Lamyai Farmers

[Bluetongue]

We are producing from 140 trees this year and bringing up 250 more. On 3 plots and all our infrastructure is in place. Just wanted to know if there was any interest in comparing notes on techniques, fertilisers, prices, or just as an information resource etc. I'm in Pong Nam Ron East Thailand where there is a lot of this stuff. The only topic I could find here is several years old.

[andycrosby]

Its something we looked at way back but there not sweet when grown here in the north east and so very little is grown. The ones I have tried here are no where as good as the ones I used to get in Rayong. As most people who farm on this forum are from the north east I think you will struggle to find many people farming them, hope this helps

Edited April 12, 2012 by andycrosby

[gamini]

I started Lamyai farming 30 years ago near Chiangmai. I got Bt17 a kilo. Which is more like Bt40 taking into consideration inflation. Due to the high price millions of Thais started growing Lamyai. A few years ago the wholesale buyers price dropped to Bt4 a kilo. We had 200 trees.We started losing money. We cut all the rees down and grew "kratorn". Maybe the wholesale buyers price could be a bit more now. Maybe 7-8 baht a kilo. We did also try to get a better price by employing people to pick the lamyai and sort it, We then took it to the market ourselves where we sold it to the vendors at a slightly higher price, usually Bt. 8-10 a kilo. But after paying the pickers and transport costs we still only broke even..

[TPI]

Here in Phrae there are still many people who grow Lum Yai. While we have only 100 trees we still manage to get 3-4 tonne of fruit. While the fruit are not large the seeds are small so we get a corresponding amount of meat equal to the 35-40 mm fruit!

We don't trim the trees to get the fruit as this cuts down on production, while it makes harvesting a little harder we get a lot more fruit per tree!

We fertilise with Buff poo and we keep 3 buffalo's for that purpose, we don't use any other chemicals or sprays.

Please keep in touch!

[Bluetongue]

Ok. As I thought things are different in the north/northeast. Thanks for your responses though. This past year we harvested from 68 trees in Jan this year, I had 70 but one fell over and subsequently died and one died from (I think) waterlogging due to our new dam altering the way water ran off. We got a tad over 6 tons. 5.1 tons was in the category of a numbered size and we received 30b/kilo and there was just under a ton of small fruit for which we received 3b/kilo. If we could have timed our fruit ripening better and harvested in the peak season around November or the second peak around April we would have got 33b/kilo like most of my neighbours. The small fruit can be sold anytime to local processors who husk and deseed it then dry it. The going rate for that is 8b/kilo and that is exactly what the buyer did with it making an instant cash profit. The buyer supplied all the harvesting labour and we entered into a contract with them about four months out for which we received a deposit. It is my understanding that the mature large fruit is mostly exported to China. I can tell you that the fruit was all very sweet and juicy. We thinned it out when it was about the size of a small pea.. We had pruned the trees back earlier.

This year we have 72 trees in that plot due to renting another four mature trees on the boundary. Also have another 70 trees coming on stream for the first time in another plot. We have already fertilised for a first time with 15/15/15 and bio in a half half mix. There will be more. So far the rain has been erratic, one advantage of going for a November harvest is that you can reduce irrigation costs with rainfall. With no rain at all between November and January I irrigated for the whole three months at first on a four day cycle finishing with a 2 day cycle. The fruit really came on in size in the last month.

[indo]

Ok. As I thought things are different in the north/northeast. Thanks for your responses though. This past year we harvested from 68 trees in Jan this year, I had 70 but one fell over and subsequently died and one died from (I think) waterlogging due to our new dam altering the way water ran off. We got a tad over 6 tons. 5.1 tons was in the category of a numbered size and we received 30b/kilo and there was just under a ton of small fruit for which we received 3b/kilo. If we could have timed our fruit ripening better and harvested in the peak season around November or the second peak around April we would have got 33b/kilo like most of my neighbours. The small fruit can be sold anytime to local processors who husk and deseed it then dry it. The going rate for that is 8b/kilo and that is exactly what the buyer did with it making an instant cash profit. The buyer supplied all the harvesting labour and we entered into a contract with them about four months out for which we received a deposit. It is my understanding that the mature large fruit is mostly exported to China. I can tell you that the fruit was all very sweet and juicy. We thinned it out when it was about the size of a small pea.. We had pruned the trees back earlier.

This year we have 72 trees in that plot due to renting another four mature trees on the boundary. Also have another 70 trees coming on stream for the first time in another plot. We have already fertilised for a first time with 15/15/15 and bio in a half half mix. There will be more. So far the rain has been erratic, one advantage of going for a November harvest is that you can reduce irrigation costs with rainfall. With no rain at all between November and January I irrigated for the whole three months at first on a four day cycle finishing with a 2 day cycle. The fruit really came on in size in the last month.

how much money did you make percentage wise from your investment on a yearly base ?

and do you see the price of lamyai getting higher ?

my wife's family lives in your neighbourhood and is trying to convince me in putting money in their lamyai orchard

[Bluetongue]

Production costs accounted for about 30%. I hope to get this down as I gain experience and get economies of scale from more fruit. Capital costs (dam, irrigation, rent) if say defrayed over 5 years would be about 25% of this years return.

Price of lamyai getting higher-how long is a piece of string. I certainly hope it does but I'm sure the traders are pretty hard nosed. This year the price for uncontracted fruit-the spot price if you like got as high as 40baht. There are many traders and I judge that there is spare buying capacity now but it is very hard to say what things will be like 3 or 4 years out as like a lot of things here there seems to be a wave of new plots and may create an oversupply. But China will always be hungry right.

If they already have mature trees then you could expect an annual return, if they are talking about planting new trees then at least 4 years in some cases more. I have been quite surprised by the way some people here treat new trees, no water for one. I had one lady tell me that you dont put water on new trees as then you have to do it all the time, no wonder hers are taking 6 or 7 years. I have some that are just over 2 years old that will produce after 4 years.

[Bluetongue]

I started Lamyai farming 30 years ago near Chiangmai. I got Bt17 a kilo. Which is more like Bt40 taking into consideration inflation. Due to the high price millions of Thais started growing Lamyai. A few years ago the wholesale buyers price dropped to Bt4 a kilo. We had 200 trees.We started losing money. We cut all the rees down and grew "kratorn". Maybe the wholesale buyers price could be a bit more now. Maybe 7-8 baht a kilo. We did also try to get a better price by employing people to pick the lamyai and sort it, We then took it to the market ourselves where we sold it to the vendors at a slightly higher price, usually Bt. 8-10 a kilo. But after paying the pickers and transport costs we still only broke even..

As you say, a good thing and kill it. We'll see if it happens here. Ironically enough we have about 6 kratorn? trees that are on the edge of the house block, last year a buyer came and offered 1b/kilo for them, better than letting them fall on the ground I suppose. Correct me if I am wrong these are large baseball sized fruit with a thick peel a large pip and a fairly sour taste?

[wimpy]

I have been quite surprised by the way some people here treat new trees, no water for one. I had one lady tell me that you dont put water on new trees as then you have to do it all the time, no wonder hers are taking 6 or 7 years. I have some that are just over 2 years old that will produce after 4 years.

I have a Thai friend that has a large lamyai orchard in Chantaburi. He says it is good to plant in the dry season and starve the new trees for water. Says it causes the roots to grow deep in the soil.

[Bluetongue]

I have been quite surprised by the way some people here treat new trees, no water for one. I had one lady tell me that you dont put water on new trees as then you have to do it all the time, no wonder hers are taking 6 or 7 years. I have some that are just over 2 years old that will produce after 4 years.

I have a Thai friend that has a large lamyai orchard in Chantaburi. He says it is good to plant in the dry season and starve the new trees for water. Says it causes the roots to grow deep in the soil.

He may be right, without going into the whole saga some of my trees have inadvertently been treated that way. However I was also talking about subsequent seasons. According to the research I have read it is a drought tolerant plant. However the research also indicates watering and fertilising for young trees. I use water sparingly, bearing in mind that we still get thunderstorms and differing amounts of rain especially towards the end of the dry season. I know people are doing things differently, I see it all the time. There are people who plant new trees, do not install irrigation and then continue to plant mahn, or corn. There are people who plant trees then install irrigation but also plant bananas, rubber, macure or vegetables to name a few in the rows in between. I have done both these things, but on a smaller plot I have not and the trees are definitely growing quicker. I see some very large plantations obviously being done commercially and they all seem to irrigate and fertilise and generally speaking my observation is that trees treated in such a way are growing quicker than those who just leave them to the elements so to speak.

I had a 2 year old tree fall over and die after a big wind. So I exhumed it to have a look at the roots. At about a foot under the surface the main root which was over an inch in diameter branched off in numerous directions, mainly sideways but also down, with diameters of just under half an inch, it looked like a healthy root system to me. This tree was planted out towards the end of the dry season but I did not install irrigation until the wet season was over.

I think the main point I was trying to make is that young trees watered and fertilised will mature more quickly into fruit bearing propositions.

[somo]

Could you tell us the spacing required between trees or how many/rai.

I have about 5 rai close to water and have thought about planting some trees. Considering lime trees as well.

[Bluetongue]

Could you tell us the spacing required between trees or how many/rai.

I have about 5 rai close to water and have thought about planting some trees. Considering lime trees as well.

Anything from 20-40 per rai, I am doing about a 5 metre spacing with the idea of thinning out probably after about 10 years but in the meantime getting fruit. I do have a mature plot of about 70 trees on about 3 rai. People do space up to 10 metres but its an awful long time before a tree grows big enough to utilise that space. There does seem to be a bit of a line which lamyai farmers down here dont cross. We are on a tableland here but the lower parts of Chantaburi dont grow much lamyai at all, likewise as you progress towards Sa Kaeo you do see it but not nearly as much.

[bangkokburning]

I just saw this post and thought I could give you an FYI:

I have a friend who has a nice piece of land, mixed fruit but lots of Lamyai. Her daughter was even "Miss Lamyai" of Pitsaulok I believe. Anyway -

Some years the fruit is bumper and demand is low. Not a great deal of laborers up in her hills, Lamyai fairly labor intensive. They have left the stuff to rot a few years (Just mother and and old and broken father on the land - she lives in Pattaya and daughter in France with my friends husband).

The community has gone to rubber trees - en masse.

[Bluetongue]

I just saw this post and thought I could give you an FYI:

I have a friend who has a nice piece of land, mixed fruit but lots of Lamyai. Her daughter was even "Miss Lamyai" of Pitsaulok I believe. Anyway -

Some years the fruit is bumper and demand is low. Not a great deal of laborers up in her hills, Lamyai fairly labor intensive. They have left the stuff to rot a few years (Just mother and and old and broken father on the land - she lives in Pattaya and daughter in France with my friends husband).

The community has gone to rubber trees - en masse.

Thanks for the FYI. Yes a lot of the wisdom is that it is a year on/year off proposition. But around here the fruiting is annual although yields vary from year to year. We have plenty of labour, Cambodia is just down the road. I estimate up to several thousand of them (Cambodians) are in this district at any one time, more in harvest season. My comments were mainly directed to the poster (I dont know where he is) who commented that he may be interested, I was trying to alert him that it may not be such a good idea, somewhere where it isn't done a lot. In Pong Nam Ron/Soi Dao it is the number one industry certainly in value although suppose cassava and rubber would be up there somewhere.

Miss Lamyai Phitsanulok would have to be sweet I suppose.

[slapout]

The Lamphun are seems to have a huge lamyai farming area. They even have a winery there that uses lamyai to brew wine. I have met some of the folks there whose farms are being tended by third generation lamyai famers. Daw's seem popular as they do give decent production year after year where some varieties are every other year for a marketable crop.

I notice a lot of the established farms earn a good income selling young trees they have planted from vuttings from mature orchard.

Some use chemical to enhanse early flower/fruit, other go natural, others regulate water for stress and then bloom, etc. The price has been a problem in the past few years with local exception, but with good management I know servel paople who net 100,000 baht a rai on lamyai on 9 meter spacing, channel irrigation, chemical fertilizer twice a year, and luck with the weather and market.

[slapout]

The Lamphun are seems to have a huge lamyai farming area. They even have a winery there that uses lamyai to brew wine. I have met some of the folks there whose farms are being tended by third generation lamyai famers. Daw's seem popular as they do give decent production year after year where some varieties are every other year for a marketable crop.

I notice a lot of the established farms earn a good income selling young trees they have planted from vuttings from mature orchard.

Some use chemical to enhanse early flower/fruit, other go natural, others regulate water for stress and then bloom, etc. The price has been a problem in the past few years with local exception, but with good management I know servel paople who net 100,000 baht a rai on lamyai on 9 meter spacing, channel irrigation, chemical fertilizer twice a year, and luck with the weather and market.

Before someone calls me Pacos Bill, or troll note the 100,000 should be 10,000. I am note a good proof reader on my own post. Wonder how many took that as a realistic number? If they did do not get into farming.

[bangkokburning]

I wish I were young and bold enough to start a farm, I'd be doing avocado. Every Thai I have met loves avocado and what is not to love save for B49 each. You have to get the Haas variety and not settle to Fuerte and esp the large tasteless Asian variety.

"gadogado" :-))

[Gary A]

I have a Thai friend who lives in Loei province. She has several rai of lumyai and the buyer offered her 4 baht per kilo. She told him that she wouldn't bother to harvest them for that price. They could all just rot. She ended up getting 6 baht per kilo and this year she gave the trees to family member to tend. She says that with the pruning, weed cutting and the fertilizer, it just isn't worth the effort.

[bangkokburning]

What fruit farmers need is something like what the fishing industry has - sources near by for processing. Give up on the fresh stuff and go direct to juices and canning. Sell it abroad if you can't sell it here. Have to be huge market for cheap juices in developing countries.

Miss Lamyai is first year univ in France. So this young, attractive Thai woman speaks English with a lovely French accent. Sometimes even bar girls with no education get it right. Buddha bless em both.

Edited April 29, 2012 by bangkokburning

[Bluetongue]

I have a Thai friend who lives in Loei province. She has several rai of lumyai and the buyer offered her 4 baht per kilo. She told him that she wouldn't bother to harvest them for that price. They could all just rot. She ended up getting 6 baht per kilo and this year she gave the trees to family member to tend. She says that with the pruning, weed cutting and the fertilizer, it just isn't worth the effort.

It sounds like the buyer would send it to a processing place where they would peel it, take the seed out and dry it. I'm not sure what they then use this pulp for but it is local, will try to follow that up. This is what happens here to the small fruit. If you take it to the place direct you can get 7baht. There are four sizes of fruit which receive a higher price (this year 30-34 baht)and these are exported, the unsized fruit is sold locally. The buyer that came to my place was accompanied by a Chinese man who spoke no Thai. This particular company exports 500 tons per month I was told, and there are many many of these places here.

I agree at 4 baht a kilo we would not bother.