Its Not Racism, Its Tribalism,

[StreetCowboy]

They're worse than scousers!

SC

Edit: Is this "tribalism" or "why did I leave Teesside?"

Of course they are...they hung a monkey....even a scouser aint that stupid

If the monkey guilty, if it was a French spy then it deserved to suffer the full force of the law.

I can't believe you're still raking over that old case. Was the monkey a close relative?

SC

[onionluke]

They're worse than scousers!

SC

Edit: Is this "tribalism" or "why did I leave Teesside?"

Of course they are...they hung a monkey....even a scouser aint that stupid

If the monkey guilty, if it was a French spy then it deserved to suffer the full force of the law.

I can't believe you're still raking over that old case. Was the monkey a close relative?

SC

somepersons ung ae minky ?

[eek]

"Is it so hard to keep an open mind"

For me, i believe no, not really, but im reminded by others instead. For example:

-That im female (no problem there for me really though, except when its derogatory as in: "female drivers" . (For the record, ive never has that thrown at me though ) )

-That im a "western" female (apparently a bone of contention to some men here)

..Ok so its a bit of a dig (not at you blether, just a general dig at the forum.) Bit petty, and hope wont derail your topic. But i DO have a point in any case.

Anyway, i believe myself to be pretty neutral. I come from a mixed bag family background. Born in Scotland but with no Scottish "blood" and have lived in different continents. I would like to think i take people at face value, with very little pre-conceptions, (unless im needing to be wary regarding my safety). I dont think im tribalistic, BUT i have been guilty of making sweeping generalisations about nationalities. Hmm..so i guess ive just contradicted myself. Damn....

Edited April 21, 2012 by eek

[StreetCowboy]

....Hmm..so i guess ive just contradicted myself. dam_n....

Typical woman, eh?

[StreetCowboy]

They're worse than scousers!

SC

Edit: Is this "tribalism" or "why did I leave Teesside?"

Of course they are...they hung a monkey....even a scouser aint that stupid

If the monkey guilty, if it was a French spy then it deserved to suffer the full force of the law.

I can't believe you're still raking over that old case. Was the monkey a close relative?

SC

somepersons ung ae minky ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_hanger

Apparently one of Soutpeel's ancestors, as far as I can tell.

If you read the article, you'll see that the people of Hartlepool appear to have tremendous faith in their mayor Stuart Drummond, despite failure to fulfill his camnpaign promises. Sound familiar? Of course this thread is related to Thailand!

SC

[smokie36]

Look around your self and ask yourself, are you guilty of tribalism? are you guilty of creating divisions that dont exist? are you guilty of taking on history that has nothing to do with you or you had no part in making?

I do recall a thread awhile back where some guy asked sarcastically about Thai Inventions. Nearly all of the farangs that posted boasted about farang inventions even though they had absolutely nothing to do with it, but was happy to take credit for. Something to do with the inventor being of the same skin color. Yes, that was incredibly pathetic.

Correct, we Scots could bore you to tears about our fellow Scots inventing the television, telephone, penicillin, international capitalism, blah blah blah. The real lesson from these industrious men is to strive to improve yourself, and they should be held up as motivational examples, not as trophies.

By the way I get really fascinated by many of the topics and posts I see here on TV, some of our fellow members are incredibly well educated and experienced. There are times when it goes right over my head but I sit in awe and admiration of what I see.

Fascinating.

Its good to know I've at least one subscriber.

A good case of travel broadening the mind....I'm all in favour of that!

[Soutpeel]

Apparently one of Soutpeel's ancestors, as far as I can tell.

Nah....my ancestors originate from another "pool" further south on the west coast of the country.

[smokie36]

Well the topic has been side tracked, humour to release the tension, but for the bigger picture?

There are fanatics out there!

They fight for their tribe.

They excuse their vitriole and claim nationalism.

The muslims have taken over, well nearly and unless we act now the future is .........

I hope my team wins tomorrow; if they don't I"ll blame the ref!

Guesthouse is by far and away one of the most intelligent and insightful members on TV. His post was comical and designed to raise the ire of the Scottish membership, including myself.

Guesthouse will be along shortly to acknowledge that he dreads the break up of the UK as he knows that England was a non-entity fringe nation before unification with the Scots, and without the Scots they will fly off the map of international relevance.

Every intelligent Englishman knows that. To be honest with you though, we Scots wont take a blind bit of notice of them when the referendum comes along as their opinion is worthless.We will decide off our own backs whether to keep subsiding and supporting that failing region. I think we will decide to do so, as contrary to opinion we dont hate the English. You cant hate that which you pity.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

By the way, did you know that some ( many ) Englishman actually thinks their country still exists?? It disappeared off the world map in 1707 and some of these deluded souls still havent noticed.

They have a hosepipe ban already....it won't be long before council officials go around their houses removing all shower units.

Make a mental note to avoid the place between April and October....

[StreetCowboy]

Apparently one of Soutpeel's ancestors, as far as I can tell.

Nah....my ancestors originate from another "pool" further south on the west coast of the country.

Well they'd have hardly hanged a local monkey, would they?

That's the whole point of the thread...

Over the Pennines, and you might as well be from a different planet.

SC

Edit: Now I'm nervous you'll have the hubcaps off the train in my avatar

Edited April 21, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[buhi]

End of opic, a shame, but tribalism wins as always,even in defeat!

[Soutpeel]

Edit: Now I'm nervous you'll have the hubcaps off the train in my avatar

Remember the movie "Gone in 60 seconds"....bloody amateur's....could put your train on bricks in 5...

At this juncture not going to re-tell the joke about where F1 racing teams recruit their pit crews...

[buhi]

topic

[theblether]

topic

Okay, back on topic........I went and did a search on tribalism and I came across this interesting article from a recent Newsweek edition. It is well worth a read and I think it goes some way to explaining why people instinctively react to threats from other groups, and partly explains why the essentially non-racist among us will instinctively reach for a racial epithet when angered.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/04/01/biologist-e-o-wilson-on-why-humans-like-ants-need-a-tribe.html

It seems when your logical brain and instinctive brain collide the instinctive side wins.......so dont feel so guilty the next time you use a racial epithet directed at a Thai in front of your Thai wife, its evolution kicking in.

[StreetCowboy]

topic

Squirrelshit

(In response to the implied question "what has a handful of hazelnuts in every bite")

Although we all swear blind that we hate our neighbours, and we denigrate them at every opportunity, that antipathy would appear more genuine and convincing if we did not have so many English friends.

Generally speaking, though, I think we only really discriminate against others once we can group them into a category. A single Johnny Foreigner in a non-tourist area will be seen as an entertaining oddity, rather than an object of resentment, envy or dislike. But once you fill a street with immigrants; once they can talk amongst themselves in their own language - then they can be allocated to a 'foreign' tribe and become a source of discrimination.

Though I suppose the media stirs up a lot of resentment as well. Young hooligans think "to be a proper young hooligan I ought to be racist", though he has no idea why.

SC

[Trembly]

Uhm, interesting theblether mate, a bit hard to keep it Thailand-related though..

Your last line :" Is it so hard to keep an open mind ?"

Yes it's hard !

If you want to treat everybody the same, you'll probably end to be seen as a stranger by everybody.. My little experience so far..

The reality is that the really free minds have a hard time in this world

I agree with that, I am not proposing that we go through life in some hippie style peace and love happy clappy fashion, we still need to keep our wits about us.

The Thai angle comes from the fact that this country really has tribal issues, which are dealt with a bit haphazardly but on the whole Thailand ensures that the refugees have a safe home. We also know that there is nationalism afoot here, and a degree of racism.

I found it interesting that the young man mentioned was doing a dissertation on the subject based upon Rwanda, when in reality this country is a better case study. We discussed the effects of the troubles in Mynamar and how that was driving tribal people into Thailand, and that really got him thinking.

Got me thinking too.......unusual event that

It's a lot easier to see your own flaws in other people

SC

I think it was Peter Ibbetson (good book by George du Maurier) who once said something along the lines of : the most unpardonable in others is that which is secretly our own.

[maxme]

Well the topic has been side tracked, humour to release the tension, but for the bigger picture?

There are fanatics out there!

They fight for their tribe.

They excuse their vitriole and claim nationalism.

The muslims have taken over, well nearly and unless we act now the future is .........

I hope my team wins tomorrow; if they don't I"ll blame the ref!

Guesthouse is by far and away one of the most intelligent and insightful members on TV. His post was comical and designed to raise the ire of the Scottish membership, including myself.

Guesthouse will be along shortly to acknowledge that he dreads the break up of the UK as he knows that England was a non-entity fringe nation before unification with the Scots, and without the Scots they will fly off the map of international relevance.

Every intelligent Englishman knows that. To be honest with you though, we Scots wont take a blind bit of notice of them when the referendum comes along as their opinion is worthless.We will decide off our own backs whether to keep subsiding and supporting that failing region. I think we will decide to do so, as contrary to opinion we dont hate the English. You cant hate that which you pity.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

By the way, did you know that some ( many ) Englishman actually thinks their country still exists?? It disappeared off the world map in 1707 and some of these deluded souls still havent noticed.

For some reason I thought of the movie "Trainspotting" and somethin the main character contemplated over:

"Some people hate the English. I don't, they are just wanke_rs, we on the other hand are colonized by wanke_rs..."

I guess it take some redeeming just to realize some things

Edited April 21, 2012 by maxme

[mackes]

We all need to belong to one or more groups to identify ourselves and of course we will elevate

this group to be superior as we chosen it or been born into it. It's a way to verify ourselves.

As long as this group revolves around a common interest I see no or few problems but

when the joint substance of the group is political or religious and is about how people

should live or think it starting to be dangerous.

Nationalistic or tribal groups is per definition dangerous because the original purpose with

this kind of groups is to keep the tribe or the nation together with the same behavior and

outcast people that are different. This does certainly not fit into todays global world.

So what we ought to find is a common globalism, a way to act that is common for all us

human beings on the earth. I believe it's on it's way but it is a painful process where tribes

and nations have to abandon behaviors that's rooted since generations. But it is a must with

the advanced technique we achieved so far. If you not choose the eremite way of life.

We have already started to build larger effective units (US, EU etc.) that we finally can merge together to one

global unit. But as said before it is not painless and it will take time. Europe consist of 50 countries and in some cases

with different cultures within. And we all know about the pain it took to unite the US despite it was so young.

But the racism we will have to live with for a while. The issue is people that feeling threatened by other groups

coming into their world, But this is most often an educational or informational problem. Mostly the threatening

group adds more than it takes.

[theblether]

Well the topic has been side tracked, humour to release the tension, but for the bigger picture?

There are fanatics out there!

They fight for their tribe.

They excuse their vitriole and claim nationalism.

The muslims have taken over, well nearly and unless we act now the future is .........

I hope my team wins tomorrow; if they don't I"ll blame the ref!

Guesthouse is by far and away one of the most intelligent and insightful members on TV. His post was comical and designed to raise the ire of the Scottish membership, including myself.

Guesthouse will be along shortly to acknowledge that he dreads the break up of the UK as he knows that England was a non-entity fringe nation before unification with the Scots, and without the Scots they will fly off the map of international relevance.

Every intelligent Englishman knows that. To be honest with you though, we Scots wont take a blind bit of notice of them when the referendum comes along as their opinion is worthless.We will decide off our own backs whether to keep subsiding and supporting that failing region. I think we will decide to do so, as contrary to opinion we dont hate the English. You cant hate that which you pity.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

By the way, did you know that some ( many ) Englishman actually thinks their country still exists?? It disappeared off the world map in 1707 and some of these deluded souls still havent noticed.

For some reason I thought of the movie "Trainspotting" and somethin the main character contemplated over:

"Some people hate the English. I don't, they are just wanke_rs, we on the other hand are colonized by wanke_rs..."

I guess it take some redeeming just to realize some things

That would be a fair point............I can honestly say that we Scots do not hate the English but from time to time we can vilify them for our own shortcomings. The 1980s were a prime example, when Scotland was still instinctively socialist and England moved to the right under Thatcher. Her policies caused great resentment in Scotland and she became the Wicked Witch. If it wasnt bad enough that she decimated our heavy industry, ( using a Scotsman Sir Ian McGregor to do the job for her, rubbing salt into the wounds ) she also made the fateful mistake of trialing the Poll Tax in Scotland.

Okay, keeping it on topic in regards to tribalism, she was the leader of the big village next door, and she kept raiding and humiliating us, perfect material for allowing the Scots to group around a banner of visceral hatred for her and her tribe. What really infuriated the Scots though was whenever it came to General Election time the Scots effectively wiped out the Conservatives in Scotland, and were still ruled by Thatcher. That would drive anyone ballistic huh?

So Thatcher brought out all the ingredients required to inflame tribalism, and now the Conservatives are finding in impossible to rebuild in Scotland. The collective memory is too long and it was Thatcher that caused the second rising of the Scottish National Party.

By the way I watched the Thatcher movie on the way over on the plane, I thought it was excellent.

[pastitche]

...

...

Bloody Geordies stole most of it to keep their sheep penned; I would not dream of suggesting that was for sexual purposes

They thieve our wall, they thieve our stones, and then they shag our sheep? They're worse than scousers!

SC

Edit: Is this "tribalism" or "why did I leave Teesside?"

Having lived in Tyneside I really don't think the Geordies were to blame entirely - it was probably the Makems. I have it on good authority that there were no Geordies until a Scotsman shagged a sheep. Is that tribalism?

When I was a kid we had snowball fights with the school next door - that's tribalism. But I went home on their bus because my mates went to that school and I sang along with the sectarian songs. That's Scottish or maybe just what most of us are like.

"When I was a kid"

I'd have tried to keep that one quiet, when I was making sheepshagging jokes...Bah!

SC

OMG my secret's out - what a silly goat I am.

BTW Hartlepudlians are obviously neither racist nor tribalist if they elected a man with the very Scottish name of Stuart Drummond pretending to be a monkey

Edited April 21, 2012 by pastitche

[theblether]

We have already started to build larger effective units (US, EU etc.) that we finally can merge together to one

global unit.

If the EU has achieved nothing more than preventing another war from breaking out in Europe then it has done its job. I was at dinner with some Thai business people last night and they were saying that the ASEAN community will kick into a new level in 3 years time, and they expect far more competition in the labour market in Thailand, with an influx of foreign workers. One of them said " Good for my business, but bad for our young kids because they are too lazy ".

I do reckon these pan-continental organizations are forces for good though. The US should think radically and contemplate asking Mexico to be the 52nd state, ( Puerto Rico will likely become the 51st state after a plebiscite scheduled later this year ). The boost that would bring to the economy with the free movement of cheap labour would be astounding. The problem with that is that the white tribe in the US fear being overwhelmed by the Hispanic tribe, even though it is already a demographic certainty. The day of the white tribe being in power is coming to an end.

[maxme]

So what's the option from being overrun... Breed like rabbits? Doing the opposite what Chinese law makers demand, atleast four kids per household?

[mackes]

We have already started to build larger effective units (US, EU etc.) that we finally can merge together to one

global unit.

I do reckon these pan-continental organizations are forces for good though. The US should think radically and contemplate asking Mexico to be the 52nd state, ( Puerto Rico will likely become the 51st state after a plebiscite scheduled later this year ). The boost that would bring to the economy with the free movement of cheap labour would be astounding. The problem with that is that the white tribe in the US fear being overwhelmed by the Hispanic tribe, even though it is already a demographic certainty. The day of the white tribe being in power is coming to an end.

Yes, The United states do for sure have an exciting future. The Hispanic tribe in the US is inferior in power today, is that Tribalism or Racism?

[theblether]

The horse has already bolted maxme, the high birthrate Catholic Hispanics are outbreeding the White Protestants, so now we can add even more labels to divide into tribal camps.

What does it matter on the day that the first Hispanic US president is elected? Will it not be a validation that the social inclusion experiment worked? Or will the White Tribe fear it?

Does it not matter merely that said president is an outstanding American? Just as many other Hispanics are outstanding Americans, or will the thousands of years of tribal profiling cause a resentment that cannot be undone?

Tribalism.......fascinating

[maxme]

We have already started to build larger effective units (US, EU etc.) that we finally can merge together to one

global unit.

I do reckon these pan-continental organizations are forces for good though. The US should think radically and contemplate asking Mexico to be the 52nd state, ( Puerto Rico will likely become the 51st state after a plebiscite scheduled later this year ). The boost that would bring to the economy with the free movement of cheap labour would be astounding. The problem with that is that the white tribe in the US fear being overwhelmed by the Hispanic tribe, even though it is already a demographic certainty. The day of the white tribe being in power is coming to an end.

Yes, The United states do for sure have an exciting future. The Hispanic tribe in the US is inferior in power today, is that Tribalism or Racism?

Oh another north European know-it-all. I'm not saying you're totally of base but do enlighten us.

Edited April 21, 2012 by maxme

[theblether]

We have already started to build larger effective units (US, EU etc.) that we finally can merge together to one

global unit.

I do reckon these pan-continental organizations are forces for good though. The US should think radically and contemplate asking Mexico to be the 52nd state, ( Puerto Rico will likely become the 51st state after a plebiscite scheduled later this year ). The boost that would bring to the economy with the free movement of cheap labour would be astounding. The problem with that is that the white tribe in the US fear being overwhelmed by the Hispanic tribe, even though it is already a demographic certainty. The day of the white tribe being in power is coming to an end.

Yes, The United states do for sure have an exciting future. The Hispanic tribe in the US is inferior in power today, is that Tribalism or Racism?

Oh another north European know-it-all. I'm not saying you're totally of base but do enlighten us.

You have lost me here.....what are you talking about?

[mackes]

We have already started to build larger effective units (US, EU etc.) that we finally can merge together to one

global unit.

I do reckon these pan-continental organizations are forces for good though. The US should think radically and contemplate asking Mexico to be the 52nd state, ( Puerto Rico will likely become the 51st state after a plebiscite scheduled later this year ). The boost that would bring to the economy with the free movement of cheap labour would be astounding. The problem with that is that the white tribe in the US fear being overwhelmed by the Hispanic tribe, even though it is already a demographic certainty. The day of the white tribe being in power is coming to an end.

Yes, The United states do for sure have an exciting future. The Hispanic tribe in the US is inferior in power today, is that Tribalism or Racism?

Oh another north European know-it-all. I'm not saying you're totally of base but do enlighten us.

Ignore

[maxme]

Best to do that. IPADs typing schematics and me don't get along and I'm drousy coz of strong medication. Not the best combo.

[travelmann]

...

When I was young I would never have believed that I had a racist bone in my body, until - one day a black man seriously pissed me off and I wanted to include 'black' in my abusive response . I now realise that subconsciously I am still racist, even though I do my v best not to be.

That reminds me of a couple of entertaining (to my mind) if slightly off-colour (can I say 'off-colour'?) anecdotes...

So two colleagues were having a bit of a barney in the office about a road-rage incident on the way back from the factory - its a dreadful road, by the way, which encourages inconsiderate and rude driving - and one of them accused the other of being racist, with a specific quote, which elicited a quick and apologetic response

"Oh, I'm sorry, you mis-heard me. I said "Bloody idiot", not 'bloody Indian'"

He still wasn't mollified, though...

Another colleague recounted this tale from his days as office junior. A senior colleague asked him for an inkjet printer cartridge. "Black or coloured?" he asked, and found himself accused of racism.

Perhaps sometimes we look for offence where none was intended...

SC

Reminds me of the movie "Fletch" where they go for a "coon hunt" funny as hell hahahah oh yeah they mean Racoon in case you were wondering

[travelmann]

We have already started to build larger effective units (US, EU etc.) that we finally can merge together to one

global unit.

If the EU has achieved nothing more than preventing another war from breaking out in Europe then it has done its job. I was at dinner with some Thai business people last night and they were saying that the ASEAN community will kick into a new level in 3 years time, and they expect far more competition in the labour market in Thailand, with an influx of foreign workers. One of them said " Good for my business, but bad for our young kids because they are too lazy ".

I do reckon these pan-continental organizations are forces for good though. The US should think radically and contemplate asking Mexico to be the 52nd state, ( Puerto Rico will likely become the 51st state after a plebiscite scheduled later this year ). The boost that would bring to the economy with the free movement of cheap labour would be astounding. The problem with that is that the white tribe in the US fear being overwhelmed by the Hispanic tribe, even though it is already a demographic certainty. The day of the white tribe being in power is coming to an end.

Interesting comment but I have to agree, I find the Thais very lazy in general.

[StreetCowboy]

...

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...

...

BTW Hartlepudlians are obviously neither racist nor tribalist if they elected a man with the very Scottish name of Stuart Drummond pretending to be a monkey

I was anticipating moving to a new Chinese city, and my boss was briefing me. He said "aye, keep all that to one side, but the first objective is to find a decent pub, better than the tavern or the other one, is it the Drum and Monkey?"

"Drummond Monkey? Bit of an Orange place is it?"

"Sounds it, right enough...."

Anyway, the best we came up with was JBs on Shi Da Road, which served Belhaven Stout and top Scotch Eggs.

SC