My three ex's all worked full time and everything was shared equally including cleaning, cooking shopping, washing, etc. The exception was gardening which was largely my domain.

The inequality kicked in after seperation when apparently they owned 55-65% of everything.

As a result of many threads on this forum, I'm just wondering how come so many of you guys are so willing to financially support Thai women & their ENTIRE families when you were so adamant that your previous western female partners had to go out to work and contribute to the debt-ridden society that you had become so accustomed to...... and now you can't stand a bar of us?

I speak as a complete outsider but could it be because "western female partners" insist upon being 50% of a working relationship rather than a part of what could possibly called a more 'traditional' relationship where the woman does the 'stopping at home' bit while the man does the 'going hunting' bit? And no, this isn't meant to be offensive or a wind-up.

I have so many resposnes on the edge of my tongue. I shall however, hold my peace, as I like Khall and I don´t want her to get angry with me.

Hi,

Many interesting posts here, so I'd like to comment on them with my views and in no particular order.

Relationships - foreign/foreign vs. cross-cultural: Prior to moving to Pattaya about 2 years ago, I lived and worked in Japan for 15 years. Japanese, Thais, and many people and cultures in Southeast Asia share many of the same values, belief systems, and educational systems (rote learning, repetition, etc). Because of this, I think I can make some relavent comparisons between Thai and Japanese societies and how they compare with their Western counterparts.

Start by realizing that in Western cultures, roughly 50% of marriages end in divorce, the reasons for which are too many to discuss here. However, you must understand this dismal success rate against a backdrop of the following: same language, same culture, same belief systems, same religion, and same values, all of which shape the way we enter into and maintain our relationships. Thus, when you look at intercultural relationships, like those between foreigners and Japanese/Thai, you're already entering a relationship with the odds saying you've only got a 50% chance of success PLUS many other barriers - language difficulties, cultural differences, belief systems, to name a few - that are really going to stack the deck against a successful union. While living and working in Japan, I met my future ex-wife, she from England and me from Canada. Yet, despite us sharing the same culture, etc., as those mentioned above, we were separated after 6 years of marriage. Most importantly, we were and remain VERY MUCH IN LOVE. Ours was/is a very honest/open relationship, and we're now trying to get back together. When I say "It's me, not you," I am being completely truthful. We rarely if ever fought or argued, and if we did, it was always because of something stupid I did, usually related to alcohol over-indulgence. So here we are, born and bred under basically the same circumstances, and completely in love, yet we were still unable to "fix it" rather than separate. So what are the chances of a successful foreigner/Thai/Japanese relationship???? NOT GOOD, IMO. While in Japan, I saw many foreigners marry Japanese women, and 9 out of 10 times, they ended in divorce. While I don't want to place blame, as I believe most people jump the gun and get married for the wrong reasons, regardless of culture, here are my observations. Japanese women, for the most part, are very accomodating in many areas (as are Thai women). Subservient, obedient, sexually adventurous, etc., but do not share with their partners the most important aspects of a relationship that lead to success - common beliefs and communication. I had many guys tell me that once they had kids, his wife "stopped being a wife and only became a mother". (Having said that, he probably wanted her to take care of the kids 24/7 while still fulfilling his every need, without pitching in with the housework, etc.) In Western societies, for the most part, it is the overwhelming Judeo/Christian beliefs and requisite behaviors that are rammed down our throats from the time we're children that shape our views on many things, particularly sexuality and the roles of men and women. In Southeast Asia, views on sexuality are much different. In Japan, women are very promiscuous and much more likely to "put out" than they're Western counterparts. That's not to say that "putting out" is bad, but only viewed as such when looked at from our J/C upbringings. At the same time, both Japanese and Thai societies on the one hand try to give the impression of their young women as being very chaste, more importance being placed on the family unit than Western families, and an overall superior moral code than their Western counterparts. This is completely untrue and extremely hypocritical given the reality of the situation. In Japan, while extolling the virtues of its young people and the strong moral fibre of its populace, the "powers that be" and the very people who live and work in the same culture, are the biggest producers of kiddie porn in the world, continue to subjugate their women, visit hostess clubs (men), prostitute themselves in their pursuit of material wealth (12-18 year old girls) - such as by selling their soiled panties, having sex with old, married men, etc. - all while pretending that none of it goes on, very much like is done here in Thailand. In general, they tend to wear blinders and refuse to really look at the truth, as it doesn't fit in with their idealized version (that which is taught to them) of life. When commenting on such, foreigners in Japan and Thailand - and I would suspect China, Korea, India, etc. - will more often than not be met with blank stares or "you don't understand Japanese/Thai culture" as the reason why it is as it is. As foreigners, we couldn't possibly understand. Because of this, as Westerners we have to learn not only to live and let live, but we CANNOT look at the cultures of either country from a western perspective. For example, it is logical to think that telling a lie would be bad in any culture, but this isn't so. Why? Because what a foreigner considers a lie is not looked at as such by a Thai or Japanese. In fact, its acceptance as truth or not is not even an issue, but rather the only important thing is the outcome, that is, that the result is mutually acceptable to each party. I once told a Thai girlfriend, "I don't care if the truth will hurt me or not, but only that you tell me the truth." Then, on father's day 2004, she said to me, "BTW, I have to go to BKK tomorrow for two weeks," to which I queried "whatever for?" She then said, "Oh, I'm engaged to be married to a foreigner I met over the Internet, see you in a couple of weeks." Understandably, I was furious and incredulous and I'm like "What????!!!!!!!" In the end, she said, "but I told you the truth" to which I said, "that's great, but in this case (marrying some other guy), it doesn't make it OK because you told me. She didn't get it. She told me her dad's company was in trouble so she needed a million baht sin sot to help him out. I asked why she didn't ask me, and she said, "because I love you," (so didn't want to lose face by asking for money). I said that I'd be happy to LOAN her dad the money, and when he got his shit together, he could pay me back with no interest. And she said LOAN?????? I'm like, yeah, loan, you think I'm just going to GIVE your dad $30,000 cause he can't keep his business in the black??? Then I get the, "well Thai children respect their parents more than foreigners do, so you wouldn't understand." Yeah, I understand alright. To me, it's almost as if adulthood means having children as fast as possible so they can grow up and start supporting you ASAP. You see, to me this makes no sense whatsoever, but to a Thai or Japanese, it is everything.

As far as just giving money to your Thai girlfriend (for the most part, Japanese women are employed and as such, you don't need to support her or her family, the parents of which often work until the day they drop dead), I think it is a stupid idea. I refuse to just "give" money to some chick so she can sit around on her arse all day, watching TV, or go shopping. To me, anyone who expects this doesn't deserve my respect, and any woman, regardless of personal circumstances and/or hardships, who sells herself when there are viable alternatives does so simply because she is lazy (yes, I know there are exceptions, of which I am well aware, but I'm not talking about the exceptions). I used to feel very sorry for these women, even to the point of weeping over their plight. However, having lived here for a while and seen the reality of the situation, I would say that the majority of these women (admittedly, the 19-30 age-group) are simply interested in having more gold, designer handbags, and more expensive cell phones than their peers. Another girlfriend said tearfully, "Oh, I don't want to go with man anymore for money, oh, boo hoo," then went out the next day and bought a 25,000 baht digital printer so she could send suggestive photos of herself to her "customers." I asked the same girlfriend that if she had a choice and the money, what she thought she might like to do, to which she replied she wouldn't mind running an Internet cafe. So I looked around (keep in mind that my offer was unconditional in that she would have my help whether we remained together or not), and found a nice guesthouse, bar, and Internet cafe in Jomtien beach for sale at 1,500,000 baht. I said that I'd be happy to buy that for her, and she need only pay me back the principal plus 10% interest over 3 years, and the business was hers to do with what she liked. You know what she said?????? She said, "Oh, but I don't really like Jomtien all that much." Needless to say, I was gob-smacked.

Sorry, I'm getting off track here. What I wanted to point out is an interesting observation I have had here and in Japan. When my wife and I went out and met with other couples, 99% of whom were foreign men and Japanese women, the foreign guys would go out of their way to talk to my wife and make no secret of their intentions. Why?, because these guys were actually starved for conversation with a Western woman with whom they could communicate in their own language. It's because of this that I have always known that I could never marry a Thai or Japanese woman who was not educated in the west and shared the same beliefs as me. COMMUNICATION is everything. So, ladies, when men here say they love the life, and can't stand foreign women and their baggage, etc., they're full of shit. If, however, they have convinced themselves otherwise, they may think again when they're bankrupt and licking their wounds and/or divorced and bitter and old, because "she just didn't get me!", and trying to relive their youth with young beautiful women, yet being lonelier than they've ever been in their lives. Let's face it, what young, attractive 20-year old Thai or Japanese woman would want to be with a guy who's as old as her father???? Answer, none! The fact is, if more 20 year old men were mature enough (yeah, right!) to be in a monogomous relationship (ha, ha, ha, ha!!) AND had a decent job and enough money to support a family, then the old geezers here would be shit out of luck.

That's about it for now. I could go on and on, and would love to do so, so feel free to contact me. I prefer chatting with women, provided both of us enter with an open mind. I'm interested to see any responses to this mail. Bye for now.

Welcome to the forum fredpat.

Yes, welcome Fredpat.

The fact is, if more 20 year old men were mature enough (yeah, right!) to be in a monogomous relationship (ha, ha, ha, ha!!) AND had a decent job and enough money to support a family, then the old geezers here would be shit out of luck.

This is classic.

Are you sure you are a guy?

I hate to admit it, but money does matter in a relationship. I just would not want put someone in a position where they can't leave because I have the money. Personally, I find the idea repugnant and I think that it is not a healthy way to live. In the end if a relationship goes sour that person is very tempted to placate the wealthier partner or empty the bank accounts and disappear. Wouldn't want to be on either end of that deal.

But, everybody makes their own compromises (at least if both parties are adults) and everybody is free to make their own choice. Even if that choice is not made with one's brain, hey it's not my problem or concern. But, we've all heard the story of the expat coming home to a condo emptied, bank account drained and partner gone. That's a risk if your partner's income is far less. It is.

A few months ago, I felt sorry for someone that came home to that cliche empty apartment. He was so blinded by his sympathy for his ex that he didn't even call the police, or want to. So, he stayed at my place, eating my food and borrowing my money until he "got on his feet". It's been two months, he's working and I doubt I'll ever see a single baht. It seems to be that it was okay for his ex to steal his money because she's a "poor, helpless, doe-eyed waitress" but my Educated Western Female Money just doesn't mean much. Luckily, there wasn't relationship involved and I got away fairly cheaply.

I knew the moment that money left my hands that it was entirely possible, probable in fact, that I'd never see it again. That's why I didn't give more than I could afford.

It affirmed that I could never have a relationship with someone who is a dependent. This has made me more cynical than I'd care to be, and that's worse than losing a couple thousand baht. No matter how much money is involved, if something like this were to happen in a relationship, I think the cost of becoming hardened by it would be far greater than money.

Fredpat, you raised some interesting points. I've posted on my own tangent, but welcome.

As a result of many threads on this forum, I'm just wondering how come so many of you guys are so willing to financially support Thai women & their ENTIRE families when you were so adamant that your previous western female partners had to go out to work and contribute to the debt-ridden society that you had become so accustomed to...... and now you can't stand a bar of us?

What a ridiculous question.

As a result of many threads on this forum, I'm just wondering how come so many of you guys are so willing to financially support Thai women & their ENTIRE families when you were so adamant that your previous western female partners had to go out to work and contribute to the debt-ridden society that you had become so accustomed to...... and now you can't stand a bar of us?

What a ridiculous question.

very helpful and educative comment...thak you...iwas really need it...

WE COULD NOT PASS WITHOUT IT!!!!!

Edited January 12, 200620 yr by Glauka

If you do not support her and her need to take care of her family, you will not be with her for long. Thai culture requires the elder female to bear responsibility for family support. It is called gat dtan yuu, a version of sam nuk bun kuhn. This is not negotiable.

Some modern Uni girls do not have this burden due to affluence in the family, but they will likely be more expensive in their tastes and expectations.

JMHO

If you do not support her and her need to take care of her family, you will not be with her for long. Thai culture requires the elder female to bear responsibility for family support. It is called gat dtan yuu, a version of sam nuk bun kuhn. This is not negotiable.

Some modern Uni girls do not have this burden due to affluence in the family, but they will likely be more expensive in their tastes and expectations.

JMHO

Not where I live. Often the parents live with the daughter as they age but they certainly do not expect their daughter to take care of them financially. In fact, I can't say that I know any girl who wholely supports her parents (esp able bodied parents). One is just as likely to see the aged parents living with the son.

"Gat dtaan you" doesn't apply to only the oldest daughter, it applies to all the children. And "gat dtaan you" isn't specifically referring to financially supporting one's parents. A child can "gat dtaan you" and not give them money at all. It is referring to the respect and care that every child owes their parents.

I'm a professional woman, have always been and wouldn't have it any other way. But in fairness to the " 100% supported" wives, I think most of them do quite a bit of work...looking after the home, cooking and otherwise "taking care" of the husband, and of course often raising children. Some men feel it's well worth it to be the sole wage earner in exchange for being taken care of at home by a woman -- especially here in Thailand where the cost of living makes this less of a financial squeeze than it would be elsewhere.

Now personally, I wouldn't want to be in that kind of a relationship nor do that kind of work (and it is work). But some women do -- or at least, are willing especially if support for a poor family is part of the deal -- and many men want this.

I feel sorry for the women though because I don't think very many women are emotionally satisfied in a relationship in which they have to mother the man (men, on the other hand, are frequently very happy with that arrangement). Thai women are more culturally conditioned to accept doing this but that doesn't mean they are happy. Truth is, women want to mother children, if they want to mother at all. They don't want to mother a husband or lover, they long to have an adult relationship instead. And most Thai women will say so if you talk to them in private.

Wasn't so different a few generations back in the West. I can remember survey after survey back in the Ozzie & Harriet years (1950's to early 60's) showing that most men were happy with their marital situation while the majority of women said they wouldn't marry their husband if they had to it over again. Not to long ago a very similar survey of Thai women came out, indicating a dormant volcano of frustration and dissatisfaction (this was Thai women in general, not specific to married to farangs).

I'm a professional woman, have always been and wouldn't have it any other way. But in fairness to the " 100% supported" wives, I think most of them do quite a bit of work...looking after the home, cooking and otherwise "taking care" of the husband, and of course often raising children. Some men feel it's well worth it to be the sole wage earner in exchange for being taken care of at home by a woman -- especially here in Thailand where the cost of living makes this less of a financial squeeze than it would be elsewhere.

Now personally, I wouldn't want to be in that kind of a relationship nor do that kind of work (and it is work). But some women do -- or at least, are willing especially if support for a poor family is part of the deal -- and many men want this.

I feel sorry for the women though because I don't think very many women are emotionally satisfied in a relationship in which they have to mother the man (men, on the other hand, are frequently very happy with that arrangement). Thai women are more culturally conditioned to accept doing this but that doesn't mean they are happy. Truth is, women want to mother children, if they want to mother at all. They don't want to mother a husband or lover, they long to have an adult relationship instead. And most Thai women will say so if you talk to them in private.

Wasn't so different a few generations back in the West. I can remember survey after survey back in the Ozzie & Harriet years (1950's to early 60's) showing that most men were happy with their marital situation while the majority of women said they wouldn't marry their husband if they had to it over again. Not to long ago a very similar survey of Thai women came out, indicating a dormant volcano of frustration and dissatisfaction (this was Thai women in general, not specific to married to farangs).

At least I dont have write why some men prefur Thai ladys to western women as you have pretty well explained it here Even when they have every thing they still find something to wine about

Are you sure the same ones complaining about western females working are the same ones who expected their ex farang wives to work?

If so, seems a bit hypocritical. Otherwise, could be different people with different ideas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes yes yes yes yes yes.... I've seen and heard it all here in the Land of Smiles.......... us same wenches who were meant to slave away and pay for the mortgage & the childrens education are now wondering how come we never had to worry after all!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more.....

But seriously, It really does amaze me how so many people are so quick to give money at the slightest hint of a problem.

marriage is a two way thing.I don't give a rats fat ar$e of what Thai culture is, if a Thai women can't understand mine.I firmly believe that if any relationship is too one sided, then it will either fail or one partner is happy with less than 50%.

I wonder how happy some Thai people would be with sending money to their spouses family, knowing that the money was comming out of their own little pot.

THEY actually do send money home to thier families , most all of them do !

Rigger, Rigger, Rigger..... wine is something people with taste drink, as opposed to 'whine' which people who are prone to whinge will do.

The recent statistics in Japan - a dynamic economic Asian culture where women traditionally looked after the home while the husband devoted his majority waking hours to his job- is that the wife leaves the husband once he retires as she can't stand living with a stranger. Apparently Thai wives are also becoming dissatisfied with their lot in life.

The world is changing.... you can't point your finger at farang women anymore. We just happened to buck the system first is all!

Rigger, Rigger, Rigger..... wine is something people with taste drink, as opposed to 'whine' which people who are prone to whinge will do.

The recent statistics in Japan - a dynamic economic Asian culture where women traditionally looked after the home while the husband devoted his majority waking hours to his job- is that the wife leaves the husband once he retires as she can't stand living with a stranger. Apparently Thai wives are also becoming dissatisfied with their lot in life.

The world is changing.... you can't point your finger at farang women anymore. We just happened to buck the system first is all!

Thats why I keep my wife bear foot pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink

Rigger, Rigger, Rigger..... wine is something people with taste drink, as opposed to 'whine' which people who are prone to whinge will do.

The recent statistics in Japan - a dynamic economic Asian culture where women traditionally looked after the home while the husband devoted his majority waking hours to his job- is that the wife leaves the husband once he retires as she can't stand living with a stranger. Apparently Thai wives are also becoming dissatisfied with their lot in life.

The world is changing.... you can't point your finger at farang women anymore. We just happened to buck the system first is all!

Thats why I keep my wife bear foot pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink

You Aussie you..... !!!

Rigger, Rigger, Rigger..... wine is something people with taste drink, as opposed to 'whine' which people who are prone to whinge will do.

The recent statistics in Japan - a dynamic economic Asian culture where women traditionally looked after the home while the husband devoted his majority waking hours to his job- is that the wife leaves the husband once he retires as she can't stand living with a stranger. Apparently Thai wives are also becoming dissatisfied with their lot in life.

The world is changing.... you can't point your finger at farang women anymore. We just happened to buck the system first is all!

Thats why I keep my wife bear foot pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink

You Aussie you..... !!!

Just joking Khall I respect all women no mater where they are from.

Just having a boring night at work

Edited January 12, 200620 yr by Rigger

Rigger, Rigger, Rigger..... wine is something people with taste drink, as opposed to 'whine' which people who are prone to whinge will do.

The recent statistics in Japan - a dynamic economic Asian culture where women traditionally looked after the home while the husband devoted his majority waking hours to his job- is that the wife leaves the husband once he retires as she can't stand living with a stranger. Apparently Thai wives are also becoming dissatisfied with their lot in life.

The world is changing.... you can't point your finger at farang women anymore. We just happened to buck the system first is all!

Thats why I keep my wife bear foot pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink

You Aussie you..... !!!

Just joking Khall I respect all women no mater where they are from.

Just having a boring night at work

Big girl's blouse..... Nice to hear that Rigger!

One big thing is costs/expenses - In the west things are quite a bit more expensive, and therefore most middle class families require both partners to work if they wish to maintain the lifestyle in which they live. Here in Thailand it is quite easy for me to support my wife and daughter and there is no financial need (from the families perspective) for my wife to work.

Also of note is the earning potential here in Thailand and the cost vs the gain of going to work. As most of you are aware the income potential for the average Thai here in Thailand is not that great. Also as many of you are undoubtedly aware the labor protection laws here in Thailand are not that grand, and many jobs require very long hours, and very little time off. Couple the poor labor protection, with the low wages and when weighing the benefits of working against the negatives many times it makes more sense for the partner not to work. At this stage in our relationship my wife does not work, but she is free to enter the workforce whenever she wants.

I do not ask my wife to work, but I also do not prevent her from getting a job. This decision is completely up to her. In addition I do not support my wife’s family. I help out on big things (funerals, major medical, etc), and I am sending my sister-in-law to University. But I also help out my family in the west on big things (funerals, legal bills, etc). Mostly just trying to be a good family member and helping out were I can (on both sides of the ocean).

I have this image in my head of a little thai lady with a big belly and ENORMOUS furry feet!!!

As a result of many threads on this forum, I'm just wondering how come so many of you guys are so willing to financially support Thai women & their ENTIRE families when you were so adamant that your previous western female partners had to go out to work and contribute to the debt-ridden society that you had become so accustomed to...... and now you can't stand a bar of us?

Well first of all I have never been adamant that my wife works. Thankfully, money is not a primary concern. I want her to be mentally stimulated, that could be from work, study, or volunteer work.

Please keep in mind, do you think you could support an entire farang family on $200-300 USD per month? I don't think so, so if my wife wants to contribute a similiar amount each month to her family for support, its fine with me.

At least I dont have write why some men prefur Thai ladys to western women as you have pretty well explained it here Even when they have every thing they still find something to wine about

Thats why I keep my wife bear foot pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink

Let's hope you are not also tryimg to teach her how to spell......

At least I dont have write why some men prefur Thai ladys to western women as you have pretty well explained it here Even when they have every thing they still find something to wine about

Thats why I keep my wife bear foot pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink

Let's hope you are not also tryimg to teach her how to spell......

Modern Woman 1

Not entirely true boon we can always get our husbands to clean it, then it wouldn't be a wasted life but a lifestyle choice right?

Not entirely true boon we can always get our husbands to clean it, then it wouldn't be a wasted life but a lifestyle choice right?

Funny that, I was learnt in High-school economics that for each person that migrates to a new country 7 jobs are created.

I also used to be annoyed by my sadly missed mother telling me as I threw my clothes on the floor and never cleaned aything

Do you think the Maid is going to do this

I thought it was rubbish, until you look at the domestic staff in the Khutan home......

Lifestyle, no way, that is what the maids are for. And they have a better job here than cleaning shopping centre floors etc.

What do I pay Mrs Khutan, up to her, some omnths she spends hardly anything, other months, she goes through it like water. January is a terrible month and we both spend alot. Normally Mrs Khutan (Member Name Giah) gets now (on the new deal) 60K Baht a month for herself and to cook with and pay a few nominal bills.

save your marriage, hire a maid. I think you have the right idea Khutan. I have no problem with stay at home wives, most women with children I know would love to stay at home all day with the kids & do house work, they can't afford it though as they live in the UK & their husbands don't earn enough to allow it (cost of living is so high), maybe they need new husbands

Oh but I do know a fair few women without kids who also don't work, they keep immaculate homes, hold dinner parties for their husbands clients & generally act as his personal assistant, thats the life they wanted & thats what they got with an allowance for the running of the household & to by clothes etc for the image. Up to them but they arent any better than the women who do or want to work outside the home IMO as the whole idea of equality for women is to be able to live exactly how you want without restriction or needing permission from another person (usually husband, father, brothers in some cultures)

As for the guys who come to LOS to look for that kind of stay at home wife, good for them, if they can find her & can afford to uphold their side of the promise (to provide money). Not many could afford it in their own countries so I hope they never have to relocate, as their wives might not be happy with having to also contribute to the household expenses after having another lifestyle & going into the relationship wanting that role as well.

I would hope in that situation that the man would see that they had broken that promise to their wife so would take on some of her promises within the household!

I think this version is much better

Don't despair Boo..... Rigger is why some of us smart, beautiful western women abandoned the likes of him for a life searching the world of alternatives......