Did The US Invade Iraq In Order To Stop Terrorism?

[singa-traz]

SoCal, be honest with yourself. Don't tell us you still think the US administration really thought Saddam still had WMD, and they just made a mistake there.

They knew and they needed everybody to think Saddam still had, to gain support for War. Without WMD and the supposed 911 terrorist link, support for war would have been very difficult to build.

Why Blair agred to go with these lies and not France, Germany and Russia ... I don't know.

But you can't deny that this war is mainly about oil ... and if you re-read my posts, I never said or implied to steal it from the Iraqi ... but to control it's output. If you read the complete report (See link in previous post) you will understand the possible consequences for th US, of not controlling Iraqi oil.

Please note, it's not anti-american to highlight such lies.

And there are no "bigger idiot" ... just people defending different interests.

Now, I hope you really understand why US soldiers are giving their life in Iraq.

[singa-traz]

And now they woud like us to believe that the US Intelligence is not ... so Intelligent !

From the best independent news provider: FoxNews

"It confirms what I have said for a long period of time, that we were misled — misled not only in the intelligence, but misled in the way that the president took us to war," Kerry said on "Fox News Sunday." "I think there's been an enormous amount of exaggeration, stretching, deception."

[SoCal]

Singa,

1) Quit revising history. The entire world thought that Sadam had WMD. They all voted this way in the last passed resolution by the UN against Iraq.

2) THe Iraq war was not about oil. How many times do we have to go through this? It was certainly about egos, and I am sure that Bush wanted him gone the day he was elected.

3) Germany, France, and Russia were allied with this b*stard, and that is why they did not support the UN resolutions.

4) Villepin and Shroeder want to lift the arms embargo with China, against the other EU member wishes. All about MONEY.

Chirac would sell France for a dollar, and make her a whore, but god forbid a muslim can practice their religion. Yes, sell them weapons so they blow themselves to ######, but no freedom of religion in Frace.

C'est triste.

[Jeepz]

Pepe~

What a sad routine you have, pepe. You want Bush to win so that America can be brought to it's knees? You guys used to save that sort of rhetoric for the Germans during: 1. Franco-Prussian War 2. The Great War (WWI) 3. The Big One (WW2)

Until the war number one, many countries around the world modeled their armies after the French, but when the Prussians handed France their pantaloons on a stick, the German model became quite popular. Since then, the most notable gift of the French is, of course, the bikini.

Now, I for one, as red blooded male, must be forever in Frances debt for that bit of genius. I can wish France no ill. Over the last forty years, from semi-adulthood to almost tottering old age, I have derived a vast amount of enjoyment simply due to that one fantastic design.

So it is with a sense of sadness that I must consider that if you are symptomatic of current French "political consciousness", I'm going to have to quit thinking good things about all those wonderful contributions France has shared with the world. I will have to quit enjoying French wine when I drink it, thinking French women are so beautiful, and that French designers are the creme de la creme. I will have to school my tastebuds to detest that small glass of calvados and never to delight in French cheese (perhaps a bit of chirac?) and bread.

Okay, perhaps I can't really change my mind about all that France does so well. But pepe, you sound like a kid hitting the Terrible Two's. A change of diaper is recommended. I think you are simply pi**ing vinegar and are overdue for nap.

And just for general info, I would never wish death or destruction on your country, regardless of how much disagreement our respective countries seem to have currently.

Jeepz

[singa-traz]

Singa,

1) Quit revising history. The entire world thought that Sadam had WMD. They all voted this way in the last passed resolution by the UN against Iraq.

2) THe Iraq war was not about oil. How many times do we have to go through this? It was certainly about egos, and I am sure that Bush wanted him gone the day he was elected.

3) Germany, France, and Russia were allied with this b*stard, and that is why they did not support the UN resolutions.

4) Villepin and Shroeder want to lift the arms embargo with China, against the other EU member wishes. All about MONEY.

Chirac would sell France for a dollar, and make her a whore, but god forbid a muslim can practice their religion. Yes, sell them weapons so they blow themselves to ######, but no freedom of religion in Frace.

C'est triste. 

1) Well Hans Blix, who kind of knew a bit about WMD and Iraq had a different view on this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,962405,00.html

What he was saying: "Give me time to finish my job." ... and the US Administration did not want to give him time ... and they did not find more than him !

2) Well, if you say so. About ego ?

3) Allied with Saddam, nonsense ... maybe they prefered a different way to change the regime, certainly ... but allied with Saddam

4) Yes, they were looking to remove UN sanctions ... to sell weapon ... ?

As for the bashing of the French and the French president, I could not care less ... why don't you tell the forum, that from now, you will only eat Freedom Fries and not French Fries with your cheeseburger

At least, the post would qualify in the Jokes forum.

The only remaining weapon Saddam had:

Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets. This would display his personal power, enhance his image as a "Pan Arab" leader supporting the Palestinians against Israel, and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime.

PS: Your swearing skill is a lot better than your debating skill ... So sad indeed.

[SoCal]

Singa,

1) Bush wanted war, no doubt about it. That is why it is so surprising to see everyone (U.N./Sadam) playing into his hand. *The wording of the final resolution permited war. Everyone knew that, but signed on thinking they could stall later. This is where Bush thumbed his nose. **The U.N. agreed that Sadam was hiding information regarding his WMD program. Really no debate about any of this Singa.

2) Ego- yes, unfinished business, family enemy, tried to kill his father, something to prove, etc. I have no doubt that Bush wanted him gone.

3) Allied as a trading partner, and lender. No doubt Singa.

4) Yes, to sell weapons. Get off of Fox News , and go to BBC .

Mmmm Freedom Fries.

Actually apologize somewhat for my attack on France. I am not here to point fingers at any government including Thailand.

Singa, every government is self interested, and every government does stupid things. If you will be fair, then maybe I will even admit that we tend to do things on a larger scale, both good and bad.

I wish the arguments were fair and level headed. I guess even naively that the world could change. I guess it is all too much to ask.

The truth will set you free...or maybe help you better understand your bondage.

SoCal

[singa-traz]

1) Bush wanted war, no doubt about it. That is why it is so surprising to see everyone (U.N./Sadam) playing into his hand. *The wording of the final resolution permited war. Everyone knew that, but signed on thinking they could stall later. This is where Bush thumbed his nose. **The U.N. agreed that Sadam was hiding information regarding his WMD program. Really no debate about any of this Singa.

The fact that Saddam was hiding information about WMD, did not mean that everybody thought he still had WMD.

Why Hans Blix was not giving a chance to finish his job ?

Because, if Iraq had been cleared of WMD, invasion of Iraq would not have been supported.

Look how many time lies were told:

05/30/03

Intelligence leaves no doubt that Iraq continues to possess and conceal lethal weapons

George  Bush, US President 18 March, 2003

Saddam's removal is necessary to eradicate the threat from his weapons of mass destruction

Jack Straw, Foreign Secretary 2 April, 2003

Before people crow about the absence of weapons of mass destruction, I suggest they wait a bit

Tony Blair 28 April, 2003

We are asked to accept Saddam decided to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd

Tony Blair, Prime Minister 18 March, 2003

It is possible Iraqi leaders decided they would destroy them prior to the conflict

Donald Rumsfeld, US Defense Secretary 28 May, 2003

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.

Dick Cheney

Speech to VFW National Convention

August 26, 2002

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.

George "aWol" Bush

Speech to UN General Assembly

September 12, 2002

If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.

Ari Fleischer

Press Briefing

December 2, 2002

We know for a fact that there are weapons there.

Ari Fleischer

Press Briefing

January 9, 2003

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.

George "aWol" Bush

State of the Union Address

January 28, 2003

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more.

Colin Powell

Remarks to UN Security Council

February 5, 2003

We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.

George "aWol" Bush

Radio Address

February 8, 2003

So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? . . . I think our judgment has to be clearly not.

Colin Powell

Remarks to UN Security Council

March 7, 2003

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

George "aWol" Bush

Address to the Nation

March 17, 2003

Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes.

Ari Fleisher

Press Briefing

March 21, 2003

There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And . . . as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them.

Gen. Tommy Franks

Press Conference

March 22, 2003

I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction.

Defense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman

Washington Post, p. A27

March 23, 2003

One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites.

Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark

Press Briefing

March 22, 2003

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

Donald Rumsfeld

ABC Interview

March 30, 2003

[adjan jb]

To Jeepz,

Nobody wishes death and destruction on America. As far as I'm concerned I wish you humility.

For death and destruction, you don't need any f***ing terrorist because your arrogance will do the job (see Martin Luther King's speeches)

I have one question nobody has answered so far: why were the US targetted on 9-11 ?

[Georgie-Porgie]

1). Why Hans Blix was not giving a chance to finish his job ?

1). Because of weather conditions. There was short time period that was optimum for invading Iraq and Saddam kept trying to stall so that that time period would be missed. No intelligence agency, in any country doubted the existence of the Weapons of Mass Destruction, so it was deemed better to go ahead with the invasion, rather than waste more time and money for another whole year.

2). I have one question nobody has answered so far: why were the US targeted on 9-11 ?

2). The same reason that Nazi Germany killed millions of Jews, Gays and Gypsies. The same reason that a Russian serial killer murdered dozens of his fellow citizens. The same reason that innocent Israeli athletes were slaughtered at the Olympics. The same reason that a bomb exploded in Olympic Park in Atlanta; A bomb expolded in Bali. The same reason that black people were enslaved and young children are raped and murdered every day.

Evil.

[adjan jb]

"evil" is not a satisfying answer. Too simplistic.

[Boon Mee]

"evil" is not a satisfying answer. Too simplistic.

Hate to break it to 'ya Adjan, but the world IS full of Evil (and good) no matter what those ivory tower "professors" teach. It's nice to be idealistic but the real world will teach you otherwise.

Simplistic, not satisfying??? What's your answer? Bad 'ol America brought it all on to itself???

[adjan jb]

"evil" is not a satisfying answer. Too simplistic.

[adjan jb]

To Boon Mee,

I'm not idealistic. Anyway not since I turned 17 or 18.

I don't live in an ivory tower either. But you do when your only explanation to 9-11 is : evil.

I have a fist hand knowledge of the real world as I've already witnessed several murders and a war.

I don't have a satisfying answer to my question but I feel that "evil" falls short. Too easy, too simplistic. With such an answer, we get out of asking ourselves the proper questions.

I'm someone who likes to understand. Ignorance or doubt are not options for me.

I guess you think that I'm idealistic because in a previous post I said that I was an anarchist. My anarchism is much more cynical than idealistic.

I was an anarchist at 15, I'm still one at 40. In between I haven't experienced anything that could make me change my mind. The world I'm living in hasn't improved. Socialism, communism or capitalism haven't achieve anything so far. Our societies are going back to the dark Middle Age. They are becoming feudal once again: you are a lord or you are a peasant (there are more and more poor people and the gap between rich and poor is deepening).

Evil exists, right. I met it. But evil needs men and men always have motives.

[adjan jb]

To Boon Mee,

I'm not idealistic. Anyway not since I turned 17 or 18.

I don't live in an ivory tower either. But you do when your only explanation to 9-11 is : evil.

I have a fist hand knowledge of the real world as I've already witnessed several murders and a war.

I don't have a satisfying answer to my question but I feel that "evil" falls short. Too easy, too simplistic. With such an answer, we get out of asking ourselves the proper questions.

I'm someone who likes to understand. Ignorance or doubt are not options for me.

I guess you think that I'm idealistic because in a previous post I said that I was an anarchist. My anarchism is much more cynical than idealistic.

I was an anarchist at 15, I'm still one at 40. In between I haven't experienced anything that could make me change my mind. The world I'm living in hasn't improved. Socialism, communism or capitalism haven't achieve anything so far. Our societies are going back to the dark Middle Age. They are becoming feudal once again: you are a lord or you are a peasant (there are more and more poor people and the gap between rich and poor is deepening).

Evil exists, right. I met it. But evil needs men and men always have motives.

[adjan jb]

To Boon Mee,

I'm not idealistic. Anyway not since I turned 17 or 18.

I don't live in an ivory tower either. But you do when your only explanation to 9-11 is : evil.

I have a fist hand knowledge of the real world as I've already witnessed several murders and a war.

I don't have a satisfying answer to my question but I feel that "evil" falls short. Too easy, too simplistic. With such an answer, we get out of asking ourselves the proper questions.

I'm someone who likes to understand. Ignorance or doubt are not options for me.

I guess you think that I'm idealistic because in a previous post I said that I was an anarchist. My anarchism is much more cynical than idealistic.

I was an anarchist at 15, I'm still one at 40. In between I haven't experienced anything that could make me change my mind. The world I'm living in hasn't improved. Socialism, communism or capitalism haven't achieve anything so far. Our societies are going back to the dark Middle Age. They are becoming feudal once again: you are a lord or you are a peasant (there are more and more poor people and the gap between rich and poor is deepening).

Evil exists, right. I met it. But evil needs men and men always have motives.

[Georgie-Porgie]

OK, then answer this question? Why did Jack the Ripper butcher young women? I guarantee that you can't answer it satisfactorily.

You "intellectuals" have to sit around and rack your brains and ponder the universe and make up all kinds of nutty excuses for terrorists and murderers and pretend that they have good reasons for the evil things that they are doing.

Well they don't.

People like you provide them with false excuses, you furnish human garbage with lies.

Usually the simplest answer is the best.

They are evil.

[DaveYo]

The answers many of you seek lies in the minds of the people who do these things!!!! You can guess all you want and come up with numerous conclusions of this and that and why and for what reason. Understand

Until you are within the minds of another to see and to probe in understanding what makes this other person tick tock like the clock, you will never get the real answers you seek.

Therefore what has prevailed will again prevail at a later time from another and the cycle has over the course of time repeated itself to remind us of our past mistakes and ignorance.

Last of all, whatever the reasons one has might be a valid reason to them and to their counterparts, but to others this very same reason of validity is not acceptable. So where one draws the line in and by means of compromise is itself one of the challenges mankind struggles even to this day to meet and seek the peace which will never be found until Righteousness appears and makes such presence known to us all. At that time the keys to understanding each other shall perhaps be revealed to us all.

Trust me, that is when the real shock begins!!!!!!!!!!!! and that is when the real fear will set in to each and every one of us humans that are alive at that moment of time.

Daveyoti

[Boon Mee]

Right-On Georgie. The so-called "intelluctual class" sit around and "pontificate" where the debate is circular and nothing is EVER accomplished.

I remember reading a biography of Alexender the Great where, on his march into Persia (1st. time) he met with the Geordian Knot. Whoever was able to untie this knot held the keys to the Kingdom. 'Ol Alex said "F__k this s__t - pulls out his sword and chops the sucker through - marches in and takes over.

Now, I know I'm leaving myself open to attack with this "simplestic" example from the "intelluctuals" but, like what's-his-name in the movie "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" said: Sometimes you just gotta say - <deleted>!

Boon Mee

[Georgie-Porgie]

The answers many of you seek lies in the minds of the people who do these things!!!!  You can guess all you want and come up with numerous conclusions of this and that and why and for what reason.  Understand

Until you are within the minds of another to see and to probe in understanding what makes this other person tick tock like the clock, you will never get the real answers you seek.

Therefore what has prevailed will again prevail at a later time from another and the cycle has over the course of time repeated itself to remind us of our past mistakes and ignorance.

Last of all, whatever the reasons one has might be a valid reason to them and to their counterparts, but to others this very same reason of validity is not acceptable.    So where one draws the line in and by means of compromise is itself one of the challenges mankind struggles even to this day to meet and seek the peace which will never be found until Righteousness appears and makes such presence known to us all.  At that time the keys to understanding each other shall perhaps be revealed to us all.

Trust me, that is when the real shock begins!!!!!!!!!!!!    and that is when the real fear will set in to each and every one of us humans that are alive at that moment of time.

Daveyoti

You wasted an awful lot of space to say that you have no fukcing idea!

[DaveYo]

I tend to not agree that I have wasted any space Georgie. Only people with small pea brains like you would say this and not understand the meaning of what I said.

Good Luck to you.

Daveyoti