Its Not Racism, Its Tribalism,

[theblether]

Its not often theblether gets annoyed however this time is an exception.

I was walking out my hotel last night and the lovely young man ( owners son ) that works at reception asked me to help him with his dissertation for his degree. The subject was nationalism, and the area he chose to study was Rwanda. He was highly disappointed when I pointed out that Rwanda was tribalism, not nationalism. I then had to go into a 30 minute re-write of the dissertation with the young man and explain to him how tribalism was a problem closer to home than he thought.

So last night when I eventually went out I bumped into guys I know from Scotland who were obviously shocked to see me, and delighted too. I share the feeling, however during the evening I saw tribalism at work again. Just about every "nationality" felt the need to express their "superiority", including my pals.

Right, this really annoys theblether, it annoys theblether that the Thai education system has good young men chasing their tails studying the wrong case studies. It also annoys theblether that the vast majority of people out there dont understand what is going on around them. This nationalism subject is a construct of your mind.

Look at the US as an example, we get people telling us all about the glorious history of the US, which is fine by me, but then when you ask them when did their family move to the US, you find out it was in 1930, 1940 whatever. The more accurate description of their history in some cases is that their family fought for the Germans in the first world war but just because they jumped on a boat they can disclaim their family history.

Its the same with a lot of the Jewish fraternity, many of whom are avowed defenders of Israel, but many more know that Jerusalem is in their heart, and the Promised Land is where they choose to settle. This love of man is shared by Islam, which teaches that you should live within the law of your chosen country and love your hosts for their hospitality.

Look around your self and ask yourself, and you guilty of tribalism? are you guilty of creating divisions that dont exist? are you guilty of taking on history that has nothing to do with you or you had no part in making?

Here in Thailand we can see the victims of tribalism and nationalism every day, and to be fair to the Thais they have taken the refugees in and given them protection from persecution. I salute Thailand for its humanity in doing so.

However theblether is getting annoyed with people creating divisions that dont exist. Get over yourself, we all all members of the human race, look for what unites us and minimize the divisions please.

[StreetCowboy]

Unnecessary digression deleted

perhaps there really is a first time for everything...

Edited April 20, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[necronx99]

He must have been a very lovely young man.

[theblether]

He must have been a very lovely young man.

He is a genuine hard working young gentleman that splits his time between being the assistant manager at his fathers very substantive, well known and busy hotel, along with doing post graduate studies. He sits behind the desk writing his university dissertations in Thai then rewrites them into English so that he can sharpen up his English skills.

There are a lot of young people like him in Thailand, holding down two jobs and studying hard. It was a case study for me last night bumping into my Scottish pals and watching the subject he was talking about playing out in front of me.

At the heart of the condition of man is the need to belong to a group, once you do so you work to ensure that group is the best, as belonging to the best group validates your self worth. The US is a prime example of just about every nationality and ethnic group cramming in and adopting the history of the nation. That is why patriotism and Americana are so important in the US, its an attempt ( worthy ) to bind people together under one flag.

The downside of it though is that many people forget their roots and history and instead of reaching out to the world in friendship, many parts of the world are regarded with hostility and suspicion. The US is the world in one country, and in a way it is the greatest attempt at social engineering in world history.

What got my goat last night was watching people manufacture differences, open minded people should not be doing that and they certainly should be aware that the problems come from the individual, not your race, creed, society, or even what football team you support. Its up to each one of us to conduct ourselves in a way that helps us all get along and understand each other.

Surely it cant be that hard to keep an open mind?

[Jingthing]

Excuse me, but all three things do exist:

Nationalism

Tribalism

Racism

Also, it is quite common for them to be all mixed up together.

I agree, however, there is only one race of our species, the human race, and we are ALL closely related. But the vast majority of humans don't have a clue about that, and world peace is nowhere in sight.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[theblether]

Excuse me, but all three things do exist:

Nationalism

Tribalism

Racism

I agree, however, there is only one race of our species, the human race, and we are ALL closely related. But the vast majority of humans don't have a clue about that, and world peace is nowhere in sight.

I totally agree that all three exist but they are a construct of man, and his need to feel superior. It is up to us as individuals to get over that need.

On the bright side there are a lot of people who are aware of the vicious and negative effects of the three constructs mentioned, maybe it will just take a while and a lot more education for it to seep throughout the world.

It would be interesting to know your family history Jingthing, you are most likely a fantastic case study in Internationalism at its most positive.

[buhi]

He must have been a very lovely young man.

He is a genuine hard working young gentleman that splits his time between being the assistant manager at his fathers very substantive, well known and busy hotel, along with doing post graduate studies. He sits behind the desk writing his university dissertations in Thai then rewrites them into English so that he can sharpen up his English skills.

There are a lot of young people like him in Thailand, holding down two jobs and studying hard. It was a case study for me last night bumping into my Scottish pals and watching the subject he was talking about playing out in front of me.

At the heart of the condition of man is the need to belong to a group, once you do so you work to ensure that group is the best, as belonging to the best group validates your self worth. The US is a prime example of just about every nationality and ethnic group cramming in and adopting the history of the nation. That is why patriotism and Americana are so important in the US, its an attempt ( worthy ) to bind people together under one flag.

The downside of it though is that many people forget their roots and history and instead of reaching out to the world in friendship, many parts of the world are regarded with hostility and suspicion. The US is the world in one country, and in a way it is the greatest attempt at social engineering in world history.

What got my goat last night was watching people manufacture differences, open minded people should not be doing that and they certainly should be aware that the problems come from the individual, not your race, creed, society, or even what football team you support. Its up to each one of us to conduct ourselves in a way that helps us all get along and understand each other.

Surely it cant be that hard to keep an open mind?

"Surely it cant be that hard to keep an open mind?"

I try, so do you, but what is an open mind?

You have just influenced my mind and that is fine because on this point I agree with you.

Now if you were to offend one of my prejudices, yes I am open minded enough to know we all have prejudices, then my reaction,unconscious,would be different and irrational.

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[mauGR1]

Uhm, interesting theblether mate, a bit hard to keep it Thailand-related though..

Your last line :" Is it so hard to keep an open mind ?"

Yes it's hard !

If you want to treat everybody the same, you'll probably end to be seen as a stranger by everybody.. My little experience so far..

The reality is that the really free minds have a hard time in this world

Edited April 20, 2012 by mauGR1

[theblether]

He must have been a very lovely young man.

He is a genuine hard working young gentleman that splits his time between being the assistant manager at his fathers very substantive, well known and busy hotel, along with doing post graduate studies. He sits behind the desk writing his university dissertations in Thai then rewrites them into English so that he can sharpen up his English skills.

There are a lot of young people like him in Thailand, holding down two jobs and studying hard. It was a case study for me last night bumping into my Scottish pals and watching the subject he was talking about playing out in front of me.

At the heart of the condition of man is the need to belong to a group, once you do so you work to ensure that group is the best, as belonging to the best group validates your self worth. The US is a prime example of just about every nationality and ethnic group cramming in and adopting the history of the nation. That is why patriotism and Americana are so important in the US, its an attempt ( worthy ) to bind people together under one flag.

The downside of it though is that many people forget their roots and history and instead of reaching out to the world in friendship, many parts of the world are regarded with hostility and suspicion. The US is the world in one country, and in a way it is the greatest attempt at social engineering in world history.

What got my goat last night was watching people manufacture differences, open minded people should not be doing that and they certainly should be aware that the problems come from the individual, not your race, creed, society, or even what football team you support. Its up to each one of us to conduct ourselves in a way that helps us all get along and understand each other.

Surely it cant be that hard to keep an open mind?

"Surely it cant be that hard to keep an open mind?"

I try, so do you, but what is an open mind?

You have just influenced my mind and that is fine because on this point I agree with you.

Now if you were to offend one of my prejudices, yes I am open minded enough to know we all have prejudices, then my reaction,unconscious,would be different and irrational.

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How did the prejudice get inside you in the first place? ( says I who also suffers from the same affliction ).

I suppose that is the root of the personal battle, having the self awareness to know that we are not perfect and attempt to mollify the things we know that are wrong.

So I suppose alongside being open minded we need to have self awareness too.

[Berkshire]

Look around your self and ask yourself, are you guilty of tribalism? are you guilty of creating divisions that dont exist? are you guilty of taking on history that has nothing to do with you or you had no part in making?

I do recall a thread awhile back where some guy asked sarcastically about Thai Inventions. Nearly all of the farangs that posted boasted about farang inventions even though they had absolutely nothing to do with it, but was happy to take credit for. Something to do with the inventor being of the same skin color. Yes, that was incredibly pathetic.

[theblether]

Uhm, interesting theblether mate, a bit hard to keep it Thailand-related though..

Your last line :" Is it so hard to keep an open mind ?"

Yes it's hard !

If you want to treat everybody the same, you'll probably end to be seen as a stranger by everybody.. My little experience so far..

The reality is that the really free minds have a hard time in this world

I agree with that, I am not proposing that we go through life in some hippie style peace and love happy clappy fashion, we still need to keep our wits about us.

The Thai angle comes from the fact that this country really has tribal issues, which are dealt with a bit haphazardly but on the whole Thailand ensures that the refugees have a safe home. We also know that there is nationalism afoot here, and a degree of racism.

I found it interesting that the young man mentioned was doing a dissertation on the subject based upon Rwanda, when in reality this country is a better case study. We discussed the effects of the troubles in Mynamar and how that was driving tribal people into Thailand, and that really got him thinking.

Got me thinking too.......unusual event that

[theblether]

Look around your self and ask yourself, are you guilty of tribalism? are you guilty of creating divisions that dont exist? are you guilty of taking on history that has nothing to do with you or you had no part in making?

I do recall a thread awhile back where some guy asked sarcastically about Thai Inventions. Nearly all of the farangs that posted boasted about farang inventions even though they had absolutely nothing to do with it, but was happy to take credit for. Something to do with the inventor being of the same skin color. Yes, that was incredibly pathetic.

Correct, we Scots could bore you to tears about our fellow Scots inventing the television, telephone, penicillin, international capitalism, blah blah blah. The real lesson from these industrious men is to strive to improve yourself, and they should be held up as motivational examples, not as trophies.

By the way I get really fascinated by many of the topics and posts I see here on TV, some of our fellow members are incredibly well educated and experienced. There are times when it goes right over my head but I sit in awe and admiration of what I see.

Fascinating.

[StreetCowboy]

Uhm, interesting theblether mate, a bit hard to keep it Thailand-related though..

Your last line :" Is it so hard to keep an open mind ?"

Yes it's hard !

If you want to treat everybody the same, you'll probably end to be seen as a stranger by everybody.. My little experience so far..

The reality is that the really free minds have a hard time in this world

I agree with that, I am not proposing that we go through life in some hippie style peace and love happy clappy fashion, we still need to keep our wits about us.

The Thai angle comes from the fact that this country really has tribal issues, which are dealt with a bit haphazardly but on the whole Thailand ensures that the refugees have a safe home. We also know that there is nationalism afoot here, and a degree of racism.

I found it interesting that the young man mentioned was doing a dissertation on the subject based upon Rwanda, when in reality this country is a better case study. We discussed the effects of the troubles in Mynamar and how that was driving tribal people into Thailand, and that really got him thinking.

Got me thinking too.......unusual event that

It's a lot easier to see your own flaws in other people

SC

[necronx99]

Uhm, interesting theblether mate, a bit hard to keep it Thailand-related though..

Your last line :" Is it so hard to keep an open mind ?"

Yes it's hard !

If you want to treat everybody the same, you'll probably end to be seen as a stranger by everybody.. My little experience so far..

The reality is that the really free minds have a hard time in this world

I agree with that, I am not proposing that we go through life in some hippie style peace and love happy clappy fashion, we still need to keep our wits about us.

The Thai angle comes from the fact that this country really has tribal issues, which are dealt with a bit haphazardly but on the whole Thailand ensures that the refugees have a safe home. We also know that there is nationalism afoot here, and a degree of racism.

I found it interesting that the young man mentioned was doing a dissertation on the subject based upon Rwanda, when in reality this country is a better case study. We discussed the effects of the troubles in Mynamar and how that was driving tribal people into Thailand, and that really got him thinking.

Got me thinking too.......unusual event that

It's a survival trait and is embedded genetically. Put 10 people from the same race/nation/tribe in a room,come back an hour later and there will be 3 groups.

[F1fanatic]

Excuse me, but all three things do exist:

Nationalism

Tribalism

Racism

I agree, however, there is only one race of our species, the human race, and we are ALL closely related. But the vast majority of humans don't have a clue about that, and world peace is nowhere in sight.

I totally agree that all three exist but they are a construct of man, and his need to feel superior. It is up to us as individuals to get over that need.

On the bright side there are a lot of people who are aware of the vicious and negative effects of the three constructs mentioned, maybe it will just take a while and a lot more education for it to seep throughout the world.

It would be interesting to know your family history Jingthing, you are most likely a fantastic case study in Internationalism at its most positive.

Nationalism, tribalism and racism are generally the cause of all wars and, obviously, abhorrent to the vast majority of people. But - how many times (in the UK) did I hear a sentence start "I'm not racist but...." People don't realise they're racist/tribalist etc., believing they are just insightful...

The problem is that we learn them when we are v. young (in most, if not all, countries), and it will be centuries before education is able to eradicate this.

When I was young I would never have believed that I had a racist bone in my body, until - one day a black man seriously pissed me off and I wanted to include 'black' in my abusive response . I now realise that subconsciously I am still racist, even though I do my v best not to be.

[StreetCowboy]

...

When I was young I would never have believed that I had a racist bone in my body, until - one day a black man seriously pissed me off and I wanted to include 'black' in my abusive response . I now realise that subconsciously I am still racist, even though I do my v best not to be.

That reminds me of a couple of entertaining (to my mind) if slightly off-colour (can I say 'off-colour'?) anecdotes...

So two colleagues were having a bit of a barney in the office about a road-rage incident on the way back from the factory - its a dreadful road, by the way, which encourages inconsiderate and rude driving - and one of them accused the other of being racist, with a specific quote, which elicited a quick and apologetic response

"Oh, I'm sorry, you mis-heard me. I said "Bloody idiot", not 'bloody Indian'"

He still wasn't mollified, though...

Another colleague recounted this tale from his days as office junior. A senior colleague asked him for an inkjet printer cartridge. "Black or coloured?" he asked, and found himself accused of racism.

Perhaps sometimes we look for offence where none was intended...

SC

[theblether]

Excuse me, but all three things do exist:

Nationalism

Tribalism

Racism

I agree, however, there is only one race of our species, the human race, and we are ALL closely related. But the vast majority of humans don't have a clue about that, and world peace is nowhere in sight.

I totally agree that all three exist but they are a construct of man, and his need to feel superior. It is up to us as individuals to get over that need.

On the bright side there are a lot of people who are aware of the vicious and negative effects of the three constructs mentioned, maybe it will just take a while and a lot more education for it to seep throughout the world.

It would be interesting to know your family history Jingthing, you are most likely a fantastic case study in Internationalism at its most positive.

Nationalism, tribalism and racism are generally the cause of all wars and, obviously, abhorrent to the vast majority of people. But - how many times (in the UK) did I hear a sentence start "I'm not racist but...." People don't realise they're racist/tribalist etc., believing they are just insightful...

The problem is that we learn them when we are v. young (in most, if not all, countries), and it will be centuries before education is able to eradicate this.

When I was young I would never have believed that I had a racist bone in my body, until - one day a black man seriously pissed me off and I wanted to include 'black' in my abusive response . I now realise that subconsciously I am still racist, even though I do my v best not to be.

Fascinating stuff f1, I bet you were kicking yourself for days after it. Was the potential use of the word "black" a descriptive or a term of abuse though? Was it a case of " say what you see, not what you think?"........hmmmm, interesting.

It's a survival trait and is embedded genetically. Put 10 people from the same race/nation/tribe in a room,come back an hour later and there will be 3 groups

another excellent point Necron, I read a study recently that the key number in human relations was 140. The study contended that we humans can handle close interaction with 140 people in our lives at one time, and after that we become overwhelmed.

In the past most villages throughout the world had a population of around this number, and when the village got too big people would split off and start there own settlement.

I wonder if there any social anthropologists among our members that can explain this.

[necronx99]

It's a survival trait and is embedded genetically. Put 10 people from the same race/nation/tribe in a room,come back an hour later and there will be 3 groups

another excellent point Necron, I read a study recently that the key number in human relations was 140. The study contended that we humans can handle close interaction with 140 people in our lives at one time, and after that we become overwhelmed.

In the past most villages throughout the world had a population of around this number, and when the village got too big people would split off and start there own settlement.

I wonder if there any social anthropologists among our members that can explain this.

140! I get pissed of if I have to deal with more than 4 or 5. Interesting about the villages but I would hazard it's more to do with how many people the resources withing walking distance can sustain and too much poo collecting in one place.

[F1fanatic]

...

When I was young I would never have believed that I had a racist bone in my body, until - one day a black man seriously pissed me off and I wanted to include 'black' in my abusive response . I now realise that subconsciously I am still racist, even though I do my v best not to be.

That reminds me of a couple of entertaining (to my mind) if slightly off-colour (can I say 'off-colour'?) anecdotes...

So two colleagues were having a bit of a barney in the office about a road-rage incident on the way back from the factory - its a dreadful road, by the way, which encourages inconsiderate and rude driving - and one of them accused the other of being racist, with a specific quote, which elicited a quick and apologetic response

"Oh, I'm sorry, you mis-heard me. I said "Bloody idiot", not 'bloody Indian'"

He still wasn't mollified, though...

Another colleague recounted this tale from his days as office junior. A senior colleague asked him for an inkjet printer cartridge. "Black or coloured?" he asked, and found himself accused of racism.

Perhaps sometimes we look for offence where none was intended...

SC

Or perhaps the 'senior colleague' was just an idiot or, simply didn't like the colleague and was looking for an any excuse to 'have a go' at him?

[theblether]

It's a survival trait and is embedded genetically. Put 10 people from the same race/nation/tribe in a room,come back an hour later and there will be 3 groups

another excellent point Necron, I read a study recently that the key number in human relations was 140. The study contended that we humans can handle close interaction with 140 people in our lives at one time, and after that we become overwhelmed.

In the past most villages throughout the world had a population of around this number, and when the village got too big people would split off and start there own settlement.

I wonder if there any social anthropologists among our members that can explain this.

140! I get pissed of if I have to deal with more than 4 or 5. Interesting about the villages but I would hazard it's more to do with how many people the resources withing walking distance can sustain and too much poo collecting in one place.

Could be that, expats are in an unusual situation as by definition they have moved away from their village, even at that its a handy little exercise to note down the people that you do interact with on a regular basis and/or qualify as being part of your life. I bet its a lot more than you think.

[necronx99]

It's a survival trait and is embedded genetically. Put 10 people from the same race/nation/tribe in a room,come back an hour later and there will be 3 groups

another excellent point Necron, I read a study recently that the key number in human relations was 140. The study contended that we humans can handle close interaction with 140 people in our lives at one time, and after that we become overwhelmed.

In the past most villages throughout the world had a population of around this number, and when the village got too big people would split off and start there own settlement.

I wonder if there any social anthropologists among our members that can explain this.

140! I get pissed of if I have to deal with more than 4 or 5. Interesting about the villages but I would hazard it's more to do with how many people the resources withing walking distance can sustain and too much poo collecting in one place.

Could be that, expats are in an unusual situation as by definition they have moved away from their village, even at that its a handy little exercise to note down the people that you do interact with on a regular basis and/or qualify as being part of your life. I bet its a lot more than you think.

Meaningfully interact? I get by with 1. Anything beyond that is grudging and out of necessity only.

[theblether]

Meaningfully interact? I get by with 1. Anything beyond that is grudging and out of necessity only.

Hmmm, you are not the grudging type Mr Necron........right, base it upon people that you would expect to see and speak to on a daily basis at first, so that will include work colleagues, your partner, her friends, your friends, and the lady that you talk to every day at the local restaurant.

Thats the primary list, then add to that the weekly contacts, for example the guy you meet at the pub every Friday, maybe your partners family, being an expat you probably dont see your own family so at this point you include the people that you make a point of phoning or skypeing every week. Thats the secondary list.

Add to that the people that you dont ordinarily interact with but they are part of your life, such as other family members that you keep an eye on on Facebook for example, people that you would feel comfortable calling up at any time and know that you would get a positive welcome. That will do, so three lists.

I bet you will be amazed at how many people are on it.

[necronx99]

Meaningfully interact? I get by with 1. Anything beyond that is grudging and out of necessity only.

Hmmm, you are not the grudging type Mr Necron........right, base it upon people that you would expect to see and speak to on a daily basis at first, so that will include work colleagues, your partner, her friends, your friends, and the lady that you talk to every day at the local restaurant.

Thats the primary list, then add to that the weekly contacts, for example the guy you meet at the pub every Friday, maybe your partners family, being an expat you probably dont see your own family so at this point you include the people that you make a point of phoning or skypeing every week. Thats the secondary list.

Add to that the people that you dont ordinarily interact with but they are part of your life, such as other family members that you keep an eye on on Facebook for example, people that you would feel comfortable calling up at any time and know that you would get a positive welcome. That will do, so three lists.

I bet you will be amazed at how many people are on it.

I'm on my way to the rugby right now so I may elaborate later. I'm functionally redundant at work and go in for an hour at about six am to check on some processes. I don't phone people. NOr do I visit. I have about a million books to read and a music collection to finish in the next 20 or so years and largely do not have the time nor the patience to waste effort interacting with most of the people I'm likely to bump into. The list is small by design

[StreetCowboy]

Meaningfully interact? I get by with 1. Anything beyond that is grudging and out of necessity only.

Hmmm, you are not the grudging type Mr Necron........right, base it upon people that you would expect to see and speak to on a daily basis at first, so that will include work colleagues, your partner, her friends, your friends, and the lady that you talk to every day at the local restaurant.

Thats the primary list, then add to that the weekly contacts, for example the guy you meet at the pub every Friday, maybe your partners family, being an expat you probably dont see your own family so at this point you include the people that you make a point of phoning or skypeing every week. Thats the secondary list.

Add to that the people that you dont ordinarily interact with but they are part of your life, such as other family members that you keep an eye on on Facebook for example, people that you would feel comfortable calling up at any time and know that you would get a positive welcome. That will do, so three lists.

I bet you will be amazed at how many people are on it.

I'm on my way to the rugby right now so I may elaborate later. I'm functionally redundant at work and go in for an hour at about six am to check on some processes. I don't phone people. NOr do I visit. I have about a million books to read and a music collection to finish in the next 20 or so years and largely do not have the time nor the patience to waste effort interacting with most of the people I'm likely to bump into. The list is small by design

You should count your imaginary friends as well, though, like me

SC

[necronx99]

Meaningfully interact? I get by with 1. Anything beyond that is grudging and out of necessity only.

Hmmm, you are not the grudging type Mr Necron........right, base it upon people that you would expect to see and speak to on a daily basis at first, so that will include work colleagues, your partner, her friends, your friends, and the lady that you talk to every day at the local restaurant.

Thats the primary list, then add to that the weekly contacts, for example the guy you meet at the pub every Friday, maybe your partners family, being an expat you probably dont see your own family so at this point you include the people that you make a point of phoning or skypeing every week. Thats the secondary list.

Add to that the people that you dont ordinarily interact with but they are part of your life, such as other family members that you keep an eye on on Facebook for example, people that you would feel comfortable calling up at any time and know that you would get a positive welcome. That will do, so three lists.

I bet you will be amazed at how many people are on it.

I'm on my way to the rugby right now so I may elaborate later. I'm functionally redundant at work and go in for an hour at about six am to check on some processes. I don't phone people. NOr do I visit. I have about a million books to read and a music collection to finish in the next 20 or so years and largely do not have the time nor the patience to waste effort interacting with most of the people I'm likely to bump into. The list is small by design

You should count your imaginary friends as well, though, like me

SC

I know of a newsgroup on the usenet that is populated solely y a single crazy guy talking to his 20 or so sock puppets.

[StreetCowboy]

...

From Streetcowboy: QUOTE

You should count your imaginary friends as well, though, like me

SC

ENDQUOTE (sorry - I lost the header a bit there...)

I know of a newsgroup on the usenet that is populated solely y a single crazy guy talking to his 20 or so sock puppets.

Do the sock puppets talk amongst themselves, as well? I'll bet the lint really flies on controversial stuff like darning or euthenasia. Do you practice apartheid for socks? One wash for whites, another for coloured? To be honest, I had never realised socks could be so controversial, but I'll be opening my drawers tonight for a bit of lively debate - can't be any worse than tv...

SC

[Kilgore Trout]

Uhm, interesting theblether mate, a bit hard to keep it Thailand-related though..

Your last line :" Is it so hard to keep an open mind ?"

Yes it's hard !

If you want to treat everybody the same, you'll probably end to be seen as a stranger by everybody.. My little experience so far..

The reality is that the really free minds have a hard time in this world

I agree with that, I am not proposing that we go through life in some hippie style peace and love happy clappy fashion, we still need to keep our wits about us.

The Thai angle comes from the fact that this country really has tribal issues, which are dealt with a bit haphazardly but on the whole Thailand ensures that the refugees have a safe home. We also know that there is nationalism afoot here, and a degree of racism.

I found it interesting that the young man mentioned was doing a dissertation on the subject based upon Rwanda, when in reality this country is a better case study. We discussed the effects of the troubles in Mynamar and how that was driving tribal people into Thailand, and that really got him thinking.

Got me thinking too.......unusual event that

Haven't the Thais, as a matter of policy, been sending hmong refugees back to Laos where they are being persocuted?

[StreetCowboy]

Uhm, interesting theblether mate, a bit hard to keep it Thailand-related though..

Your last line :" Is it so hard to keep an open mind ?"

Yes it's hard !

If you want to treat everybody the same, you'll probably end to be seen as a stranger by everybody.. My little experience so far..

The reality is that the really free minds have a hard time in this world

I agree with that, I am not proposing that we go through life in some hippie style peace and love happy clappy fashion, we still need to keep our wits about us.

The Thai angle comes from the fact that this country really has tribal issues, which are dealt with a bit haphazardly but on the whole Thailand ensures that the refugees have a safe home. We also know that there is nationalism afoot here, and a degree of racism.

I found it interesting that the young man mentioned was doing a dissertation on the subject based upon Rwanda, when in reality this country is a better case study. We discussed the effects of the troubles in Mynamar and how that was driving tribal people into Thailand, and that really got him thinking.

Got me thinking too.......unusual event that

Haven't the Thais, as a matter of policy, been sending hmong refugees back to Laos where they are being persocuted?

When you say "the Thais" do you mean all Thais, or some sub-set of all Thais? Perhaps those that live in Thailand? Perhaps th Thai government? Perhaps some groups within the Thai Immigration Department, acting on behalf of the Thai Government, or perhaps acting without the sanction of the Thai goernment...

I don't have an axe to grind in that race (some woul say there's no such thing as race, though Bernie Ecclestone might disagree), but I just highlight that as an example of how imprecise language can be used to engender prejudice and encourage an "Us and Them" mentality, which stood us in such good stead at Murrayfield a few weeks ago. In fact, it reminds me about a joke which I am sure you all know regarding a French lad ... anyway, I'll not bore you with that digression.

Anyway, I am sure that NewlyMintedThai does not repatriate Hmong to be persecuted... nor Samran, though some of their compatriots might be involved in such activities.

SC

[pastitche]

Uhm, interesting theblether mate, a bit hard to keep it Thailand-related though..

Your last line :" Is it so hard to keep an open mind ?"

Yes it's hard !

If you want to treat everybody the same, you'll probably end to be seen as a stranger by everybody.. My little experience so far..

The reality is that the really free minds have a hard time in this world

I agree with that, I am not proposing that we go through life in some hippie style peace and love happy clappy fashion, we still need to keep our wits about us.

The Thai angle comes from the fact that this country really has tribal issues, which are dealt with a bit haphazardly but on the whole Thailand ensures that the refugees have a safe home. We also know that there is nationalism afoot here, and a degree of racism.

I found it interesting that the young man mentioned was doing a dissertation on the subject based upon Rwanda, when in reality this country is a better case study. We discussed the effects of the troubles in Mynamar and how that was driving tribal people into Thailand, and that really got him thinking.

Got me thinking too.......unusual event that

Haven't the Thais, as a matter of policy, been sending hmong refugees back to Laos where they are being persocuted?

When you say "the Thais" do you mean all Thais, or some sub-set of all Thais? Perhaps those that live in Thailand? Perhaps th Thai government? Perhaps some groups within the Thai Immigration Department, acting on behalf of the Thai Government, or perhaps acting without the sanction of the Thai goernment...

I don't have an axe to grind in that race (some woul say there's no such thing as race, though Bernie Ecclestone might disagree), but I just highlight that as an example of how imprecise language can be used to engender prejudice and encourage an "Us and Them" mentality, which stood us in such good stead at Murrayfield a few weeks ago. In fact, it reminds me about a joke which I am sure you all know regarding a French lad ... anyway, I'll not bore you with that digression.

Anyway, I am sure that NewlyMintedThai does not repatriate Hmong to be persecuted... nor Samran, though some of their compatriots might be involved in such activities.

SC

Was it a joke about a French lad at Murrayfield?

[StreetCowboy]

...

Was it a joke about a French lad at Murrayfield?

Surely you remember the joke about the French lad who asks for an England shirt for his birthday?

If not, you must be the only one

EDIT

In response to your request below, I have posted an abridged version, wizout ze outrageouz French accents etcetera...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/544676-by-special-request/page__view__getlastpost

Edited April 20, 2012 by StreetCowboy