Any Parents With Experience At St. Andrews, Sathorn?

[minibot]

Hello, I've been following threads of discussions on schools. We're moving to BKK this summer-6 year old is

in Year 1 English National Curriculum school. Pattana and NIST came recommended- BUT,

are there alternates? A smaller school like St. Andrews-Sathorn. Does anyone have experience with it?How are

teachers there? Resources?Culture? Nationality mix? Thanks for your help!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

For non-Thais, IMO Patana and NIST are indeed top of the heap, ISB, Harrow, Shrewsbury and Ruamrudee are up there as well. From there I can't vouch for quality, the "international school" industry is a high-profit, high-growth one here, very few are non-profit BTW, and many many of them don't necessarily deliver good value for the fees charged.

A higher proportion of non-Thai students does usually correlate with quality academics IMO, but note that schools will count half-breeds like my kids as "international" even when Dad's mostly away from home and the kids speak Thai as their first language, or even Isaan from the maids and nannies. Also, if most of the "international" kids aren't native-English nationalities, likely better academics than Thai numbers, but still an issue in curriculum pacing compared to majority native-English classrooms.

Another key indicator is the nationality of the "English support" teachers - those that aren't necessarily fully qualified teachers and don't have home-room or specialist-subject responsibilities, but are there to help the Thai and other non-native students get up to speed on ESL. If it's mostly Asian teachers (often Filipina or Indian) in those positions, as opposed to UK/US/Aussie etc, that saves the school a ton of money, and personally, I'd at least find a way to assess how well-spoken they are, in the sense that if their accent is so idiomatic I can't make out what they're saying. . .

Of course one could say the same for many Scots/Welsh/US/Aussie etc accents, and variety's a great thing for an international context, but I'm suggesting this mostly as an indicator of the school cutting corners to save costs. If you are trying to lower school fees costs and they pass the savings on, find and good, but something to be aware of.

Finally, I wish there were a way to accurately get teacher-turnover numbers - to me, that's the one key indicator of quality in how the school is managed. I know the place I worked at for many years (in that top tier) went through a couple of years where turnover averaged over 30%, and that was exactly a reflection of the fact that during that period management was in turmoil, wasn't focusing on classroom/education quality issues but power/political BS.

Best of luck in your search. . .

Edited April 25, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[minibot]

Thank you BigJohnnyBKK. I'm not a teacher-don't know your 'lingo' but curriculum pacing and teacher quality were top

concerns....Your explanation is very useful!

[Harry62]

Hi,

I'm in a similar situation, moving to Bangkok this summer with a 7 and 9-year old, and we think we will choose for St Andrews Sathorn. We visited this school, as well as Shrewsbury, ISB and NIST. School fees are not a criterium for us (paid by empoyer), but we think we prefer a bit smaller school, with the option to live close by (in a neighbourhood where it is possible to find quiet places) and walk to school. When choosing a school like NIST it means that the children will have to sit in the bus long hours every day and that just doesn't seem appealing to me.

When we visited St Andrews Sathorn we really liked the relaxed atmosphere, while we also saw quite some parents walking around and having a chat after bringing their children to school. I don't know exactly about the nationality mix but we saw quite some non-Asian parents at the time.

I don't know if this helps but I thought perhaps it could be of interest to hear other people's considerations for choosing one school or the other.

[LucidLucifer]

I can't really comment on the education and pastoral care your children will receive at St.Andrews, as I have no first hand experience.

What I can say with certainty is that in terms of what they pay their teachers, they are a long, long way from the better schools. In fact, their pay package is pretty poor.

This may be good for you in that the lack of a decent salary for their teachers will be reflected in lower fees. Two reasons it maybe bad for you are:

1. Teacher's may have a short lifespan at the school, and be off at the first whiff of a better paying position.

2. The top paying schools will get first choice of teachers, and are likely to attract the better ones.

[LucidLucifer]

If you want a teacher's perspective of the place try searching on the TES forum. A link is provided below.

Naming schools is banned on there, so criptic names are used. I know for St.Andrews they use the moniker 'The Scottish Saint.'

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/64.aspx

I can't say what you'll find (good or bad), but it may provide you with some info on the place.

Good luck.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I can't really comment on the education and pastoral care your children will receive at St.Andrews, as I have no first hand experience.

What I can say with certainty is that in terms of what they pay their teachers, they are a long, long way from the better schools. In fact, their pay package is pretty poor.

And of course it means they are much less demanding wrt the backgrounds and qualifications of teachers and slacker about checking their CVs' claims.

I have yet to hear of an English-language programme that I would consider good value for money. The ones that verge on decent are outrageously expensive, the cheaper ones are barely fair, and the inexpensive places are just awful.

That said, a truly intelligent/ambitious/talented student with strong home support can excel anywhere, including IMO home schooling if that's an option.

[LucidLucifer]

I have yet to hear of an English-language programme that I would consider good value for money. The ones that verge on decent are outrageously expensive, the cheaper ones are barely fair, and the inexpensive places are just awful.

If the alternative is an education within the Thai state sector, i'd have thought most of the better international schools represent great value for money.

[bkkjjj]

Hi,

I'm a parent with a child at St. Andrews. I do understand the overwhelming choices one has to make when choosing a school that would be best for their child, so I thought I'd just add my opinions.

My son is now in Secondary school at St. Andrews Sukhumvit 107, but started his St. Andrews education at the Sathorn campus when he was in Primary school. The teachers and office staff there are very helpful and took care of my son through out the years.

Any issues / questions that came up were instantly taken care of. I know for a fact that all the St. Andrews teaching staff are qualified and are native English speakers as I questioned this when I arrived. Proof is available. The teachers are usually on a 2 year contract but most stay on longer than that.

The Sathorn campus is small. It only goes up to Year 6 and the students transfer to the Sukhumvit 107 campus after that. The size of the Sathorn campus was perfect for my son. It's similar to what one might find in a Primary school in the UK. A report is given twice a year with opportunities for parents to discuss developments with the teachers at any time.

I believe in first impressions, and a visit is a must when choosing a school. I spoke to the teachers, the head of school and parents before making my decision on the school. St. Andrews Sathorn is a very warm and welcoming place.

Hope this helps.

[beachyman]

Hi,

I'm a parent with a child at St. Andrews. I do understand the overwhelming choices one has to make when choosing a school that would be best for their child, so I thought I'd just add my opinions.

My son is now in Secondary school at St. Andrews Sukhumvit 107, but started his St. Andrews education at the Sathorn campus when he was in Primary school. The teachers and office staff there are very helpful and took care of my son through out the years.

Any issues / questions that came up were instantly taken care of. I know for a fact that all the St. Andrews teaching staff are qualified and are native English speakers as I questioned this when I arrived. Proof is available. The teachers are usually on a 2 year contract but most stay on longer than that.

The Sathorn campus is small. It only goes up to Year 6 and the students transfer to the Sukhumvit 107 campus after that. The size of the Sathorn campus was perfect for my son. It's similar to what one might find in a Primary school in the UK. A report is given twice a year with opportunities for parents to discuss developments with the teachers at any time.

I believe in first impressions, and a visit is a must when choosing a school. I spoke to the teachers, the head of school and parents before making my decision on the school. St. Andrews Sathorn is a very warm and welcoming place.

Hope this helps.

You just happened to stumble across this post right after you set up your account on the 12th? Color me and everyone reading this thread skeptical.

[j311ybean]

Okay. This is also my first posting. Hello to all. I also only registered when I saw the OP. I don't work for, nor have any children attending, the school mentioned (although I do know people who do, or have worked there). The reason I registered was because I thought I might have something to add because I am a teacher in an international school. I have lived in Bangkok for 6 years and during that time I've also been an avid reader of TV (mostly of the ladies' forum) but I haven't contributed. My bad. Perhaps, (and this doesn't put me in a very good light), this is because I'm a bit lazy or perhaps because I'm not entirely sure when it's okay to voice an opinion here. First post, second post or one-thousandth post??? I have seen time and time again postings from people who are on their, for instance, ONLY 140th (or whatever low number less than 1001) post denounced as trolls or as having second or third identities on the forum when, perhaps, it was the first time they felt strongly enough about something to actually post an opinion. Just saying. It's okay to voice an opinion for the first time. Surely?

[astral]

Hey, go easy.

There are such coincidences.

Hover over the posters avatar and look at their profile,

especially the other posts they have made before you jump to conclusions.

[j311ybean]

Now, since I've had my rant...OP - St Andrews Sathorn, and if you visit it you will see, is like a village school in the middle of a big city with all the positives and negatives that brings. For instance, it has a 'city' playground, i.e. not much grass to play footie or whatever,,,I'm not even going to extol the positives for fear of you or other posters thinking I've a vested interested.

What LucidLucifer has said is very true. To a certain extent. Bigger schools bigger salaries. However, and it's a big however...lots of teachers - well qualified and committed - and notwithstanding BigJohnny's insinutations - fully checked out - choose to work in smaller schools. In Bangkok, in London, in New York - wherever - some teachers thrive and deliver very good teaching in big schools, some teachers (not through lack of qualifications, experience or vocation) choose to work in smaller schools because they want to not because that was all that was available to them.

My advice, go and see the school. Talk to the head. Ask to talk to parents or just hang around when your children go in for their first 'look-see' and talk to parents. also do your search, as LucidLucifer has advised, on TES, If it were my children I think I'd be skeptical and kynical too.

[j311ybean]

Hey, go easy.

There are such coincidences.

Hover over the posters avatar and look at their profile,

especially the other posts they have made before you jump to conclusions.

Ok I was being hasty.And possibly a bit grumpy. Apologies to LucidLucifer and anybody else who might have been offended. (Can I count this as my 3rd post?)

[samran]

Now, since I've had my rant...OP - St Andrews Sathorn, and if you visit it you will see, is like a village school in the middle of a big city with all the positives and negatives that brings. For instance, it has a 'city' playground, i.e. not much grass to play footie or whatever,,,I'm not even going to extol the positives for fear of you or other posters thinking I've a vested interested.

What LucidLucifer has said is very true. To a certain extent. Bigger schools bigger salaries. However, and it's a big however...lots of teachers - well qualified and committed - and notwithstanding BigJohnny's insinutations - fully checked out - choose to work in smaller schools. In Bangkok, in London, in New York - wherever - some teachers thrive and deliver very good teaching in big schools, some teachers (not through lack of qualifications, experience or vocation) choose to work in smaller schools because they want to not because that was all that was available to them.

My advice, go and see the school. Talk to the head. Ask to talk to parents or just hang around when your children go in for their first 'look-see' and talk to parents. also do your search, as LucidLucifer has advised, on TES, If it were my children I think I'd be skeptical and kynical too.

I can vouch for one thing, bigger schools can mean bigger salaries, but after a while it is the culture and approach of the school teachers are attracted to. At that level, salaries generally are pretty good anyway. My wife is an international school teacher. She's taught in the UAE, American school of London, and in BKK : ISB, Pattana, Harrow. At the end of the day, she prefers a school at which she is happy.

Find a school where the teachers are happy (especially) with management and a good parent association/level of participation and you'll find a good school to send your kids.

[bkkjjj]

Skeptical or not, I just heard of this site and signed on as there were many things that came up quite interesting.

I believe in my choices for my own family and just giving my opinions. Comments mentioned here by everyone are all valid. I have friends who have children at all the top tier schools here in BKK as well as the mid range international schools (in terms of fees) and bi-lingual schools. I'm not saying any are better or worse. What's important is that my child is happy and developing in every way. Fees are a key concern, but other things such as the teachers, curriculum and traveling distance also have to be calculated into the equation when deciding what you want your child.

As I said, first impressions count....visit the schools and see what is appropriate for your child.

[nocturn]

Okay. This is also my first posting. Hello to all. I also only registered when I saw the OP. I don't work for, nor have any children attending, the school mentioned (although I do know people who do, or have worked there). The reason I registered was because I thought I might have something to add because I am a teacher in an international school. I have lived in Bangkok for 6 years and during that time I've also been an avid reader of TV (mostly of the ladies' forum) but I haven't contributed. My bad. Perhaps, (and this doesn't put me in a very good light), this is because I'm a bit lazy or perhaps because I'm not entirely sure when it's okay to voice an opinion here. First post, second post or one-thousandth post??? I have seen time and time again postings from people who are on their, for instance, ONLY 140th (or whatever low number less than 1001) post denounced as trolls or as having second or third identities on the forum when, perhaps, it was the first time they felt strongly enough about something to actually post an opinion. Just saying. It's okay to voice an opinion for the first time. Surely?

umm, i dont care how many posts you have made, and everybody starts at one.

what i would like to point out is that you never actually commented on the school and the topic at hand.

i, for one, would love to hear your input.

edit: oops, i should have read further. thanks for chiming in.

<snip>

Edited May 14, 2012 by soundman
Spelling.

[minibot]

Thanks all for your inputs/opinions! It seems clear now that we definitely need to visit the schools before we decide. Thanks LucidLucifer

for the tes link.

[PattayaParent]

Hey, go easy.

There are such coincidences.

Hover over the posters avatar and look at their profile,

especially the other posts they have made before you jump to conclusions.

Indeed, my very first post, and user name, came about because someone on the Pattaya forum was asking advice about schools in Pattaya and the previous week I had just visited them all looking for a school for my child so was armed with up to date valid (and I hope useful) information.

[Harry62]

Perhaps I can add that in the meantime we decided to choose for St Andrews Sathorn (after the period of "thinking to choose for" as in the earlier post). We actually were in doubt between two schools and amongst these two we were quite impressed by the communication with St Andrews Sathorn. They seem to be very flexible and open to any suggestions and always responded very promptly to our queries.

We actually also found a family friendly and "low-rise buildings" compound in the neighbourhood (one of my other posts) so we're quite happy with these choices. But still no real life experience, I will have to post some additional info once we're a few months further.

[minibot]

A year later-we chose Patana and are happy with the choice. Son loves everything about the school. I could nitpick but - it works for us.