship. "We can count the number of blades in the engine of the aircraft in sight (by the NO11M) and by that determine its type," NIIP says.

The forward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation (+/-45 degrees vertical and +/-70 degrees horizontal have also been reported). N011M can withstand up to 5 percent transceiver loss without significant degredation in performance.

The Su-30MKI can function as a 'mini-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to atleast 4 other aircraft. This feature was first seen in the MiG-31 Foxhound, which is equipped with a Zaslon radar.

Radar Computers

Purpose > Facilitate automatic PRF selection of hostile targets moving at blind speeds

> Enhance tracking capability to 8 targets

Characteristics > 486 main processor

> 386 Summit processor

> ARINC 429 Interface

> Dimensions 32cm x 19cm x 19cm

> Weight 14 kg each

RC1 Functions > Interfaced to MCDP through ARINC and MIL-1553 BUS

> Interfaced to RC2 via high speed parallel Q bus

> Processes radar input and passes results to mission computer

RC2 Functions > Interfaced to PSP

> Interfaced to various radar devices and combat computer via Q bus

Ground surveillance modes include mapping (with Doppler beam sharpening), search & track of moving targets, synthetic aperture radar and terrain avoidance. To penetrate enemy defenses, the aircraft can fly at low altitudes using the terrain following and obstacle avoidance feature. It enables the pilot to independently find his position without help from external sources (satellite navigation, etc.); detect ground targets and their AD systems; choose the best approach route to a target with continuous updates fed to the aircraft navigation systems; and provide onboard systems and armament with targeting data.

According to Sukhoi EDB the Su-30MKI is capable of performing all tactical tasks of the Su-24 Fencer deep interdiction tactical bomber and the Su-27 Flanker A/B/C air superiority fighter while having around twice the combat range and atleast 2.5 times the combat effectiveness.

The N011M offers a quantum leap in technology over the earlier Russian radars. Small ground targets, like tanks, can be detected out to 40-50 km. The MiG-29, Su-27 and other fighters can be provided with a ground strike capability only if their radars can operate in the down-looking mode which generates a map of ground surface on a cockpit display (this mode is called the Mapping Mode).

N011M ensures a 20 m resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km. Coupled with the air-launched Brahmos-A AShM, the Su-30MKI will become an unchallanged platform for Anti-Ship duties. The Brahmos is a result of a joint collaboration between India and Russia and is a variant of the Yakhont AShM (which has not entered service).

N011M Bars supplied to the IAF have progressively updated capabilities. Future upgradation plans include new gimbals for the antenna mount to increase the field of view to about 90-100 degrees to both sides. New software will enable a Doppler-sharpening mode and the capability to engage up to eight air targets simultaneously. Additionally the capability of the world-best PJ-10 Brahmos missile will be incorporated. The Air launched version of the missile 'Brahmos-A' requires modifications to the airframe due to high weight. As many as three can be carried on the MKI, but only if the weight of the missile can be reduced. Untill then a capability to carry one Brahmos and two Krypton ("mini moskit") missiles is being worked on.

Enter the Irbis. By 2010, when the first totally-built Su-30MKI will roll out from HAL Nasik, it will be equipped with new, active phased-array airborne radar. Called the Irbis (Snow Leopard), it will replace the NO11M. Both the LRDE and Tikhomirov NIIP are co-developing the Irbis at a cost of US$160 million.

Aircraft Radar Remarks

Su-30MKI Phase-I N011M Mk.1 > Only Air-to-Air modes

Su-30MKI Phase-II N011M Mk.2 > Ability to engage targets with four R-77

> Ground mapping

> Ground/Sea target search and lock

> Integrated with Kh-31A and Kh-59ME

Su-30MKI Phase-III N011M Mk.3 > Russian C101 radar computer replaced by Indian processor.

> Ground attack mode with simultaneus air target search

> Integration with Rafael Litening pod

Su-30MKI N011M > 2007 debut

> New gimbals for the moving antenna: +/-100 degrees azimuth & elevation

> New computer: 180 km tracking range

Su-30MKI Irbis > 2010 debut

Weapons and related Avionics

The Su-30MKI combat load is mounted on 12 stations. The maximum advertised combat load is 8000 kg (17,600 lbs). All compatible Russian/Soviet AAMs and AGMs are available to the IAF, which infact has quite a large variety of these weapons. The RVV-AE is not being inducted into the Russian Air Force but have been bought by the IAF. The aircraft features the built-in single-barrel GSh-301 gun (30 mm calibre, 150 rounds).

Over 70 versions of guided and unguided weapon stores may be employed, which allows the aircraft to fly the most diverse tactical missions. Speculation is that the Su-30 can also carry a tactical nuclear payload, though only Jaguar and Mirage aircraft are known to be equipped for the role thus far.

The laser-optical locator system is advertised to include a day and night FLIR capability and is used in conjunction with the Helmet mounted sighting system. The Laser Guided Munitions will be employed in conjunction with the Rafael Litening pod. The APK-9 datalink pod is associated with the Kh-59ME.

The OLS-27 (Izdeliye 36Sh) is a combined IRST/LR device for the Su-27, similar to the MiG-29's KOLS but more sophisticated, using a cooled, broader waveband, sensor. Tracking rate is over 25deg/sec. 50km range in pursuit engagement, 15km head-on. The laser rangefinder operates between 300-3000m for air targets, 300-5000m for ground targets.

Search limits for the OLS-27 are ±60deg azimuth, +60/-15° in elevation. Three different FOVs are used, 60° by 10°, 20° by 5°, and 3° by 3°. Detection range is up to 50km, whilst the laser ranger is effective from 300-3000m. Azimuth tracking is accurate to 5 secs, whilst range data is accurate to 10m. Targets are displayed on the same CRT display as the radar. Weighs 174kg.

The OLS-30 (36Sh-01), is an improved version of OLS-27 developed by UOMZ with a vibration-proof receiver, micro-cryogenic system, improved service life and new software. Perhaps also has TV channel. Range 90km in pursuit, 40km head-on. Possibly the same as Izdeliye-52Sh.

Sample Weapon Configurations and Flight Profile depending on mission:

Air-to-Air Missiles Maximum Pcs

R-27R1 06

R-27P 02

R-27T1 02

R-73 06

RVV-AE 06

Air-to-Surface Missiles Maximum Pcs

Kh-59ME 02

Kh-31P, Kh-31A 04

Kh-29T(TE) 06

Kh-L 06

Guided/Smart Bombs Maximum Pcs

KAB-500KR, KAB-500 OD 06

KAB-1500KR, KAB-1500L 03

Unguided Projectiles Maximum Pcs

S-8KOM, S-80M, S-8MB 04 blocks (80 pcs.)

S-13T, S-13OF 04 blocks (20 pcs.)

S-25 OFM-PU 04

Unguided/Dumb Bombs Maximum Pcs

FAB-500T 08

BETAB-500ShP 08

ODAB-500PM 08

OFAB-250-270 28

OFAB-100-120 32

P-50T 32

RBK-500 bomb clusters with PBE-D 08

Incendiary tanks 3B-500

Other Maximum Pcs

APK-9 (Datalink Pod) 01

UPAZ-1 (IFR Pod) 01

Elta EL/L-8222 (RF Jammer) 01(?)

ECM/Self Defence

An integrated ECM system turns on the warning units that provide signals about incoming enemy missiles, a new generation radio recon set, active jamming facilities and radar & heat decoys. It also includes an electronic intelligence unit, a chaff and flare dispenser and a RWR system. The RWR system is an indigenous product developed by DRDO called Tranquil (Tarang Mk2). Tarang is already deployed in IAF MiG-21 Bison and MiG-27ML fighters. Phase-I and Phase-II aircraft have SPO-32 (L-150) Pastel radar-warning receivers and no RF jammers. Latest aircraft are compatible with the Elta EL/M-8222 EW pod and so are the older Su-30MK/Ks.

Engines and Fuel System

The Su-30MKI is powered by the Al-31FP (P for povorotnoye meaning "movable"), which is a development of the Al-37FU (seen in the Su-37 Terminator).

AL-31FP which is designed by the Lyulka Engine Design Bureau (NPO Saturn) is also different from Al-31F (by the same company). The Al-31F is the 'baseline' powerplant found in most Su-27 and its variants, and perhaps in the China's J-10 in the future and lacks TVC. The AL-31FP was only 110Kg heavier and 0.4 m longer than the AL-31F, while the thrust remains the same. Planes equipped with AL-31F can be upgraded to AL-31FP later on without any changes in the airframe. It is being produced now at the Saturn manufacturing facility at Ufa, Russia.

The Al-37FU (&lt;deleted&gt; stands for forsazh-upravlaemoye-sopo or "afterburning-articulating/steerable-nozzle") basically added 2D Thrust Vectoring Control (TVC) Nozzles to the Al-31F. 2D TVC means that the Nozzles can be directed/pointed in 2 axis or directions - up or down. TVC obviuosly makes an aircraft much more maneuverable. Al-31FP builds on the Al-37FU with the capability to vector in 2 planes i.e. thrust can be directed side-ways also. The nozzles of the MKI are capable of deflecting 32 degrees in the horizontal plane and 15 degrees in the vertical plane. This is done by angling them inwards by 15 degrees inwards, which produces a cork-screw effect and thus enhancing the turning capability of the aircraft.

The TVC nozzles will be made of titanium to reduce the nozzle's weight and can deflect together or differentially to achieve the desired thrust vector for a particular maneuver. The engine designers are also working to reduce the infrared signature for thrust settings below afterburner.

Also, the 2-nozzles can be vectored un-symmetrically, i.e. each nozzle can point at different directions independent from the other nozzle and thus multiplying the effect.The aircraft is capable of near-zero speed airspeed at high angles of attack and super dynamic aerobatics in negative speeds up to 200 km/h.

TVC allows the MKI for example, to rapidly loose speed and turn in any direction and fire its weapons. The complete range of maneuveres possible in the MKI are impossible on any other combat fighter in production. "We even made a corkscrew spin a controllable manoeuvre - the pilot can leave it at any moment by a single motion of the stick that engages thrust-vectoring and aerodynamic surfaces," says Sukhoi's earlier general designer Mikhail Simonov.

Two AL-31FP by-pass thrust-vectoring turbojet reheated engines (25000 kgf full afterburning thrust) ensure a 2M horizontal flight speed (a 1350 km/h ground-level speed) and a rate of climb of 230 m/s. The Mean Time Between Overhaul (MTBO) for the AL-31FP is given at 1,000 hours with a full-life span of 3,000 hours. The titanium nozzle has a MTBO of 500 Hrs.

The Al-31FP improves upon the Al-37FU in two ways:

Firstly, the Al-37FU cannot vector thrust in 2 planes unlike the Al-31FP.

Secondly, the nozzle drive connection is effected now from the aircraft fuel system and not from the aircraft's hydraulic system. The change-over to the fuel system, to control swiveling nozzles, enhances the dependability of the aircraft and its survivability in air combat.

There is no a strain-gauge engine control stick to change the engine thrust in the cockpit, rather just a conventional engine throttle control lever. The pilot controls the aircraft with help of a standard control stick which is positioned between his legs. On the pilot's right there is a switch which is turned on for performing difficult maneuvers. After the switch-over, the on-board computer determines the level of use of aerodynamic surfaces and swiveling nozzles and their required deflection angles.

Saturn/Lyulka General Designer Victor Chepkin confirmed to Piotr Butowski (Jane's) that work on a three-dimensional (axisymmetrical) TVC nozzle was underway but that it was not planned for the Su-37 in the immediate future. Other future engines from Saturn are Al-31FN and Al-41.

The Su-30MKI has a large range of 3,000 km without refueling which allows for autonomous operations that require high endurance. Also, an inbuilt In-Flight Refueling (IFR) probe that is retracted beside the cockpit during normal operation. The IAF has placed an order for six IL-78MKI Midas refueling aircraft. As of June 2003, the first IL-78MKI had been delivered to the IAF under the newly raised 78 Sqn. Another one was delivered within the next few months.

A normal fuel load of 5270 kg ensures a 4.5 hour combat mission, and the air refuelling system increases the flight duration up to 10 hours with a range of 8000 km at a cruise height of 11 to 13 km. Thus the endurance of the aircraft is limited solely by the human factor, hence the logic of going for a twin-seat fighter. Prior to the arrival of the IL-78MKI, the average duration of sorties was 1.54 hours varying from a maximum of 2.08 to a minimum of 1.45 hours*. Since the arrival of the IL-78MKI, IAF pilots have flown 10 Hr missions over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands from Pune.

Interestingly, the total time spent in air combat manoeuvre varied from a maximum of 22.04 minutes to a minimum of 4.01 minutes, with an average of 14.04 minutes. In percentage figures, in long duration sorties, the pilot spent 12.5 percent of the time on ACM as compared to the total duration of the sortie. These figures are from studies conducted in 1998 on the un-upgraded Su-30MK variants*.

* See Indian Journal of Aerospace Medicine 1998; 42(2): 6-9

The IAF in co-operation with the Defence Food Research Laboratories (DFRL) has designed "inflight meals" to provide nutrition to pilots flying long duration missions. IAF's Institute of Aerospace Medicine (IAM) personnel like Wg Cdr CK Ranjan and Wg Cdr AD Upadhyaya worked on these meals and their storage. The Mysore-based DFRL has developed nutritious coconut water and pineapple juice, besides ready to eat food like sooji halwa, ribbon and cheese sandwich and mince meat rice, packed specially for high endurance aircraft. The food is nutritiuos and is easy to eat in the cockpit environment, and the pilots can choose their meal.

Engines manufactured were adapted under the grades of fuel used in India.

Tactics

Many wrongly believe that the Su-27+ cannot perform all maneovres in combat load. To counter such talk designer Mikhail Simonov, at the 1994 Farnborough airshow, sanctioned a Su-30MK to perform the airshow routine with ordnance on all 12 pylons - a total of 7000 kg!! It did a complete fighter-like routine with this asymmetric load - including a tail slide!!.

In-Close, Stay-Close, and Kill-Close strategy is a way defeat the new generation of all-aspect, high-off-boresight missiles such as the R-73, Python 4, MICA-IR, and AIM-9X. Obviously one has to survive the transit from beyond visual range (BVR), to within visual range (WVR), to inside of minimum range. Once there however, both Western and Russian gun systems are capable of all-aspect, high crossing angle kills at ranges inside of 1500 feet.

Russian designers have stated that they believe that the key to dogfight supremacy rests in the pilot's ability to engage the enemy in any position relative to their own aircraft. While TVC permits post-stall maneuvering and pointing which are impossible in conventional aircraft, they are convinced that a rearward facing radar and missiles that can be fired in the aft-quadrant all join to make an unbeatable integrated weapons system.

In the News

In September 2003 and again in December of the same year, the local media reported that some of the AL-31F turbofans had to be overhauled prematurely, after completing an average of "700 Hrs", instead of the advertised 1000. The cause of this was described as "nicks" in the turbofan blades, and the whole squadron was reported to be completely "grounded". The IAF dismissed these allegations as only rumours, but admitted that some engines had developed these problems in their blades. Unfortunately, the accuracy of media reporting can be questioned considering that simultaneusly aircraft were appearing all over the country for aerobatic events in public events! In various interviews, IAF Chief ACM Krishnaswamy rejected the media reports as cynicism and stressed that blade nicks, which appear due to pebble ingestion, do happen and there is nothing unusual and specific to the sukhois. There were accompanying rumors that the IAF had even refused to accept a batch of SU-30MKI production, which were simply untrue.

In 2003 Malaysia signed up for the delivery of 18 Su-30MKMs for their air force. The Su-30MKM, also to be manufactured by Irkut Corporation, is described as being identical to the MKI, but lacks the Israeli components. It is not clear whether Indian or French avionics are included. Irkut has subcontracted the task of manufacturing the canards, stabalisers and fins to HAL. This contract is valued between 25 to 30 Million USD for HAL. These composite parts will be manufactured at HAL Nasik.

An eight-member Royal Malaysian air force team, led by the director of operations, major general Dato Azizan Bin Ariffin, visited the Lohegaon air force base in August 2003, to familiarise themselves with the training and maintenance activities of the advanced Sukhoi-30 MKIs. This is not the first time, however, that the IAF has offered assistance to RMAF. During 1994-95, IAF had conducted ground training on Mig 29 aircrafts for their Malaysian counterparts

In Feb 2004, an IAF-USAF DACT camp was held at Maharajpur AFS, Gwalior. Titled "Ex Cope India 2004"; it was the first time F-15s and Flankers faced off with each other under the public eye. The results were, much to the surprise of many, were heavily in the IAF's favour. Read more about this watershed event elsewhere on this site. Article and here

[ilyushin]

This link will help most people understand more about the fighter aircraft in question.

Personally , I am a fan of the Rafale and Mirage ( Omni Role Fighters). Thailand should consider these aircraft along with the Su-30 and F-16C &F-18E/F.

Link: http://www.answers.com/topic/comparison-of...ighter-aircraft

Fighter values.

Rafale More than €50m, depending on export sales

Typhoon Austrian version: '03 €62m

Mitsubishi F-2 US$ 100m

MiG-29 about '98 US$ 27m

Sukhoi Su-27US$ 24m

Sukhoi Su-30 US$ ~38m (Several variants)

Sukhoi Su-30K for Indonesia: '98 US$ 33m

Sukhoi Su-30MKI for India, highly specified version: '98 US$ 45m

Gripen about '98 US$ 25m

Ching Kuo initially large order put cost per unit at US$ 24m

F-15 '98 US$ 43m

F-16 late models about '98 US$ 25m

F-18 E/F model '98 US$ 60m

F/A-22 '03 US$ 152m, based on production run of 276 aircraft costing US$ 42bn

F-35 planned costs, based on version, in '94:

F-35A US$ 28m

F-35B US$ 35m

F-35C US$ 38m

[ilyushin]

Some photo references.

Su-30

F-16

F-18E/F

Mirage 2000

[sierra01]

Well above my pay grade but very informative to those that understand it, well done Ilyushin.

One of the bottom lines is the caliber of the pilot, a crap pilot in a wonder plane won't last 5 minutes, a top gun strapped into an average pair of wings would at least have fighting chance. How well trained are Thai pilots?

[h90]

thanks a lot for all that info:

a little off topic, Thailand might should consider to buy with its chicken some education instead of army toys...

This link will help most people understand more about the fighter aircraft in question.

Personally , I am a fan of the Rafale and Mirage ( Omni Role Fighters). Thailand should consider these aircraft along with the Su-30 and F-16C &F-18E/F.

Link: http://www.answers.com/topic/comparison-of...ighter-aircraft

Fighter values.

Rafale More than €50m, depending on export sales

Typhoon Austrian version: '03 €62m

Mitsubishi F-2 US$ 100m

MiG-29 about '98 US$ 27m

Sukhoi Su-27US$ 24m

Sukhoi Su-30 US$ ~38m (Several variants)

Sukhoi Su-30K for Indonesia: '98 US$ 33m

Sukhoi Su-30MKI for India, highly specified version: '98 US$ 45m

Gripen about '98 US$ 25m

Ching Kuo initially large order put cost per unit at US$ 24m

F-15 '98 US$ 43m

F-16 late models about '98 US$ 25m

F-18 E/F model '98 US$ 60m

F/A-22 '03 US$ 152m, based on production run of 276 aircraft costing US$ 42bn

F-35 planned costs, based on version, in '94:

F-35A US$ 28m

F-35B US$ 35m

F-35C US$ 38m

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[ilyushin]

RTAF pilots are good. Unfortunately they don't get enough flight hours and simulation. Training must be improved with technology transfers and muti-mission capacity Re-con, Int'l maritime patrols, EW, etc.... Good fly boys though.

The RTAF currently is knowledgeable with the F-16s. The F18 is a Navy bird.

To retool/program/organize for the backup wouldn't be worth at the momemt for the Su-30. The retooling, training, techo transfer, spares, vitals AOG support, new fighter role training/logistic/missions would cause melt down. Waste of time. Buy the F16s and have the most advanced fighter program in Asia. Go FMS with US.

Love the Mirage and Rafale from Dassualt. Following the steps of its famous grand old man Mirage Ⅲ & Mirage F1, Dassault Aviation Mirage 2000 is a multirole combat fighter of France. Mirage 2000 is a sample of the third generation modern fighters which didn't totally inherited the technology of US or Russia fighters. It became operational with the French Air Force in 1984 and has been selected by Abu Dhabi, Egypt, Greece, India, Peru, Qatar, Taiwan and the United Arab Emirates. Now Mirage2000 is one of the best fighters in the world as well as one of the most abroad used.

[OlRedEyes]

That loooong post sort of kills the thread? Maybe a link would suffice? More info than most ppl would want I think.

What's wrong with good ol' US technology? Can the F16 F18 knock anything out of the sky? Maybe a few Top Guns on this board have an idea. Is this Russian equipment as good as Thaksin thinks?

Personally I think it's not about what's the best at all... Question is will the 'mericans take chickens and rice in a barter?

[ilyushin]

Last long message ORE.

Thailand, its huge poultry industry stricken by bird flu, wants to pay for Russian weaponry with chickens, the Reuters news agency quoted the country’s prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra as saying.

Thaksin said he had ordered his ambassador in Moscow to offer Thai chicken for Russian weapons and that he would consult with military chiefs on what arms they wanted.

“Our chicken exports have been hit by bird flu,” Thaksin told reporters on Tuesday. “When we can’t sell in our traditional markets, we need to penetrate new markets by bartering. We can’t leave all this chicken in Thailand.”

Thailand, the world’s fourth biggest chicken exporter until the industry was ravaged by bird flu early this year, has never exported poultry to Russia.

But with the European Union and Japan, its biggest customers, barring imports of Thai fresh and frozen chicken, it has been offering incentives like cheap credit to Asian countries willing to buy Thai poultry.

Thaksin gave no hint on whether warplanes were on his Moscow shopping list, but Russia’s Vedomosti business daily reported on Wednesday that Bangkok wanted to buy at least six Sukhoi Su-30s worth $200 million.

It quoted a source close to Russia’s arms trade authority as saying Thailand, which has equipped its air force with U.S. fighters, had sent a defence delegation to Russia recently to Irkut, which has a licence to produce the Su-30.

Another company making Su-30s is state-owned Sukhoi Corporation, Russia’s top arms exporter, which forecasts 2004 sales at $1.5 billion and plans to export 40 fighters.

Su-30s, together with MiGs, form the backbone of Russia’s arms trade and go mainly to Southeast Asia, where Indonesia, Vietnam and Malaysia have long been buyers.

Boosting defence exports is part of President Vladimir Putin’s plan to revive the arms sector, but sales are still a tiny fraction of what they were in Soviet times.

Last year’s arms sales hit a post-Soviet record of $5.4 billion, mainly on strong demand from Southeast Asia. Fighter jet sales make up about two-thirds of Russia’s arms exports.

Agree the money should go to education.

Edited December 21, 2005 by ilyushin

[sleepyjohn]

This whole business is an outrage.

Whilst Thailand would never let it's air force disappear and therefore must buy something, who are they going to fight that they need an incredibly advanced plane like this, at $40m a go for the Russian and who knows what for the American version. Well who? The Burmese? Cambodians? Vietnamese? The Malays? the latter is the only one with any resources. What planes do they have?

Surely something along the lines of a "compact saloon" would do and make some decent and compassionate use of this money.

Here's what Malaysia's got:

I notice a couple of Dassaults...some Hawks which are usually trainers....aaaahhh they've got an unsure number of F16s...that must be the perceived threat. So would anyone with more knowledge of Thai/Malay relations care to comment?

Sleepyjohn

[OZONE]

Personally I think it's not about what's the best at all... Question is will the 'mericans take chickens and rice in a barter?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chicken and Rice for a fighter jet. hmmm let seee....hmmm

Not sure If I can make up my mind. Chicken and Rice sure is scrumpteous though

[opothai]

toxinomics

when leaving office ensure your own personnal wealth exceeds that of the country you have governed

and i think a bad idea

can he not buy some teachers with chickens, after all he is paying a poultry sum to most [ chicken feed ]

Edited December 21, 2005 by opothai

[cclub75]

SU-30 vs F-16C & F-18E/F

Hum... this is a very impressive report.

But maybe we should ask the first question : does Thailand need 30 jet fighters ?

To fight against the insurgents in the deep south ? To protect the country from the crazy generals clique in Burma ? Or maybe Vietnam would like to invade Thailand ? Or perhaps Laos has some views of "grandeur"...

I think everybody knows the answer : this idea is once again ridiculous.

Military always want new toy, and... commissions. Along with politicians.

[sriracha john]

and now....

let the back-pedalling begin...

Thailand Denies $500M Deal to Buy 12 Russian Fighter Jets

Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra denied a report by The Moscow Times daily that Russia signed a preliminary agreement to sell 12 fighter jets worth $500 million to this Southeast Asian state.

“It’s just a discussion, we haven’t agreed on anything,” Thaksin told reporters on Tuesday, Dec. 20, in between meetings of his cabinet in this city in northern Thailand. “I think that it’s a misunderstanding on the wording as there is no agreement to buy yet,” he said.

The Moscow Times daily said on Monday, Dec. 19, that Russia had signed a preliminary agreement on the sale of the fighter jets to Thailand, while the Interfax news agency also said that a definitive contract, involving barter trade, would be signed in mid-2006.

Defense Minister General Thammarak Isarangura Na Ayutthaya said the reports were “fabricated”, but added Thailand is in talks over the purchase of jets with Russia, Sweden and the United States. The latter has traditionally sold arms to Bangkok.

Thaksin said Thailand needs more technical details about a plan to possibly buy 12 SU-30 fighter jets, which was conditional on barter trade between Bangkok and Moscow.

“We have to continue our discussions and we have discussed in general terms that if we wanted to buy, we’d buy 12 of them by barter trade,” he said, quoted by the France Press agency. “There would be no broker and if there is any discount it should be in the form of extra equipment coming with the jets,” he added.

If the Russian purchase is agreed, Thailand will also upgrade its American-made fleet of F-16s, Thaksin said.

He said he believes Thailand will not have problems with the United States were Bangkok to buy Russian jets or aircraft from other countries. “It’s our right to buy from any country, and we have a right to buy from various countries,” the prime minister said, adding the government will make a final decision on the purchase by the end of the first quarter of next year.

[ilyushin]

Just like the 3 year old MOU I'm holding that the PM signed to purchase 2 An74-300s from the Ukraine. The Ukraine government asked me if the PM intended to proceed. I said " doubt it!" They are pissed off!

Edited December 22, 2005 by ilyushin

[h90]

Yes for that amount of chicken, Thailand could really make some nice schools or rent some theacher from Farangistan...

SU-30 vs F-16C & F-18E/F

But maybe we should ask the first question : does Thailand need 30 jet fighters ?

To fight against the insurgents in the deep south ? To protect the country from the crazy generals clique in Burma ? Or maybe Vietnam would like to invade Thailand ? Or perhaps Laos has some views of "grandeur"...

I think everybody knows the answer : this idea is once again ridiculous.

Military always want new toy, and... commissions. Along with politicians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sriracha john]

Just like the 3 year old MOU I'm holding that the PM signed to purchase 2 An74-300s from the Ukraine. The Ukraine government asked me if the PM intended to proceed. I said " doubt it!" They are pissed off!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You gotta get an agreement with the right guy and his name is Kongsak Wantana. He can get the Ukraine a solid deal.... for the right price.

I think everybody knows the answer : this idea is once again ridiculous.

Military always want new toy, and... commissions. Along with politicians.

As per above identity, in this case it's one and the same. The man who is making the corrupt kickback dollars from the deal is the former Air Force Commander-In-Chief (Military) and is now Interior Minister (Politician). He made a very nice transition to civilian life, hasn't he?

Interior Minister Kongsak Wantana yesterday denied involvement in an alleged scam to take a commission on the planned procurement of Russian fighter jets when he was the Air Force commander-in-chief.

Kongsak was reacting to the allegation by government critic Sondhi Limthongkul that he had suspiciously endorsed a Thai broker for the Bt35-billion deal, from which about Bt3.5 billion in commission could be spread around.

And what does the CURRENT Air Force Commander-In-Chief say about the deal??

He doesn't WANT them:

Air force chief prefers US-made F-16s, F-18s

The jet fighter controversy is putting air force commander-in-chief ACM Chalit Pukpasuk in a difficult situation. The government has indicated it backs the purchase of Russian SU-30 fighters while he prefers American-built ones. The general, who took office in October, has already made clear his stance, saying the Russian planes are too big and the air force does not need jets that are so fast.

''The government must heed what the air force needs. The air force will select only one type which meets our needs and propose it directly to the government. The prime minister will not pick the type,'' he said.

=============================

WOW... strong words there. Who thinks the good Air Marshall will last long in his position????

[ratcatcher]

The jet fighter controversy is putting air force commander-in-chief ACM Chalit Pukpasuk in a difficult situation. The government has indicated it backs the purchase of Russian SU-30 fighters while he prefers American-built ones. The general, who took office in October, has already made clear his stance, saying the Russian planes are too big and the air force does not need jets that are so fast.

''The government must heed what the air force needs. The air force will select only one type which meets our needs and propose it directly to the government. The prime minister will not pick the type,'' he said.

It sometimes seems as if nothing Thai politicians say really makes sense and yet here is a guy in a responsible position, head of The Royal Thai Air Force, saying that he believes that purchasing more U.S. F16's or whatever the number, makes more sense as the Air force technicians are familiar with US technology and equipment. It's called, I think, standardization and makes operations easier when it comes down to maintenance and training.

For a country that supposedly has no money to buy new toys for the boys, Thailand sure has big aspirations. What's the price in chicken & rice?

Well, as one earlier poster commented, "How long will this guy be head of the Air Force if he disagrees with His PoMpousness the P.M.?" His job is already on the firing line methinks. Tell the truth here and you lose your job even if what you say makes loads of sense and is actually true. I am sure in the eyes of intelligent Thais he has gained in stature.

[Richard W]

SU-30 vs F-16C & F-18E/F

Hum... this is a very impressive report.

But maybe we should ask the first question : does Thailand need 30 jet fighters ?

To fight against the insurgents in the deep south ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Serbia couldn't protect itself from the Kosovan Air Force. MiG-29s are quite good, and I understand Malaysia has some of the best, even if the Luftwaffe has been upgrading its.

Would you trust Thai governments not to drag the Malysian government in on the insurgents' side?

[ilyushin]

Royal Thai Air Force Commander-in-Chief ACM Chalit Pukpasuk is correct. I have met him several times concerning transport aircraft. Just prior to his advancement he was in charge of Air Combat for the RTAF. I would say he is knowledgeable and able to know the requirements

.

There is a good chance that PM Tox will replace ( submit) a former classmate for the position of Commandr next year as with RTA CnC too. He will certainly try.

The toys ( aircraft) are scheduled for consideration either additional F-16 ( current fleet with half life) undergoing FalconStar/Up mods and or change the entire fleet and program.

The F-16C/D Blocks 50/60 would keep the Royal Thai Air Force ready for any role it is committed to undertake either nationally, regionally or internationally.

PM Tox will feel some heat on this purchase ( barter trade). Either Su-30, Gripen, F-16 or F-18aircraft. Not easy.

Anyway these projects will take several years to mature and Tox might not be in the picture anymore. Worked on trainers, transport , rotors and fighter aircarft in the past here in Thailand. Always a requirement , lots of talk and expense with little done to make a deal happen. It's politics.

They actually should buy the An74-300 for transport aircraft and wait for the fighters. I can get 15-20 tons to a STOL airport or position pronto with these aircraft and they are also kickers. Push the cargo out the back while in flight.

Processed chicken instead of frozen chicken will work better and rice is always good as a by product in dry goods.

Edited December 23, 2005 by ilyushin

[cdnvic]

Nothing final on Russia jet deal

Published on December 23, 2005

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra denied yesterday that the government has decided to buy 12 Su-30 MKs from Russia, saying he had only signed a note of interest in the jet fighters.

The Moscow Times reported that Thaksin had quietly signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to secure the Su-30 purchase with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of the Asean summit in Kuala Lumpur recently.

Thaksin insisted Thailand had not signed an MOU but a record of discussion that states that if it buys the jets from Russia, the deal would be based on the barter of agricultural produce and would not involve any brokers.

Thailand has asked for rescue helicopters as an incentive if it decides to buy the fighters, he said.

“We have yet to discuss things in more detail,’’ he said.

Thaksin said that the objective was to break into Russia’s agricultural market. “If we do not have a barter trade, we will never be able to penetrate the Russian market.”

The PM strongly rejected a claim that the government was playing favourites by offering chickens in exchange for the fighters because a giant firm may benefit from the deal. Thaksin said the government was promoting community chicken farming by changing from open-air rearing to an enclosed system.

“Critics can only think in one dimension, but the government is changing our way of working.’’

Thaksin revealed that the government had got the United States to agree to a barter trade deal to upgrade Thailand’s existing F16 squadrons so that the planes could be used for another 15 years. “The US agreed to the barter trade. If we did not have the agreement to barter trade with Russia, the United State would not have agreed to it,’’ he said.

Asked about a report by Air Force specialists that Su-30s had high maintenance costs, he said: “Who made the report? You ask them to speak out through the microphone. If they have clear evidence, I will believe.”

Air Force Commander-in-chief ACM Chalit Pukpasuk has already made clear his stance that the Russian planes are too big and the Air Force does not need jets that are so fast.

Chalit, who took office in October, is in a difficult situation over the jet fighter controversy since the government has indicated it backs the purchase of Russian Su30 fighters while he prefers American-built ones.

Sweden’s JAS 39 Gripen jets were among the alternatives, although ACM Chalit apparently favours American-built jets, including F16s or F18s, according to high-ranking Air Force sources.

Democrat Party deputy leader Alongkorn Polabutr said the PM should not decide to buy jet fighters from any country without heeding the Air Force’s advice. He should also clarify the allegation by Sondhi Limthongkul that the government demanded a 10-per-cent commission, or Bt3.5 billion, on a deal with Russia.

The Russian jets would require the Air Force to revamp its pilot and engineer training, while its aircraft maintenance requirements and weaponry have long been focused on American planes and arms, sources have warned.

“If the government makes the wrong choice, the victim will be the Air Force as we will have to face the consequences,” said one high-ranking source.

The Nation

[sriracha john]

Thaksin's woes continue....

So many problems on so many fronts......

"Everybody's out to get me"

"Nobody loves me"

"Tomorrow, I shall resign"

.... nice thought, huh?

[ovenman]

and now....

let the back-pedalling begin...

Thailand Denies $500M Deal to Buy 12 Russian Fighter Jets

Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra denied a report by The Moscow Times daily that Russia signed a preliminary agreement to sell 12 fighter jets worth $500 million to this Southeast Asian state.

There's something to be said for not counting your chickens before they hatch into fighter planes.

[Heng]

The current gov't will eventually have to learn (perhaps the hard way) that it is not wise to go against the wishes of the military. The generals are usually happy with their minor fiefdoms but they better not be left out without something to "wet their beaks" for too long.

[sonthaya]

I think you would be better off to stick with the chickens, rather than the Russian crap planes.

[ilyushin]

I think you would be better off  to stick with the chickens, rather than the Russian crap planes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree!

[Gumballl]

What??? Thailand is going to war with....???

oh, chickens and the bird flu. ok, i got it. Thailand definitely has to send those infected chickens out of the country, and Russia is a good of place as any.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Gumballl

[sierra01]

Could the Thai military fight it's way out of a wet paper bag, with or without super high tech jets, obsolete Swiss tanks (which they finally didn't buy) or unused and unloved aircraft carriers?

[Plus]

What about Russian side of the deal? They've got their regular chicken suppliers, I suppose. How are they going to react to shitloads of chicken coming from Thailand?

It's the government owned company that sells the jets, what about chicken traders? I suppose they are privately owned.