Do You Connect?

[buhi]

Do you connect?

Living and working in Bangkok has many advantages over working in England. If you are qualified and good at your job, you will find it easy to be employed, change jobs if the post you have is not fulfilling your needs or you find a better position.

Living, with regard to accommodation, is even easier; first decide where you want to live, then what type of accommodation you want, house, detached,or apartment,these are readily found in most locations with the added advantage of a range of rents and facilities.

Many threads on TV are about this.

In the UK the job market, when I was working there was reasonably flexible as was the home market, but there was a problem. If you had a good job, you also owned (mortgaged) a home. If you re located for a better position then you found yourself in the buyer seller chain. You cannot buy until you sell and have fewer choices of location. In effect you easily get stuck in a rut, not liking job or home, but the prospect of moving is too much of an upheaval.

Back to "do you connect". I got stuck in this rut, made a plunge and moved to a better job, bigger and better house.Location was third on the priority list, good location was rather a physical than a community thing.Then too late I realised I did not fit in with my new community. Now this was something new to me, had never had this happen before, had always adapted and made friends and assimilated into the community.

It led to all manner of problems the most serious being the breakdown of my marriage and in consequence my arrival in Thailand.

Here I have put community at the top of my priorities, job second and type of home third. The last two are easily changed, that sense of belonging is not.

What are your priorities when it comes to job, location?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

OK, I'll bite, not sure if I get the gist of your topic.

Job = money

When I get full-time work in BKK I move to within walking distance, can't stand wasting time commuting.

Depending on how you define "community", you'll probably have to invest a lot of time and energy into building one around you, usually difficult to just plug into one here, unless you think you can find it just by becoming a regular in a bar or in an online version like here - neither of which I think fit within either of our definition.

A happy household where I'm the boss, extended family with genuine mutual respect and concern, a few good friends and reasonable relations with the neighbors have been enough for me. More would be nice, but I don't put in the effort required. . .

[edwinclapham]

A happy house where we as a married couple make joint decisions.

Followed by job and location.

[PattayaParent]

Priority for job is money.

Then what country is it in?

In Bangkok you live next to your job unless you want to spend fruitless hours in traffic or are near the skytrain both ends.

[notmyself]

OK, I'll bite, not sure if I get the gist of your topic.

Job = money

When I get full-time work in BKK I move to within walking distance, can't stand wasting time commuting.

Depending on how you define "community", you'll probably have to invest a lot of time and energy into building one around you, usually difficult to just plug into one here, unless you think you can find it just by becoming a regular in a bar or in an online version like here - neither of which I think fit within either of our definition.

A happy household where I'm the boss, extended family with genuine mutual respect and concern, a few good friends and reasonable relations with the neighbors have been enough for me. More would be nice, but I don't put in the effort required. . .

Great post. With that understanding I imagine you could find a spot for yourself anywhere in the world. I would also postulate that you have been to a great number of places over the years to gain this insight.

[buhi]

OK, I'll bite, not sure if I get the gist of your topic.

Job = money

When I get full-time work in BKK I move to within walking distance, can't stand wasting time commuting.

Depending on how you define "community", you'll probably have to invest a lot of time and energy into building one around you, usually difficult to just plug into one here, unless you think you can find it just by becoming a regular in a bar or in an online version like here - neither of which I think fit within either of our definition.

A happy household where I'm the boss, extended family with genuine mutual respect and concern, a few good friends and reasonable relations with the neighbors have been enough for me. More would be nice, but I don't put in the effort required. . .

By community I mean people I am happy to live amongst and who are sociable.

I moved from a city to a very traditional rural area where it was difficult to be accepted.

In Bangkok you can choose and easily re locate. Seems simple enough to get my drift. Mortgage, work almost a mill stone round your neck in the UK.

[JSixpack]

I moved from a city to a very traditional rural area where it was difficult to be accepted.

Thais will never accept you as a Thai, anywhere. Can't imagine moving to Thailand to be accepted.

In Bangkok you can choose and easily re locate. Seems simple enough to get my drift. Mortgage, work almost a mill stone round your neck in the UK.

In the UK you can choose and easily re locate. In the UK you are hardly obliged to take out a mortgage. If you do, and you move, you can easily rent out your place for income and later capital gains.

In Bangkok, banks will give you no mortgage, so you'll either have to rent or pay upfront--which you could do in the UK as well. If you pay upfront, you have the same situation as in the UK if you want to move. If you have to work in the UK, you'll sooner or later have to work in Thailand--for less, probably.

You don't really have a point. Just more looking at Thailand thru rose-tinted glasses.

[Soutpeel]

I moved from a city to a very traditional rural area where it was difficult to be accepted.

Thais will never accept you as a Thai, anywhere. Can't imagine moving to Thailand to be accepted.

In Bangkok you can choose and easily re locate. Seems simple enough to get my drift. Mortgage, work almost a mill stone round your neck in the UK.

In the UK you can choose and easily re locate. In the UK you are hardly obliged to take out a mortgage. If you do, and you move, you can easily rent out your place for income and later capital gains.

In Bangkok, banks will give you no mortgage, so you'll either have to rent or pay upfront--which you could do in the UK as well. If you pay upfront, you have the same situation as in the UK if you want to move. If you have to work in the UK, you'll sooner or later have to work in Thailand--for less, probably.

You don't really have a point. Just more looking at Thailand thru rose-tinted glasses.

This sentence in the OP.....is the key " It led to all manner of problems the most serious being the breakdown of my marriage and in consequence my arrival in Thailand".....

[JSixpack]

I moved from a city to a very traditional rural area where it was difficult to be accepted.

Thais will never accept you as a Thai, anywhere. Can't imagine moving to Thailand to be accepted.

In Bangkok you can choose and easily re locate. Seems simple enough to get my drift. Mortgage, work almost a mill stone round your neck in the UK.

In the UK you can choose and easily re locate. In the UK you are hardly obliged to take out a mortgage. If you do, and you move, you can easily rent out your place for income and later capital gains.

In Bangkok, banks will give you no mortgage, so you'll either have to rent or pay upfront--which you could do in the UK as well. If you pay upfront, you have the same situation as in the UK if you want to move. If you have to work in the UK, you'll sooner or later have to work in Thailand--for less, probably.

You don't really have a point. Just more looking at Thailand thru rose-tinted glasses.

This sentence in the OP.....is the key " It led to all manner of problems the most serious being the breakdown of my marriage and in consequence my arrival in Thailand".....

You saw right thru all the smoke, heh.

[Soutpeel]

You saw right thru all the smoke, heh.

I could be tempted to dissect the OP line for line and give the real reason behind his comments...but not going to be so cruel...

[HardenedSoul]

Sounds like the OP is attempting to convince himself of the merits of remaining here. That's not a negative thing; I'm not ashamed to admit I did the same after the novelty wore off. I told myself there were millions of working stiffs back home who'd give their eye teeth for what I had here in terms of:

1. Low cost of living (compared to West London)

2. Very curious, beautiful women ( I guess it's a novelty for them that I'm black & British)

3. Tasty, cheap food

4. An almost total absence of "establishment" intrusion/involvement in my life (ie Tax, electoral register, CCTV, parking fines, congestion charging . . . the list is endless)

5. The lack of pressure to earn more and more money

I reassured myself with this stuff whenever:

1. I grew wary of not being able to have a normal conversation with any English-speaking foreigner that didn't involve anything from their bragging about what a big hit they were with the prostitutes and how far their sphere of influence and their connections in Thaialnd extended to how much money they were pulling down "trading". Whenever I heard this last one, I'd always ask them which technical analysis indicators they used and, without fail, they'd have no idea what I was talking about.

2. The standard of customer service from almost every aspect of normal life plumbed depths that I'd never imagined existed.

3. The nonsense that is "Thainess" or, rather, its being put into practice by puerile, wrong-and-strong Thais who've been caught trying to overcharge raises its head.

4. The English-speaking customer service option is staffed by people who can do anything but speak English.

In the end, I just realized that I spend most of my time here laughing/smiling as opposed to scowling back home so it was a no-brainer.

Maybe the OP just needed to write it down to help his decision -making process.

[Soutpeel]

Sounds like the OP is attempting to convince himself of the merits of remaining here. That's not a negative thing; I'm not ashamed to admit I did the same after the novelty wore off. I told myself there were millions of working stiffs back home who'd give their eye teeth for what I had here in terms of:

1. Low cost of living (compared to West London)

2. Very curious, beautiful women ( I guess it's a novelty for them that I'm black & British)

3. Tasty, cheap food

4. An almost total absence of "establishment" intrusion/involvement in my life (ie Tax, electoral register, CCTV, parking fines, congestion charging . . . the list is endless)

5. The lack of pressure to earn more and more money

I reassured myself with this stuff whenever:

1. I grew wary of not being able to have a normal conversation with any English-speaking foreigner that didn't involve anything from their bragging about what a big hit they were with the prostitutes and how far their sphere of influence and their connections in Thaialnd extended to how much money they were pulling down "trading". Whenever I heard this last one, I'd always ask them which technical analysis indicators they used and, without fail, they'd have no idea what I was talking about.

2. The standard of customer service from almost every aspect of normal life plumbed depths that I'd never imagined existed.

3. The nonsense that is "Thainess" or, rather, its being put into practice by puerile, wrong-and-strong Thais who've been caught trying to overcharge raises its head.

4. The English-speaking customer service option is staffed by people who can do anything but speak English.

In the end, I just realized that I spend most of my time here laughing/smiling as opposed to scowling back home so it was a no-brainer.

Maybe the OP just needed to write it down to help his decision -making process.

Or of course

he could also be using what he has written as a smoke screen up for the real reason for coming to Thailand.....Cheap and plentyful sex.... or imaybe be the culture and temples....

[RudieTheFoodie]

Grass is always greener (how do they do that?)

It's all different whether you're young, a young parent, a pissed off hate the world divorcee or a grinning pensioner who realises they've won the game and are waiting to checkout.

[farang000999]

amazing how many divorced western men suddenly gain an interest in temples and buddhism.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Great post. With that understanding I imagine you could find a spot for yourself anywhere in the world. I would also postulate that you have been to a great number of places over the years to gain this insight.

Thanks, and correct on all counts. Have lived at least five separate lifetimes in this one on four continents, and I'm hoping I'm not much past half-way so far.

[buhi]

Lots of points to answer here.

First lets establish I have lived here for 16 years and have been married for 15 of them to my Thai wife.

Yes I was musing about my past in the UK and the years I have lived and worked here in Thailand.

It was not cost effective to rent in the UK,well not when I first entered the property market there. I just did what most of my contemporaries did, took out a mortgage based on my job security. The norm. I had not the life experience I have now.

Life was a straight forward series of events for me and most of my friends, in those young far off days. Good secure job, getting promotion, having the car, later cars, wife, children and just getting on with a regular life.

Then I thought of the changes in myself here. Yes I came here following a very nasty divorce, so correct the key, but that was over 17 years ago. Yes I fell for the place and went through the rosy coloured stage. Believe me I am well past that, by at least a decade.

What my musings were about was how easy it has been for me to find various jobs, many different opportunities in Bangkok without any major upheavals. One position loses its spark, time to ignite it by finding a more satisfying occupation. Financial security allowed me this. Not having a mortgage allowed me to move to suitable locations near my work, as is the case of others who replied here.Changing jobs, relocating is so easy in Bangkok. That is not or was not the case in England.

As for that sense of community, no I will never be a Thai, but then I was never a native of any of the places I lived in in England. My roots were severed once I left home for university; I never returned to live in my "home town", Of the three places in England I lived and worked in in England, two are remembered with happiness, where I felt a sense of belonging, the third was as I wrote was a disaster.I did not belong. As a non Thai resident of Bangkok I have regained that sense of this is where I love to live.

I admit it would not be the same without my wife, son, step children and extended family.I like to think I am accepted by them as a non Thai member of the clan, we have been relatives for 15 years with all the ups and downs inevitable.

My neighbours, we have lived in our house for 10 years now,accept me as the non Thai member of our little community.

A good outcome from the lowest point of my life 17 yearsago to the present.

I hope this answers the cynical replies.

[farang000999]

so what were all these different jobs you found yourself in over the years?

[Ijustwannateach]

Apropos of nothing, I'm going to start removing posts forumwide which bash teachers and the teachers' forum, without warning. If you want your post to remain, don't bash teachers.

[farang000999]

"Now, it happened that after you moved to Thailand NOT because of any "job mobility" issues you found yourself a stable wife and family and THAT's why you're happy. Yet a fairly recent survey says that 78% of UK men are "very happy" in their current marriages. (Shocking, I know.)"

not shocking cause those that were not happy and divorced did not get interviewed.

suppose you take 10 couples. 4 get divorced. the other 6 get interviewed and 5 are very happy.

as they say about statistics... it is mostly bull shit.

[buhi]

"Now, it happened that after you moved to Thailand NOT because of any "job mobility" issues you found yourself a stable wife and family and THAT's why you're happy. Yet a fairly recent survey says that 78% of UK men are "very happy" in their current marriages. (Shocking, I know.)"

not shocking cause those that were not happy and divorced did not get interviewed.

suppose you take 10 couples. 4 get divorced. the other 6 get interviewed and 5 are very happy.

as they say about statistics... it is mostly bull shit.

Your point is?

[buhi]

"Now, it happened that after you moved to Thailand NOT because of any "job mobility" issues you found yourself a stable wife and family and THAT's why you're happy. Yet a fairly recent survey says that 78% of UK men are "very happy" in their current marriages. (Shocking, I know.)"

not shocking cause those that were not happy and divorced did not get interviewed.

suppose you take 10 couples. 4 get divorced. the other 6 get interviewed and 5 are very happy.

as they say about statistics... it is mostly bull shit.

I did all I could to save my marriage, you are making the typical assumption of male infidelity!

Why do you want me to give details of my various posts in Thailand?

[StreetCowboy]

Apropos of nothing, I'm going to start removing posts forumwide which bash teachers and the teachers' forum, without warning. If you want your post to remain, don't bash teachers.

Do you mean remove without warnng, or bash without warning?

I ask only out of academic pedantry (I don't mean that as an attack on our scholastic companions, who are of dubious academic rigour, if rumour is to be believed - I mean that I have no intention of bashing our teaching fellows (by fellows I do not mean like in University Fellows, but as in fellow members; I am sure members who could be university fellows would not be eking out a living teaching here).

I trust you will offer the same protection to us fraudsters and knaves, if it is required

Thanks

SC

[farang000999]

learn to read better. i am quoting someone's post who said that a poll showed 78% of married to be happy. i pointed out why this poll is useless: those who get divorced are no longer married and not polled.

[JSixpack]

Apropos of nothing, I'm going to start removing posts forumwide which bash teachers and the teachers' forum, without warning. If you want your post to remain, don't bash teachers.

Further appropos of nothing, let's make that merely "mentioning" teachers, as I didn't "bash" teachers at all. Nor have I ever seen, ever (in my 8 years of membership), anywhere on this site, a post that bashed the teachers' forum. I can't imagine any reason for bashing a forum, actually. What might such a reason be? Now, some might unwisely bash the mod of a forum, I suppose, but that would merely lead to a posting holiday or banning.

Yeah, be warned, members: another forbidden subject, rather like The Royalty.

Suggestion: write up this new rule into the forum rules so that it's perfectly clear and known in advance.

[JSixpack]

Lots of points to answer here.

First lets establish I have lived here for 16 years and have been married for 15 of them to my Thai wife.

Yes I was musing about my past in the UK and the years I have lived and worked here in Thailand.

It was not cost effective to rent in the UK,well not when I first entered the property market there. I just did what most of my contemporaries did, took out a mortgage based on my job security. The norm. I had not the life experience I have now.

Life was a straight forward series of events for me and most of my friends, in those young far off days. Good secure job, getting promotion, having the car, later cars, wife, children and just getting on with a regular life.

Then I thought of the changes in myself here. Yes I came here following a very nasty divorce, so correct the key, but that was over 17 years ago. Yes I fell for the place and went through the rosy coloured stage. Believe me I am well past that, by at least a decade.

What my musings were about was how easy it has been for me to find various jobs, many different opportunities in Bangkok without any major upheavals. One position loses its spark, time to ignite it by finding a more satisfying occupation. Financial security allowed me this. Not having a mortgage allowed me to move to suitable locations near my work, as is the case of others who replied here.Changing jobs, relocating is so easy in Bangkok. That is not or was not the case in England.

As for that sense of community, no I will never be a Thai, but then I was never a native of any of the places I lived in in England. My roots were severed once I left home for university; I never returned to live in my "home town", Of the three places in England I lived and worked in in England, two are remembered with happiness, where I felt a sense of belonging, the third was as I wrote was a disaster.I did not belong. As a non Thai resident of Bangkok I have regained that sense of this is where I love to live.

I admit it would not be the same without my wife, son, step children and extended family.I like to think I am accepted by them as a non Thai member of the clan, we have been relatives for 15 years with all the ups and downs inevitable.

My neighbours, we have lived in our house for 10 years now,accept me as the non Thai member of our little community.

A good outcome from the lowest point of my life 17 yearsago to the present.

I hope this answers the cynical replies.

Congrats and give yourself a big pat on the back. But you haven't made your case that job mobility is necessarily easier in Thailand than in the UK. (Posts from job seekers and expressions of job dissatisfaction in Thailand are quite common on this site, not to mention any particular forum.) In the desperate effort to do so, you make some nonsensical statements such as "you cannot buy until you sell." You admit you didn't have to have a mortgage in the UK. Contrary to your assertion, it was never too expensive to rent--esp. as you can always find someone to share the rent. And, yes, the UK also offers a wide variety of accomodation. Many types of work, for example, technical contracting or consulting, offer a very high degree of mobility and many expenses are paid by the employers. Between jobs, unemployment benefits keep one afloat; and NHS takes care of medical expenses--which you'd not get in Thailand.

Now, it happened that you found yourself a stable wife and family in Thailand and THAT's why you're happy. Yet a fairly recent survey says that 78% of UK men are "very happy" in their current marriages. (Shocking, I know.)

http://www.acop.com/press/2011/08/married_couples/

My point is that it is quite possible to happy w/ marriage and a family in the UK and in fact large numbers are. Moreover, complaints about unhappy marriages and relationships in Thailand are constant here on the forum.

You only lived in three places in England but were happy in two of them. The fact that you found one place where you were not happy is no reason to condemn the entire country and imply that Thailand offers all of what England doesn't. Again, complaints of non-acceptance and discrimination against farangs abound on this site. It's a constant theme!

Hence you're still wearing those rose-tinted glasses.

And so the issue seems to boil down not to Thailand vs. the UK, as you claim, but rather you, your particular attitudes, and your luck. Unspoken is the question of payments, direct or indirect, to your Thai family to, uh, "facilitate" the overall happiness, the "connection." We'll assume, by contrast, you were not paying your UK wife--until the divorce. Farangs commonly pay in divorce settlements here as well--in addition to all the payments during the marriage/relationship. I'm excluding the many farangs being supported by their highly educated wealthy Chinese Thai wives of course.

[NanLaew]

I am intrigued at the OP's repeated contention that changing jobs as soon as one is bored or dissatisfied is quicker and easier for a foreigner in LOS than it is back where they come from. Is there a unique occupation for foreigners legally working in Thailand that is blessed thus?

[NanLaew]

Apropos of nothing, I'm going to start removing posts forumwide which bash teachers and the teachers' forum, without warning. If you want your post to remain, don't bash teachers.

Do you mean remove without warnng, or bash without warning?

I ask only out of academic pedantry (I don't mean that as an attack on our scholastic companions, who are of dubious academic rigour, if rumour is to be believed - I mean that I have no intention of bashing our teaching fellows (by fellows I do not mean like in University Fellows, but as in fellow members; I am sure members who could be university fellows would not be eking out a living teaching here).

I trust you will offer the same protection to us fraudsters and knaves, if it is required

Thanks

SC

SC.... The TRUE Defender of the Realm!

[JurgenG]

Apropos of nothing, I'm going to start removing posts forumwide which bash teachers and the teachers' forum, without warning. If you want your post to remain, don't bash teachers.

Do you realize that everybody here has been a student at some part of his life and most of us hate teachers ?

Teachers, leave the kids alone

Good luck !

[JurgenG]

That's where the teachers come from.

It's grey, it's sad, it's depressing.

Teachers, leave the kids alone.

[StreetCowboy]

I am intrigued at the OP's repeated contention that changing jobs as soon as one is bored or dissatisfied is quicker and easier for a foreigner in LOS than it is back where they come from. Is there a unique occupation for foreigners legally working in Thailand that is blessed thus?

That would be us - fraudsters and knaves.

SC